I loved 2021 Coen. I loved our 2021 offense. But I also love the pieces we had in place. O-line, Levis, Wandale, C Rod, etc. I give a bunch of credit to Coen, but I also know our personnel strengths on that side of the ball — as a whole — are far superior to what we once had. The easy answer is obviously both, but if Coen leaves, is it easier to replace him, or the pieces? Considering what we had before him, what we have now, and what we have coming … Coen is expendable. If we bring in the right replacement. I honestly worry more about the next QB. With a good OC, the right QB is everything.
Is it Coen? Or the pieces?
- Thread starter Blue63Madison
- Start date
GD man, I am still enjoying the Citrus win, a 10-3 season and a no. 15 ranking. Can I at least wait until spring practice to start worrying about the what ifs of the next season or two? 
I’m with ya, buddy. But I’ve lived UK football my whole life. This “Coen is leaving” talk makes me nervous. Everything feels perfect now. The slightest hiccup throws it off track, in the mind of a long timer like me. Sorry. 😐GD man, I am still enjoying the Citrus win, a 10-3 season and a no. 15 ranking. Can I at least wait until spring practice to start worrying about the what ifs of the next season or two?
10-4, we all have scars and have seen way too many gut wrenching defeats for our own psychological well being.
It's definitely both. But, I think it's the pieces more than Coen. I love Coen's offense, but we haven't had a QB with the arm Levis has in many years. I think the QB is harder to get than the OC.
Imagine being a diehard fan of both the Cats and Bengals — for 55 years. That’s me.
Great players make great coaches. Period.
Having said that, a good OC who understands the strengths of his personnel can make good pieces even better. Coen showed last year that he can adjust the scheme to fit our strengths as we ran more inside zone stuff later in the season when we were not excelling at the outside runs. When you look at our offense last year, the number of times a receiver was pretty wide open vs. previous years when we had no one seemingly able to create separation was very noticeable. Sure, Wandale was a huge upgrade but Ali, Cummings, Rigg, et al also had plenty of opportunities. The scheme was just that much better.
Having said that, a good OC who understands the strengths of his personnel can make good pieces even better. Coen showed last year that he can adjust the scheme to fit our strengths as we ran more inside zone stuff later in the season when we were not excelling at the outside runs. When you look at our offense last year, the number of times a receiver was pretty wide open vs. previous years when we had no one seemingly able to create separation was very noticeable. Sure, Wandale was a huge upgrade but Ali, Cummings, Rigg, et al also had plenty of opportunities. The scheme was just that much better.
Agree but we wouldn’t have gotten Levis without Coen. I guess it’s the ol chicken or the egg?
Haha, the only ongoing & intense "Coen is leaving" talk happens on this message board
Its a little bit like the time tested question - "The Chicken or the Egg" isn't it. Coen actually brought many of the pieces with him - Wandale and Levi for sure - right? What this says to me that a known offensive/quarteback coach, pros or college - will produce. Probably the best example in the country now is Lincoln Riley. Mark knew about Lincoln at East Carolina, and tried to bring him to Kentucky - does everyone remember that - but his big brother stepped in and pulled him to Oklahoma - which was a no brainer decision for Lincoln at the time. We know how that story turned out.
So, one last point. Eddie Gran was/is a fine coach and man - he apparently was Mark Stoops second choice - but without a doubt in my mind - Mark had tabbed Lincoln Riley as his first choice - which says to me several things about Mark Stoops. He knows talent, knows what he wants and is super loyal to his coaches and players!
This all means, if you didn't realize it before - we have one heck of a head football coach! Stock up on your popcorn as the show has just begun at Kentucky. The next decade will be something to enjoy!
Go Big Blue!
As with all questions like this....it's not 100% one or the other but combinations of things. But I'll say this with confidence...it was 80% Coen and maybe 20% talent change.
1. The Oline, RB and TE group were nearly identical from 2020 to 2021. Heck...you could even argue TE was way worse as Upshaw missed the entire year of 2021.
2. The Levis vs. Terry Wilson....it's not even close. And Wandale vs. Dailey/Bryce Oliver/DeMarcus Harris/Hayes, etc...is even less close. But Ali = Ali....but look at the year he put up even as 2nd target vs. main target. 601 yards in 2021 to 473 in 2020...and he missed 3 games in 2021.
