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Defense must be better or nothing will change this year.

MrHotDice

MrHotDice

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Nov 1, 2002
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It true that offense sells tickets but defense wins games. Everyone who has followed UK football throughout the last has seen this over and over. Everyone talks Towles, Boom, our new WR, and a better offensive line but it not the offense that will push UK over the hump of winning. I think UK scored over 30 points 7 times last year but still lost games they should have won with such a good offense.

The SEC is a defensive league plain and simple. Most SEC teams put their best players on that side of the ball plus the DC for most teams are the best in college football. Size , depth and defensive quickness wins in the SEC. Every fed add you have a situation were great offense just out scores the other team as with Johhny Football at A &M but that is a rare situation.

Bottom line, defense will again make or break UK this season as it has for the last 40 years. Just my opinion.
 
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I agree with that. They lost two guys on the DL to the NFL and the last three games the season the defense got torched for 63, 50, and 44 points. Also gave up over 40 two other times (LSU, Miss St).
 
Defense held Florida to 23 points in regulation on the road.

Missouri only twenty points.

Held Vandy to zero. Scored seven themselves and it was the offense that gave up the only touchdown for Commodore.

We had seven wins within our grasp if offense had just an average day. And are the reason the season didn't fall apart earlier.

Not saying they're team mvp. But our defense can beat the poor and mediocre teams on our schedule. the makings of a fine season are here now, and a great season is closer than we know.
 
MrHotDice said:
It true that offense sells tickets but defense wins games. Everyone who has followed UK football throughout the last has seen this over and over. Everyone talks Towles, Boom, our new WR, and a better offensive line but it not the offense that will push UK over the hump of winning. I think UK scored over 30 points 7 times last year but still lost games they should have won with such a good offense.

The SEC is a defensive league plain and simple. Most SEC teams put their best players on that side of the ball plus the DC for most teams are the best in college football. Size , depth and defensive quickness wins in the SEC. Every fed add you have a situation were great offense just out scores the other team as with Johhny Football at A &M but that is a rare situation.

Bottom line, defense will again make or break UK this season as it has for the last 40 years. Just my opinion.
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Totally agree OP. Defense wins championships and it's one of the main reasons I'm predicting 6, maybe 7 wins this season. I still think we are 1-2 years away from having a legit SEC defense because most of our talent is still very young and we just lost Bud and Z.

Saying that, I'm thrilled that Stoops is our coach because he is one of the best D coaches and I loved what I saw schematically from them last season. I can see the coaching is good. It's just we wore down in the last half of the season because we had no SEC depth.

We are now building depth with real talent. We are still thin at LB and DE, but I think we're building nice depth at the other defensive positions. It takes time to build a program.
 
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SaguaroCat said:
Defense held Florida to 23 points in regulation on the road.

Missouri only twenty points.

Held Vandy to zero. Scored seven themselves and it was the offense that gave up the only touchdown for Commodore.

We had seven wins within our grasp if offense had just an average day. And are the reason the season didn't fall apart earlier.

Not saying they're team mvp. But our defense can beat the poor and mediocre teams on our schedule. the makings of a fine season are here now, and a great season is closer than we know.
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Couldn't disagree more. UF, UM and VU had anemic offenses last year. Containing them was nothing to get excited about. In addition, UF and UM both had good to very good defenses.

IMHO, it is nonsensical to blame the offense for those losses. About as logical as some posters who have tried to blame the blowout losses to UG and UT on the offense!
 
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SaguaroCat said:
Defense held Florida to 23 points in regulation on the road.

Missouri only twenty points.

Held Vandy to zero. Scored seven themselves and it was the offense that gave up the only touchdown for Commodore.

We had seven wins within our grasp if offense had just an average day. And are the reason the season didn't fall apart earlier.

