First opposing batter of Reds 2017 season . . .
- Thread starter Tskware
- Start date
If I were a Reds fan all my interest this year would be hoping for Votto to do something historic, hope Duvall holds or gains value and watch Amir Garrett (root for ROY).
They are bad.
They are bad.
What I don't get is running guys like Feldman and Bronson Freakin Arroyo, who is 40 years old out to the mound. If you are going to rebuild, then why are guys like Robert Stephenson in AAA or pitching in long relief?? Get the young guys out there and let them learn, it can hardly get worse.
Another year, still no Jesse Winker. If Cincinnati is all in going forward with Duvall, Hamilton & Schebler might be time he is in an organization who could use his talents now. So much money tied up between two injured players (Mesoraco,Bailey). I'll consider anything from them this year a bonus considering their injury history. I don't blame them for reasons beyond their control but the Reds for dishing out contracts when they have only given Cincinnati a few good seasons. Mesoraco just in 2014.
Finnegan has looked really good in the game tonight. He is a lock and a key piece to the rotation to build around. Very excited for the debut of Amir Garrett. Nick Senzel, doubtful it's going to be this year unless September roster expansions knowing the Reds speed of developing prospects but if his bat is as good as the hype, it will be much needed in this lineup. Haven't even heard anything about the Cuban IF Alfredo Rodriguez signed last summer for around $ 7 mill already. Other teams seem to be promoting these guys faster.
I don't see Arroyo in the rotation when DeSclafani comes back. Hell, why not Cody Reed in the rotation now so the sooner he develops at the MLB level the better. Last year was a disaster but he is hardly the 1st pitcher to struggle in their 1st stint in MLB. As mentioned above, can't get any worse. In a season with low expectations, just not a fan of delaying the future of prospects when opportunity presents itself for someone like Stephenson who is a high rated SP prospect in the bullpen for veteran players. Arroyo/Feldman can help with the growing pains, mentor young pitchers but can do that from the bullpen.
Finnegan has looked really good in the game tonight. He is a lock and a key piece to the rotation to build around. Very excited for the debut of Amir Garrett. Nick Senzel, doubtful it's going to be this year unless September roster expansions knowing the Reds speed of developing prospects but if his bat is as good as the hype, it will be much needed in this lineup. Haven't even heard anything about the Cuban IF Alfredo Rodriguez signed last summer for around $ 7 mill already. Other teams seem to be promoting these guys faster.
I don't see Arroyo in the rotation when DeSclafani comes back. Hell, why not Cody Reed in the rotation now so the sooner he develops at the MLB level the better. Last year was a disaster but he is hardly the 1st pitcher to struggle in their 1st stint in MLB. As mentioned above, can't get any worse. In a season with low expectations, just not a fan of delaying the future of prospects when opportunity presents itself for someone like Stephenson who is a high rated SP prospect in the bullpen for veteran players. Arroyo/Feldman can help with the growing pains, mentor young pitchers but can do that from the bullpen.
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Lorenzen hit a PH bomb - dude is jacked.
Duvall is a player - good to see, he was damn good growing up as well.
Still going to be rough season. SP is going to end up killing them for sure.
Duvall is a player - good to see, he was damn good growing up as well.
Still going to be rough season. SP is going to end up killing them for sure.
Amir Garrett with an impressive debut tonight at St. Louis. Common Knowledge by now that he was a 4-star Basketball Recruit on St. John's when they played UK in our title season. The optimistic side of me is hoping they are building off that strong 2nd half of last season. Bullpen has been great to start. Leaps and bounds over last year's historically worst bullpen statistically. I think being in the NL and a change of scenery for Drew Storen with opportunities for saves is great for him and a steal for the Reds. If out of contention like we all expect, Drew could be a nice trade piece.
