Coaches that have gotten to 200 wins faster than Cal?

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

I'm sure there are, who are they?
Or any coaches win loss record at 200 wins

 

[Clive Gollings]

I think I read today he's the 2nd fastest to do it at a school. The other is from a small college, I didn't recognize his name.

 

[hoodro]

Forgot which coach it was, but I read earlier that only one coach has gotten to 200 wins at at program faster than Cal.

And, fittingly so, Cal jumped Pitino today in the fastest to 200 wins at UK.

 

[Clive Gollings]

Found it.

Calipari is the second-fastest coach in Division I history to reach 200 wins at a school, hitting the mark in his 240th game at Kentucky. Only Clair Bee, who earned 200 wins in his first 231 games at Long Island University from 1931-41, did it faster.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Thanks!


Apparently Long Island was a pretty good program back in the NCAA's very early days. Oddly enough they never went to the NCAA tournament, only the NIT.

 

[BigBlue673]

Thanks!


Apparently Long Island was a pretty good program back in the NCAA's very early days. Oddly enough they never went to the NCAA tournament, only the NIT.

Back in the 30's and early 40's when Clair Bee did this the NIT was THE tournament. Even when the NCAA tournament started the NIT was the big one. Teams would bypass the NCAA to play in the NIT.

 

[UKnCincy]

Back in the 30's and early 40's when Clair Bee did this the NIT was THE tournament. Even when the NCAA tournament started the NIT was the big one. Teams would bypass the NCAA to play in the NIT.

The NIT was never "THE" tournament. It was viewed as being on par with the NCAA tournament, but was never viewed above it. That is a myth that began to develop decades later. Review the poll rankings of the teams in both fields and you'll see this to be the case.

This certainly wasn't the case in the 30's. The NIT was founded in 1938, only one year before the NCAA tournament. And while the NIT was founded by the basketball writers association, the NCAA tournament was started by the college basketball coaches.

The idea that the NIT was more prestigious is nothing more than myth making by the Bill Bradley's of the world that has been embraced by fans of schools trying to scrape together a legacy they don't have when considering only the NCAA tournament.

 

[Cawood86]

Not only has Cal surpassed Pitino at UK in terms of fastest to 200 wins. He has also turned Pitino into a whiny brat without an ounce of class.

 

[jarms24]

I thought our very own @JPScott said the NIT used to be the more prestigious of the two, or maybe he said that's the one Adolph Rupp preferred? I don't want to put words in his mouth though. I think this stuff is interesting. Hope he chimes in.

 

[Orange Soda King]

I thought our very own @JPScott said the NIT used to be the more prestigious of the two, or maybe he said that's the one Adolph Rupp preferred? I don't want to put words in his mouth though. I think this stuff is interesting. Hope he chimes in.

I believe that's right. However, rival fans like to say the 1948/49/51 ships UK won aren't significant because of that, and that's not true. While the NIT was big, the NCAA became "the bigger" tournament according to multiple major newspapers a couple years before UK won their first championship.

 

[Lumpy 2]

I found this on JP Scott's website; In 1948 #1 UK won the NCAA title by beating #20 Columbia, #3 Holy Cross and #11 Baylor. Also in the tournament was #9 Michigan. #2 St Louis won the NIT which included #4 Western Ky, #5 NC St., #6 NYU, #7 Depaul. #13 Bowling Green and #17 Texas. UK then won the collegiate portion of the Olympic Trials and combined with players from the Phillips Oilers to win the '48 Olympics.

In 1949 #1 UK won the NCAA Championship beating #14 Villanova, #4 Illinois and #2 Oklahoma A&M. Also in the tournament was #11 Yale and #17 Wyoming. The NIT was won that year by #8 San Fransisco in a field that included #3 St Louis, #5 Western Ky, #7 Bradley, #10 Bowling Green, #12 Utah and #16 Loyola of Illinois. UK also participated in the NIT that year and was upset by Loyola in a game that was later revealed that UK players had taken money to shave points.

In 1951 UK was ranked #1 again and won the NCAA Tournament, beating Louisville, #9 St Johns, #5 Illinois and #4 Kansas St. Also in the tournament was #2 Oklahoma St., #3Columbia, #8 NC St., #11 BYU, #12 Arizona, #15 Washington and #20 Villanova. BYU won the NIT in '51 over a field that included NC St, #9 St Johns, #10 St Louis, 12 Arizona, #13 Dayton and #17 Cincinnati.

 

[UKnCincy]

I found this on JP Scott's website; In 1948 #1 UK won the NCAA title by beating #20 Columbia, #3 Holy Cross and #11 Baylor. Also in the tournament was #9 Michigan. #2 St Louis won the NIT which included #4 Western Ky, #5 NC St., #6 NYU, #7 Depaul. #13 Bowling Green and #17 Texas. UK then won the collegiate portion of the Olympic Trials and combined with players from the Phillips Oilers to win the '48 Olympics.

