Is Self ahead of the curve this time?

[JC43]

With the ever changing landscape of college basketball, has hoiberg/prohm, and now self realize the current state of college basketball? By utilizing more transfers and JUCO players to fill out their rosters, have they figured how to succeed in the new and ever-changing landscape.

 

[Dablueman]

With the ever changing landscape of college basketball, has hoiberg/prohm, and now self realize the current state of college basketball? By utilizing more transfers and JUCO players to fill out their rosters, have they figured how to succeed in the new and ever-changing landscape.

Yes he has figured out how to win conference titles and flame out early in the NCAA. He is recruiting the same guys we are he just isn't getting them. He is going to his next available option. If he wasn't recruiting virtually every player we do then u might have a point but like with the other guys u mentioned it's more of a get what they can situation

 

[EMMCAT]

With the ever changing landscape of college basketball, has hoiberg/prohm, and now self realize the current state of college basketball? By utilizing more transfers and JUCO players to fill out their rosters, have they figured how to succeed in the new and ever-changing landscape.

For KU's sake, Self better hope his garbage scavenger hunt strategy works better than his High school recruiting has been going. Lots of complete flops and head cases excluding Wiggins.( Selby, Henry, Bragg, Diallo etc.,etc. etc.

 

[Smashcat]

With the ever changing landscape of college basketball, has hoiberg/prohm, and now self realize the current state of college basketball? By utilizing more transfers and JUCO players to fill out their rosters, have they figured how to succeed in the new and ever-changing landscape.

If anything he's just copying his old boss, Fast Eddie Sutton, with transfers.

 

[AzubuikeandFitch]

There's only so many recruits to help develop a roster. Therefore, coaches like Pitino and Self have elected to not gamble against other big names. They go after certain recruits and then play the percentages.

 

[mj2k10]

It's worth considering as a thought experiment, but I still think it's obvious that the teams with the highest ceilings are the teams with the best talent, regardless of age or experience. You're obviously going to have a significant level of volatility, though, if you never really have any experience. Do you aim for a juggernaut, when everything breaks your way (some surprise returns and a recruiting class where guys are ready for Primetime), or do you aim for a guaranteed, consistent level?

I've theorized before that part of the reason for the Big 12's early season OOC success, that invariably jacks up their RPI and then gets them over-seeded in March, is because Big 12 schools tend to have more experienced rosters. Their teams as a whole just don't get the level of recruit that consistently bolts early. But then look at what happens to them in March. I think other teams, with less experience but talented players, catch up by the end of the year.

In the SEC, I'd say Florida has done a really good job with this kind of approach. But again, are they winning titles? Consistently making FF's? No. Florida is pretty much Kansas minus (since Kansas is able to sprinkle in elite recruits). They hit a level, then run into an obstacle they aren't talented enough to overcome.

 

[track42]

We will have to wait and see how it turns out.

 

[Hoskins21]

No.

 

[wildcatsboston1984]

With the ever changing landscape of college basketball, has hoiberg/prohm, and now self realize the current state of college basketball? By utilizing more transfers and JUCO players to fill out their rosters, have they figured how to succeed in the new and ever-changing landscape.

Mark Few has been doing it far longer than they have

 

[seccats04]

For KU's sake, Self better hope his garbage scavenger hunt strategy works better than his High school recruiting has been going. Lots of complete flops and head cases excluding Wiggins.( Selby, Henry, Bragg, Diallo etc.,etc. etc.

I agree and it irks me that they've beat us two straight years.

 

[kyups01]

With the ever changing landscape of college basketball, has hoiberg/prohm, and now self realize the current state of college basketball? By utilizing more transfers and JUCO players to fill out their rosters, have they figured how to succeed in the new and ever-changing landscape.

He is ahead of the curve in routinely fielding a top 3 team and bowing out of the NCAA tourney in the first and second rounds.

 

[Calsthebomb]

Having to resort to transfers isn't ahead of the curve. He can't keep up with recruiting so he has no choice.

 

[TheBlueDisciple]

For KU's sake, Self better hope his garbage scavenger hunt strategy works better than his High school recruiting has been going. Lots of complete flops and head cases excluding Wiggins.( Selby, Henry, Bragg, Diallo etc.,etc. etc.

I remember Henry actually being really good his frosh year. Now his dad...Self sure knows how to pick the parents.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

His recruiting is in the crapper. He's getting guys late in the process because Duke, Kentucky and other schools have filled up. Happened with Jackson, happened with Wiggins.

He was smart to adjust his plan and go for transfers, but it was out of necessity. Not only that but his team is going through a big change by losing upperclassmen and Josh Jackson.

