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Court strikes down possible payments to college athletes

It's inevitable that this ends up in the Supreme Court and the NCAA is dealt a crushing blow. There's only so long that indentured servitude can last legally.
 
I JUST WANT MY EA COLLEGE FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL BACK DANG IT!!!!

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It's inevitable that this ends up in the Supreme Court and the NCAA is dealt a crushing blow. There's only so long that indentured servitude can last legally.

Indentured servitude? What are you talking about. These kids are being given a very valuable, and now that they can be paid for cost of attendance, fair trade. The vast majority are never going to play pro ball of any sort, but they get a free ride to get an education and now also get living expenses paid, get to play a game they love and would play for free, and you still think it s a problem? I really prefer college sports to not fully become "professionalized". It will destroy the sports we love.
 
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At what point does Ted Cruz call out the NCAA Cartel looking into and finding an appeals court judge they can win with? Just delaying the inevitable if you ask me.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/appeals-court-rules-ncaa-violation-antitrust-laws-152653448--spt.html
Ted Cruz? Give me a break. There will be a parade of lawsuits, because the wealth redistribution crowd is on a roll, but I still don't believe the definition of the word amateur is about to change just yet.
 
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I think the 9th circuit got one right for once. I don't think the SC will even hear the case. If they do, the 9th circuits ruling will almost certainly stand.
 
Really? An association making billions and hanging on by a thread to keep athlete's amateurs? The palace in Indy will burn as the major 6 conferences will make some sense of these decisions and take full control of the product whether we like it or not. It will never be the same but that doesn't mean the competition will suffer. I'd argue an expanded football playoff and more transparency can improve the games. Make the good ole boys sweat a little I'd say.
 
I'm not against playing guys, but in alot of ways it's like an internship.

Universities(company) get to profit in the short/medium term.

Players (interns) get to profit short-term and long-term with:
  • free college education, room & board
  • meals
  • playing against the best players in your age group
  • coached by professionals with NBA exposure/experience
  • Build marketshare /brand awareness
  • UK specifically helps players develop their brand, which in turn results in high $ endorsement deals after college
  • Tournament helps develop leadership skills and communication skills
I just don't see the Supreme Court sticking their nose in it and if they do have a feeling they will side with the NCAA
 
If you played a major college sport, then you know it requires a 52 week 40 hour equivalent commitment. A scholarship and meals don't begin to meet minimum wage compensation.
 
If you played a major college sport, then you know it requires a 52 week 40 hour equivalent commitment. A scholarship and meals don't begin to meet minimum wage compensation.

Actually minimum wage at 40 hours per week for 52 weeks is around $16,000. Room, board, tuition, and books at most any university will easily top that and more. Throw in medical coverage, access to trainers, conditioning programs, coaching received and probably a host of other benefits I am not thinking of and I believe the benefit received greatly exceeds minimum wage. We too often devalue the worth of a college degree.
 
Actually minimum wage at 40 hours per week for 52 weeks is around $16,000. Room, board, tuition, and books at most any university will easily top that and more. Throw in medical coverage, access to trainers, conditioning programs, coaching received and probably a host of other benefits I am not thinking of and I believe the benefit received greatly exceeds minimum wage. We too often devalue the worth of a college degree.

To attend Penn State for someone outside of PA, the cost for room and board, tuition and fees would be close to $50K.

BTW, this is an interesting discussion!
 
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Actually minimum wage at 40 hours per week for 52 weeks is around $16,000. Room, board, tuition, and books at most any university will easily top that and more. Throw in medical coverage, access to trainers, conditioning programs, coaching received and probably a host of other benefits I am not thinking of and I believe the benefit received greatly exceeds minimum wage. We too often devalue the worth of a college degree.
Among my employees are about 50 minimum wage. My expenses include health, disability, employer's share of fica, and uniforms. I have to train them. I have to pay overtime. If I required them to work morning/afternoon/evening 7 days a week, I'd have lawsuits and labor officials swarming like bees. And never mind the road trips and me controlling their "personal time" with bed-checks, moral restraints, homework and random meetings.

