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Formula to beat UK

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brian.mikeson

Sophomore
Aug 30, 2014
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Opposite of what most teams have done. Vandy did a great job doing it.

Most teams think you must sink back and surround our big guys. That's left open 3's for Booker, Aaron, Ulis, etc. in games they've won big.

But tonight when a shooter sent an entry pass into Dakari/Towns/Lee/Willie, the Vandy bigs allowed them to get ball and just played between our post guy and the basket while the guard stayed on the shooter and didn't collapse to help on our big guy.

That leaves Dakari/Towns/Lee/Willie to score one on one (Vandy's weakside didn't help on entry; just stayed on their man opposite the basket to limit offensive rebound). Sorry, those guys just are NOT good at scoring while contested within 3 feet. They don't "SHOOT" the ball, they sort of THROW it at the basket and seem to hope it bangs in.

I'd love to see a hit/miss chart of those 4 big guys for this game (and previous ones too -- especially Buffalo, Columbia, Ole Miss, A&M).

Oh...and I left out: be freakin' unconscious from 3; but of course we know that's somehow a GIVEN when SEC teams play us at Rupp.
 
Vandy lost...

and we missed ton of free throw.

Let's not over analyze this game.

This post was edited on 1/20 11:27 PM by JohnBlue_
 
The play that will destroy that is the one when dakari caught it in post and Lee set the high screen for lyles to cut to the basket. Problem solved. Just have to pass better in the post.
 
Vandy had the luxury of being nearly as big as us in the post and their freshman center is very talented and athletic.

However, if I am a team with a decent size and athleticism down low that would definitely be my strategy going forward. No collapse on defense made it hard on our freshman guards.
 
Only post player with a legit post up game is kat, but he's always in foul trouble seems like. It's a good strategy though, make Johnson, wcs, & lee beat you their back to the basket. Add careless turnovers that lead to easy open jumpers & you have a chance. This is why we need to come out & throat stomp lesser opponents & take their will from tip off.
 
There's no reason for other teams to help on our Bigs. None of them had any skill around the basket except Dakari, and he can't elevate. How many shots did he miss tonight?
 
You have nailed it OP.

Our Bigs have an extremely hard time scoring on post moves and Stallings just gave our opponents the best way to play us. it's not just Dakari, Towns and WCS also rarely score on pure post moves. It the one area that gives me pause when we play better competition in the NCAA Tournament if it doesn't improve.
 
Our interior passing and defense was not close to the level that it was against Alabama. That is your formula right there.
 
The "formula to beat UK" seems to change every couple of weeks.

The constant- hit a bunch of 3s and hope we're sleepwalking.
 
I LOVE the points about having guys CUT to the basket when our bigs get it on the block. As bad as they are at shooting, I don't think they're terrible passers.

Did we ever have anyone cut into the lane tonight after an entry pass?
 
We all love to over analyze each game when we have a tough or close game. I understand Coach Cal tonight thinking with our big 3 with WCS, Lyles, and Towns we dominate underneath just like we did vs. Mizz and Bama. The fans that are saying how Vandy played us tonight if our bigs make the play underneath on a layup or a pass back out for a 3 then we have no problems. Tonight the bigs wasn't playing well which then makes us look like we did tonight. Cal has been working hard on the bigs finishing plays at basket either with a dunk, nice pass, or pass back out for a 3 with Booker, Ullis, and Harrisons. Just wasn't working tonight and I am sure we will here about from Cal on the post-game show.
 
Originally posted by wcc31:
The "formula to beat UK" seems to change every couple of weeks.

The constant- hit a bunch of 3s and hope we're sleepwalking.
Click to expand...
Getting tired of reading these threads every week. It's not some magical formula. It's like with any other game, shoot really well and hope the other team can't make anything.
 
Seems to me the formula is to play with more effort than our guys. Because that is what happened tonight, and against Ole Miss, and against A&M.
 
Wishful thinking but there is no formula to beat Kentucky. Kentucky will have to beat themselves and thats the only way they will lose.
 
Originally posted by FtWorthCat:
Seems to me the formula is to play with more effort than our guys. Because that is what happened tonight, and against Ole Miss, and against A&M.

3-0 against mentioned teams
Click to expand...
 
You have to admit our bigs are weak with the ball and have a lot of trouble finishing at the rim unless it's a dunk. They just don't have great post moves and haven't improved much, if any, in that respect since November. Frankly, I just don't get it.
 
