If you're a *stars* fan, Cats class is an excellent one

[UKErik]

Fans will surf through the rivals class rankings and find that Kentucky is ranked 49th. Pretty awful, right? Maybe not.

Keep in mind, rivals really rewards schools for signing a lot of players. UK only has 15 verbals right now. So is quantity better than quality? Of course not.

So if you're a fan that puts any validity into rankings, consider;

*Kentucky's 15 verbals "average" 3.13 stars. Of the 79-80 schools ranked below Kentucky, NONE have an average star ranking better than 3.13.

*Of the 48 schools ranked AHEAD of Kentucky, 22 have an average below Kentucky's.

Again, it's important to remember that rivals number is a product of both quantity and quality. If you take the quantity number out of the equation and solely look at quality, Kentucky has the 27th ranked class in the nation right now.

So long story short, while UK only signing 15-16 players could hurt down the road, it isn't anything that can't be made up for with JUCO's or even high school players. The MOST IMPORTANT thing about any class is quality. And it appears Kentucky is getting very good quality.

GBB!!!

This post was edited on 2/2 4:44 PM by UKErik

 

[Deeeefense]

the team ranking will not be that high this year becasue of the number of players we take. I'm not worried about that because all of these players will bolster the roster. If you look at what our roster will look like after Wednesday it will be a lot stronger than a year ago. There will be a few holes to fill but they may be able to grab a late JUCO or two or a couple of transfers to fill them. At any rate things are still in pretty good shape and we should get some good news abut a couple or more soon.

 

[UKErik]

Agreed deeeefense. This class makes Kentucky better. No question about it.

GBB!!!

 

[Ky grandpa]

Thank you Erick for pointing that out maybe it will save some lives. lol
Some are already jumping off the bridge's.lol
Go BB

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

3 years prior to Stoops, our classes were 2.88, 2.96 and 2.77.

Stoops first year 3.05, last year 3.32 and so far this year a 3.13. So this class is actually higher average rating than his first class. We add Lewis and couple more 3 stars we're gonna have yet another great class.

Quality is there despite the rash of decommits. Still hoping we can at least get to 20 in this class. We needs it.

 

[BigSexyCat]

Average Star Rating for UK through the years:

Brooks/Joker Recruits
2008 - 2.5 stars
2009 - 2.69 stars
2010 - 2.77 stars
2011 - 2.96 stars
2012 - 2.88 stars

Stoops Recruits
2013 - 3.05 stars
2014 - 3.61 stars
2015 - 3.13 stars

 

[seccats04]

Originally posted by BigSexyCat:
Average Star Rating for UK through the years:

Brooks/Joker Recruits
2008 - 2.5 stars
2009 - 2.69 stars
2010 - 2.77 stars
2011 - 2.96 stars
2012 - 2.88 stars

Stoops Recruits
2013 - 3.05 stars
2014 - 3.61 stars
2015 - 3.13 stars

This can be misleading though because Rivals issues alot more 3 stars than they used to. What was a 2 star in 2005-2009, is probably a low 3 star now. Very few 2 stars are signed by Power 5 teams.

 

[Smashcat]

A commitment from 4-star Lewis tomorrow certainly won't 'hurt' either.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

Originally posted by UKErik:
Fans will surf through the rivals class rankings and find that Kentucky is ranked 49th. Pretty awful, right? Maybe not.

Keep in mind, rivals really rewards schools for signing a lot of players. UK only has 15 verbals right now. So is quantity better than quality? Of course not.

So if you're a fan that puts any validity into rankings, consider;

*Kentucky's 15 verbals "average" 3.13 stars. Of the 79-80 schools ranked below Kentucky, NONE have an average star ranking better than 3.13.

*Of the 48 schools ranked AHEAD of Kentucky, 22 have an average below Kentucky's.

Again, it's important to remember that rivals number is a product of both quantity and quality. If you take the quantity number out of the equation and solely look at quality, Kentucky has the 27th ranked class in the nation right now.

So long story short, while UK only signing 15-16 players could hurt down the road, it isn't anything that can't be made up for with JUCO's or even high school players. The MOST IMPORTANT thing about any class is quality. And it appears Kentucky is getting very good quality.

GBB!!!


This post was edited on 2/2 4:44 PM by UKErik

___________________________________


"So long story short, while UK only signing 15-16 players could hurt down the road".

