Need a history lesson.
- Thread starter 23jumpboy
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and if not, then why? Was he considered a cheater or what. He is a UK grad and expressed interest in the position more than once and he was a proven winner. I have often wondered this exact same thing. Maybe they just didn't want to spend the money it would have taken to get him here. I have often wondered why they neverr even seemed to consider him but have never heard the answer.
If Japan hadn't bombed Pearl Harbor would America have gotten into WWII? In other words, who cares. THE PAST. Let's move on to the FUTURE
Story I heard over the years was he was considered when Claiborne was hired but he wanted TOTAL control over the football program and Hagan didn't want to give it to him. In other words, Schnellenberger would be the de facto Asst AD in charge of football. That's the way I recall the situation, don't know if that's completely true.
"Story I heard over the years was he was considered when Claiborne was hired but he wanted TOTAL control over the football program and Hagan didn't want to give it to him. In other words, Schnellenberger would be the de facto Asst AD in charge of football. That's the way I recall the situation, don't know if that's completely true."
That is the way I heard it, too.
That is the way I heard it, too.
The past UK athletic directors had many other agendas besides seeing the football program succeed at a high competitive level.
or on his watch....
On Tuesday Yahoo! Sports published a lengthy article detailing the
actions of former Hurricanes booster Nevin Shapiro, who says he provided
current and former Miami players with money, lavish parties,
prostitutes and, in one instance, an abortion.
Shapiro is currently serving a 20-year prison term for his role in a Ponzi scheme.
On Tuesday Yahoo! Sports published a lengthy article detailing the
actions of former Hurricanes booster Nevin Shapiro, who says he provided
current and former Miami players with money, lavish parties,
prostitutes and, in one instance, an abortion.
Shapiro is currently serving a 20-year prison term for his role in a Ponzi scheme.
or....
University of Oklahoma athletic compliance officer Larry Naifeh
interviewed players and athletic department personnel about Howard
Schnellenberger's personal habits in the days before the football
coach abruptly resigned, the Tulsa World reported yesterday.
The newspaper said two high-level sources, who spoke on condition
of anonymity, confirmed the interviews, which included questions
about the consumption of alcohol on university property and while
representing the school in official business.
http://articles.philly.com/1995-12-23/sports/25670536_1_eastern-michigan-football-howard-schnellenberger-donnie-duncan
University of Oklahoma athletic compliance officer Larry Naifeh
interviewed players and athletic department personnel about Howard
Schnellenberger's personal habits in the days before the football
coach abruptly resigned, the Tulsa World reported yesterday.
The newspaper said two high-level sources, who spoke on condition
of anonymity, confirmed the interviews, which included questions
about the consumption of alcohol on university property and while
representing the school in official business.
http://articles.philly.com/1995-12-23/sports/25670536_1_eastern-michigan-football-howard-schnellenberger-donnie-duncan
Who cares? Obviously the OP. The real question is how dumb do you have to be to click on a subject titled "Need a history lesson" when you are dead set on only discussion the FUTURE.
I agree that having a cool discussion on the topic might be fun. Before Howard, Miami was a "slightly above .500 program." Howard got them moving well enough for them to go out and hire Jimmy Johnson......the rest is history. So, could the hiring of Howard back then meant a different future for our Cats? Man I wish it would've happened.Originally posted by BigBluePhantom:
Who cares? Obviously the OP. The real question is how dumb do you have to be to click on a subject titled "Need a history lesson" when you are dead set on only discussion the FUTURE.
Howard Schnellenberger spoke with UK about the possibility of becoming head coach at least twice: after Fran Curci was fired and after Bill Curry was fired.
Mark Story: Howard Schnellenberger offers assessment of what has held back UK football program
From the article (note Schnellenberger's own characterization of why he didn't become the coach either time):
At least twice, Schnellenberger says he came "reasonably close" to testing that belief by becoming UK's head coach. In 1981, after Fran Curci was fired, Schnellenberger talked to Kentucky but chose to stay at Miami. UK ultimately hired Jerry Claiborne.