Not saying they're team mvp. But our defense can beat the poor and mediocre teams on our schedule. the makings of a fine season are here now, and a great season is closer than we know.
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No offense, but that's 3 games out of 12 (and 3 of the worst offenses in the conference in Mizzou (73rd nationally) Vandy (119th nationally) and Florida (56th nationally). How can you say that and just completely ignore the other 9 games? And to call the Florida game a bad offensive performance is just silly. Patrick Towles had almost 400 passing yards and we had 450 yards of total offense against one of the best defenses in the country. The problem was that our defense gave up 500+ yards (to a pretty anemic Florida offense) and allowed one receiver to gain 216 yards receiving and one running back to gain 157 rushing yards.

To blame the offense instead of the defense for our season not being better last year is just really, really, really silly. There were far more games where if the defense would've just had a mediocre game (instead of god awful) we could've won...there's really only one game where you can say that about the offense (Mizzou). That's one game out of 12. You said there were 7 games we would've won if the offense would've just played mediocre? Which games? Even in the games where the offense was off the defense played even worse. I could say that about the Mizzou game, but that's the only one where a decent offensive performance could've won it.

How many games could we have won if the defense would've played mediocre? Here's some I can think of: Florida, #1 Mississippi State, #22 Louisville, #20 Georgia..that's four games alone right there where we scored 30+ points and a mediocre defensive performance would've given us a good chance to win.

Like how can you just look at 3 games like that and just completely ignore the bulk of the season where it was the offense that carried the team and the defense that played terrible? How can you even begin to blame the Florida loss on the offense? Towles had 369 passing yards on one of the best defenses in the nation. 369 yards. Do you realize how many that is against Florida's secondary no less. We had 450 yards of total offense against a really, really, really good Florida defense at the swamp, but our defense gave up 532 yards to one of the worst offenses in the league (and let ONE receiver alone have over 200 receiving yards). I'm sorry, but that's not on the offense and if you think it is then I don't know what to tell you. Florida's offense was one of the worst in the conference.
 
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jnewc2 said:
No offense, but that's 3 games out of 12 (and 3 of the worst offenses in the conference in Mizzou (73rd nationally) Vandy (119th nationally) and Florida (56th nationally). How can you say that and just completely ignore the other 9 games? And to call the Florida game a bad offensive performance is just silly. Patrick Towles had almost 400 passing yards and we had 450 yards of total offense against one of the best defenses in the country. The problem was that our defense gave up 500+ yards (to a pretty anemic Florida offense) and allowed one receiver to gain 216 yards receiving and one running back to gain 157 rushing yards.

To blame the offense instead of the defense for our season not being better last year is just really, really, really silly. There were far more games where if the defense would've just had a mediocre game (instead of god awful) we could've won...there's really only one game where you can say that about the offense (Mizzou). That's one game out of 12. You said there were 7 games we would've won if the offense would've just played mediocre? Which games? Even in the games where the offense was off the defense played even worse. I could say that about the Mizzou game, but that's the only one where a decent offensive performance could've won it.

How many games could we have won if the defense would've played mediocre? Here's some I can think of: Florida, #1 Mississippi State, #22 Louisville, #20 Georgia..that's four games alone right there where we scored 30+ points and a mediocre defensive performance would've given us a good chance to win.

Like how can you just look at 3 games like that and just completely ignore the bulk of the season where it was the offense that carried the team and the defense that played terrible? How can you even begin to blame the Florida loss on the offense? Towles had 369 passing yards on one of the best defenses in the nation. 369 yards. Do you realize how many that is against Florida's secondary no less. We had 450 yards of total offense against a really, really, really good Florida defense at the swamp, but our defense gave up 532 yards to one of the worst offenses in the league (and let ONE receiver alone have over 200 receiving yards). I'm sorry, but that's not on the offense and if you think it is then I don't know what to tell you. Florida's offense was one of the worst in the conference.
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I think some are missing the point. Winning 6 or 7 games with a very good offense with great players can be done in the SEC but to get over the hump and make National noise it takes a defense as well. I think Coach Stoops understands this better than any UK coach since Curci and his teams played smash mouth defense and could beat any team in the SEC.
 