Still though for me, I can't buy in on the Reds unless they are still in the race after the All-Star Break. Seen too many times they start off the year hot going into June only too flame out. Offense is my biggest concern. Votto/Duvall are fine. Once Mesoraco returns it could be a potent lineup if they are hitting close to their potential. Then again, what line up isn't good when hitting on all cylinders. Barring no major trades, realistically a year or two off still. Reds front office said when the rebuild 1st started that the goal was to be competitive buy '18. Being competitive is the best we can ask for knowing Reds management.
Still though for me, I can't buy in on the Reds unless they are still in the race after the All-Star Break. Seen too many times they start off the year hot going into June only too flame out. Offense is my biggest concern. Votto/Duvall are fine. Once Mesoraco returns it could be a potent lineup if they are hitting close to their potential. Then again, what line up isn't good when hitting on all cylinders. Barring no major trades, realistically a year or two off still. Reds front office said when the rebuild 1st started that the goal was to be competitive buy '18. Being competitive is the best we can ask for knowing Reds management.
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Brian Price surprised me last night. When Lorenzon rolled through the 7th, I did not understand why he didn't let him hit in the 8th, he had just hit a PH homer the day before. But he made a double switch with Suarez, meaning Iglesias got to pitch two innings, instead of Lorenzon, and mowed the Cards down in the 8th and 9th for the save. Possibly he knows more about managing than I do??
My beef has and always will be with the front office. Can only win with the product given on the field. The Reds have been fair with Bryan Price telling him that they are evaluating his job on more than just W-L record. I do know that he is a good pitching coach. Price was named Major League Coach of the Year in '07. Man has had terrible luck managing through injury riddled seasons and a fire sale lasting multiple seasons. Took almost every building block he had except Votto. We'll see how he does if he gets the chance to manage this young talent through their development stages. I would like for him to succeed here.
After a series of bonehead moves and overpaying the wrong players.The "small market" excuse only goes so far with me. Many other teams have thrived under those conditions. I can name more than one example. KC made back to back WS Appearances and finally won after plucking Cueto from us. The Marlins have won 2, Arizona 1 title since the last Reds WS Crown.
After a series of bonehead moves and overpaying the wrong players.The "small market" excuse only goes so far with me. Many other teams have thrived under those conditions. I can name more than one example. KC made back to back WS Appearances and finally won after plucking Cueto from us. The Marlins have won 2, Arizona 1 title since the last Reds WS Crown.
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Reds losing, but Bronson Arroyo not looking horrible. As I type that he just gives up a donger. What I don't understand is if they want him on the roster to help mentor the young guys, why isn't he a spot starter and primarily a long reliever to come in if one of the rookies hits a bad day. I think he could easily come in from the bullpen and pitch 2-3 effective innings. Beyond that hitters will adjust on their second time around with him. That being said, I am glad to see him back and healthy. He never missed a start when he was with the Reds, it has been hurt pretty much the entire time after he was traded.
Totally with you on it being good to see a fan favorite back in uniform but in the bullpen is where he should be. I'm pretty sure Arroyo is first to get bumped when DeSclafani returns from the DL. It will be a short lived stint with the SP injuries. In fact, I did not even have it mind that he would have a chance at the rotation coming out of Spring Training. Someone else is getting bumped to when Homer returns.
In the mean time, while he's in the rotation, he will take some starts to get his pitch count up and feet underneath him. He's missed nearly to 3 years. It would be nice though if he could become a Jamie Moyer caliber pitcher who stayed effective with age. Never had overpowering stuff. I always believed in his younger days he could be the kind of pitcher that could last beyond 40. Breaking balls still looked sharp at times today.
Not fond of Feldman starting either as he can mentor from the bullpen. Guys like Stephenson, Reed, Lorenzen, Peralta & Iglesias all have starting experience. I believe the SP experiment is over for Iglesias given his durability and often getting injured. Good stuff for a closer. Not sure if it's over for Lorenzen or not. Seems to found his niche as a set up and occasional long-relief man. Mentioned in the game that Price is trying to get Reed back in and was scheduled to start vs Pittsburgh. The reasons for it being pushed back was 4 BB in 2 innings of work. Trying to build his confidence up.
