Justin Rowland Opinion: Can UK let Barker try his hand?
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Enjoyable read, with lots of insight and questions, thanks. But most of it is, for good reason, speculation. And, as pointed out by Roland, there are a ton of factors we know very little about.
I think the conclusion is we have to depend on the actions of the people that know the most, and that is the coaches. I think Towles (and the team) will rebound this week, Will we win? Hard to say, lots of unknowns, how good is Missouri and how good will our whole team play, like he said, it isn't just about Towles.
I think the conclusion is we have to depend on the actions of the people that know the most, and that is the coaches. I think Towles (and the team) will rebound this week, Will we win? Hard to say, lots of unknowns, how good is Missouri and how good will our whole team play, like he said, it isn't just about Towles.
The fact is that this is something you cannot go back from. The moment Patrick struggles and they insert Drew then regardless of how Drew performs you are sort of stuck with him for better or worse. Patrick has won SEC games and put together a GREAT first half against USC, so we know it is there. I am hoping this week against Mizzo he can put it together and quieten the mutiny of some fans and we can get back to making a bowl game. Another thread said it best:
Beat Mizzo and we are at 4 wins before the off week. That leaves winnable games against Charolette, Vandy and Louisville as well as could be competitive games against UT, Mississippi State and IMO Auburn. Geaorgia is the only one I think that could get ugly and us not have much of a prayer in.
Beat Mizzo and a 7-8 win regular season is still probable.
What more did we expect from this season? From what I saw predicted virtually no one predicted us to go 3-0 against USC, UF and Mizzo. The ones who did were called unrealistic, so why are so many complaining now?
Beat Mizzo and we are at 4 wins before the off week. That leaves winnable games against Charolette, Vandy and Louisville as well as could be competitive games against UT, Mississippi State and IMO Auburn. Geaorgia is the only one I think that could get ugly and us not have much of a prayer in.
Beat Mizzo and a 7-8 win regular season is still probable.
What more did we expect from this season? From what I saw predicted virtually no one predicted us to go 3-0 against USC, UF and Mizzo. The ones who did were called unrealistic, so why are so many complaining now?
Not true at all. You can go back to Towles as often as you want. A QB change is not permanent. In fact if it were me I'd make it a plan to start Barker and give him the first quarter next week. If he does better then he stays in. If not then we go back to Towles.
Howard Schnellenberger had a unique way of handeling a similar situation. Before the game he announced that the starting QB would play the first two series, and then the back up would play the third series, and so on. This gave the back up some real game experience, and gave the coaches a chance to evaluate him. But there was no pressure on the starter, that his performance was unsatisfactory.
I wish we would have done this in the first two games.
I wish we would have done this in the first two games.
It's not a fact and it's not even the truth . You can come back with Towles whenever you want . And maybe the three teams you mentioned have been struggling against inferior teams . I guess Towles gets a pass because of that . Lol
It is a bad situation if you have to pull a starter because you've lost confidence and then go back and say, "You know what? You sucked, but the other guy sucked worse, so you get your job back by default." Especially when Barker is the future of our program...you would have to stick with him and move on from Towles.
WITH THAT SAID! Towles lost one freaking game that we were the underdog in anyways. Everyone needs to give it a rest. Everyone wanted miracle worker Morgan Newton also until we saw what he could really do. Barker will be good IMO, but for right now Patrick Towles gives us a chance to win when he is having a good day. Needs to cut down on inconsistency, but he is a good SEC QB.
Yeah, every team in the country lets one qb take every snap, never let the backup in. Worry about the starters self confidence but let the backup wonder just how freaking bad it has to get before he gets to take a snap.
Surely you realize I'm not complaining because we lost a game . Towles is in his FOURTH year in the program. He has started FIFTEEN games. In the off seasons he has had the best coaching that money can buy. The same quarterback guru that taught Andrew Luck . Despite all of this he has shown zero improvement. In fact he has regressed . I think he's a good kid that tries hard , but I just think he has topped out .
Wtf is UPS smoking?!you can't take the QB out after you put him in?
This isn't peewee. Get a clue.
This isn't peewee. Get a clue.
