Guards win championships

[CatChow]

A trend that I've picked up on (and I'm sure others have too), is that the team with the best backcourt usually wins the championship. Bad guard play = no championship. Our team has the best backcourt in the country, and it is miles ahead of everyone else's backcourt.

 

[Poetax]

A trend that I've picked up on (and I'm sure others have too), is that the team with the best backcourt usually wins the championship. Bad guard play = no championship. Our team has the best backcourt in the country, and it is miles ahead of everyone else's backcourt.

We might have been the exception in 2012, but Uconn, ul, and even dook to an extent all had great backcourt players.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I don't know if I agree that it's the best backcourt that usually wins, but yeah you need at least i'd say a Top 5 backcourt, combined with a very good frontcourt to win it all.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

But of course. Bigs win you a ton of regular season games, but games in March usually come down to guard play.

Some recent examples: UK beating OSU in 2011 (basically rode B Knight to the FInal Four)

UCONN winning it all in 2011 and 2014

Louisville in 2013

Etc, etc

 

[CatChow]

Probably the best example of this was UCONN in 2014 and 2011. They wouldn't have won without Kemba, and in 2014 the Napier-Boatright backcourt was easily one of the top backcourts in the tournament.

 

[bigbluelou]

Frustrating thing is we HAD the guards to pull it off last year. Just didn't get the right ones in at the right time.

And that in NO way is a shot at the Twins. Loved those guys.

 

[Cats192]

While I agree we have great guards, and that that fact will go a long way in our title aspirations...I disagree with the basic premise.

Transcendent players win championships. Anthony Davis says hello. Teague and Lamb played great all tourney. Lamb had a great championship game. But EVERYTHING started with Anthony Davis. Carmelo Anthony took Syracuse to their one championship.

Great teams win championships. Look at those Florida teams. UNC's last few title teams. Certainly good guard play. But they also had good bigs. They also had good wings.

Basketball talking heads always use this phrase too. I just think it's way over done.

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Frustrating thing is we HAD the guards to pull it off last year. Just didn't get the right ones in at the right time.

And that in NO way is a shot at the Twins. Loved those guys.

I did too! Absolutely loved them and I'll defend them till I die.

But if Ulis had been in the game at the end against Wisconsin, we win. Plain and simple

 

[CatChow]

While I agree we have great guards, and that that fact will go a long way in our title aspirations...I disagree with the basic premise.

Transcendent players win championships. Anthony Davis says hello. Teague and Lamb played great all tourney. Lamb had a great championship game. But EVERYTHING started with Anthony Davis. Carmelo Anthony took Syracuse to their one championship.

Great teams win championships. Look at those Florida teams. UNC's last few title teams. Certainly good guard play. But they also had good bigs. They also had good wings.

Basketball talking heads always use this phrase too. I just think it's way over done.

Transcendent players do play a big part, especially in our 2012 run, but UCONN would have 2 titles if it wasn't for guards and flopping. UL would have 2. Siva and Russuckulous saved them that year. Duke would have lost if not for Allen and Jones. It's a BIG factor.

 

[EliteBlue]

Guards win games at crunch time. It's hard to roll to a title without really getting pushed at some point, especially final4 and title game, so you need those playmakers to go get points when you need them.

Can you do it depending on a big guy like KAT? Of course. But refs like to let those guys get beat to death in tight situations. Guards have the ball 70% of the time and are in a better position to create offense.

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

We are going to be the most talented team by far again this yr.
Difference is we win it all this yr.

 

[UK2005_24]

One reason we win it all is the CATS have someone no other team has.., Jamal Murray!!!

 

[mj2k10]

It's been a trend recently, but things like that tend to be true until they aren't. If you go back just a little further than say Duke in 2010, then you get a run of teams that were a lot less dependent on guard play. UNC in 09 and Kansas 08 had talent everywhere, and the leading scorers were in the frontcourt. Florida's title teams were keyed by a transcendent frontcourt. Good college backcourt, but the real studs were Noah, Horford, and Brewer. UNC 05 had talent everywhere, but again, a lot of the points were coming from the frontcourt. UConn in 04 had Okafor, and just generally one of the more intimidating frontcourt defenses in recent memory.