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Happy to see the Reds put runs up on the board today on the road at St. Louis of all places. Nice that they got to their Ace Carlos Martinez early on. Feldman better than the Opening Day clunker. Enjoy 1st on top of the NL Central while it lasts. Can't be bought in after one good week. A long season.
I think the fact remains that the Reds will suck if they try to play a traditional style of ball (starters go 6-7 and then hit the pen)...but if they stick to pulling these young starters upon first sign of danger (even if its the 3rd inning) and let their deep bullpen come in and try to put the fire out, they may have something.
Iglesias, Reed, Lorenzen have all been starters - so they may be able to keep up the high # of innings.
Stay unconventional. Hope they keep it up - closest MLB team to go see.
Billy Hamilton has gotten off to a good start. Not surprising because when healthy, from mid-June last year, he really started turning it around once he began working with Votto & BP. He & Peraza could get on base and create a lot of RBIs for one of baseball's best overall hitters in Joey Votto. They'll have to pitch instead of an intentional BB to him if those two are on base.
The last 6 games, I bet against the Reds. Lost 5. Their early streak has hit me (down about $1000) hard. But I love my Redlegs.
So I figure: if I continue to bet against them, over 162 games it will cost me about $20 grand to win our division. I'm starting a Go Fund Me page.
So I figure: if I continue to bet against them, over 162 games it will cost me about $20 grand to win our division. I'm starting a Go Fund Me page.
Apparently Winker headed back down after a brief 2 game stint. Should just send Patrick Kivlehan down. Never heard of him before this year. It's one thing to use the excuse for every day at bats but wonder when they will determine when he's MLB ready for good? I think he is now.
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Kivlehan had the big 3 run double yesterday . This team really needs Mesaraco to come back healthy. Arroyo has looked pretty good in last 2 starts. Hamilton needs to be more
patient at the plate and try to work a few walks. Votto has been on fire lately. Duvall will come. Cozart has been great as has Suarez. If Mesaraco comes back it will be an impressive lineup.
Arroyo is there to eat innings...his results aren't really a big deal as long as he goes deep and tries to get the bp some rest.
I'm aware what Kivlehan did yesterday, it was nice! I watched the game as I do all games. I've been following the rest of the players enough all season to form my own opinion on the ball club. His double isn't any different that what Jesse Winker (our #2 overall hitting prospect) with his clutch double as his 1st career hit to beat Milwaukee last weekend. 1 big hit either way doesn't negate my opinion wanting Jesse Winker called up who has all the accolades of being a solid MLB player someday. Kivlehan is getting his chance now and did so last year with 2 teams over a better prospect unlike Jesse who had just those 2 games. I don't think Patrick is an everyday player here outside of a spot start or a pinch hitter. He's had more chances at the MLB level than Winker. Gennett got the call in RF over Kivlehan and saw how that went.
Reds fans need to temper their expectations on Mesoraco. I'm very sure the Reds are going to be extremely cautious getting him acclimated to the line up. Outside of his All-Star season, we've only seen 1 good season from him. He still has a lot to prove to me for that big contract he received. As much as I want Bronson to succeed, he doesn't stand to last in the rotation when Rookie Davis, Anthony DeSclafani & Homer Bailey return. We're in a full rebuild mode and a fire sale that I'm not sure is over. Arroyo was originally supposed to come out of the bullpen but was pressed into the starting rotation because of injuries. It is possible if he continues to pitch like the last 2 games they keep him in if they're still in contention. No one questions Joey Votto, one of the best overall hitters ever. His dismal start led to one of the best 2nd half batting averages in the history of the game for the remainder of the season.