That's the part of your post that concerns me. We need more players. Signing 15-16 players will hurt really bad down the road. Maybe they pull a rabbit out of their ass but I think a small class will kill us.

 

[mrschwump]

So the plan all along was to take mid to upper teens. For the sake of discussion, let's assume UK had NO decommits plus would be getting Miller and the RB Who Shall Remain Nameless. Would they take all of those?

On face value Erik's scenario looks valid. Will it help? Just have to wait and see, Stoops signing day comments will be most interesting.
This post was edited on 2/2 5:25 PM by mrschwump

 

[UKErik]

CHAMPCAT11, signing small classes certainly has the potential to be a killer. It gives you less margin for error with attrition and players who just bust.

Just have to hope Stoops can work through it.

GBB!!!

 

[bigblueinsanity]

What a tough call:

1) Sign 15 kids you feel good about and bank on success this season so you have more spots available. Or

2) take the best quality you can get and round out the class?

I like option 1 better.

 

[Rhavicc]

Things like this also don't take into account the underrated recruits that Kentucky seemingly always gets. Our latest may be the addition of our new New Jersey DE, who led a very talent rich state in sacks in his very first year at the position. People like to crunch numbers, but won't do any form of semi-advanced number crunching (Like the OP).
They just like to look and say "Oh, #49, we're sucking again, guys".
We get similar, sometimes better numbers these days that the Baylors, the TCU's, the Michigan States of the world, and they do awfully well. Even West Virginia was ranked for the longest time before losing their starting QB, and then running into a bit of a struggle, and we have much better talent that them, and even have their OC now.
People really need to relax, this program is fine. All of the whining and complaining will stop tomorrow. There will be the select few nancies that can't help but whine, but overall, our fan base will feel much better if we pick up Marcus Lewis, and a few surprise players at signing day.

 

[UKErik]

bigblueinsanity, I agree 100%.

GBB!!!

 

[ukalumni00]

I remember seeing all sorts of posts (pre Stoops) trying to explain how UK's classes were really good. I along with others just shook our heads at the explanations. Fellowship of Misery we were labeled.

That said, this time around I believe what Erik and others are saying. I think there is a lot of quality in this class, but not huge numbers. Is it Bama quality, of course not. Did it address some pressing needs for the program, absolutely.

Win games next season and show that players are developing and the 2016 class will be one to remember.

Getting Lewis would be a major get for this program.

 

[catnerd]

I believe a much more accurate gauge of the recruiting class, if using Rivals, is to go by the Rival's ranking instead of stars. There's a gap between a 5.4 and a 5.7 three-star recruit, as a whole (I know there's exceptions). So, if you break down Stoops' three classes by Rival's ranking, it looks something like this:


2013=5.614

2014=5.686

2015=5.673


So, as you can see, this class is closer to last year's class in quality than Stoops' first year.


If we get Lewis tomorrow, that will actually push our average to 5.687, one one thousandth of a point higher than last year's average, considered by many to be our best class in history!

So, Erik's and other's point about quality is a good one.
This post was edited on 2/2 6:25 PM by catnerd

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

Originally posted by UKErik:
CHAMPCAT11, signing small classes certainly has the potential to be a killer. It gives you less margin for error with attrition and players who just bust.

Just have to hope Stoops can work through it.

GBB!!!

I hope you're right. I've had a good feeling about Stoops and Marrow all along but these last few weeks have been really strange. We'll know a lot more in the next few days.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

I also like to look at position rankings. Years ago we hardly got much players that are ranked at their respective positions.

 

[K_TIME]

I think that is a fair point that our average star is still pretty good but hurting with number of kids...which is reasonable.

But this class is laying a huge egg in losing all these DE/OLB kids in a spot where we lose Bud, Zadarius and maybe Tubman. We're not doing much of anything in terms of making the DL better down the road with this class. Also, unless we get Lewis...the safety spot really needed some kids in this class which isn't happening right now. Regardless...this is a big step back for Stoops and if he loses Barker, Baker, Tubman, etc out of last year's class due to off field mess....what we did last year will start to lose it's luster.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

Originally posted by *Bleedingblue*:
I also like to look at position rankings. Years ago we hardly got much players that are ranked at their respective positions.

