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Just how much did we miss Poythress (interesting stat...)

wcc31

wcc31

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Mar 18, 2002
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Here are Luke Winn's CBB pre-preseason power rankings.

Winn is a metrics geek and bases his rankings almost entirely on that. He has UK #2 behind UNC. Anyway, in his analysis of UK he writes this:

When I charted every defensive possession of the Wildcats' first 20 games for an SImagazine project, opponents Poythress was guarding shot a team-low 12.8%. (Not a typo: 12.8%. Poythress just did not give up baskets.)

Man, it would've been nice to have that dude against Connaghton and Dekker.
 
it can't really be understated, in regards to losing in the final four, how much we missed him. we were so deep that we still won near 30 in a row without him, yet we all knew it wasn't the same as the first ten games. i'd say he's the biggest reason why. the man started for a reason. can't wait to see him back on the floor this year.
 
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wcc31 said:
Here are Luke Winn's CBB pre-preseason power rankings.

Winn is a metrics geek and bases his rankings almost entirely on that. He has UK #2 behind UNC. Anyway, in his analysis of UK he writes this:

When I charted every defensive possession of the Wildcats' first 20 games for an SImagazine project, opponents Poythress was guarding shot a team-low 12.8%. (Not a typo: 12.8%. Poythress just did not give up baskets.)

Man, it would've been nice to have that dude against Connaghton and Dekker.
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At some point we knew we'd miss him... but with the success we were having (no one was beating us) it kind'a got lost...
When it got down to splitting hairs and some teams presented problems (ND/UW) maybe the stat you bring to the thread helps explain?
All I know is that in that there were a few games during the season where opposing teams got to the rim much better than UK and that was supposed to be our forte....
 
UK lost to Wisconsin because they stopped putting the ball in the basket the last 5 minutes, aka due to offense. Wisconsin had 58 points with 2 minutes left. That is damn good D against one of the best offenses on paper ever. So to conclude, you can say whatever you want, but UK still should have pulled away and won that game. The terrible officiating sucked as well.
 
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I feel a little bad for Poy. He is being built up so much, and the result of his absence is being so overblown, that it is building fans expectations to an unreasonably high level for this coming season.
Poy is a solid player, not great, not close to great.
But he can be a valuable piece & contributor & should be appreciated for that.
 
UKWildcats#8 said:
UK lost to Wisconsin because they stopped putting the ball in the basket the last 5 minutes, aka due to offense. Wisconsin had 58 points with 2 minutes left. That is damn good D against one of the best offenses on paper ever. So to conclude, you can say whatever you want, but UK still should have pulled away and won that game. The terrible officiating sucked as well.
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And because we got spanked on the glass. Poythress would have helped there as well.
 
3rex said:
I feel a little bad for Poy. He is being built up so much, and the result of his absence is being so overblown, that it is building fans expectations to an unreasonably high level for this coming season.
Poy is a solid player, not great, not close to great.
But he can be a valuable piece & contributor & should be appreciated for that.
Click to expand...

This is such a BS post, but what else is new? Nobody's expecting the guy to be an AA, but there's no reason not to expect big things from a talented senior.
 
3rex said:
I feel a little bad for Poy. He is being built up so much, and the result of his absence is being so overblown, that it is building fans expectations to an unreasonably high level for this coming season.
Poy is a solid player, not great, not close to great.
But he can be a valuable piece & contributor & should be appreciated for that.
Click to expand...

If he's a valuable piece (and the metrics suggest he was so on defense), then how is his absence being overblown?
 
He is a role type player coming off a major injury.

We should have won the game without him & his absence is being used by some as an excuse.
Let me pose this question. If he were going to play a significant role in a win versus Wisconsin, he would've by definition played significant minutes. So whose minutes would you have taken away in that game?
 
As he showed in the Bahamas he is a different player playing the four. With two PGs together next year he can work the baseline and do what he does best..one or two power dribbles and attack the basket.
Defensively, he can guard anyone. As shown in the combine stuff his measurables are on the freak level.
 