I hope Suarez is for real but lets remember, last year his great April turned into a miserable May. I'm looking for him to stay consistent, give us 20 HRs again and stay above .270. Same with Cozart, hot starts to begin the season. Never hit above .258 in any full season in the big leagues. Looking for more consistency. Cincinnati is likely out of it at the All-Star Break/Trade Deadline. As I said above, I've seen this same song and dance before. Great starts to the season but can't get myself fooled again by the Reds unless they're in contention after the All-Star Break. Getting rid of established/productive MLB Players just burns a hole in the Reds pocket and they have been trying to trade Zack since last year. My money is on the Reds finally do so this year. Almost happened this past winter to Seattle. May be no better time than now while he's hot and his stock is up. Should they stay in contention, obviously all that changes. Room will need to be made soon for the #1 hitting prospect, Nick Senzel. Corner infielder and Suarez/Peraza could easily slide back to their natural position of SS. I haven't been much on Dilson Herrera based on what I saw 2 years with the Mets but it is only fair he at least gets a call up during a rebuild whether or not it comes in September roster expansions. Neither Winker or Herrera got roster call ups in September last year. Traded Jay Bruce for Dilson. Could have gotten more for Bruce IMO.
My original thoughts were Hamilton having a big year hitting building off from last June through the point he got shut down. Fielding is not question. Hamilton/Peraza on base hitting in front of Votto could wreak on the base paths, creating a lot of RBI opportunities for Votto. Not worried about Duvall. He may never bat .300. I don't know, still early in his career but a lot of raw power hitters put up big numbers without hitting for a high average. Schebler, on the other hand I need to see more out of instead of an occasional Home Run.
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I think it's hilarious the excuse I heard during tonight's game for not having activated Mesoraco off the DL. Don't want to give back a Rule 5 draft pick Stuart Turner. Mesoraco is a former All-Star and the 3rd highest paid player on the team. You have Tucker Barnhart and a top catching prospect in Tyler Stephenson a AA off of to a decent start. Turner never made it past AA at age 25 until the Reds added him to the roster. Makes you wonder why the Twins hadn't advanced him prior if he is so good. Work something out in a trade if their high on him since they have to offer him back to MIN. Carrying 3 catchers doesn't happen often, they've done it before though with Ross, LaRue & Valentin.. The Twins haven't had a good catcher since Joe Mauer moved to 1B. Cincinnati is feeding the line of wanting to get Devin more at bats. That hip is healthy if anyone saw that diving play he made running down the line and flipped covering 3rd base. A decision has to be made by Friday on him.
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Can't believe Price just kept Garrett in their struggling knowing it's not his night. Sometimes young guys need to learn to pitch out of a funk but this was a little excessive, it was clearly not his night. Don't think it was fair to Amir. 10 runs, 9 ER. Managed to get back within 2 and then the Brewers go up big again. Wonder how long this unconventional style of bullpen use will last before everyone's arms are worn out bailing out the starters. Already sending guys back a to Louisville after one game to recall fresh arms.
Not really following your line of thinking. On one hand, you are criticizing Price for leaving Amir in too long; on the other hand, you are complaining that the starters aren't working enough innings and wearing out the bullpen. You see how the former might be causally related to the latter, right?
Keep in mind, you are criticizing a former pitching coach. I can't remember the game or the pitcher, but I was listening to Thom and Jeff calling one of the middle innings of a game last week. The pitcher had allowed a run to be scored, and had walked multiple batters in the inning. Thom and Jeff let it be known that they were dumbfounded when Price visited the mound and instead of making a pitching change, left the starter in. But sure enough, the starter coaxed the next batter into an inning-ending double play.
When you go against conventional wisdom and it backfires, you will get called out every time. But you won't necessarily be praised when it succeeds. You think Thom and Jeff said, "well, I guess Price knew what he was doing" or "good decision to leave him in" or threw any praise Price's way after the starter made it out of the inning? Nope. But they would have been very vocal if the starter had not gotten out of the inning.
Price is trying to build the confidence of the young starters and get more out of them, and is doing what he can to make this team compete. I have been impressed with the way this team has battled this year, they definitely aren't laying down and accepting the dire preseason predictions. That comes from the top down. Price is doing his job.