I don't undervalue education. I just value the student athlete and respect him/her as laborers who deserve fair treatment. The system has been and remains broke.
 
Among my employees are about 50 minimum wage. My expenses include health, disability, employer's share of fica, and uniforms. I have to train them. I have to pay overtime. If I required them to work morning/afternoon/evening 7 days a week, I'd have lawsuits and labor officials swarming like bees. And never mind the road trips and me controlling their "personal time" with bed-checks, moral restraints, homework and random meetings.

I don't undervalue education. I just value the student athlete and respect him/her as laborers who deserve fair treatment. The system has been and remains broke.
Problem is, they aren't employees. They have entered into a private "club". It has rules, but the rules have now been relaxed. Rightfully so. In what way do you believe the system is still broken?
 
Among my employees are about 50 minimum wage. My expenses include health, disability, employer's share of fica, and uniforms. I have to train them. I have to pay overtime. If I required them to work morning/afternoon/evening 7 days a week, I'd have lawsuits and labor officials swarming like bees. And never mind the road trips and me controlling their "personal time" with bed-checks, moral restraints, homework and random meetings.

I don't undervalue education. I just value the student athlete and respect him/her as laborers who deserve fair treatment. The system has been and remains broke.

My response was aimed at your statement, "A scholarship and meals don't begin to meet minimum wage compensation," I disagreed and I still do.
 
Problem is, they aren't employees. They have entered into a private "club". It has rules, but the rules have now been relaxed. Rightfully so. In what way do you believe the system is still broken?
I know this is a ridiculous super-stretch comparison, but it's akin to sweat shop labor and millionaire management. I played college sports in the dark ages, and my education was a celebrated blessing. My son played college sports, and the demands on his time and life was TOTALLY different. 12 months including mandatory summer ball (baseball). Morning...Afternoon...Evening regiments even during the offseason.

When a teammate pal's car broke down (single Mom...very impoverished), I wanted to pay for the repair. Nope, can't do that. And the kid couldn't hold a part time job to put money in his pocket to pay for it or buy a tank of gas to take his girlfriend on a date. It's imbalanced when you consider the mega-profits they bring to the NCAA and more particularly the school. How many kids go to UK because of the 12 kids who wear basketball uniforms??
 
to me it's not a matter of paying them outright. It IS a matter of some of the ridiculous rules and regulations about what they can accept as players. I have no problem with players getting a discount in restaurants ONCE THEY HAVE ACTUALLY ENROLLED; or, allowing the school to fly parents in to see their kids play, or anything similar. Or allowing them to use university water to wash their cars. I agree that the education, and room and board should be enough, otherwise - but quit sanctioning things that make sense to provide.
 
Indentured servitude? What are you talking about. These kids are being given a very valuable, and now that they can be paid for cost of attendance, fair trade. The vast majority are never going to play pro ball of any sort, but they get a free ride to get an education and now also get living expenses paid, get to play a game they love and would play for free, and you still think it s a problem? I really prefer college sports to not fully become "professionalized". It will destroy the sports we love.


No doubt the players are getting a valuable return for their investment. BUT, IF the NCAA and schools are profiting on these players by name and or group the return the NCAA is getting needs to be shared and not hidden so all is above board where a real decision can be made.

What sickens me is all the under-handed deals that are made.

If you want to talk about indentured servants then look at the NFL. Most of those guys end up broke and crippled for life. (They choose but what choice do they really have? Most only have their bodies to market in any event.) Forget looking at those big contracts as most are not guaranteed and can be canceled by the team. Many sign without an injury clause or even medical benefits.
 
I dont think NCAA athletes should be compensated. The concept of them being paid doesnt bother me. The logistics involved are just too complicated and expensive. Under title 9, im assuming youd have to pay all athletes equally. That would be tough considering only 1, sometimes 2 male sports are the only revenue generating sports at the school. There just isnt a fair way to make it happen.

But I also dont think the NCAA should be able to stop them from profiting on their own name/likeness.