 

[UK_fan_41102]

I'm not sure if the op meant ahead of the curve in winning the most conference championships,

or ahead of the curve in choking against the most mid-majors?

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

His recruiting is in the crapper. He's getting guys late in the process because Duke, Kentucky and other schools have filled up. Happened with Jackson, happened with Wiggins.

He was smart to adjust his plan and go for transfers, but it was out of necessity. Not only that but his team is going through a big change by losing upperclassmen and Josh Jackson.

Jackson and Wiggins are late in the process kids who weren't considering Kentucky or Duke. Usually the top 3 or 4 kids in a class commit late. Bad examples for your argument. Are Preston and Garrett and Udoka recruiting failures? The players we are taking in as transfers will contribute more than many of the kids in the 2018 class which has about maybe two legit one and done talents.

And didn't Calipari have a JUCO on the roster last year and he's going after a couple of transfers this off-season?

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

I remember Henry actually being really good his frosh year. Now his dad...Self sure knows how to pick the parents.

Henry was a Calipari commit, before he moved to Kentucky and re-opened his recruitment. His dad said dumb things, but had zero interference with the program.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

He's not loading up on transfers because he's good at recruiting. Self is having trouble keeping up with Cal and now K. Between the two of them, they are grabbing 20% of the top50 recruits. That tightens the rest for everyone else. The proof is in the pudding.. Kansas has two guys next year. Last year, Jackson saw Kansas was bare and surprised a lot of people by not picking MSU. I'm not saying he goes he goes to Kentucky/Duke, but those schools would have turned up the heat had they had no one else coming on.

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

He's not loading up on transfers because he's good at recruiting. Self is having trouble keeping up with Cal and now K. Between the two of them, they are grabbing 20% of the top50 recruits. That tightens the rest for everyone else. The proof is in the pudding.. Kansas has two guys next year. Last year, Jackson saw Kansas was bare and surprised a lot of people by not picking MSU. I'm not saying he goes he goes to Kentucky/Duke, but those schools would have turned up the heat had they had no one else coming on.

Jackson saw the cupboards were bare at KU? The KU who had the consensus player of the year winner on its roster? Sure Kentucky and Duke are cleaning up on the recruiting trail, but they really need to, since you lose everyone every year and in the era of one and done, returning a quality player is just as important as brining in a top recruit. If you look at KU's roster next year to what Kentucky's is next year, we are more talented at almost every position. And I'm talking about talent that will translate to their playing time in college. Not how they will dominate in the NBA.

 

[mj2k10]

Jackson and Wiggins are late in the process kids who weren't considering Kentucky or Duke. Usually the top 3 or 4 kids in a class commit late. Bad examples for your argument. Are Preston and Garrett and Udoka recruiting failures? The players we are taking in as transfers will contribute more than many of the kids in the 2018 class which has about maybe two legit one and done talents.

And didn't Calipari have a JUCO on the roster last year and he's going after a couple of transfers this off-season?

Cal has had 2 JUCOS at UK, 1 senior transfer, and 1 normal transfer. None (of any of those) in the last 4 years. 5 if Cam Johnson doesn't come this year.

And you're listing Garrett? Seriously? Who do you think you were competing against to get him? Sure as Hell wasn't UK.

Cal can get a minimum of 3-4 five star recruits, every single year. Self can't. That's pretty close to a fact.

Your guy does a nice job. He finds a way to win 30 almost every year. But pretty much every year, you run into someone with legit NBA or near NBA talent in the tournament, and you lose. Or you just play like crap and lose to some lesser team. Because Cal can get so many elite prospects, UK has pretty much been immune to that.

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

Cal has had 2 JUCOS at UK, 1 senior transfer, and 1 normal transfer. None (of any of those) in the last 4 years. 5 if Cam Johnson doesn't come this year.

And you're listing Garrett? Seriously? Who do you think you were competing against to get him? Sure as Hell wasn't UK.

Cal can get a minimum of 3-4 five star recruits, every single year. Self can't. That's pretty close to a fact.

Your guy does a nice job. He finds a way to win 30 almost every year. But pretty much every year, you run into someone with legit NBA or near NBA talent in the tournament, and you lose. Or you just play like crap and lose to some lesser team. Because Cal can get so many elite prospects, UK has pretty much been immune to that.

- Cal is going after transfers JUCO's this year to fill out his class.
- At worst, Garrett is comparable to Baker or Gilgeous-Alexander, at best, he's better.
- I am not disputing that Cal gets more than his share of 5-stars each year. It is harder to get a player to play in Kansas than it is on the East Coast or Kentucky.
- Kentucky never gets the benefit of all that 5 star talent, since they leave after one year.
- To your last point, KU went further than Kentucky last year.

