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My thoughts on O-Line…

M

maysvilleky

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Aug 13, 2003
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I am very concerned that this o-line was not able to dominate today. It did not look like they could create gaps for Davis and allowed a lot of pressures on Leary. I was thinking they would be better this week but I didn’t see the improvement I was expecting.

I guess Ford has won the RT position? Has Bowles played at all?
 
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maysvilleky said:
I am very concerned that this o-line was not able to dominate today. It did not look like they could create gaps for Davis and allowed a lot of pressures on Leary. I was thinking they would be better this week but I didn’t see the improvement I was expecting.

I guess Ford has won the RT position? Has Bowles played at all?
Click to expand...
Flax was unavailable today due to injury. Bowles got some reps today.
 
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Starting Center jammed thumb. Per Coen they played several guys on the line today that had not played. I am guessing we self inflicted issues to keep the game close. When we wanted to actually run plays (call plays) we moved the ball fine. OLine is the least of the worries right now. Our backs are right now 1 hit and down. Davis maybe not but most of the rest are that way. Leary is a bigger concern, he misses badly right now. He has time to get it fixed but man the spiral is beautiful but to miss some today he missed is a worry. Our tight ends are non factor. For a room that we heard about all summer for what seems like the 11th year in a row and we do not utilize that position hardly at all. Our receivers not wanting to block is a major issue to have 5 line and maybe 2 TE blocking 11 men across the ball is impossible. Today there were several plays where we could have had 8 or 10 more yards but our receiver had already stopped blocking and was on the front row for the show.

Defense is a concern as well. 2 games against inferior teams and they dominate 3rd down. Horrid defense for a good portion of the game.
 
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JHB4UK said:
O line is a big contributors to problems! 1st drive, 3rd & 1, O line false start makes it 3rd & 6. Unable to convert, punt blocked. Start game found 7-0, directly from O line.
Click to expand...
O-Line is the biggest disappointment for me, to date....

I have faith in White to get it together.... not so much in Yenser
 
O-line was disappointing...until fourth quarter...then they did their job. No idea where they were before that.
 
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While I believe Yenser is in over his head, we are missing 2 second tier depth guys before the season ever begins in Hall and Chrisman. Add on the 2 starters being out yesterday, and we get the creation of problems with missed assignments and chemistry. I hope with some snaps yesterday for some of the younger guys, we have added a little more experience. Yes I am grasping at straws.
 
People need to understand our run game is now totally different. There is no more blowing people off the ball and running it down their throats. We don't do that, by design.

Two years ago when we started trying to switch to wide zone, I expressed my concern over completely shifting away from a style that made us very successful in OL recruiting and won us a lot of games. I know why they wanted to do it, I still think it was a mistake. Two years ago they realized their error and went back to inside zone and our offense immediately turned around.

The presnap penalties were inexcusable and killers. One thing about yesterday that wasn't the OL fault was the refusal to stick with the run especially with Davis. Davis split carries yesterday and the backs only got a carry or two here and there. Never got the chance to wear down their defense etc..

First half it seemed like the play calling was intent on trying to spread the ball around to get everyone touches. Force feeding guys gets us in trouble and is a reason Leary's completion rate is down. Second half we started running the offense and we looked fine. Letting Leary read the D resulted in some beautiful reads and throws.
 
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JHB4UK said:
O line is a big contributors to problems! 1st drive, 3rd & 1, O line false start makes it 3rd & 6. Unable to convert, punt blocked. Start game found 7-0, directly from O line.
Click to expand...
To my eye, our OL is better than a year ago but not as good as it should be. Is talent a problem? It shouldn't be. Everyone raved about getting Marques Cox and Tanner Bowles. Ford played for Southern Cal. Burton and Flax were 4 stars.

I see a couple of things going on. Horsey is missed. He is our best player on the OL. Too many penalties. False starts are drive killers. And we aren't giving Leary a clean pocket, which hurts his accuracy and route recognition.

On the positive side, Burton has been good and we are picking up blitzes well enough. For most part, run blocking has been better than a year ago.

Cut to the elephant in the room. Is Zach Yenser the right guy? If all these procedure penalties continue, that is on preparation. We are leaving points on the field because of penalties. Blown blocking assignments are on preparation. If Yenser cannot clean it up, that is on him. It is OL 101.
 
The pass pro is excellent so far. OL coach certainly isn't responsible for OL jumping off. That's literally something drilled into OL since grade school.

Won't know what we have in the run game until they consistently feed Davis especially in a four minute offense.
 