Defenses in 2020 could just sit 8 in box and play us man to man and destroy any short passing or intermediate....and Terry Wilson could not complete a deep pass to save his life. BUt in 2021, sure the QB was better...but we had an OC that called crossing routes when teams tried to man us...and UK was lethal vs. zone coverage as we hit those curl routes a ton underneath zone schemes. THe run game was only 10 yards less a game vs. passing was up nearly 100 yards a game.
THe last point to me is recruiting is part of coaching no matter how you want to pull it apart. Gran was hear for 6 years and could not recruit and at the end...killed positions kids had little desire to come play in his scheme. Wandale all but said he wasn't coming if Gran were still here, Ali was not opting back in 2021 w/Gran, Levis is here due to Coen and Dane Key, Barion Brown, etc...were not coming to UK with the old guard.
So for sure Coen is a big deal. And if we lose Coen, Stoops has shown he can replace talented coaches. I'd imagine he'd go right back to the NFL route (interesting the OL guy is a NFL guy) get a coach that runs the ball under Center a bit and balances the attack with the pass. I hope we don't go back to the rave of college which is the read option stuff.
1. The Oline, RB and TE group were nearly identical from 2020 to 2021. Heck...you could even argue TE was way worse as Upshaw missed the entire year of 2021.
2. The Levis vs. Terry Wilson....it's not even close. And Wandale vs. Dailey/Bryce Oliver/DeMarcus Harris/Hayes, etc...is even less close. But Ali = Ali....but look at the year he put up even as 2nd target vs. main target. 601 yards in 2021 to 473 in 2020...and he missed 3 games in 2021.
Defenses in 2020 could just sit 8 in box and play us man to man and destroy any short passing or intermediate....and Terry Wilson could not complete a deep pass to save his life. BUt in 2021, sure the QB was better...but we had an OC that called crossing routes when teams tried to man us...and UK was lethal vs. zone coverage as we hit those curl routes a ton underneath zone schemes. THe run game was only 10 yards less a game vs. passing was up nearly 100 yards a game.
THe last point to me is recruiting is part of coaching no matter how you want to pull it apart. Gran was hear for 6 years and could not recruit and at the end...killed positions kids had little desire to come play in his scheme. Wandale all but said he wasn't coming if Gran were still here, Ali was not opting back in 2021 w/Gran, Levis is here due to Coen and Dane Key, Barion Brown, etc...were not coming to UK with the old guard.
So for sure Coen is a big deal. And if we lose Coen, Stoops has shown he can replace talented coaches. I'd imagine he'd go right back to the NFL route (interesting the OL guy is a NFL guy) get a coach that runs the ball under Center a bit and balances the attack with the pass. I hope we don't go back to the rave of college which is the read option stuff.
It's definitely both. If coen was saddled with Terry and that receiving room, last year looks alot different. We probably still win 6 or 7 games but we'd lack all the momentum we have now..
The offense needed a massive change in perception. Getting coen resulted in wandale, Levis, and Ali returning; in addition to the wave in offensive recruiting.
The offense needed a massive change in perception. Getting coen resulted in wandale, Levis, and Ali returning; in addition to the wave in offensive recruiting.
Seriously I haven't seen anything more than UK fans/sites reporting it as a possibility. I swear this whole drama is made up.
I get most of my UK football info from UK sites, UK media, etc. Podcasts and that kind of thing. Not many more options since I moved down here to GA.
Yeah that's the only places I see it talked about seriously. No legit national sources of any kind.
You can have all the peices but it takes a special man to put it all together. 😎
It's the pieces and the coach (and the coach got some of those big pieces), the whole thing works together as a system.
Coen status? Like Coach says don't worry about things you have no control over. If he leaves, the line will be long for a quality replacement and Stoops will get a very good one.
Coen status? Like Coach says don't worry about things you have no control over. If he leaves, the line will be long for a quality replacement and Stoops will get a very good one.
It takes both a coaches system and players one cannot due without the other that’s why its a team sport one is not greater than the other. The system attracts the players if Eddie was the coordinator you wouldn’t have Robinson or Levis. So for those who think the players are more important that should answer the question. If Coen doesn’t have Robinson or Levis we wouldn’t have been as successful.
Out Oline was not as good as you remember. Did not give Levis the time he needed quite a bit.
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