Let me make my "line of thinking" clear for you. What was their to be gained by keeping Amir Garrett in their so long while he was clearly getting smoked for 10 runs, 9 ER? You say confidence. Amir Garrett is a confident young man and I'm sure he'll bounce back. We had a 2 run ball game and are trying to stay in contention in the division. A line has to be drawn as some point. 6 or 7 runs allowed for a young pitcher is reasonable to let them work through the funk but anything after that is excessive for anyone. Leaving Garrett in the game cost any come back last night when the Reds put up some runs. However an example of someone who it did shake them up, Michael Lorenzen. I can remember him getting down on himself in his rookie season when he was left out there against the Padres to get smoked for 7 runs. Had to go back to AAA for more development. Hasn't started since the end of the season. It's working now because we're just in April but lets see how the use of our bullpen lasts through the dog days of summer.
I do not think "complaining" about starting pitching length and overworking the bullpen is irrational on my part. You don't see at all how both of these could be serious issues down the road for the Reds as the season progresses or more focused on putting me on blast for my opinion? If they weren't dead set on trading everyone off and being cheap, you could keep more quality starting pitching without burning up the bullpen. I sure hope the team is in a pennant race come September. I don't want fatigue being the reason we did not make it. We're already seeing the bus rides and flights to and from Louisville taking place because the SP and bullpen is either injured, not getting the job done or being overworked. Bonilla just sent back down Sunday for fresh arms. With so many young starters coming up, people will begin to skip starts and get shut down to preserve them down the road. Our best hope is for DeSclafani & Bailey to return and stay healthy this year. I also don't want to see pitchers getting hurt going back and forth from the bullpen to the starting rotation. Has ruined a number of players careers. Danny Graves was never quite the same pitcher after the Reds experiment with him as an SP. I know it's different management as well as ownership. Just an example. Bryan Price being a pitching coach does not mean that he is above being wrong. He is not just a pitching coach anymore, a manager. Fans blasted his usage of Gennett in RF with that blunder instead of playing a Outfield prospect (Phil Ervin) who has been overlooked for awhile. The Reds have been fair with Price telling him they evaluate his job at the end of each season on more than just the W-L record. If you read one of my posts above, I said I am for the guy to succeed here. Even said in a previous post he can only win with the quality of the product on field. I can't speak for Thom & Jeff. I know Jeff played the game and can offer insight so I don't block out what he & Welsh say.
Not sure where you are going with your post blasting me. If you think my post is stupid and disagree, that's one thing. I may not always have a bright outlook on the Reds but believe me, I am not alone in being frustrated. Not just directed at anyone specifically but for anyone here who wants question my fan hood of the Cincinnati Reds as if I'm a drive-by troll being negative, that is something I do not appreciate at all because I "complain" about them. I am a passionate, die hard Reds fan my whole life. I grew up watching the 1990 team go wire to wire. I remained a fan ever since through the 100 loss seasons, .300 baseball teams. Get so worked up with insomnia for days being upset, even when they lost in the 2000 tie breaker and later in the NLDS each time as well as the Wildcard loss under Baker when I thought they were back. My house is filled with more Reds merchandise than Kentucky stuff. My vacations are always centered around going to Cincinnati and spending my hard earned money going to watch them play. All kids dream of what they wanted to be when they became adults, mine was to be a Cincinnati Red. Obviously that didn't happen. Went into the Air Force and I went well out of my way to catch everyone Reds game I could despite being on different sides of the country or world at times. One of things I was going to miss the most before I joined were the Reds because I didn't know when I'd ever get a chance to see them because the internet was not as big as it is now. I've always remained loyal to the Reds. I just get sick and tired of losing. Any rational fan would be after so much losing and heart break of seeing our beloved players get traded off. Been through the ups and downs regardless with the Reds my entire lifetime and reserve the right to criticized them. I love how hard the Reds are playing for themselves and their manager. I've given them praise when I seen it in this thread on the season. Even hopeful they were building off last season's strong 2nd half. There are a lot of odds stacked against them with injuries and youth right now. Even the Reds themselves thought this year was going to still be in rebuilding mode. Phil Castellini said they don't expect to be contenders until 2018. http://www.redreporter.com/2016/5/11/11657574/cincinnati-reds-links-world-series-2018 I'd love for them to be the '15 Astros and fool everyone early with their development. Time will tell.