If Tyler Ulis wants to be able to charge $500 for appearing at a car lot, he should be able to. If Jamal Murray wants to charge for autographs, he should be able to. Any player should receive royalties for any jersey/item sold with their name/likeness.

Its basically the Olympic model. And its really the only solution.
 
I know this is a ridiculous super-stretch comparison, but it's akin to sweat shop labor and millionaire management. I played college sports in the dark ages, and my education was a celebrated blessing. My son played college sports, and the demands on his time and life was TOTALLY different. 12 months including mandatory summer ball (baseball). Morning...Afternoon...Evening regiments even during the offseason.

When a teammate pal's car broke down (single Mom...very impoverished), I wanted to pay for the repair. Nope, can't do that. And the kid couldn't hold a part time job to put money in his pocket to pay for it or buy a tank of gas to take his girlfriend on a date. It's imbalanced when you consider the mega-profits they bring to the NCAA and more particularly the school. How many kids go to UK because of the 12 kids who wear basketball uniforms??

I think I already addressed that problem. Schools can now pay cost of living benefits. Some of the ridiculous rules that tie people's hands so they can't help kids who genuinely need help still need to go. If you really don't love the game, perhaps the time required isn't worth the value of the trade. All I'm saying is there is a fair offer on the table. Kids don't have to take it and aren't required to continue once they do take it.
 
My response was aimed at your statement, "A scholarship and meals don't begin to meet minimum wage compensation," I disagreed and I still do.
Nice debate tactic.
I think I already addressed that problem. Schools can now pay cost of living benefits. Some of the ridiculous rules that tie people's hands so they can't help kids who genuinely need help still need to go. If you really don't love the game, perhaps the time required isn't worth the value of the trade. All I'm saying is there is a fair offer on the table. Kids don't have to take it and aren't required to continue once they do take it.
I'm not quibbling with you...but it's hardly fair. It's take it or don't prepare for the NFL, NBA, MLB (if you weren't drafted), NHL, etc. The athlete has had zero power to negotiate until the lawsuits forced minimum concessions.

Hat tip. I'm out of this discussion, but I appreciate the civil discourse.
 
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No doubt the players are getting a valuable return for their investment. BUT, IF the NCAA and schools are profiting on these players by name and or group the return the NCAA is getting needs to be shared and not hidden so all is above board where a real decision can be made.

What sickens me is all the under-handed deals that are made.

If you want to talk about indentured servants then look at the NFL. Most of those guys end up broke and crippled for life. (They choose but what choice do they really have? Most only have their bodies to market in any event.) Forget looking at those big contracts as most are not guaranteed and can be canceled by the team. Many sign without an injury clause or even medical benefits.

The NFL has a very effective players union. If players are getting the short end, ben
Nice debate tactic.

I'm not quibbling with you...but it's hardly fair. It's take it or don't prepare for the NFL, NBA, MLB (if you weren't drafted), NHL, etc. The athlete has had zero power to negotiate until the lawsuits forced minimum concessions.

Hat tip. I'm out of this discussion, but I appreciate the civil discourse.

No need to stop, it's a good discussion. You brought up another benefit the kids that may go pro receive. Expert coaching, healthcare, and a stage to present themselves. High school football players get nothing but coaching and a stage and the opportunity for a scholarship to play in college. They have long days, practice in the worst heat of summer, are required to perform academically and have many rules for behavior that regular students don't have. They are not employees either. The amount of money a business makes is no concern of the employee. They accept a job at a rate of pay. So claiming the money should be spread around more is little more than a form of socialism. Capitalism doesn't work that way. College athletes are not employees. I'm pretty sure a court has already ruled on that.
 