After Schnellenberger made an ill-fated decision to leave Louisville after the 1994 season for what became an unhappy one-year stint as Oklahoma head coach, he again talked with Kentucky in 1996 after Bill Curry was fired. UK instead chose Hal Mumme.
"Once, it was not the right time for me," Schnellenberger said of his flirtations with the UK job. "The other time, it wasn't the right time for the university."[/I]
This post was edited on 2/24 2:07 PM by childe
Mark Story: Howard Schnellenberger offers assessment of what has held back UK football program
From the article (note Schnellenberger's own characterization of why he didn't become the coach either time):
At least twice, Schnellenberger says he came "reasonably close" to testing that belief by becoming UK's head coach. In 1981, after Fran Curci was fired, Schnellenberger talked to Kentucky but chose to stay at Miami. UK ultimately hired Jerry Claiborne.
After Schnellenberger made an ill-fated decision to leave Louisville after the 1994 season for what became an unhappy one-year stint as Oklahoma head coach, he again talked with Kentucky in 1996 after Bill Curry was fired. UK instead chose Hal Mumme.
"Once, it was not the right time for me," Schnellenberger said of his flirtations with the UK job. "The other time, it wasn't the right time for the university."[/I]
This post was edited on 2/24 2:07 PM by childe
Sorry for the rant but this is a sore subject with me:
IMO, Football was never a priority at UK. The objective was to simply put a decent "competitive" team on the field...but the main goal was that it never detract from or distract fans from bball. Since I was a kid, there have been constant whispers about the indescretions of bball coaches, but when it comes to Football, the leash is always short.
IMO, Fran Curci didn't do anything at UK that other coaches in other sports hadn't done. Rumor around 1977 or so was that both the bball team and the Football program were being investigated...and that UK offered the Football program as the sacrificial lamb. Had UK decided to stick an associate AD over Curci and make sure he played within the rules, UK have have been the Miami of the SEC.
I will never forget Cawood's voice wavering when he conducted his last show with Curci....brought tears to my eyes...
Said all that to say this....the administration was never going to bring in a coach that had an air of anything other than squeeky cleanness....To use Cal as an example....IMO, Cal has NEVER done anything worthy of the rep he has with the media and others, but if a Cal like coach had applied for the Football coaching job, he never would have been considered. Howard and even Curci were that type. They went with Claiborne because the objective was as stated above. He was as clean as they come....but not dynamic. Should have kept Curci...if not, should have hired Howard.
IMO, Football was never a priority at UK. The objective was to simply put a decent "competitive" team on the field...but the main goal was that it never detract from or distract fans from bball. Since I was a kid, there have been constant whispers about the indescretions of bball coaches, but when it comes to Football, the leash is always short.
IMO, Fran Curci didn't do anything at UK that other coaches in other sports hadn't done. Rumor around 1977 or so was that both the bball team and the Football program were being investigated...and that UK offered the Football program as the sacrificial lamb. Had UK decided to stick an associate AD over Curci and make sure he played within the rules, UK have have been the Miami of the SEC.
I will never forget Cawood's voice wavering when he conducted his last show with Curci....brought tears to my eyes...
Said all that to say this....the administration was never going to bring in a coach that had an air of anything other than squeeky cleanness....To use Cal as an example....IMO, Cal has NEVER done anything worthy of the rep he has with the media and others, but if a Cal like coach had applied for the Football coaching job, he never would have been considered. Howard and even Curci were that type. They went with Claiborne because the objective was as stated above. He was as clean as they come....but not dynamic. Should have kept Curci...if not, should have hired Howard.
Schnellenberger was the offensive coordinator at Alabama for 3 of their national championships. The offensive coordinator for the 1972 Miami Dolphins, the only team to have a perfect season. Won the college football national championship as head coach of the Miami Hurricanes in 1983. He's the one who got the momentum started for the U. Before him, the University of Miami considered considered dropping football. Coaches before him only had marginal success there, and that includes Fran Curci and Lou Saban.
He took a Louisville team that was as bad if not worse than the 70's era Miami Hurricanes (they were EKU's play toy his first season there), and eventually takes them to a 10-1-1 team that thumps Alabama in the 1991 Fiesta Bowl. He's the one that put UofL football on the map (a price that we paid for not getting him after Curci was fired).