In 1949 #1 UK won the NCAA Championship beating #14 Villanova, #4 Illinois and #2 Oklahoma A&M. Also in the tournament was #11 Yale and #17 Wyoming. The NIT was won that year by #8 San Fransisco in a field that included #3 St Louis, #5 Western Ky, #7 Bradley, #10 Bowling Green, #12 Utah and #16 Loyola of Illinois. UK also participated in the NIT that year and was upset by Loyola in a game that was later revealed that UK players had taken money to shave points.

In 1951 UK was ranked #1 again and won the NCAA Tournament, beating Louisville, #9 St Johns, #5 Illinois and #4 Kansas St. Also in the tournament was #2 Oklahoma St., #3Columbia, #8 NC St., #11 BYU, #12 Arizona, #15 Washington and #20 Villanova. BYU won the NIT in '51 over a field that included NC St, #9 St Johns, #10 St Louis, 12 Arizona, #13 Dayton and #17 Cincinnati.

This is the kind of the to which I was referring. The caliber of team in both tournaments was extremely high. So to say that the NIT was above the NCAA simply isn't true.

The level of prestige of the NIT always depended on what the NCAA tournament did. If the NCAA kept the tournament field small (i.e., only 8 teams), then this left a lot of quality teams that could play in the NIT in addition to any teams that chose to play in both. As the NCAA began expanding the field, the NIT began to be diminished.

 

[JPScott]

I thought our very own @JPScott said the NIT used to be the more prestigious of the two, or maybe he said that's the one Adolph Rupp preferred? I don't want to put words in his mouth though. I think this stuff is interesting. Hope he chimes in.

For a time the NIT was more prestigious in terms of media attention, payout etc.

But in terms of strength of the respective fields, while both were very good in the 1940s and often comparable, at no time was the NIT clearly superior to the NCAA tournament for an extended time.

That idea is largely a myth, which UKinCincy referred to.

 

[Mojocat]

Claire Bee was a pretty big name back in the day - he's not a "nobody" in the history of the sport. IIRC, Bee and Rupp were 1 and 2 for a long time in career winning percentage......

 

[CatFanInTheBathtub]

The NIT was never "THE" tournament. It was viewed as being on par with the NCAA tournament, but was never viewed above it. That is a myth that began to develop decades later. Review the poll rankings of the teams in both fields and you'll see this to be the case.

This certainly wasn't the case in the 30's. The NIT was founded in 1938, only one year before the NCAA tournament. And while the NIT was founded by the basketball writers association, the NCAA tournament was started by the college basketball coaches.

The idea that the NIT was more prestigious is nothing more than myth making by the Bill Bradley's of the world that has been embraced by fans of schools trying to scrape together a legacy they don't have when considering only the NCAA tournament.

This is entirely correct. How this myth has been perpetuated is beyond me.

 

[FFWhite]

NIT being played in New York is what perpetrated this myth.

 

[UKnCincy]

Claire Bee was a pretty big name back in the day - he's not a "nobody" in the history of the sport. IIRC, Bee and Rupp were 1 and 2 for a long time in career winning percentage......

Absolutely. Anytime a coach's accomplishments put them in the company of Bee, then that coach has done something impressive.

 

[Estil]

What about when we won the NIT in 1976? After all up until the mid-80s or so we did have both NIT and NCAA championship banners (look up the 1985 NCAA title game we hosted that year and you can see them) so at least in 1976 was the NIT at least a somewhat respectable tournament or was it clearly the "loser's tournament" even that long ago?

 

[Teachable Moe]

Clair Bee still has the #1 winning percentage: 82.6%. He was a fantastic coach but got out of the game over a similar betting scandal that hit UK so hard. I believe he was a mentor of Bobby Knight.

 

[.S&C.]

The NIT was never "THE" tournament. It was viewed as being on par with the NCAA tournament, but was never viewed above it. That is a myth that began to develop decades later. Review the poll rankings of the teams in both fields and you'll see this to be the case.

This certainly wasn't the case in the 30's. The NIT was founded in 1938, only one year before the NCAA tournament. And while the NIT was founded by the basketball writers association, the NCAA tournament was started by the college basketball coaches.

The idea that the NIT was more prestigious is nothing more than myth making by the Bill Bradley's of the world that has been embraced by fans of schools trying to scrape together a legacy they don't have when considering only the NCAA tournament.

Umm....false.

The NIT was as prestigious and way more well known for a while. I believe it had better money bags as well. After a while they were on par with each other, but this is no myth.