The way I look at it, Patrick has been in the program four years now and has shown little improvement over that time. I would much rather have a Drew Barker play who is in his second year and has at least two more years of eligibility. I could live with some of the mistakes that Towles continues to make if it was a RS FR. Not a RS JR.
I have seen and been a part of this arguement more than once. When David Green was our qb, many wanted DJ Shockley as qb, DJ got 2 series a game every game for 3 years. Green left UGA as the alltime winningest qb in NCAA history at that time, Shockley won and SEC championship his sr year. Then we had lots of fans wanting Joe Cox over Matthew Stafford, some people are just not smart. Then it was Hutson Mason's crowd wanting him over Aaron Murray. Right now we have fans wanting Blake Ramsey to be our qb over Lambert. But in the first 3 cases, the coaches knew who should be playing, pretty good chance they have this year's correct too. UK has good coaches too, pretty good bet they have a good idea who should be playing.
I think something you are forgetting, coaches are ultra competitive, they are going to put who they feel gives them the best chance to win because they want to win and they want to stay employed.
^I agree. The coaches know more about football than I do. The coaches know more about the differences between Towles and Barker than I do. The coaches know more about the offense than I do. And they continually pick Towles to play. Dawson continues to pick Towles.....just as Brown did prior.
Logic tells me that they have less faith in Barker than Towles to win now.
Logic tells me that they have less faith in Barker than Towles to win now.
He will play in the EKU game! (and they will be trying to demolish him because of what happened last summer) Let's see how he fares in that game before we start writing foolish articles after 3 games! The coaches have seen them every day practice and play and also how the team responds to a particular leader! Very unnecessary article at this EARLY stage!
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How many times has the other teams' backup qb's come in to the game and burned us? Every other team seems to have quality backups. We can't even see how good ours is for a series or two a game when Towles is struggling. If they bring Barker in and he looks worse then fine at least we tried something different. Then they can go right back to Towles. Plus how much harder is the starter going to work to improve if he knows he isn't coming out regardless of how well he plays? It would also make it harder on the defense having to game plan for Barker as well.
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anon_013cn8yrfncx2
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Didn't read the article. It was mentioned in another of the other threads on this topic. IF Towles and the rest of the team
are capable of beating Mizzou and ultimately 6 games total then he should be kept at QB. I would definitely not change at this point.
To me, Patrick would have to be the obvious reason for a Mizzou loss to make a change. I'm not a FB expert but a general
observation is that PT is not an accurate passer and never will be (that's assuming he's worked as hard as he can on this already).
The coaches have decided to live with that to this point and I don't think they're going to change as long as a bowl season is still
possible.
are capable of beating Mizzou and ultimately 6 games total then he should be kept at QB. I would definitely not change at this point.
To me, Patrick would have to be the obvious reason for a Mizzou loss to make a change. I'm not a FB expert but a general
observation is that PT is not an accurate passer and never will be (that's assuming he's worked as hard as he can on this already).
The coaches have decided to live with that to this point and I don't think they're going to change as long as a bowl season is still
possible.
This brings up a good point.
-Right now, we are 2-1 with some games coming up that are winnable. If we were 1-2 or 0-3 and really struggling, then I can see just throwing spaghetti to the wall to see what sticks, but we're not.
-Also, if the QB was the only position on offense that was doing poorly then I would definitely call for a switch, but it's not. It is highly, highly unlikely that a freshman QB who has never played in a game is going to come off the bench and make the WR's run better routes, have better hands, make the o-line block better, etc.
I agree that is we win 2 of the next 3 games (or better) that it is unlikely that the staff will switch.
That's a fair question. But how many times has the game been out of hand to allow the coaches a chance to that? Every game has ended up close, while Towles hasn't had an AA type season, he has moved the ball, he has led the team to wins. Does Barker deserve to play in a tight game, I don't know, I don't know whats going on outside of what is being said here. Does he know the offense well enough to play? I think everyone here agrees Stoops is trying to win, he is playing who he feels gives him the best chance to win. Said this many times, when a team is struggling on offense, the backup qb is always the most popular guy on the team.
Gotta be cautious with broad statements. What were the back-up QB's and what was the situation? For example: Bolin for UL last yr. He was behind a veteran o-line that was playing pretty well at that time. He was throwing to several big time veteran WR's....one of which was a surefire 1st rd NFL draft pick. And it wasn't like our defense had the ability to scare nearly anyone last yr.