As someone alluded to earlier in the thread, Wisconsin had 58 points with 2 minutes to go. Defense wasn't an issue.
If we think Poy would've likely out up 18-20 points, then maybe that would've helped.
 
We had a great defense sans-Poythess, we had a historically great defense with him. Pisses me off that significant injuries have kept the team from its potential 3 straight years.
 
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3rex said:
He is a role type player coming off a major injury.

We should have won the game without him & his absence is being used by some as an excuse.
Let me pose this question. If he were going to play a significant role in a win versus Wisconsin, he would've by definition played significant minutes. So whose minutes would you have taken away in that game?
Click to expand...

Anyone who's not a negative prick and who actually watched the 2014 NCAA run would know how valuable Poythress would have been last year. Dude was HUGE is just about every game in that tournament down the stretch.

You're awful.
 
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3rex said:
He is a role type player coming off a major injury.

We should have won the game without him & his absence is being used by some as an excuse.
Let me pose this question. If he were going to play a significant role in a win versus Wisconsin, he would've by definition played significant minutes. So whose minutes would you have taken away in that game?
Click to expand...

If Lyles or WCS played less in that game, would you have noticed? I don't think it's outrageous to suggest having Poythress available to guard Dekker would have been the difference in winning and losing.
 
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3rex said:
I feel a little bad for Poy. He is being built up so much, and the result of his absence is being so overblown, that it is building fans expectations to an unreasonably high level for this coming season.
Poy is a solid player, not great, not close to great.
But he can be a valuable piece & contributor & should be appreciated for that.
Click to expand...

Do you ever say anything positive about our team, or our coach, or any of our players?
 
3rex said:
As someone alluded to earlier in the thread, Wisconsin had 58 points with 2 minutes to go. Defense wasn't an issue.
If we think Poy would've likely out up 18-20 points, then maybe that would've helped.
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Dekker had a helluva game. Rebounding was a huge issue.

Keep'm coming. I love smacking you around.
 
They were never the same team without Poy. Sucks but that is the truth, as stated above we had the talent to get by without him until the Final-4.
 
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wcc31 said:
Anyone who's not a negative prick and who actually watched the 2014 NCAA run would know how valuable Poythress would have been last year. Dude was HUGE is just about every game in that tournament down the stretch.

You're awful.
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Uhhh, my post was 100% in support of letting Poy be Poy this year, not some type of savior.

Sorry if that offends
 
CELTICAT said:
If Lyles or WCS played less in that game, would you have noticed? I don't think it's outrageous to suggest having Poythress available to guard Dekker would have been the difference in winning and losing.
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CELTICAT, you obviously know the numbers/metrics, and I admittedly don't. I just don't follow that stuff, probably because I'm not smart enough. :)

But, and this may have already been done, and if so I apologize....but instead of just showing Poys metrics alone, I would like to see the metrics that were actually given to us in that game for the 40 minutes at that position...then obviously the difference in the two.

If there is a significant difference, then I would certainly listen. But I honestly can't imagine the difference to be that huge given the fact that we held them to 58 with 2 minutes to go.
 
ganner918 said:
Do you ever say anything positive about our team, or our coach, or any of our players?
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Yes, my post in this thread, the same one you quoted, was intended as a 100% positive sentiment in favor of just letting Poy be who HE is...not who you've made him out to be in his absence.
 
wcc31 said:
Dekker had a helluva game. Rebounding was a huge issue.

Keep'm coming. I love smacking you around.
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lol...Poy averaged 5 rebounds per game in his first 2 seasons, both of which were 'non-platoon.'

keep "smacking..." :rolleyes:
 
3rex said:
CELTICAT, you obviously know the numbers/metrics, and I admittedly don't. I just don't follow that stuff, probably because I'm not smart enough. :)

But, and this may have already been done, and if so I apologize....but instead of just showing Poys metrics alone, I would like to see the metrics that were actually given to us in that game for the 40 minutes at that position...then obviously the difference in the two.

If there is a significant difference, then I would certainly listen. But I honestly can't imagine the difference to be that huge given the fact that we held them to 58 with 2 minutes to go.
Click to expand...