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The NFL has a very effective players union. If players are getting the short end, ben


No need to stop, it's a good discussion. You brought up another benefit the kids that may go pro receive. Expert coaching, healthcare, and a stage to present themselves. High school football players get nothing but coaching and a stage and the opportunity for a scholarship to play in college. They have long days, practice in the worst heat of summer, are required to perform academically and have many rules for behavior that regular students don't have. They are not employees either. The amount of money a business makes is no concern of the employee. They accept a job at a rate of pay. So claiming the money should be spread around more is little more than a form of socialism. Capitalism doesn't work that way. College athletes are not employees. I'm pretty sure a court has already ruled on that.


The NFL players union is a ponzi scheme. To be frank, many players only have their bodies and not much else. I am privy to the NFL in some ways. Even have some shoes I haven't worn yet. You see the few sticking it to the many in the NFL. BLUF. Right or wrong can be debated but the majority of the players get the shaft. (Yes they agree to it. That is the sad part.)

One last thing to ponder. If a MLB player has a 10 million dollar contract he will get 10 million no matter what. If an NFL player gets a 10 million dollar contract they may get it all, they may get 100k, they may get a million. They may not get a dime of it but the team can drop them like a hot potato if they desire without a dime owed them.
 
Simple, easily implemented solution: Eliminate athletic scholarships. Put the "scholar" back into the term scholar-athlete.

Let the players that want to go to college apply for financial aid like any other student.

Let those that don't want to go to college or can't afford to go to college even with the abundance of need-based financial aid available, play for pay in the NBA D-League or an equivalent for the NFL, or MLB minor leagues, etc.
 
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Among my employees are about 50 minimum wage. My expenses include health, disability, employer's share of fica, and uniforms. I have to train them. I have to pay overtime. If I required them to work morning/afternoon/evening 7 days a week, I'd have lawsuits and labor officials swarming like bees. And never mind the road trips and me controlling their "personal time" with bed-checks, moral restraints, homework and random meetings.

I don't undervalue education. I just value the student athlete and respect him/her as laborers who deserve fair treatment. The system has been and remains broke.

Choosing to accept an athletic scholarship and play a sport has always been, and will be, a choice that the kid and his/her family makes. It's a privilege to get a full athletic scholarship, not a right.

Sorry, but as someone who is about to complete my 8th year of college/professional school, and will finish in a tremendous amount of debt, I'm not going to say these athletes on full rides (including extra for cost of attendance now) should be getting paid more money.

Going to professional school was a privilege for me and most certainly a choice. I wasn't forced to do anything, thus the debt accrued is my own choosing and no sympathy is warranted. These student-athletes were not forced to play sports in college and thus, what they get as part of their free education is enough. Also keep in mind that there are thousands of student-athletes at hundreds of NCAA schools including Div 1 and 2. To start paying certain players depending on school/conference would create a mess.
 
Sounds like the many must not be too bright if they allow themselves to be played like that, both by their team and their union. Perhaps there are mor UNCheat players in the NFL than I realzed.
 
Simple, easily implemented solution: Eliminate athletic scholarships. Put the "scholar" back into the term scholar-athlete.

Let the players that want to go to college apply for financial aid like any other student.

Let those that don't want to go to college or can't afford to go to college even with the abundance of need-based financial aid available, play for pay in the NBA D-League or an equivalent for the NFL, or MLB minor leagues, etc.

Except you forget how much money high-profile athletic teams bring into the schools. College athletics really can't afford to eliminate scholarships. Those players are needed to field the teams that win - the biggest names in college basketball, are the highly skilled, exciting players that people want to see. Yes, I know that there are some teams who surprise; but they aren't consistent. How did their attendance look before that big-winning year? Attendance = money.
And yes, I'm aware that there was a time that those impact players DID go to college; and they stayed. But that was only because there WAS no other options for them. Big name programs can maintain their revenue by fielding teams who win.

You mention financial aid - yes, right now there is quite a bit of need based financial aid available, IF you apply for it in time; but it isn't unlimited and only so much is allocated for each university/college. A huge influx of financial aid requests would create a enormous strain and, IMO, most who apply would get less than what is needed in order to attend school.

This is just my opinion, and my apologies for it being poorly worded. I don't have any numbers to back any of this up either; it's just based on what I've observed and have dealt with regarding student financial aid.
 