Do you honestly think that Kentucky with all it's 5 star talent next year is going to go farther in the tournament than KU?

 

[mj2k10]

- Cal is going after transfers JUCO's this year to fill out his class.
- At worst, Garrett is comparable to Baker or Gilgeous-Alexander, at best, he's better.
- I am not disputing that Cal gets more than his share of 5-stars each year. It is harder to get a player to play in Kansas than it is on the East Coast or Kentucky.
- Kentucky never gets the benefit of all that 5 star talent, since they leave after one year.
- To your last point, KU went further than Kentucky last year.

Do you honestly think that Kentucky with all it's 5 star talent next year is going to go farther in the tournament than KU?

What is you ignorant?



Let us address the idiocy contained in this specific piece of trolling.

- Cal is going after 1 specific transfer.
- Garrett probably is comparable to Baker. The 7th rated player in UK's recruiting class. Garrett is one of 2 guys you've signed. SGA? No, not by a long shot.
- OK, you didn't go 0/5
- Really? Then why does UK have more wins, more tournament wins, more FF's, and more titles than Kansas since Cal has been at UK?
- No, dumbass, both teams lost in the Elite 8. And UK lost on a last second shot to the team that won the title, as opposed to getting its ass kicked in what was virtually a home game, by a 3 seed.

And why shouldn't I think that UK is going to go further than Kansas next year? They did in 10, 11, 12, 14, and 15. The score on that count is 5-2-1 in favor of UK.

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

What is you ignorant?

View embedded media

Let us address the idiocy contained in this specific piece of trolling.

- Cal is going after 1 specific transfer.
- Garrett probably is comparable to Baker. The 7th rated player in UK's recruiting class. Garrett is one of 2 guys you've signed. SGA? No, not by a long shot.
- OK, you didn't go 0/5
- Really? Then why does UK have more wins, more tournament wins, more FF's, and more titles than Kansas since Cal has been at UK?
- No, dumbass, both teams lost in the Elite 8. And UK lost on a last second shot to the team that won the title, as opposed to getting its ass kicked in what was virtually a home game by a 3 seed.

- Didn't you go after Marcus Smith and Cam Johnson?
- Agree to disagree.
- More titles? 13 Big 12 titles ( ) Both have one national title.

And our recruiting class is (includes any player who could have entered the draft and returned or is playing their first year at KU):

Graham - potential first team AA next year
Newman - top 5 talent in his class
Cunliffe - top 40 in his class
Garrett - top 35-65 depending on which list you look at.
Preston - top 5 talent, top 20 consistency
Udoka - top 30 in his class

And we still have one to give.

 

[dubtown80]

Cal has had 2 JUCOS at UK, 1 senior transfer, and 1 normal transfer. None (of any of those) in the last 4 years. 5 if Cam Johnson doesn't come this year.

And you're listing Garrett? Seriously? Who do you think you were competing against to get him? Sure as Hell wasn't UK.

Cal can get a minimum of 3-4 five star recruits, every single year. Self can't. That's pretty close to a fact.

Your guy does a nice job. He finds a way to win 30 almost every year. But pretty much every year, you run into someone with legit NBA or near NBA talent in the tournament, and you lose. Or you just play like crap and lose to some lesser team. Because Cal can get so many elite prospects, UK has pretty much been immune to that.

You don't need to have a team of 5 star guys to win the title. It helps to have a couple but having a team full of 4 star guys that stick around with a couple 5 star guys gives you the best chance since the 5 star guys typically only stay a year maybe two

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

You don't need to have a team of 5 star guys to win the title. It helps to have a couple but having a team full of 4 star guys that stick around with a couple 5 star guys gives you the best chance since the 5 star guys typically only stay a year maybe two

Agreed. My opinion, which I know Kentucky fans could care less about, is that your incoming class will have the type of talent that plays two years and will provide a foundation for a legitimate Kentucky title run in 2019.

 

[mj2k10]

- Didn't you go after Marcus Smith and Cam Johnson?
- Agree to disagree.
- More titles? 13 Big 12 titles ( ) Both have one national title.

And our recruiting class is (includes any player who could have entered the draft and returned or is playing their first year at KU):

Graham - potential first team AA next year
Newman - top 5 talent in his class
Cunliffe - top 40 in his class
Garrett - top 35-65 depending on which list you look at.
Preston - top 5 talent, top 20 consistency
Udoka - top 30 in his class

And we still have one to give.