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While it was obvious the run game wasn't good enough early, it was very good in the fourth quarter. To suggest they sucked the whole game is just wrong.
 
I am concerned about the O-line too but some perspective is in order. Most on here rave about the 2021 OL so let's look at their early performance. Against an absolutely dreadful Louisiana Monroe they gave up four sacks. CRod ran for over 100 yards but at fewer yards per carry than Davis did against Ball State.

Against Chatanooga the 2021 team gave up another sack and UK only went for 3.4 yards per carry.
 
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tdcat said:
I am concerned about the O-line too but some perspective is in order. Most on here rave about the 2021 OL so let's look at their early performance. Against an absolutely dreadful Louisiana Monroe they gave up four sacks. CRod ran for over 100 yards but at fewer yards per carry than Davis did against Ball State.

Against Chatanooga the 2021 team gave up another sack and UK only went for 3.4 yards per carry.
Click to expand...
That should read 3.8 per carry. CRod went 13 carries for 46 yards against Chatanooga.
 
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bigblueinsanity said:
OL coach certainly isn't responsible for OL jumping off. That's literally something drilled into OL since grade school.
Click to expand...

Of course he is. That is game prep 101. I am not saying the OL coach is responsible for every individual idiosyncrasy or lapse in concentration. But basic duties, fundamentals, assignments, and prep are his responsibility. The OL's sets and reaction at the snap are as fundamental as it gets. If one guy jumps early, of course that is not Yenser's fault. But when it is a common repetitive penalty over the course of two games, that is on the prep and the failure to execute properly. When it happens repetitively on 3rd and short, that is failure to carry out the assignment.
 
tdcat said:
That should read 3.8 per carry. CRod went 13 carries for 46 yards against Chatanooga.
Click to expand...
For comparison, Davis went 12 carries for 52 yards. To date, the performance of the two OL has been very similar in the run game but the 2023 team has given up fewer sacks.

Not sure what it means but I bet the results of the comparison will surprise posters on this thread.
 
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EdgeHD said:
Of course he is. That is game prep 101. I am not saying the OL coach is responsible for every individual idiosyncrasy or lapse in concentration. But basic duties, fundamentals, assignments, and prep are his responsibility. The OL's sets and reaction at the snap are as fundamental as it gets. If one guy jumps early, of course that is not Yenser's fault. But when it is a common repetitive penalty over the course of two games, that is on the prep and the failure to execute properly. When it happens repetitively on 3rd and short, that is failure to carry out the assignment.
Click to expand...

The OL coach is most certainly not personally responsible for the OL player being unable to remember the snap count. It's the most basic aspect of their job as an OL. Just barely behind putting in pads and a helmet. If a player cannot get the snap count, that's on them.

If they keep playing guys who can't get the snap count, that starts to be on coaches. Iirc it's been pretty widespread so it isn't really one player.
 
bigblueinsanity said:
The OL coach is most certainly not personally responsible for the OL player being unable to remember the snap count. It's the most basic aspect of their job as an OL. Just barely behind putting in pads and a helmet. If a player cannot get the snap count, that's on them.

If they keep playing guys who can't get the snap count, that starts to be on coaches. Iirc it's been pretty widespread so it isn't really one player.
Click to expand...
It has been primarily two players and has been a problem since the 1st quarter against Ball State. This most certainly is a problem with prep and execution. The OL coach is responsible for the OL. If this was just one or two false starts, I would agree with you. But this is killing drives and leaving points on the field. I do not want to argue with you about it. Of course the performance of the OL is the OL coach's responsibility. All of us can see this is not just one or two forgotten snap counts.
 
maysvilleky said:
I am very concerned that this o-line was not able to dominate today. It did not look like they could create gaps for Davis and allowed a lot of pressures on Leary. I was thinking they would be better this week but I didn’t see the improvement I was expecting.

I guess Ford has won the RT position? Has Bowles played at all?
Click to expand...
Bowles was at RG for almost all the 4th Q while E. Cox moved to C when Burton got dinged.
 
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bigblueinsanity said:
People need to understand our run game is now totally different. There is no more blowing people off the ball and running it down their throats. We don't do that, by design.

Two years ago when we started trying to switch to wide zone, I expressed my concern over completely shifting away from a style that made us very successful in OL recruiting and won us a lot of games. I know why they wanted to do it, I still think it was a mistake. Two years ago they realized their error and went back to inside zone and our offense immediately turned around.

