KAT was ranked 5th overall by Rivals?

[The Great Wall]

I just went to look at the top 150 for the 2015 class and it defaulted me to the 2014 class. I just saw KAT was ranked 5th overall. Come on...

If I'm not mistaken, Wall was not #1 overall, at least on some sites, as well.

 

[UKcats1988]

Wall wasn't #1 on ESPN. Avery Bradley was I believe.

 

[eRUPPtion78]

Wall & Skal are the two Rivals overall #1s we've had in Cal's tenure...

Can't believe Anthony Davis was ranked BEHIND Austin Rivers, lol. Shabazz-Nerlens at 1 & 2 was pretty accurate, I think. Although Noel could turn into a beast. Selby at #1...yikes.

 

[The Great Wall]

Wall wasn't #1 on ESPN. Avery Bradley was I believe.

Nice.

 

[The Great Wall]

Wall & Skal are the two Rivals overall #1s we've had in Cal's tenure...

Can't believe Anthony Davis was ranked BEHIND Austin Rivers, lol. Shabazz-Nerlens at 1 & 2 was pretty accurate, I think. Although Noel could turn into a beast. Selby at #1...yikes.

Ya that is terrible.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Hindsight's 20/20

 

[jrpross]

Wall & Skal are the two Rivals overall #1s we've had in Cal's tenure...

Can't believe Anthony Davis was ranked BEHIND Austin Rivers, lol. Shabazz-Nerlens at 1 & 2 was pretty accurate, I think. Although Noel could turn into a beast. Selby at #1...yikes.

Yeah. Austin Rivers over Anthony Davis. Ha!

 

[Blueblood22]

Towns didn't do any, or maybe very little, AAU ball, which hurt his rankings.

 

[The Great Wall]

I don't know if this is their ranking in order but it does look like Avery Bradley was #1 by ESPN. If this is indeed their ranking, Wall was 5th in his class, Cousins was 4th!

They gave 10 players in the class the same rating of 98. Those 10 players were...

Bradley, Favors, Xavier Henry, Cousins, Wall, John Henson, Sidney (LOL), Jordan Hamilton, Kenny Boynton and Mason Plumlee.

Source: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/b...tname=&collegeid=&class=2009&position=&state=

 

[Big_Blue79]

I feel like ESPN tends to be an outlier at the top of the ranks every year. 2014 they had Turner 2 and Towns 9. 2013 pretty in line, but Embiid 6 was unusual. 2011 they had Rivers 1, although to be fair everyone else had him 2 or 3.

Towns had some concerns coming into the year - hangs out on the perimeter and gets bodied around easily. He addressed those concerns this year, hence his status at the near certain #1 pick. Looking at RSCI, VC had him 12, ESPN 9, while PrepStars and 247Sports had him 2.

 

[gossie21]

ESPN was really bad back in 2010. I think around 2011 or 2012 they hired Dave Telep and things got better. Now I respect their rankings... and UK guys tend to do a little better there than some of the other places.

As for Towns. He played some AAU but not a whole lot, and he didn't look very impressive when he matched up against other centers. But he spent the bulk of his summer playing on the DR team, with and against NBA players. So I think that helped him figure things out and prepare for UK. Also, you can't count out the experience of playing at UK and for Calipari.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Wall wasn't #1 on ESPN. Avery Bradley was I believe.

Worse, Xavier Henry was ranked #1 on ESPN that year.

 

[UKcats1988]

Worse, Xavier Henry was ranked #1 on ESPN that year.

It was

1. Bradley
2. Favors
3. Henry
4. Cousins
5. Wall

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2009/order/true

 

[Supafuzz75]

Towns stayed around 8-12 most of the year then climbed up a little at the end..

 

[gossie21]

Worse, Xavier Henry was ranked #1 on ESPN that year.

Henry was ranked #1 at the time of the all-star games, but he dropped in the final rankings.

 

[Smashcat]

I just went to look at the top 150 for the 2015 class and it defaulted me to the 2014 class. I just saw KAT was ranked 5th overall. Come on...

If I'm not mistaken, Wall was not #1 overall, at least on some sites, as well.

This is not an exact science. Unless you have a Lebron caliber player there is usually not much difference between the players in the top five or even the top 10, unless the class is weak.

 

[Hoskins21]

Jerry Meyer had some questionable ratings when he worked for rivals. Right now, for 247, he has Simmons ranked No. 1 over Labissiere. I think Skal will have the better career.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Jerry Meyer had some questionable ratings when he worked for rivals. Right now, for 247, he has Simmons ranked No. 1 over Labissiere. I think Skal will have the better career.