Yup the entire board would have a string of NR down it. The progress in 3 years is unbelievable. Just gotta keep keeping on.

 

[2bunnies]

Originally posted by *Bleedingblue*:
I also like to look at position rankings. Years ago we hardly got much players that are ranked at their respective positions.

Exactly, this is what I've said in another thread. Before Stoops, they were rarely ranked in position. Only 3 of the 15 current recruits aren't ranked. I guarantee UK will not stop at 15, I would think they take at least 20. Who knows who may come up available by end of the school year too.

This post was edited on 2/2 7:25 PM by 2bunnies

 

[Comebakatz3]

Originally posted by bigblueinsanity:
What a tough call:

1) Sign 15 kids you feel good about and bank on success this season so you have more spots available. Or

2) take the best quality you can get and round out the class?

I like option 1 better.

I think I would be perfectly fine with number 1 if (and it is a very big IF) we knew that we were going to make a huge wave in 2016 recruiting. I remember about this time of year last year we were really hyped about 2015 recruiting. We were looking at easily getting Jarrett Stidham, Damien Harris, and/or Elijah Sindlear. It looked to be an extremely promising year with those guys. We missed/passed on all of them. I remember we were extremely excited because guys like CeCe Jefferson were talking about us on Twitter very on in the process. With all this 2015 looked to be a very exciting year in recruiting. Now, we're looking at your two options. I don't know what 2016 looks like overall. I know it looks pretty solid right now with 6 commitments, including Drake Jackson, but I'd be a little concerned about needing to sign 30-35 some odd kids next year. Is there enough JUCO talent to balance things out later?

I certainly agree there is quality in this class. Hopefully we can round it out with at least 5 or so more solid recruits to make next year a bit easier to recruit.

 

[2bunnies]

Why is everyone stuck on this number 15, as if they've just stopped recruiting and called it quits??

 

[KumarCat]

Slice it anyway you want. 48 teams have better classes than us right now. We may sign more guys and that may change. At best it gets us in mid 30's which isn't good enough in the SEC. We don't play all those other teams with 2.86 stars or whatever it is. We have to beat who's on our schedule and we have to recruit better than we did this year to have the kind of success this staff wants to have. BUT I think we will. Let them win 7 next season and they'll get back on a roll.

 

[vhcat70]

UK is in no depth position to come up short in numbers. CFB is a numbers game as much as it's quality with all the reasons teams lose players & the inability to replace them immediately. I don't think anyone is much concerned about the quality it appears we will get this year. But not signing at least 20 if not 22-23 is a problem in the making. Saying we can sign more in 2016 says you're OK with lack of experience & physical development along about 2017-18. I'm not.

 

[qwesley]

Originally posted by K_TIME:

But this class is laying a huge egg in losing all these DE/OLB kids in a spot where we lose Bud, Zadarius and maybe Tubman. We're not doing much of anything in terms of making the DL better down the road with this class.

Huge concern

 

[2bunnies]

By star ranking, we are currently 11 of 14 in SEC and will be at least 10 and possibly 9th in the end, but unlikely. We were 9th both ways you look at it last year and those guys mostly red shirted. Most of this class will red shirt this year. It's a great building block period. Wait till all these facilities are done and this third season under Stoops. You cannot turn around nearly 30 years, or more depending on how you rate FB, of mediocrity overnight. No one can argue (with sanity) that the recruiting is miles ahead of previous staffs. Remember that CMS had a little clearing house when he took over and we departed with several upper classmen.

 

[UKErik]

vhcat70, I agree with that. Maybe UK can backfill with 2-3 JUCO's? Maybe get lucky with attrition.

GBB!!!

 

[BigBluePhantom]

Originally posted by qwesley:

Originally posted by K_TIME:

But this class is laying a huge egg in losing all these DE/OLB kids in a spot where we lose Bud, Zadarius and maybe Tubman. We're not doing much of anything in terms of making the DL better down the road with this class.

Huge concern

Yes, pretty much all of the other panic is unfounded but we absolutely have to fill in these holes. You have to think that Stoops will fill the holes as he finishes out the class. These positions should be pretty attractive to the remaining recruits because the promise of playing time is a definite. Really need some JUCO help in these positions because they are not the positions that freshmen usually come in and do well the first year.

 

[UKErik]

Maybe Stoops should hit he waiver wire like the Cards do

.