I do agree that if the staff did decide to try Barker that they could decide to go back. But when are you going to try him?
-Missou - If it's a close game you certainly don't want the ball in the hands of a freshman who hasn't played before. If Missou is crushing us, then it likely means that more than just the QB is breaking down.....Are you wanting to put Barker in behind a massively struggling o-line, throwing to struggling WR's? If we are crushing them, then Towles is likely playing well, so is there a need to bring Barker in?
-EKU - This is probably the best scenario since you can most likely whether any mistakes that Barker may make during the game. But potentially could lead to controversy. And much of Barker's EKU play time could depend how Towles does with Missou.
This is where I generally stand:
"They [coaches] watch the starters and the backups during practice. They know what they're capable of and what they're not able to do. "
"They [coaches] watch the starters and the backups during practice. They know what they're capable of and what they're not able to do. "
I think it's reasonable to give Barker a series or two in the first quarter IF Towles has a 3 and out in his first series. Make it clear before the game to both QBs that Barker gets one, maybe two series early. If Towles looks sharp, then Barker waits to play until the next game or at the end of the Missouri game if it's a blowout by either team.
The risk is a quarterback controversy erupts because Barker makes the most of his chances and scores two touchdowns in two series. If this happens under mop up conditions, Barker's effort should be heavily discounted. If not, it's sure to stir up some discontent if/when the coaches switch back to Towles.
If Towles went down with an injury right now, his backup has ZERO game experience. Whether or not Towles keeps his starting job, it doesn't hurt to give your backup some snaps so he can get the game jitters out of his system in a controlled environment rather than an emergency insertion.
The risk is a quarterback controversy erupts because Barker makes the most of his chances and scores two touchdowns in two series. If this happens under mop up conditions, Barker's effort should be heavily discounted. If not, it's sure to stir up some discontent if/when the coaches switch back to Towles.
If Towles went down with an injury right now, his backup has ZERO game experience. Whether or not Towles keeps his starting job, it doesn't hurt to give your backup some snaps so he can get the game jitters out of his system in a controlled environment rather than an emergency insertion.
Also, I think the coaches are primarily concerned about bringing better players to Lexington. I have to think at this point that they know Towles isn't the greatest quarterback ever, but gives the team the best chance to reach a bowl game THIS YEAR. I think they feel like a bowl game is critical to keeping the recruiting momentum, so they are using the personnel that will get them to 6 or 7 wins NOW even if Barker will be a better QB before his career is over.
Grumpyolddog , I think you are a good poster and respect your opinion. That said, have you looked at Patrick Towles stat line over his last 9 games ?
I know they are great, but for whatever reasons and I don't know what they are the UK staff feels he gives them the best chance to get to a bowl. I promise you this very argument goes on with other fanbases. USC and AU are right now. I am not saying a change isn't the answer, it could very well be the key to the offense. All I am saying is at this time and the first 3 games UK's coaching staff felt Towles gave them the best chance to win. I don't know Barker, I don't know his strengths or weaknesses. Does he know the playbook, will the team follow him and play hard for him? All of those are questions I don't know the answer to.
I like Towles, and believe he has all the tools to be a great QB. What he lacks is the mental fortitude. There are many players who play great in practice, but when the lights are on, they fold. Who knows what Barker will do in that situation. But, I would be okay with the staff finding out if Towles has a poor showing in the Mizzou game.
Yeah, Andrew Luck looked real good with the Jets front seven in HIS face last night. Florida was in our backfield all night. Give it a rest.
Not quite but the point is still valid. Howard gave his #2 guy a series or two in the first half, usually second quarter. He believed that a few snaps when the game was still on the line was better experience than a bunch of snaps in garbage or mop up time. IMO, more coaches should follow this approach but 95% of them are "afraid" to tamper with the QB.
Regardless of who is best, Barker is one unlucky play away from being the starter. Get him some 1st half snaps. Just tell the QBs that Barker is going to play a series or two in the first half for experience, not an "audition". Regardless of score, I would put him in about mid-way in the second quarter with a between the 20s drive start. That would give him 1, maybe 2 opportunities. Go back to Towles in the second half.