ESPN has SImmons at #1 as well. It's very difficult to tell at this point. People will look back and say "How could anyone rank player X above player Y" but it's not that easy. I'm a terrific Monday morning quarterback

 

[brianpoe]

ESPN had Towns 9TH

In 2010 having Wall 5th was dumb but Bledsoe wan't even in their top 100 !!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Great Wall]

Right I get that it isn't an exact science. I know that guys who are given 5 stars don't pan out, just like some 3 star guys turn out to be all pros. But I use Towns and Wall as examples, because when they were still in high school they were being floated around as the 1st overall pick in the draft.

Simmons being #1 I don't have a problem with and if he doesn't pan out long-term I won't fault the recruiting sites for ranking him where they have.

 

[fuzz77]

What's the point of this thread? Ranking players as of today will never equal what those players will be ranked 1,2 or 10 years from now. Kids develop at different rates. Some are as good as they will ever get in high school and or college. If it was an exact science then first round draft picks would always be better than second round picks...5 star kids would always be better than 4 star and 3 star kids. Chad Pennington, Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman, Tee Martin, Marc Bulger and Spergon Wynn would have all been better quarterbacks than Tom Brady as they were all rated higher and selected ahead of him.

It's easy to criticize rankings years down the road.

 

[Cats192]

1. John Wall was #1 by Rivals.. IIRC he was #1 on Scout. I feel like ESPN thinks they're more important than they are with their own little recruiting "service"

2. Towns wasn't the best player coming out of high school. We all saw him improve from really good prospect to almost unstoppable. He went from a finesse kid that flashed the occasional 3 to a grown @$$ man that you didn't want to see on the block.

 

[2Dope15]

I think Towns ended up the National Gatorade Player of the Year for High School. Pretty sure but I could be wrong.

 

[miracle7s]

There is some credence to the guys that come to UK would all be lottery picks no matter where they went to school, however this is the year for Cal to say hi haters. Towns developed more than anyone could imagine. He came into a UK a soft face up euro style big, and left a dominant center with post moves that get buckets and an enforcer on the defensive end. Cal did that for him. Same with Booker, he doesn't sniff the lottery if he doesn't play for Cal and UK. I know Cal says he doesn't do negative recruiting but after this year he better tell Harry Giles you see how Jahill went from surefire #1 to #3 hey Jayson Tatum, Justice Winslow #10? That what you want? And so on down the line.

 

[BlueBlood66]

There is some credence to the guys that come to UK would all be lottery picks no matter where they went to school, however this is the year for Cal to say hi haters. Towns developed more than anyone could imagine. He came into a UK a soft face up euro style big, and left a dominant center with post moves that get buckets and an enforcer on the defensive end. Cal did that for him. Same with Booker, he doesn't sniff the lottery if he doesn't play for Cal and UK. I know Cal says he doesn't do negative recruiting but after this year he better tell Harry Giles you see how Jahill went from surefire #1 to #3 hey Jayson Tatum, Justice Winslow #10? That what you want? And so on down the line.

Booker and WCS are great examples of what UK can do for a recruit. Winslow was a steal at #10 and he was RSCI #13 last year so being drafted #10 is pretty good. There's counter points as well. Look at the twins and Dakari, they were all top 10 players coming out of high school.

College rankings and NBA draft potential have some pretty high variance.

 

[Bkocats]

Hindsight's 20/20

always is.

 

[miracle7s]

Booker and WCS are great examples of what UK can do for a recruit. Winslow was a steal at #10 and he was RSCI #13 last year so being drafted #10 is pretty good. There's counter points as well. Look at the twins and Dakari, they were all top 10 players coming out of high school.

College rankings and NBA draft potential have some pretty high variance.

I agree that there is a flip side to things but as a basketball guy you have to see within the first of month of the season if the rankings match the pro potential or if it was a misguided. Watching the Twins and Dakari both you had to instantly know that they weren't ever going to be great NBA players and mock drafts after they actually started playing in college reflected that too. That's the problem with rankings I guess, that some guys rank players based on high school performance, some on college potential, and some on long term professional potential. Anyone ranking Towns out the top 5 clearly wasn't ever ranking on pro potential. Another weird example is Poythress watching him in high school I though man this guy looks pretty good but a top 5-10 player in the rankings and a top 5-10 pick in the draft no way, and then he has the one outlier game against Duke and people are saying he could be the #1 pick and then he comes back to earth and plays like the Poythress I thought he'd be.