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First, dude, chill. If you think I blasted you, you have not been around here much. That wasn't a blast, that was me pointing out that you have two discordant positions you are taking.
Let me make my point clear. You are complaining on one hand about leaving the starter in too long, and then on the other about using the bullpen too much. Price was trying to stretch out the starter to alleviate the burden on the bullpen. Price can't win, he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. He either goes to the bullpen too early, or left the starter in too long. You will have your choice of either argument any time the Reds lose, so it's always on Price.
I understand your point. Price gambled and lost. If he gambled and won (as he did in that prior game I referenced), it's a non-topic. However, let's say he pulled Garrett and put in a reliever. Let's say he pulled Garrett after he gave up 6 runs. That would mean we are getting into the bullpen at the start of the third inning. Our bullpen is having to work 7 innings. Price is hoping beyond all hope that Garrett can right the ship, settle down, and eat up some innings while keeping them in the game. It didn't work.
I don't question your fandom, and I'm not bashing or blasting. I'm telling you he is trying to make due with what he's got, and there's a lot of hard choices to make on a night like last night.
I started following the Reds in 1982, the year they lost 100 games. Everything was gravy after a season like that. Used to spend summer evenings on the back porch listening to Marty and Joe during my formative years. Truth be told, though, I have slacked off on my fandom over the years. I find it hard to watch baseball any more, the game is just too slow to keep my attention for long, and with 3 daughters in their teens, I don't have much time anyway. However, I've been keeping tabs this year and following them in the news, checking scores on my phone, and this team has me excited for the future. So they are actually pulling me in. I made a concerted effort to watch them last night, pulled up the game on my tablet just in time to watch Amir get rocked for 4 in the first. I turned it off after that. Maybe it's best I continue to keep it casual.
Let me make my point clear. You are complaining on one hand about leaving the starter in too long, and then on the other about using the bullpen too much. Price was trying to stretch out the starter to alleviate the burden on the bullpen. Price can't win, he's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. He either goes to the bullpen too early, or left the starter in too long. You will have your choice of either argument any time the Reds lose, so it's always on Price.
I understand your point. Price gambled and lost. If he gambled and won (as he did in that prior game I referenced), it's a non-topic. However, let's say he pulled Garrett and put in a reliever. Let's say he pulled Garrett after he gave up 6 runs. That would mean we are getting into the bullpen at the start of the third inning. Our bullpen is having to work 7 innings. Price is hoping beyond all hope that Garrett can right the ship, settle down, and eat up some innings while keeping them in the game. It didn't work.
I don't question your fandom, and I'm not bashing or blasting. I'm telling you he is trying to make due with what he's got, and there's a lot of hard choices to make on a night like last night.
I started following the Reds in 1982, the year they lost 100 games. Everything was gravy after a season like that. Used to spend summer evenings on the back porch listening to Marty and Joe during my formative years. Truth be told, though, I have slacked off on my fandom over the years. I find it hard to watch baseball any more, the game is just too slow to keep my attention for long, and with 3 daughters in their teens, I don't have much time anyway. However, I've been keeping tabs this year and following them in the news, checking scores on my phone, and this team has me excited for the future. So they are actually pulling me in. I made a concerted effort to watch them last night, pulled up the game on my tablet just in time to watch Amir get rocked for 4 in the first. I turned it off after that. Maybe it's best I continue to keep it casual.
Yeah, some days the starter has to hit his pitch count/inning goal to save the BP some innings. Probably the case with Garrett last night (among other). It's why Arroyo is a starter.