The point is that there is no magic formula. It's alchemy, not pure science. Results aren't predictable.

 

[Cats192]

But even to say guards do it in crunch time:

Did the big guy's defense keep you in the game until crunch time? Does the Big guy get the huge rebounds in crunch time? Does his defensive presence keep the other team from destroying you in crunch time?

 

[Rhavicc]

Something lost on the masses is the fact that in 2012, Teague was ridiculously good in the post-season, and Lamb drilled threes and hit free throws as always. When Davis scored 2 points in the title game, guard play was enormous for us.

 

[Cats192]

Something lost on the masses is the fact that in 2012, Teague was ridiculously good in the post-season, and Lamb drilled threes and hit free throws as always. When Davis scored 2 points in the title game, guard play was enormous for us.

Now, is that the same game where Davis had 16 rebounds and 6 blocks? Oh, and 5 assists and 3 steals?

Davis will always be the most valuable player on that team. To say the guards "won it" because they stepped up their offense really ignores how great Davis was on defense--which is what made him so special to begin with.

 

[IL Wildcat]

While I agree we have great guards, and that that fact will go a long way in our title aspirations...I disagree with the basic premise.

Transcendent players win championships. Anthony Davis says hello. Teague and Lamb played great all tourney. Lamb had a great championship game. But EVERYTHING started with Anthony Davis. Carmelo Anthony took Syracuse to their one championship.

Great teams win championships. Look at those Florida teams. UNC's last few title teams. Certainly good guard play. But they also had good bigs. They also had good wings.

Basketball talking heads always use this phrase too. I just think it's way over done.

It's a great discussion. I have to agree with the op though. Even in your post here you mention it, Teague and Lamb had great tournaments in that title run. I would say Teague may have been what moved that team from being very good to great. His tournament play was very elevated from his regular season play. His 3pt shooting in that tournament was phenomenal. And Doron Lamb may be the most underrated player Calipari has had. No, he didn't have great athleticism, but he's the best shooter under Calipari at UK, in my opinion. And he also had a great mid-range game, coming off that curl and into the lane, he was automatic. I would also add Miller into the mix, with his 3pt shooting and ball handling ability late in his senior year. Yes, we had great interior players- Jones, Davis, and MKG, but I agree that great guard play, at least in the college game, is what wins championships.

And I also agree that this is why we should be very optimistic this year. Jamal Murray alone would be enough to be giddy, but with Ulis playing so well and Briscoe being such a competitor and a bulldog, there are good reasons to be excited. And it's not like the interior is filled with scrubs. Labissiere is projected #1 in the NBA draft, Poythress is a beast when he's at full strength and it appears he's getting close, and Lee is a guy who we all likely undervalue because he's been waiting his turn. But he would be a dominant piece for any team, and he may be coming off our bench. Add in a more-skilled-than-expected Humphries and the frontcourt is in good hands. Even if the frontcourt takes a little while to get its legs, the backcourt will win a bunch of games. And when the Dance rolls around, these guards will be the reason UK could make a deep run.

 

[BlueSince92]

Agree CatChow and this has been on my mind for a while. Made more obvious by BW game. We have considerably more guard firepower than last year. A lot of it's raw, but not EJ raw. Come about January we could be looking like the 97 squad with another gear, which is an insane possibility. Insane. I should be slapped for even thinking about it. But it does look like a possibility.

 

[Hoskins91]

But of course. Bigs win you a ton of regular season games, but games in March usually come down to guard play.