It's the one thing I kind of disagree with Cal on philosophy wise. I am 100% behind the players leaving as soon as they can, in fact I think they should be able to come straight out of high school if they really want too. However in terms of really looking out for these kids and their future(aka how they earn a living) is it better to leave when you have eligibility left to go in the 2nd round or undrafted? Would it be more valuable to your future earning if your not going to be a long term NBA player to stay try and win a title do something special, not even necessarily to graduate(although I hope they would) but to just really endear themselves and wrap up being able to have 6 figure jobs guaranteed for the rest of lives in the state of Kentucky just for being who they are? Just my 2 cents though

 

[bssparks]

I agree that there is a flip side to things but as a basketball guy you have to see within the first of month of the season if the rankings match the pro potential or if it was a misguided. Watching the Twins and Dakari both you had to instantly know that they weren't ever going to be great NBA players and mock drafts after they actually started playing in college reflected that too. That's the problem with rankings I guess, that some guys rank players based on high school performance, some on college potential, and some on long term professional potential. Anyone ranking Towns out the top 5 clearly wasn't ever ranking on pro potential. Another weird example is Poythress watching him in high school I though man this guy looks pretty good but a top 5-10 player in the rankings and a top 5-10 pick in the draft no way, and then he has the one outlier game against Duke and people are saying he could be the #1 pick and then he comes back to earth and plays like the Poythress I thought he'd be.

It's the one thing I kind of disagree with Cal on philosophy wise. I am 100% behind the players leaving as soon as they can, in fact I think they should be able to come straight out of high school if they really want too. However in terms of really looking out for these kids and their future(aka how they earn a living) is it better to leave when you have eligibility left to go in the 2nd round or undrafted? Would it be more valuable to your future earning if your not going to be a long term NBA player to stay try and win a title do something special, not even necessarily to graduate(although I hope they would) but to just really endear themselves and wrap up being able to have 6 figure jobs guaranteed for the rest of lives in the state of Kentucky just for being who they are? Just my 2 cents though

 

[bssparks]

I am pretty sure Andrew was ranked Number 1 in his class by some services as well especially when he was a sophomore and junior. The fact is that he was bigger and stronger than everyone in high school and others caught up to him just like Towns caught up to Alexander and Okafor. Everyone matures at different speeds. What I think is amazing is that Cal has basically struck gold on Camby, Davis and Towns which is amazing that he sees the potential in these guys before they mature.

 

[miracle7s]

bsparks, you hit the nail right on the head. that's exactly it. The thing that should scare you to death about recruiting is when you get a guy that dominated the high school and aau circuit because he was just bigger and stronger than than everyone else he was playing. The exceptions being big men who will continue to be the biggest and strongest guys but also have athleticism(Boogie types). We have been super lucky because there are 5-10 players a year rated in the top 25 that fall into that category but we have only been hit with a few. Basically every guy that has struggled at UK somewhat and then struggled with draft stock in the NBA were those people. Twins, Dakari, Poythress, Teague, and Lamb(to an extent). Every year though you can see the example's though, just to name a few Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, Selby, CJ Leslie, James MCadoo, Adonis Thomas, LeBryan Nash, Shabazz, Grant Jerret, Kaleb Tarczweksi, and Kyle Anderson are recent guys that come to mind that fit the mold.

 

[bssparks]

bsparks, you hit the nail right on the head. that's exactly it. The thing that should scare you to death about recruiting is when you get a guy that dominated the high school and aau circuit because he was just bigger and stronger than than everyone else he was playing. The exceptions being big men who will continue to be the biggest and strongest guys but also have athleticism(Boogie types). We have been super lucky because there are 5-10 players a year rated in the top 25 that fall into that category but we have only been hit with a few. Basically every guy that has struggled at UK somewhat and then struggled with draft stock in the NBA were those people. Twins, Dakari, Poythress, Teague, and Lamb(to an extent). Every year though you can see the example's though, just to name a few Harrison Barnes, Jared Sullinger, Selby, CJ Leslie, James MCadoo, Adonis Thomas, LeBryan Nash, Shabazz, Grant Jerret, Kaleb Tarczweksi, and Kyle Anderson are recent guys that come to mind that fit the mold.

 

[kornucopia]

Towns was #1 in the 2015 class before reclassifying and didn't get nearly as much love when he was put into the 2014 rankings.

 

[stenchymouse]

Seems like Keith Bogans was a very strong and mature H.S.kid who dropped a little bit as other's caught up to him physically?...

 

[bssparks]

Seems like Keith Bogans was a very strong and mature H.S.kid who dropped a little bit as other's caught up to him physically?...

Yes, him and Marvin Stone both.

 

[SaguaroCat]

I'm surprised he was ranked as high as five. What with the way he walked down the court. It's a miracle Cal could see any talent hidden inside him at all.

 

[UKDUNK]

I get that ranking recruits is not an exact science, but I think sometimes these "experts" overthink things. For instance, Jaylen Brown did not look elite in ANY of the post season games, but stayed in everyone's top 5 purely based off of reputation and athleticism. Simmons, Ingram, Skal, Bacon, Murray, Diallo, Zimmerman, Briscoe, Blackney and Ivan Rabb all looked WAY better than Brown.

 

[Aike]

Hindsight is 20/20 but Avery Bradley over Wall and Rivers over AD were dumb at the time.