The best chance teams have had all season is to be crappy enough that UK doesn't take you seriously. Every one of the close games have been against some of the worst teams they have faced. If you could down play your team leading up to the UK game then turn it on in the second half you might stand a chance.
 
This post is stupid. Very stupid. Our bigs (Johnson and towns especially) destroy their guys one on one (usually). Tonight it was a different case

EDIT: add lyles to that list, he had a really rough game. First ime ive seen that happen this season

This post was edited on 1/20 11:32 PM by rhstoess
 
Originally posted by brian.mikeson:
Opposite of what most teams have done. Vandy did a great job doing it.

Most teams think you must sink back and surround our big guys. That's left open 3's for Booker, Aaron, Ulis, etc. in games they've won big.

But tonight when a shooter sent an entry pass into Dakari/Towns/Lee/Willie, the Vandy bigs allowed them to get ball and just played between our post guy and the basket while the guard stayed on the shooter and didn't collapse to help on our big guy.

That leaves Dakari/Towns/Lee/Willie to score one on one (Vandy's weakside didn't help on entry; just stayed on their man opposite the basket to limit offensive rebound). Sorry, those guys just are NOT good at scoring while contested within 3 feet. They don't "SHOOT" the ball, they sort of THROW it at the basket and seem to hope it bangs in.

I'd love to see a hit/miss chart of those 4 big guys for this game (and previous ones too -- especially Buffalo, Columbia, Ole Miss, A&M).

Oh...and I left out: be freakin' unconscious from 3; but of course we know that's somehow a GIVEN when SEC teams play us at Rupp.
Click to expand...
Formula didn't work, but I agree with the observation about how Vandy defended us. Our bigs lack offense.
 
Originally posted by rhstoess:
This post is stupid. Very stupid. Our bigs (Johnson and towns especially) destroy their guys one on one (usually). Tonight it was a different case

EDIT: add lyles to that list, he had a really rough game. First ime ive seen that happen this season

This post was edited on 1/20 11:32 PM by rhstoess
Click to expand...
No, our bigs are good, but they definitely have their weaknesses. Dakari is very limited athletically. In my life, I've never seen a 7 footer get his shot blocked so often. He also loses the ball far too often, Willie is the exact opposite. He's a freak athlete that dominates on defense, but has few post moves, though he is the one player improving his post game. Towns takes WAY too many off balance shots. He just heaves it towards the rim far too often. I love our guys and they're damn good. They just have some weaknesses.
 
Originally posted by SDcatfan13:

Originally posted by wcc31:
The "formula to beat UK" seems to change every couple of weeks.

The constant- hit a bunch of 3s and hope we're sleepwalking.
Click to expand...
Getting tired of reading these threads every week. It's not some magical formula. It's like with any other game, shoot really well and hope the other team can't make anything.
Click to expand...
The OP had a much better take than your weak sauce which was absolutely nothing just that your tired of the team being critiqued. Well guess what, the OP made an excellent observation and post. Our bigs tonight were terrible and softer than charmin on the offensive end. Not one of our bigs has a true post up style game and if they continue to play this flip the ball toward the basket and hope it goes in strategy it will only be a matter of time before we go down. We were in a one possesion game with four minutes to go in the game tonight against a horrible vandy team who is now 1-4 in conference.
 
Originally posted by #1Wildcatfan4life:

Originally posted by rhstoess:
This post is stupid. Very stupid. Our bigs (Johnson and towns especially) destroy their guys one on one (usually). Tonight it was a different case

EDIT: add lyles to that list, he had a really rough game. First ime ive seen that happen this season

This post was edited on 1/20 11:32 PM by rhstoess
Click to expand...
No, our bigs are good, but they definitely have their weaknesses. Dakari is very limited athletically. In my life, I've never seen a 7 footer get his shot blocked so often. He also loses the ball far too often, Willie is the exact opposite. He's a freak athlete that dominates on defense, but has few post moves, though he is the one player improving his post game. Towns takes WAY too many off balance shots. He just heaves it towards the rim far too often. I love our guys and they're damn good. They just have some weaknesses.
Click to expand...
True but when have you seen this happen to dakari when taken one on one?? the guy throws his fat elbows into the one guy and gets an easy layup. And the same for towns. And its true that he takes a lot of off balance shots, but most of those come from trying to force against double teams. Willie just doesnt have much a post game to begin with, and i think thats why we dont really go to him in the post. Tonight, our bigs were off, they werent making their moves effective. It happens, not as often as shooters can get cold, but it still happens
 
I think the OP made a great post. I'm just saying that the way to beat us evolves seemingly. Right now, our bigs are struggling. A few weeks ago it was our guards.
 