Some recent examples: UK beating OSU in 2011 (basically rode B Knight to the FInal Four)

UCONN winning it all in 2011 and 2014

Louisville in 2013

Etc, etc

Beating OSU isn't a good example. People remember Knight's game winner but forget he really didn't play all that well in that game otherwise. Liggins and Harrellson were the MVP's of that game.

 

[BlueCat43]

Probably the best example of this was UCONN in 2014 and 2011. They wouldn't have won without Kemba, and in 2014 the Napier-Boatright backcourt was easily one of the top backcourts in the tournament.

I still have nightmares about those three guards!

 

[Hoskins91]

Oversimplifying things pretty significantly. The best way to ensure winning is to have a team that doesn't rely on one or two people too much, and to be a little lucky.

 

[ganner918]

We might have been the exception in 2012, but Uconn, ul, and even dook to an extent all had great backcourt players.

We were a balanced squad and our best player was a big man, but we had really good college guards that year. In the tournament, Teague averaged 5 assists to 2.1 turnovers and Lamb scored 16.5 ppg. North Carolina was our biggest challenger and their point guard got hurt, so I don't know what good, contender team had better guards than we did. Brad Beal and Damien Lillard were in college but not playing for contenders. Dion Waiters was at Syracuse and they were a 1 seed, but lost their starting Center. So while it might not be as simple as "look for the team with the best guards," you can probably say "look at the well balanced, contender teams, and usually the one with the best guards is going to win."

 

[Tampa_cat54]

Beating OSU isn't a good example. People remember Knight's game winner but forget he really didn't play all that well in that game otherwise. Liggins and Harrellson were the MVP's of that game.

My point was more that Kentucky was led all season long by a pretty dominant backcourt, while OSU was led by a dominant front court.

But more specifically in that game,

Our Backcourt tallied 37 points to their 27 points.

Our Frontcourt tallied 25 points (mostly Harrelson) while their's tallied 33.

 

[Cats192]

It's a great discussion. I have to agree with the op though. Even in your post here you mention it, Teague and Lamb had great tournaments in that title run. I would say Teague may have been what moved that team from being very good to great. His tournament play was very elevated from his regular season play. His 3pt shooting in that tournament was phenomenal. And Doron Lamb may be the most underrated player Calipari has had. No, he didn't have great athleticism, but he's the best shooter under Calipari at UK, in my opinion. And he also had a great mid-range game, coming off that curl and into the lane, he was automatic. I would also add Miller into the mix, with his 3pt shooting and ball handling ability late in his senior year. Yes, we had great interior players- Jones, Davis, and MKG, but I agree that great guard play, at least in the college game, is what wins championships.

But if you're going to say Teague took the team from good to great...where is the team without Davis? You act like, yeah Davis made us good, but TEAGUE tok us to that next level. There is no next level without the dominance of Davis.

If you had to replace Teague with an average PG or Davis with an average big...do you think we're better off with Teague and a Plumlee or Davis and a decent PG?

 

[Poetax]

We were a balanced squad and our best player was a big man, but we had really good college guards that year. In the tournament, Teague averaged 5 assists to 2.1 turnovers and Lamb scored 16.5 ppg. North Carolina was our biggest challenger and their point guard got hurt, so I don't know what good, contender team had better guards than we did. Brad Beal and Damien Lillard were in college but not playing for contenders. Dion Waiters was at Syracuse and they were a 1 seed, but lost their starting Center. So while it might not be as simple as "look for the team with the best guards," you can probably say "look at the well balanced, contender teams, and usually the one with the best guards is going to win."

That was my point too. Balance carried us not our backcourt.

 

[NCukcat62]

Yep. Every team that has won it in the past 10 years has outstanding guard play.

 

[dave5164]

Not only having Murray this year but also having Ulis, Briscoe, and Murray will make this team unstopable come March Madness!

 

[Kycatspaws]

 

[KWilt43atbuzz]

It wil be those three with Poy and Skal.
Matthews and Lee the 6th and 7th men.
We could probably win it all with just those 7.