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The defensive identity should be fully realized this season. We have some experience, we have some talent, we have some speed, and we have some depth. I think the pieces will come together and we will field a competent defense. It might not be Alabama level but it will be good enough to keep us in games.
 
DaBossIsBack said:
The defensive identity should be fully realized this season. We have some experience, we have some talent, we have some speed, and we have some depth. I think the pieces will come together and we will field a competent defense. It might not be Alabama level but it will be good enough to keep us in games.
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There is no "might to that last sentance. It won't be Bama level...cause most aren't...maybe one day if Stoops keeps progressing.
 
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OP is dead on. It is typical UK fan base to lament of Towles, Boom, the WR core, etc..but defense is where UK really took us out of bowl eligibility last year

UK's scoring defense was 93rd out of 125
UK' scoring offense was 60 out of 125

Losing Dupree is a hit to our pass rush...but Bud was really mediocre at best vs. run game. Z..was a 4-3 DE and was out of position in a 3-4 DE where he had to line up on inside of tackle...but Z was a warrior as best he could (it was hard to watch Z get mauled vs. UGA and Miss St games..way out of element vs. strong rush games).

1. My hope is We finally have size to stop the run worth a flip this year...We're hearing of Lewis, Forrest, Flannigan being improved up the middle..we'll see vs. USCjr early but we need to be way more slout vs the run.
2. My fear is whatever we gained in improved rush defense, we'll give back at loss of pass rush this year and truly bad CB's in Quinn/Tiller.
3. The only area of defense I'm confident in this year is safety...Stamps should be dynamite, McClinton had already beaten out Lowrey by season's end...and now with McClain/Edwards/West sounding good...if one of them wins more snaps, I'd feel very good that we'll be very solid at Safety.
 
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You have to have both offense and defense. It is critical the offense move the chains to give the defense a chance to rest. For me a great example of this was Alabama's offense against OSU the first half of their game last year. Bama had control of the game when Kiffen starting throwing the ball horizontally and resulted in three straight three-and-outs to let OSU back into the game and wear out Bama's D. Can't argue Bama didn't have a strong defense last year.

I want a strong defense like any reasonable fan does but an efficient offense is part of the equation also, otherwise it is Mummeball reversed. Last year a great example of this was Florida. They had a lights out defense but couldn't be counted on offensively to score enough points to win consistently. Against Tenn. last year UF played tremendous defense and nearly lost because they simply could not move the ball until they put in a freshman QB who shook up the offense in the fourth quarter.

I contend we absolutely have to improve our run defense, prove we can drive the ball offensively on a somewhat consistent basis, and play mistake free on ST to have a season we all want at Kentucky this year. The fact is as bad as our pass defense was last year our run defense was much,much worse. Teams simply ran on us at will.

When we needed the offense to make a drive for points last year against Mizzou, UL, and LSU we stalled. The defense benefits from the good play of the offense and the offense can be hugely rewarded by good defensive play by being given the ball to do something with.
 
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K_TIME said:
OP is dead on. It is typical UK fan base to lament of Towles, Boom, the WR core, etc..but defense is where UK really took us out of bowl eligibility last year

UK's scoring defense was 93rd out of 125
UK' scoring offense was 60 out of 125

Losing Dupree is a hit to our pass rush...but Bud was really mediocre at best vs. run game. Z..was a 4-3 DE and was out of position in a 3-4 DE where he had to line up on inside of tackle...but Z was a warrior as best he could (it was hard to watch Z get mauled vs. UGA and Miss St games..way out of element vs. strong rush games).