70 points against bama....65 in this one....5 point difference. of course bama had much more trouble scoring than vandy. This is a defensive team...phenomenal defense.....average offense. defense is where it's at for this UK team. the defense wasn't "phenomenal" tonight, but it was still damn good. i don't care if it's virginia, wisky, duke...it's a tall order to score against this defense. vandy did about as well as they could, and like the 17 teams before them...it wasn't enough.
 
Apparently the formula to beat UK is like the Colonel's secret recipe....
A mystery....
18-0 .......Bro!
 
Originally posted by wcc31:
The "formula to beat UK" seems to change every couple of weeks.

The constant- hit a bunch of 3s and hope we're sleepwalking.
Click to expand...
laugh.r191677.gif
 
If every college basketball team barring Kentucky was exactly the same, there may possibly be a "formula" to win against this team. The first key to having a formula to winning a game against UK, is somebody winning a game against UK. Don't take a page out of the book from a team that lost.
It does not take a genius to say "okay, we need to shoot the ball well. 3 pointers are better than 2 pointers. We're a better free throw team, so let's try to make this a contest at the line. Don't let them get open shots", that's all obvious.
A team has to play to their strengths, and against UK's weaknesses. So what are UK's weaknesses? We dunno, they change about every game. One night we'll get poor offensive post production, and another game we'll have solid post production. One night we may not be able to hit the broad side of the barn from 3 point land, another night, seemingly throwing it into the ocean. The best thing to do is just play to your strengths, and play hard, because there's no one set formula to beating a team in a sport like basketball, where the smallest things can affect the outcome of a game tremendously.
That's just how it is. No team is going to completely change their playing style for one game, not even the national title. They will always do what they do best. For Vandy, that's offense and 3 point shooting, and that wasn't enough. On to the next one.
 
We just aren't good at converting contested 2's, even around the basket. That likely isnt going to change. We make up for it with offensive rebounding, and recently we've been hitting our threes and freethrows. They shot 38% from the three point line and several of them were wide open. They didn't have a crazy shooting performance, we just got lost a little too often. The defense was hit or miss, and we had some guys struggle from the line that normally don't. Those two things change and this would be a 15 point win.

If i had to gamepan against us, I'd play one on one and emphasize hitting the glass on defense. Don't send help when our guards penetrate, force them to finish the play themselves. With the big guys it is a little tougher, because most teams just don't have the size to go one on one.
 
Your theory dies when you have post passing like you did at Alabama. The bigs play like they are 6'6 sometimes. Last night was one of those nights. The only way you will truly beat UK is be hot at 3 and/or have a very disinterested UK team . So far that hasn't even been enough but a couple teams have gotten very close.
 
Originally posted by #1Wildcatfan4life:
You have to admit our bigs are weak with the ball and have a lot of trouble finishing at the rim unless it's a dunk. They just don't have great post moves and haven't improved much, if any, in that respect since November. Frankly, I just don't get it.
Click to expand...
I'll give you a hint: They get fouled a lot and somehow the whistle doesn't blow.
 
There is no magic formula against this team. None. We've seen zones, matchup zones, man to man, double interior and leave the perimeter, push on the permiter and make the big guys win it (Vandy style). So far, while some have put a scare in us, none of them have worked.

You have to outplay KY. We get outshot, out-rebounded and we still win.

The formula is simply that we have to play real bad and you have to play your best game. Then you have a real chance of beating us.
 
Originally posted by ukbob:
There is no magic formula against this team. None. We've seen zones, matchup zones, man to man, double interior and leave the perimeter, push on the permiter and make the big guys win it (Vandy style). So far, while some have put a scare in us, none of them have worked.

You have to outplay KY. We get outshot, out-rebounded and we still win.

The formula is simply that we have to play real bad and you have to play your best game. Then you have a real chance of beating us.
Click to expand...
This...and hope we miss all our FTs.
 
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