I'm not a stat geek by any means, but this very thread started with the idea that Alex was holding his assignment to 13% shooting. I don't have the numbers handy, but I know our defensive points per possession were, literally, the best ever before he got hurt and then merely really good after. Anecdotally, he played very well against the Badgers the previous year.

I'm concerned about his recovery, and in no way expect him to be first team AA or even SEC for that matter. But with that said, his skill set is one that can swing tight games, and doesn't necessarily translate in a box score. That doesn't make him a savior, and I really don't think anyone is putting that on him. But you know late in March we're going to see talented forwards, and Alex can neutralize those players.
 
Just like Miller was a big reason we won #8, Poy getting injured was a big reason we did not win #9.
 
3rex said:
lol...Poy averaged 5 rebounds per game in his first 2 seasons, both of which were 'non-platoon.'

keep "smacking..." :rolleyes:
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Shut up and go back and watch the 2014 NCAA Tournament run.

You're miserable.
 
wcc31 said:
Shut up and go back and watch the 2014 NCAA Tournament run.

You're miserable.
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No that's ok...

Getting ready to tee off in bout an hour. Hope to get 36 in today.

The "miserable" life is not too bad...lol
 
LOL!!!! Would hate to have to spend 36 holes with a prick like you. Have fun!
 
Seriously, if you can't handle being called a prick- especially considering that's exactly what you are- I can only imagine what a bitch I'm dealing with here.

Not surprising, though.

You should probably go tell the teacher!
 
wcc31 said:
Seriously, if you can't handle being called a prick- especially considering that's exactly what you are- I can only imagine what a bitch I'm dealing with here.

Not surprising, though.
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Likewise, if you so easily get your little panties in a wad when someone dares pose a different view on your sacred thread, then maybe you should just refrain from starting them in the future.
You know, since we're all buddy-buddy & sharing advice & all.

bye now, gotta go out & be miserable for about 8 hours or so... :)
 
You're not making me jealous. I hate golf. But have fun, brother.
 
Like I always say. 3rex, you're as stupid as they come.
 
Poythress isn't anyone's All American, but he has specific qualities that would have helped vs Wisconsin. No different than if you had one outstanding perimeter shooter, who got hurt, and then you played, say, Syracuse. The fact that it would have helped having the shooter doesn't mean anyone is saying he's all world.....and in a close (2 point lead with 16 seconds left) game "would have helped" could very well be enough to make the difference between winning and losing......
 
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Mojocat said:
Poythress isn't anyone's All American, but he has specific qualities that would have helped vs Wisconsin. No different than if you had one outstanding perimeter shooter, who got hurt, and then you played, say, Syracuse. The fact that it would have helped having the shooter doesn't mean anyone is saying he's all world.....and in a close (2 point lead with 16 seconds left) game "would have helped" could very well be enough to make the difference between winning and losing......
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Good post. Fwiw, I definitely think (and the thought actually occurred to me during the UK/Wisky game) that Poythress would have helped defensively at that small forward spot.
 
UKWildcats#8 said:
UK lost to Wisconsin because they stopped putting the ball in the basket the last 5 minutes, aka due to offense. Wisconsin had 58 points with 2 minutes left. That is damn good D against one of the best offenses on paper ever. So to conclude, you can say whatever you want, but UK still should have pulled away and won that game. The terrible officiating sucked as well.
Click to expand...

While what you say is true (we stopped scoring the last 5 minutes). Had we still had Poythress, the game wouldn't have been close enough for that final 5 minute scoring drought to have mattered.
 
The one negative with poy has been his motor. Sometimes he'd play like tarzan, but alot of times he played like jane.
I wouldve liked to seen him played in that game, but who knows which poy wouldve shown up?
Bottomline, we had a good shot until we started playing tubby ball in the last 5.
 
I don't think the team really missed Alex all that much. What we lost from Alex was more than made up for in the improved play of Trey Lyles with increased playing time. Had that team not totally played out of character the last four minutes of the Wisconsin game, they would have pulled off 40-0 and been considered one of the greatest teams of all time.
 
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