1. My hope is We finally have size to stop the run worth a flip this year...We're hearing of Lewis, Forrest, Flannigan being improved up the middle..we'll see vs. USCjr early but we need to be way more slout vs the run.
2. My fear is whatever we gained in improved rush defense, we'll give back at loss of pass rush this year and truly bad CB's in Quinn/Tiller.
3. The only area of defense I'm confident in this year is safety...Stamps should be dynamite, McClinton had already beaten out Lowrey by season's end...and now with McClain/Edwards/West sounding good...if one of them wins more snaps, I'd feel very good that we'll be very solid at Safety.
Click to expand...

McClinton didn't win any position last year, he's been gone for a while ;)

McWilson may have :). Sorry, had to be that guy.
 
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I agree, this year could be similar to 2007 as UK also had a great offense but a questionable defense that year. The good news is our team won seven and then went on to defeat Florida state in the music city bowl.
 
Well, in reality, our defense only needed to be slightly better last year and we would have more than likely won two more games. Not a lot better, just a little. We all knew the defense was going to be a challenge for us last year and it was. I have zero doubt that our defense is much more than "slightly" better this year. They will hold their own I think, at least in most games. Will our offense improve as well? It should take a pretty big step forward in my opinion, so with both sides of the ball better this year, let's enjoy it and worry a little less.
 
K_TIME said:
OP is dead on. It is typical UK fan base to lament of Towles, Boom, the WR core, etc..but defense is where UK really took us out of bowl eligibility last year

UK's scoring defense was 93rd out of 125
UK' scoring offense was 60 out of 125

Losing Dupree is a hit to our pass rush...but Bud was really mediocre at best vs. run game. Z..was a 4-3 DE and was out of position in a 3-4 DE where he had to line up on inside of tackle...but Z was a warrior as best he could (it was hard to watch Z get mauled vs. UGA and Miss St games..way out of element vs. strong rush games).

1. My hope is We finally have size to stop the run worth a flip this year...We're hearing of Lewis, Forrest, Flannigan being improved up the middle..we'll see vs. USCjr early but we need to be way more slout vs the run.
2. My fear is whatever we gained in improved rush defense, we'll give back at loss of pass rush this year and truly bad CB's in Quinn/Tiller.
3. The only area of defense I'm confident in this year is safety...Stamps should be dynamite, McClinton had already beaten out Lowrey by season's end...and now with McClain/Edwards/West sounding good...if one of them wins more snaps, I'd feel very good that we'll be very solid at Safety.
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention that Elam will be improved and an improvement to our run defense. I expect Elam to be a growing force in the middle.
 
Statistically our defense looked very bad last year if you look at things like yards per game, points per game, yards per rush etc. However there were some bright spots which Coach Elliot patiently explained at a news conference recently including QB pressures and interceptions.

IMO our defense was not very strong up the middle last year and when teams can run effectively up the middle it puts added pressure on all the other components of the defense. That's basically why we had problems stopping the better teams last year.

We had Lewis who was still developing technically, and at times not being fundamentally sound, , Elam in relief - young, green, not in the best shape, CJ Johnson making the transitions from JUCO and Douglas who was primarily a rush DT, and not particularly effective against the run.

Now you have 3 of these returning in much better shape physically with a year of experience under their belt, all should be much more polished and effective, but we add Meant, Middletown, Hyde and Debose to the depth all of which have been receiving good reviews by the staff. So I think they have taken a giant leap in solving the softness in the middle and that will benefit the rest of the defense.
 
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I'm glad I came to this thread. I'm leaving with a +3
Deeeefense said:
Statistically our defense looked very bad last year if you look at things like yards per game, points per game, yards per rush etc. However there were some bright spots which Coach Elliot patiently explained at a news conference recently including QB pressures and interceptions.

IMO our defense was not very strong up the middle last year and when teams can run effectively up the middle it puts added pressure on all the other components of the defense. That's basically why we had problems stopping the better teams last year.

We had Lewis who was still developing technically, and at times not being fundamentally sound, , Elam in relief - young, green, not in the best shape, CJ Johnson making the transitions from JUCO and Douglas who was primarily a rush DT, and not particularly effective against the run.