You can't complain about bullpen use and then complain about weak starting pitching getting pulled early enough.
This year is about player/talent management, not about winning games (sorry, they just aren't going to be good enough). Don't blow out any arms (starters or pen).
You can't complain about bullpen use and then complain about weak starting pitching getting pulled early enough.
This year is about player/talent management, not about winning games (sorry, they just aren't going to be good enough). Don't blow out any arms (starters or pen).
Haven't heard a logical excuse yet for leaving a young pitcher in to give up 10 runs, 9 ER last night unless you're trying to tank for the #1 pick. Should Price have left him in for 4 or 5 innings to save the bullpen and give up 15 runs? This was a 2 run ball game before Garrett got lit up. You may not question how last night went but I'm focused on more than just one game. There is a difference in a pitcher being smoked for 10 runs over giving up 6 or 7 which happens more often than 10. Had they jumped out 8-0 and the Reds and the ball game was never in reach, I can understand the part of Garrett logging innings but that was not the case. Only logged 3.1 innings while getting his pitch count up so he did get that much in. SP not many innings & Hernandez debut ate up innings out of the BP. Had to send Bonilla down after 1 game for Ariel Hernandez just so they could have fresh arms already here in April. He's now gone after 1 day for Barrett Astin.
I have watched all the games this year and if you read my point about bullpen usage, it referenced how it's been used all season. Be fair and take the time to re-read my post, it states that. Please don't misconstrue it to make it sound like it was only for last night. Different games this year certain guys have given up less runs and been yanked faster. Had the pen not been used so much to this point, pitchers already on the roster could have gotten the call in long relief. The point I'm trying to make above on SP being left in too long was if they are obviously getting hammered. I don't see how anyone thought that was fair to Garrett. Last night was a good reason to use the BP. As far as being overworked regarding the Starters, I will freely grant you that was terrible word choice on my part but you should get the gist of what I'm saying. Ineffectiveness is a better term. Last night was excessive and but scenario you had to use someone in long relief. I support managers leaving Starters in to eat innings in blowouts until it starts getting stupid to leave them in. I would never leave a pitcher in to give up 20 runs just to fill his pitch count or the bullpen's sake either way. Rookie Davis for instance in his debut gave up 4 runs and got lifted early using the bullpen for 6 innings. Didn't quite agree, especially with the rope Garrett got last night. My post above mentioned sometimes having to let a pitcher pitch through a funk but I thought giving up that many runs was a little excessive. 4 runs is reasonable unlike 10 is and would understand using him longer to find his groove. Had it not been used so much to this point pitchers already on the roster could have gotten the call. I think there should be some limit as far as damage control with runs given up so that you can minimize confidence issues with young guys. You never know what can be lost from a psychological standpoint with some guys. I'm not worried about Amir's confidence but any player is susceptible to lose confidence after getting rocked like that. Took Homer Bailey awhile after getting lit up a bunch and being sent to Louisville before he figured it out. In no way suggesting Garrett needs to go to Louisville after one poor start. My other posts here have advocated for getting the youth experience while it's in a rebuild.
We all know the Reds realistically are not going to contend all season. For now, while the Reds are in contention, there's no reason for them to not try and win while it lasts with these young guys. Despite it being a long season of 162 games, it will often come down to a game or 2 in the Division or Wild Card standing. The unconventional approach to BP usage is intriguing but my concern if this team gets fatigued by August with both Starters and the pen. Rookie Pitchers start to get shut down and skip starts. We need to get DeSclafani & Bailey back. Arroyo will get starts then for guys skipped over. Bronson starting now will pay dividends then as he will have built up arm strength. A rotation needs an experienced glue guy and Feldman fits the bill for now. If the bullpen holds up, I'm all for it and would love to eat crow. I'm not even trying to prove anyone wrong or say either way how it will work, just voicing my concerns. Anyone who knows me, I pin most of the blame for losses on the front office. They are responsible for the product given on the field that the manager has to deal with. As Bill Parcels said, "If I'm going to be asked to cook the meal, I'd like to be able to pick the groceries." I know small market factors but I've said my piece on that here before on how other teams with lesser pay roll have gotten far more out of what resources they have.