The presnap penalties were inexcusable and killers. One thing about yesterday that wasn't the OL fault was the refusal to stick with the run especially with Davis. Davis split carries yesterday and the backs only got a carry or two here and there. Never got the chance to wear down their defense etc..

First half it seemed like the play calling was intent on trying to spread the ball around to get everyone touches. Force feeding guys gets us in trouble and is a reason Leary's completion rate is down. Second half we started running the offense and we looked fine. Letting Leary read the D resulted in some beautiful reads and throws.
Click to expand...
👍👍👍👍
 
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pauled said:
The coaches are hell bent on playing Jager at center, I always thought the line would be better with Cox at center,
Click to expand...
I’m a big fan of E Cox and I think he would have developed nicely at center under Coen, but I kind of understand the logic.

After UK acquired M Cox, the logical move was Horsey back to LG. Then the options from left to right were

C..H..C..B/?..F/F
C..H..B..C..F/F

The coaching staff seems to have confidence in Burton, and there’s a chance he’s UKs only returning starting lineman next year. On paper, the second option looks like the best way to balance the center of the line, shore up the right, and build a bridge to 24-25. The first option would have required benching Burton or moving him to RG with uncertainty remaining at RT.

I read somewhere that Burton jammed a finger yesterday. If it’s worse than advertised or it if affects his grip, the line might get a shakeup anyway. All of this is just my uneducated opinion, WAG, jive talk.
 
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We will do more against Vandy. Read a comment that the coaches could have done more to win bigger but are wanting to build on the basics and depth before the Vandy game. I will take the optimistic view that Leary will get better and better the more he gets reps with his WR's in game action. Have two weeks to get a lot done so we don't blow the season against Vandy and FL.
 
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JHB4UK said:
The 2 most devastating penalties yesterday were by an offensive player from Vince Marrow's group
Click to expand...
True. That doesn't excuse the run of third down illegal procedure penalties. All were damaging to the offense and to momentum.

I think our guys were pressing after EKU blocked the punt and controlled the first quarter. Five transfers started for our offense yesterday. Everyone is still getting used to one another and it shows. The sooner we get The Horseman back, the better.

I have closely watched our team for a long time including the entire Stoops era. Although UK has won something like 21 of our last 22 nonconference games (or something like that), I can't ever remember our teams looking sleek or efficient in September nonconference games. They just don't. This isn't news. For better or worse, Stoops' teams tend to play inefficient football in the September nonconference games and then step on the pedal when the SEC season begins. I'm not criticizing it, and I'm not defending it either. If we are 5-0 after FL visits us, nobody will give a damn that EKU controlled the first quarter yesterday. For those who are saying we can't beat FL, I say those guys haven't learned a darn thing.
 
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maysvilleky said:
I am very concerned that this o-line was not able to dominate today. It did not look like they could create gaps for Davis and allowed a lot of pressures on Leary. I was thinking they would be better this week but I didn’t see the improvement I was expecting.

I guess Ford has won the RT position? Has Bowles played at all?
Click to expand...
Let's be honest...they look horrible and have since JS!!! I don't get the love of this staff for Burton. Nobody looks like an SEC caliber lineman. Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see us winning over a couple of conference games.
 
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blue cincy said:
Starting Center jammed thumb. Per Coen they played several guys on the line today that had not played. I am guessing we self inflicted issues to keep the game close. When we wanted to actually run plays (call plays) we moved the ball fine. OLine is the least of the worries right now. Our backs are right now 1 hit and down. Davis maybe not but most of the rest are that way. Leary is a bigger concern, he misses badly right now. He has time to get it fixed but man the spiral is beautiful but to miss some today he missed is a worry. Our tight ends are non factor. For a room that we heard about all summer for what seems like the 11th year in a row and we do not utilize that position hardly at all. Our receivers not wanting to block is a major issue to have 5 line and maybe 2 TE blocking 11 men across the ball is impossible. Today there were several plays where we could have had 8 or 10 more yards but our receiver had already stopped blocking and was on the front row for the show.

Defense is a concern as well. 2 games against inferior teams and they dominate 3rd down. Horrid defense for a good portion of the game.
Click to expand...
Will be glad when the HC & OC realize that there are no end zones on the sidelines.
 
M Cox graded out about the same as Flax the first game. The EKU game he had I believe two false starts that hurt us? Thought both Coxes would be the guys grading out the best this season. L Cox and Burton graded out worse than the other three in the first game. So nobody on the OL has played that well so far. Think Horsey graded out decent the first game.
 
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