Now you have 3 of these returning in much better shape physically with a year of experience under their belt, all should be much more polished and effective, but we add Meant, Middletown, Hyde and Debose to the depth all of which have been receiving good reviews by the staff. So I think they have taken a giant leap in solving the softness in the middle and that will benefit the rest of the defense.
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Yeah, there was a noticeable improvement defensively between 2013 and 2014. Not in the obvious categories, but in other categories that you have to be good in to be an elite defense.
 
Our incoming redshirts & returning starters will create enough depth that we will be better. The question will be, how much is enough to make a difference? I think there will be enough improvement on both sides of the ball to get the Cats to a bowl, Possibly a pretty good bowl!!
 
Our defense in 2014 was about like most years in the last 30 or 40 years . . . pretty bad. We hear "we will be better" each and every year. I am tired of hearing about improvement, I would like to see improvement on the field.
 
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MrHotDice said:
It true that offense sells tickets but defense wins games. Everyone who has followed UK football throughout the last has seen this over and over. Everyone talks Towles, Boom, our new WR, and a better offensive line but it not the offense that will push UK over the hump of winning. I think UK scored over 30 points 7 times last year but still lost games they should have won with such a good offense.

The SEC is a defensive league plain and simple. Most SEC teams put their best players on that side of the ball plus the DC for most teams are the best in college football. Size , depth and defensive quickness wins in the SEC. Every fed add you have a situation were great offense just out scores the other team as with Johhny Football at A &M but that is a rare situation.

Bottom line, defense will again make or break UK this season as it has for the last 40 years. Just my opinion.
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My thought process is that even if our defense still ain't where it needs to be, two things will help it that really didn't help last year. One, is an offense that is way more consistent in long drives and running clock, and the second is having the return teams being more of a weapon and better field position.
 
adding coach buh as outside lb'er coach will pay huge dividends this year. those guys will be better against the run this year with better coaching on that position. plus another defensive mind to bounce ideas off of is good as stoops has said. i dont expect us to be 20 on defense but i think we make a big improvement in year 3.
 
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The fact that 3 and outs will be few and far between on offense will help our defense immensely
 
Everything will be improved this yr. Offense, defense, special teams.....all will be improved.
 
I get Saguaros point...if the offense was just a tad better last year, we get wins vs UF, UL and Mizzou. Doesn't mean they were the reason we lost...

Even if we only get offensive improvement this year, we could still see an increase to 6-7 wins.
 
The D starts with the Dline and it should be improved and the recruiting has improved.I can't remember getting the bigs like we have the last couple of years.They willl make the linebacking and backs better.
 
Whoa, whoa, whoa! So, if I understand this correctly, you're saying that in order to have a good football team, that UK needs a good defense?! Huge, if true...
 
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MrHotDice said:
I think some are missing the point. Winning 6 or 7 games with a very good offense with great players can be done in the SEC but to get over the hump and make National noise it takes a defense as well. I think Coach Stoops understands this better than any UK coach since Curci and his teams played smash mouth defense and could beat any team in the SEC.
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AMEN BROTHER.
 
John Madden said it best, "Usually the team with the higher score at the end of the game is the winner."

If the desired outcome is to score more points than your opponent, you can do that several different ways. Have a crazy good offense. Have a crazy good defense. Or have a mixture of both.
 
They actually had quite a few ppl playing out of position last year, or overcompensating in their position. They actually were pretty decent last yr with that circumstance
 
TeoJ said:
The D starts with the Dline and it should be improved and the recruiting has improved.I can't remember getting the bigs like we have the last couple of years.They willl make the linebacking and backs better.
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Agree, Defense has got to improve a lot.
 
UK had very poor defense against the big receivers on the boundary side last year. I am hoping that Westry is the answer. Him being 6'4" IMO it will be much more difficult for those tall receivers to just play jump ball with our defender. The past several years the Beckham-Green-Parker type of receivers have just had their way with that side of the UK defense.
 
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