All the discipline and renegade issues that popped up at Miami and UofL came after his watch at those schools. Schnellenberger was a Bear Bryant player and assistant coach. He could be brutal with discipline if needed. In my opinion, later coaches at both schools were lax with discipline in an attempt to keep up with Schnellenberger's on the field success.
All he did was win wherever he went.
This post was edited on 2/25 9:08 AM by childe
He took a Louisville team that was as bad if not worse than the 70's era Miami Hurricanes (they were EKU's play toy his first season there), and eventually takes them to a 10-1-1 team that thumps Alabama in the 1991 Fiesta Bowl. He's the one that put UofL football on the map (a price that we paid for not getting him after Curci was fired).
All the discipline and renegade issues that popped up at Miami and UofL came after his watch at those schools. Schnellenberger was a Bear Bryant player and assistant coach. He could be brutal with discipline if needed. In my opinion, later coaches at both schools were lax with discipline in an attempt to keep up with Schnellenberger's on the field success.
All he did was win wherever he went.
This post was edited on 2/25 9:08 AM by childe
First off, the OP's question is a great question. The second poster gives some more insight and adds a second question that is also a legitimate question, it obviously would follow the first.
Secondly, if you don't believe in or ignore the past, you're an absolute idiot. The future begins with knowing the past, even if in this situation it is somewhat moot since we have a good coach in place. However, what if it happens again, do you think we will ever search for another coach?
Thirdly, I would like to know the hows and whys behind the scenes. I find it very interesting topic, mainly because he is proven, is a UK grad and showed supposed interest.
This was told to me by HSchnellenberger himself. said he would take a pay cut to coach at his alma mater. Another interesting thing is he said he wanted to also have a home in Louisville because his handicapped child could benefit from using a facility located there at the time. He was brash,. very self assured and confident he could turn it around. Said there was untold millions UK could capitalize on in Louisville business world that had never been tapped. Said "if I want to have a new PA man in CWS, I want to be able to do it immediately. Said the Bd and AD were against this. Said he had never even considered cheating. Said in Miami it was EASY to recruit south Fl. and top five players in northern states. Said "get them on Miami Beach in Dec-Jan and about a third of them commit on the spot. Players he recruited won the natl title year before. He was on retainer for the World Football League Washington DC entry at the time. Said that was not a problem. he was main speaker at Footballl convention in Louisville when we talked. Had very pretty and attention getting wife. Lots of mistakes made by UK administrators over the years, but it is clear that this was one of the biggest. He was the Calipari of his day/sport. If he not at UL, UL not a factor probably not even a football team today. Shortsighted Board and AD should all be erased from UK record books totally and formally,. Barney recently said that Keenland and Makers came to me and offered to help!!! Why didn't he go to them and ask for their help? Still millions in Louisville for UK totap if the right man in charge.
The real question is:: where do we stand now? Barney has never been one to plan well for specific moves. Bet he has never even looked at who would possibly be next Bball or Fball coach. Will simply wait on applications. Not the right move in my opinion. Still, he probably is best one UK has had for football. Lowering capacity a HUGE mistake. but still, has made solid moves with Stoops' pay and hopefully will continue to increase assistants pay and keep them happy. All things considered, the right men seem to be in place at this time and is up to AD to keep them happy. This will not happen overnight tho. Will take 4-6 years at least to get the fball program on solid footing in SEC and where we can realistically expect to have a good chance to win the East and the SEC championship. this means winning 5-8 SEC games at least a couple of times every 5 years. It all falls on having an aggressive administration and board. We can do it here. Just have to believe. Our goal cannot be to be a middle of the pack football program. We MUST have the GOLD STANDARD for football too. Maybe we are on that road!! GOBIGBLUESTOOPSTROOPS!!!!!
That is funny...My understanding is that on a handshake he agreed to take the job at KENTUCKY at the time Cliff Hagan was ad...He wanted totally autonomy over the program and CH said no and that was the end of that...THE BIGGEST mistake ever made in UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY SPORTS is not hiring Howard as the head football coach...PERIOD
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