GBB!!!

 

[Rhavicc]

Originally posted by KumarCat:
Slice it anyway you want. 48 teams have better classes than us right now. We may sign more guys and that may change. At best it gets us in mid 30's which isn't good enough in the SEC. We don't play all those other teams with 2.86 stars or whatever it is. We have to beat who's on our schedule and we have to recruit better than we did this year to have the kind of success this staff wants to have. BUT I think we will. Let them win 7 next season and they'll get back on a roll.

You're insufferable and incredibly ignorant.
Looks at Ole Miss' classes, and look at TCU's. Now go back, and watch the TCU vs Ole Miss game, and repeat to me "mid 30's isn't good enough for the SEC"
Go look at teams like Baylor, Oregon, Michigan State, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and the dozens of other programs with similar and sometimes worse overall recruiting classes than us, and say that they can't compete.

You completely, 100% ignored the material in the post, and resorted to "but... but.. 49!!!!" after Erik statistically showed you that, I believe 22 programs in front of us have less talented players overall coming into their program.
And then you truthfully insult the competency of the staff to get these players, who are far and away more talented than what we're used to getting, and pretend that they can't properly develop the players, assemble the team in a way that puts us in positions to win games, and calls plays well enough for us to go out and win said games.

This is a blue collar program, and we recruit very talented blue collar players, and if you want the security blanket of having 17 4 star players committed to your program year in and year out, and not having to worry nearly as much about recruiting as you have to worry about development, it may be time for you to become an Alabama fan.

Quit putting so much stock into our recruiting, it's handled, it has been handled for 3, going on 4 years now, and it is going to continue to be handled. You should worry more about the development of these players. You should be excited to get the 17 or so other players that we didn't get to have on the field last year from our best class in program history, on the field this year, and as a fan, you should support the work that the staff and the players have put in, what the athletics department has finally paid into the program, and you should support the young men that commit to playing here for seemingly ungrateful people like yourself.

The chicken littles you see around here are embarrassing, but every team's fan base has them I suppose.

 

[gobigblue812]

I guess I'll be the one to say it. Anybody who HONESTLY thinks that we only sign 15 in this class is an IDIOT. If you really HONESTLY think that Stoops isn't holding off on some guys for now to see if we get higher rated flips from other schools, then you're an IDIOT. If you are HONESTLY posting idiotic things that you have no validity to back it up in regards to recruiting then you're an IDIOT.




I'm pretty sure that about clears it up.

 

[TheBlueMax]

Nice analysis, but I'm not happy with all the recent negative news. I'm going to reserve judgment until after I hear from Stoops and see who we sign. The real test comes on the field. I do not share your enthusiasm, however, since signing 15 (as of now) is a bit of a red flag to me and having so many decommit is also a bit discouraging. And yes, 49th is pretty awful when most of the SEC is considerably higher. Translated, on face value at least, we are not progressing and in fact one could say we're falling farther behind. As in basketball, if we were not getting the cream like we do, we would be hard pressed to compete for championships every year. Somehow, some way, we need to find a way to win games--that is a must to attract top talent. I am not going to sit back and look at this situation any longer with blue-tinted glasses. I am very disappointed in what I see so far--hoped for much better recruiting, but again will reserve final judgment for the days well into the future. Though the health of the program may be better than it looks, you have to admit it doesn't look very good right now.

 

[CharlestownCat]

I think the thing being overlooked by many is those 4* and highly rated 3* guys were being coached up the last 3 years, and developing their bodies. This year they should be poised to take that experience and translate it to big wins on the field.

La-Lafayette - W
South Carolina - W
Florida - Toss Up
Missouri - W
EKU - W
Auburn - L
Miss St - W
UT - W
UGA - L
Vandy - W
Charlotte - W
UL - W

Call me crazy, but I think 9-10 wins is out of the question by any means.