Who is Marcus Smith?

Beyond that, enjoy being the second best team in your state next year. And your 1141st Big 12 title in a row. Because really, given the Big 12's stellar performance in the tournament, that means oh so much.

And, BTW, your 1st team AA for next year went 0-7 from the field and scored 3 points while your team was losing by 14. And that was while the Oregon guards were scoring 41 on 15/26 shooting, with 8 three pointers.

 

[mj2k10]

You don't need to have a team of 5 star guys to win the title. It helps to have a couple but having a team full of 4 star guys that stick around with a couple 5 star guys gives you the best chance since the 5 star guys typically only stay a year maybe two

There has been no consistent pattern to teams that have won titles while Cal has been at UK. Trying to claim you have a recipe is 100% bullsh**.

Most title teams are going to have experience, because the total number of players who leave as freshmen or sophomores is, in the overall scope of things, very small. But still, since Cal has been here, he won a title that was spearheaded by a spectacular recruiting class, and then Duke did too.

 

[Nooneputsbabyinacorner]

Who is Marcus Smith?

https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/mark-smith-commits-to.234465/

 

[mj2k10]

https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/threads/mark-smith-commits-to.234465/

Jesus, just stop.

That would be Mark Smith, and he's a HS player, you moron.

Go home. You're not qualified to troll here.

 

[wcc31]

The players aren't the problem for Self/Kansas- it's that they have choke DNA running through their veins. That's a Kansaa thing. That stink comes with the jersey.

I mean- they got beat by 14 in the E8- barely showed up. Different players- same crap effort when they're really needed.

 

[dubtown80]

There has been no consistent pattern to teams that have won titles while Cal has been at UK. Trying to claim you have a recipe is 100% bullsh**.

Most title teams are going to have experience, because the total number of players who leave as freshmen or sophomores is, in the overall scope of things, very small. But still, since Cal has been here, he won a title that was spearheaded by a spectacular recruiting class, and then Duke did too.

Well no team of only freshmen playing wins it all. Look at what UNC has done the last two years and what their team was made up of. Then there's the Villanova team that didn't even have a 5 star. I say you take the best you can get so I would do what Cal and K are doing. I'm just saying the experienced team with a lot of talent with beat the loaded team that's younger.

 

[mj2k10]

Well no team of only freshmen playing wins it all. Look at what UNC has done the last two years and what their team was made up of. Then there's the Villanova team that didn't even have a 5 star. I say you take the best you can get so I would do what Cal and K are doing. I'm just saying the experienced team with a lot of talent with beat the loaded team that's younger.

Evidence of that?

None.

 

[Deli owl]

He's desperate for next year.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

He's desperate for next year.

False. Self is tired of these whack and talent less 5-star recruits. He's going for 4-year journeymen. He's truly on the up and up. Onward, Onward, Big12 title.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

He's way ahead of the curve when it comes to selecting the perfect rug to match the little hair he has

 

[Bobcat94]

Bill Self has done less in the NCAA tournament than any blue blood the last 10 or so years. He's always a top 1-3 seed and normally doesn't make it to the round of 16 yearly. Has their ever been a program that has flames out with more top seeds in the tournament than Kansas?

 

[bthaunert]

Mark Few has been doing it far longer than they have

This is the answer. Just like Bill Snyder took K State to new heights in football by hitting the JC route, Few has taken Gonzaga to new heights by hitting the transfer route:

2016-17: 3 of top 4 scorers on Runner-up were transfers
2015-16: Leading scorer on Sweet 16 team
2014-15: 1st and 4th leading scorer on Elite 8 team

 

[UKrazycat2]

The only thing ahead of Self's hairline curve is lots of skin and two eyebrows.

 

[bthaunert]

Bill Self has done less in the NCAA tournament than any blue blood the last 10 or so years. He's always a top 1-3 seed and normally doesn't make it to the round of 16 yearly. Has their ever been a program that has flames out with more top seeds in the tournament than Kansas?

Since winning the title in 2008, Kansas has done the following under Self:

1 Final Four (2 seed)
3 Elite Eights (1, 1 and 1 seeds)
2 Sweet Sixteens (3 and 1 seeds)
3 First weekend exits (1, 2 and 2 seeds)

Basically, this means that Kansas has performed to or above their seed 2 times over the last 9 years and under performed to their seed 7 times. That will get you fired at a lot of places.

 

[Chuckinden]

He could be ahead of the curve. Getting some transfers that "should" help them with their experience might be the answer. I'll wait to see how it plays out.