Wondered when this might merit some discussion. I can say with some degree of confidence there are very few who value a college education more than I do. Still, I think they should receive some compensation given the incredible amounts of money changing hands on their performance as student athlete's. Selling their likeness while denying them any payment was a rather over-the-top move by the NCAA, and I'm pretty sure that did stand the appeal. Whether it's the Supreme Court, or some other combination of things I believe the NCAA, if it is to survive, will ultimately agree to doing so. They can't keep relying on their 1950's model to get them by in 21st century America.
 
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It's inevitable that this ends up in the Supreme Court and the NCAA is dealt a crushing blow. There's only so long that indentured servitude can last legally.
They get a free education worth a lot of money. That is enough. They should get no more.
 
If UNC*** fans are right and no profit sport scholarship athlete is getting educated at major colleges then this whole deal is a sham. The NCAA should not renew its TV contracts and the schools should do away with athletic scholarships.

No matter what the NCAA should no longer be non profit. People are getting wealthy off of an amateur sport that wasn't the way this was supposed to work.

*UL fans say free hookers happen at all major athletic programs so if that is true brothels should file for 503c status.
 
Except you forget how much money high-profile athletic teams bring into the schools. College athletics really can't afford to eliminate scholarships. Those players are needed to field the teams that win - the biggest names in college basketball, are the highly skilled, exciting players that people want to see. Yes, I know that there are some teams who surprise; but they aren't consistent. How did their attendance look before that big-winning year? Attendance = money.
And yes, I'm aware that there was a time that those impact players DID go to college; and they stayed. But that was only because there WAS no other options for them. Big name programs can maintain their revenue by fielding teams who win.

You mention financial aid - yes, right now there is quite a bit of need based financial aid available, IF you apply for it in time; but it isn't unlimited and only so much is allocated for each university/college. A huge influx of financial aid requests would create a enormous strain and, IMO, most who apply would get less than what is needed in order to attend school.

This is just my opinion, and my apologies for it being poorly worded. I don't have any numbers to back any of this up either; it's just based on what I've observed and have dealt with regarding student financial aid.

Your reply is worded just fine.

However, I must take issue with your comment "Except you forget how much money high-profile athletic teams bring into the schools." Unless I am sorely mistaken, the vast majority of college athletics programs operate at a loss, UK being a rare exception (even UK is barely above break-even), and must receive supplementary funding from their respective universities' general fund, i.e., from the public's taxpayer dollars.

Perhaps, just maybe, if athletic scholarships were eliminated and we returned to the scholar-athlete concept instead of the employee-athlete-scholar model to which we seem headed, the following positive, IMHO, results would take place:

(1) Athletics coaches would be paid on a scale similar to full professor, assistant professor, associate professor, graduate assistant scale instead of the multi-million dollar contracts paid today. Afterall, our universities are supposed to be institutions of higher learning, not athletics factories.

(2) The corruption in the NCAA and at the universities (see U or Miami, UNCheat, UofL Escort scandals, shoe deals, etc.) would be reduced.

(3) The level of excitement, not to be equated with the level of skill being viewed, of attending a college athletics event would not be diminished as much as some people would argue. One of the most exciting games I've ever seen was Georgetown College winning a national championship in football several years ago and, before some ask, I saw UK beat the LSU national championship football team a few years back.

(4) The cost of taking a family to a college athletics event would be reduced to a level that most fans can afford.

Certainly, there would be some downside to the approach I have suggested. Most notedly:

(1) The skill-level of the college athletes, taken as a whole, would likely be diminished to some degree.

(2) The universities may have some difficulties in funding the huge debt service on their opulent athletic facilities.

Overall, IMHO, the end result for our institutions of higher learning would be an outstanding positive!!!!
 
I think the 9th circuit got one right for once. I don't think the SC will even hear the case. If they do, the 9th circuits ruling will almost certainly stand.

Agree on two of three points. The Roberts Court may very well hear a case of this nature. His Court hasn't followed potocol of the past.
 
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