 

[BigBluePhantom]

Originally posted by TheBlueMax:
Nice analysis, but I'm not happy with all the recent negative news. I'm going to reserve judgment until after I hear from Stoops and see who we sign. The real test comes on the field. I do not share your enthusiasm, however, since signing 15 (as of now) is a bit of a red flag to me and having so many decommit is also a bit discouraging. And yes, 49th is pretty awful when most of the SEC is considerably higher. Translated, on face value at least, we are not progressing and in fact one could say we're falling farther behind. As in basketball, if we were not getting the cream like we do, we would be hard pressed to compete for championships every year. Somehow, some way, we need to find a way to win games--that is a must to attract top talent. I am not going to sit back and look at this situation any longer with blue-tinted glasses. I am very disappointed in what I see so far--hoped for much better recruiting, but again will reserve final judgment for the days well into the future. Though the health of the program may be better than it looks, you have to admit it doesn't look very good right now.

If you really think there is any chance that we just sign 15 then please see the post just above yours. If not, please put away your red flag. We are absolutely progressing. Do you remember those 5 straight bowl games we went to? Even with just 15, this class is better than the ones that resulted in those bowl games. The decommits are not welcome news but they are representative of what could have been. Our early success along with some extreme recruiting had us poised to sign the best class in the history of the school. Had we pulled out the games against Florida and UofL, we very well may have kept most of those guys on campus. We were so close but it didn't happen. We still have a very good class, better than we have traditionally had. Now the good news. We can be in the same postion next year, maybe even better. If we can translate our recent recruitung success into 6 or 7 wins next year, we will likely retain a recruiting class that is better than one that almost was this year. Even if we don;t, we are still on the right path. It will just take longer than any of us want to wait.

 

[jauk11]

Originally posted by Ky grandpa:
Thank you Erick for pointing that out maybe it will save some lives. lol
Some are already jumping off the bridge's.lol
Go BB

I'm not sure we wouldn't be better off if we gave a few of them a push, LOL.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

A recruiting class can be rated many ways, star rating, the numbers method and filling needs method. In my opinion, the filling needs method is a much better way to determine how successful a class is. If you need OL, but sign only 2, but manage to sign 6 WR, 2 RB and 4 LB, that isn't a successful class because you didn't meet your needs. I don't pretend to know what UK's needs in this class are, but from watching them play I would say OL, DL and LB. QB, RB, WR aren't that big of a need in this class. If UK addressed those 3 areas in this class it is a good class regardless of where it is ranked by Rivals or any other service, but on the flip side if they didn't it isn't a good class regardless of where Rivals ranks them. Recruiting is all about filling your needs, a high ranking class is reason for bragging and swelling your chest but it does't help your team.

 

[kats23]

The talent coming in is better than we've had and that's the good news. Short term, it doesn't hurt UK but to compete in the SEC, UK needs depth. Not just depth, but quality depth. Building a framework of a program requires frontline talent but also solid backups. That's what it looked like UK was doing a few weeks ago with this class. You can't argue with what Stoops is doing here at UK but it's why this upcoming season is pivotal in continuing success at UK. Winning will bring the recruits and depth along with it. You can take a short class with good players for one year as long as UK can come back the following year and sign 20 plus it won't be a huge hit. But you have to sign 20 plus solid football players. If nothing else, the last 3 classes has shown how underwhelmed UK was in SEC talented players and how difficult building a program is.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

The issue I have with undersigning, and UGA has been quitly of this in the past is this. When you undersign in one class, it makes it important that you fill those spots in the next class. Richt has been guilty of undersigning in the past, in 2012 we had undersigned 4 classes in a row, we played the season with 68 scholarshipped players, 2 of them were long snappers and 3 kickers plus 6-7 kids who redshirted, so we played the season with basically 55 position players, we had scholarships that weren't used because we didn't have enough walkons to give them to. That happened because as signing day approached,we had room for 5 kids, we had 5 offers out and a couple of years we missed on all 5 and only got 1 the other years. Then we had the kids who got in trouble and were dismissed. I think he has finally realized we aren't going to land every target on signing day and we have more offers out than spaces and take first come as signing day gets closer. I don't know which way Stoops leans on offers, but to me its better to have more offers out than you got spaces because you aren't going to get all your targets if you are Bama or UK.

 

[dorkmeister]

A lot of people, in this thread, are actually looking at this in the correct way. I also like to look at it in a manor that, are we bringing in players who will be better in 4 years than the players we are losing. Bud is going to be hard to say we will be better than him but, almost every other spot I think this class will be better than the Srs who are leaving overall. I think we are reloading for lack of a better word and this class is going to be a really good class in compared to what we lose, in 4 years.

Nice to have sanity!!!