Peace
They can still go back even if they put Barker in the second half of the game. Who says they can't? Give the kid a chance. They sure as hell have given Towles a ton of chances. As some posters have said above, he has regressed and if you can't see that then you're blind. He has made some good throws, but a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then. And for those of you who say "He's 2-1 as the starter right now!", what has he done that has really won us the games? He played well in the first half of the ULL game and stunk it up in the second half. Played decent against SC in the first half and regressed in the second. Thank God for Boom and co.
I honestly don't believe the staff has a ton of confidence in Patrick either, especially after the Florida game. Even being down 2 touchdowns, they were hesitant to throw the ball until the last 1-2 possessions. I'm sure I sound like a Towles hater, but I'm just stating the facts. I hope he gets it together and helps us win some more ballgames, but if he doesn't, I say give Barker a shot. Auburn just benched their first string this week after claiming he was the next Cam Newton. So #WhyNot?
I honestly don't believe the staff has a ton of confidence in Patrick either, especially after the Florida game. Even being down 2 touchdowns, they were hesitant to throw the ball until the last 1-2 possessions. I'm sure I sound like a Towles hater, but I'm just stating the facts. I hope he gets it together and helps us win some more ballgames, but if he doesn't, I say give Barker a shot. Auburn just benched their first string this week after claiming he was the next Cam Newton. So #WhyNot?
Saturday's game will determine Towles fate. If we win and he plays well, he will stay as starter. If he plays poorly and we lose, it should be Barker going forward.
Only in Kentucky do we complain about a QB coming off a game where our athletic, 6-foot-5, 250-pound QB (whose about as hard to bring down as Ben Roethlisberger) is sacked an ungodly SIX times.
After a couple decades of having some of the best passing attacks in SEC history (yet consistently having some of the worst teams in the SEC) if we haven't figured out that games in this league are won/lost in the trenches, then I don't know what to tell some of you.
Joe Montana would've struggled to complete 8 passes when he's getting sacked almost two times every single quarter and has a defensive end in his face LITERALLY as soon as he catches the snap.
I know one thing: it's a good thing we have a big QB that can escape some pressure, because if any QB not named Towles or Roethlisberger were playing Sat night, he would've been sacked 10-12 times and likely left the game with a career-ending injury.
Is Towles perfect or great? No. Far from it. But he's good enough to win games when he's not getting sacked 10 times a game with constant pressure in his face (minus maybe 3 or 4 plays out of the game in which we all expect to be perfect passes). If some of you still can't figure out what the REAL problem is after a performance where our QB was sacked 6 times, then I'd have to seriously question your knowledge of what it takes to consistently win games in this league.
Do you think it's a coincidence that Alabama and LSU are crushing (most) teams yet they don't rely on an All-American QB to do so? How many times do you see Alabama and LSU with a QB even close to being as good as Tim Couch, Andre Woodson or Jared Lorenzen? If games were won in this league based on how good your QB is we'd be one of the best teams in the nation over the past couple of decades.
When are we going to learn that exciting doesn't equal success? When are we going to learn that our offensive success starts and finishes with the offensive line? If we haven't figured that out after last Saturday's game, then I don't think we ever will.
What will it take? 10 sacks in a game? 15 sacks? 20-30 sacks? A sack on every single snap? I'm being serious. I thought six might do the trick (considering that it's about the most ungodly sack total I've seen in my lifetime), but apparently it's not.
The sad thing is that I honestly think that our QB could be sacked 50 times in a game but somehow some way we'd still find a way to blame it on the QB.
It might be hard to understand if you've never watched much football, but it's a little bit hard for a QB to be sacked or hurried on 10 straight plays, and then expect the 11th play where he finally has a little time to be anything resembling a good pass. I mean come on. That's just not being realistic. If you had a car wreck 10 days in a row, how do you think you'd drive on the eleventh day? Come on.
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^Good post jnewc.
Get ready for the "But it's Towles fault b/c he's holding on the ball too long and doesn't have any pocket awareness" posts.
Get ready for the "But it's Towles fault b/c he's holding on the ball too long and doesn't have any pocket awareness" posts.
Which would be partly true . That said, time to put this behind us, despite my doubts there will no bigger Patrick Towles fan than me Saturday. RELAX, just play , trust your talent, and let the chips fall where they may.
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