I have watched all the games this year and if you read my point about bullpen usage, it referenced how it's been used all season. Be fair and take the time to re-read my post, it states that. Please don't misconstrue it to make it sound like it was only for last night. Different games this year certain guys have given up less runs and been yanked faster. Had the pen not been used so much to this point, pitchers already on the roster could have gotten the call in long relief. The point I'm trying to make above on SP being left in too long was if they are obviously getting hammered. I don't see how anyone thought that was fair to Garrett. Last night was a good reason to use the BP. As far as being overworked regarding the Starters, I will freely grant you that was terrible word choice on my part but you should get the gist of what I'm saying. Ineffectiveness is a better term. Last night was excessive and but scenario you had to use someone in long relief. I support managers leaving Starters in to eat innings in blowouts until it starts getting stupid to leave them in. I would never leave a pitcher in to give up 20 runs just to fill his pitch count or the bullpen's sake either way. Rookie Davis for instance in his debut gave up 4 runs and got lifted early using the bullpen for 6 innings. Didn't quite agree, especially with the rope Garrett got last night. My post above mentioned sometimes having to let a pitcher pitch through a funk but I thought giving up that many runs was a little excessive. 4 runs is reasonable unlike 10 is and would understand using him longer to find his groove. Had it not been used so much to this point pitchers already on the roster could have gotten the call. I think there should be some limit as far as damage control with runs given up so that you can minimize confidence issues with young guys. You never know what can be lost from a psychological standpoint with some guys. I'm not worried about Amir's confidence but any player is susceptible to lose confidence after getting rocked like that. Took Homer Bailey awhile after getting lit up a bunch and being sent to Louisville before he figured it out. In no way suggesting Garrett needs to go to Louisville after one poor start. My other posts here have advocated for getting the youth experience while it's in a rebuild.
We all know the Reds realistically are not going to contend all season. For now, while the Reds are in contention, there's no reason for them to not try and win while it lasts with these young guys. Despite it being a long season of 162 games, it will often come down to a game or 2 in the Division or Wild Card standing. The unconventional approach to BP usage is intriguing but my concern if this team gets fatigued by August with both Starters and the pen. Rookie Pitchers start to get shut down and skip starts. We need to get DeSclafani & Bailey back. Arroyo will get starts then for guys skipped over. Bronson starting now will pay dividends then as he will have built up arm strength. A rotation needs an experienced glue guy and Feldman fits the bill for now. If the bullpen holds up, I'm all for it and would love to eat crow. I'm not even trying to prove anyone wrong or say either way how it will work, just voicing my concerns. Anyone who knows me, I pin most of the blame for losses on the front office. They are responsible for the product given on the field that the manager has to deal with. As Bill Parcels said, "If I'm going to be asked to cook the meal, I'd like to be able to pick the groceries." I know small market factors but I've said my piece on that here before on how other teams with lesser pay roll have gotten far more out of what resources they have.
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I apologize for my hostility. I just wanted to be clear mostly on where I stand with my support of the Reds. That support will never waiver, win or lose. I get bitter with them because I am mostly frustrated with the front office and years of losing. Certainly don't ever blame the players if they are doing whatever they can to win. I understand what you're saying in your last paragraph about being busy with family and work. Hope they continue to rise so hopefully there will be something all Reds fans can look forward to in the future.
It's getting rough. If am correct the Reds are 1-6 in last 7. Brewers are knocking the cover off of the ball.
That Eric Thames is white hot right now. Next Reds killer as they say. Homered in every game against Cincy. He is legit as far as being clean. Been drug tested a couple times already including right after last night. MLB has really cracked down on PEDs, 2 or 3 players already suspended just in April.
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