 

[NavyKat]

But according to KU and UNC*** Helms titles meant more back in the day.

 

[JPScott]

Umm....false.

The NIT was as prestigious and way more well known for a while. I believe it had better money bags as well. After a while they were on par with each other, but this is no myth.

Below is a listing comparing the two tournaments starting in 1939, when they both held events.

* - signifies the winner of the respective tournament
Ranking - signifies the ranking at the time of the field if available. Years up to 1948 are from the Premo Power rating (determined retrovactively) while years 1949 and later are from the Associated Press poll. Where teams are unranked in the AP but ranked in the UPI, their UPI ranking is also noted.

--------------------------

1939 - NCAA Field

#4 Oregon *
#10 Ohio State
#14 Villanova
Texas
Oklahoma
Utah State
Brown
Wake Forest

1939 - NIT Field

#1 Long Island *
#2 Bradley
#3 Loyola (IL)
#5 St. Johns
#8 New Mexico A&M
#20 Roanoke


--------------------------
1940 - NCAA Field

#1 Indiana *
#2 Southern Cal
#3 Colorado
#4 Duquesne
#8 Rice
#9 Kansas
#15 Western Kentucky
Springfield

1940 - NIT Field

#3 Colorado *
#4 Duquesne
#5 Oklahoma A&M
#10 DePaul
#11 Long Island
#14 St. Johns

--------------------------
1941 - NCAA Field

#2 Wisconsin *
#3 Washington State
#7 Arkansas
#12 Dartmouth
Pittsburgh
North Carolina
Wyoming
Creighton


1941 - NIT Field

#1 Long Island *
#6 Ohio U
#8 Duquesne
#9 Westminster
#13 CCNY
#17 Seton Hall
Virginia
Rhode Island



--------------------------
1942 - NCAA Field


#1 Stanford *
#3 Rice
#4 Colorado
#6 Dartmouth
#8 Penn State
#14 Kentucky
#15 Kansas
#17 Illinois

1942 - NIT Field

#2 Long Island
#5 West Virginia *
#7 Western Kentucky
#9 West Texas State
#13 Toledo
#18 Creighton
#19 CCNY
Rhode Island
--------------------------
1943 - NCAA Field

#2 Wyoming *
#6 Georgetown
#7 DePaul
#9 Dartmouth
New York Univ
Texas
Washington
Oklahoma

1943 - NIT Field

#4 St. Johns *
#8 Creighton
#10 Western Kentucky
#11 Toledo
#13 Manhattan
#16 Washington & Jefferson
#19 Fordham
Rice


Red Cross Game: Wyoming (NCAA) 52, St. Johns (NIT) 47

--------------------------
1944 - NCAA Field

#2 Utah *
#5 Dartmouth
#10 Ohio State
#12 Iowa State
Temple
Pepperdine
Missouri
Catholic

1944 - NIT Field

#2 Utah
#3 Kentucky
#4 DePaul
#6 St. Johns *
#7 Oklahoma A&M
#8 Bowling Green
#15 Muhlenberg
Canisius

Red Cross Game: Utah (NCAA) 44, St. John's (NIT) 36

--------------------------

1945 - NCAA Field

#2 Oklahoma A&M *
#6 Ohio State
#8 Kentucky
#12 New York U
#16 Arkansas
Oregon
Tufts
Utah


1945 - NIT Field

#3 DePaul *
#10 Bowling Green
#11 St Johns
#14 Muhlenberg
#15 Rhode Island
#19 Tennessee
#20 Rensselaer Poly
West Virginia

Red Cross Game: Oklahoma A&M (NCAA) 52, DePaul (NIT) 44

--------------------------

1946 - NCAA Field

#1 Oklahoma A&M *
#3 North Carolina
#7 Ohio State
#11 New York U
#16 Baylor
#18 California
Harvard
Colorado

1946 - NIT Field

#2 Kentucky *
#6 Rhode Island
#9 West Virginia
#10 Bowling Green
St. Johns
Arizona
Muhlenberg (PA)
Syracuse

--------------------------

1947 - NCAA Field

#2 Holy Cross *
#3 Texas
#6 Oklahoma
#9 Navy
#10 Oregon State
#15 CCNY
#16 Wyoming
#19 Wisconsin

1947 - NIT Field

#1 Kentucky
#4 Duquesne
#5 Utah *
#11 N.C. State
#13 West Virginia
#17 Long Island
St. Johns
Bradley

--------------------------

1948 - NCAA Field

#1 Kentucky *
#3 Holy Cross
#9 Michigan
#11 Baylor
#20 Columbia
Kansas State
Wyoming
Washington

1948 - NIT Field

#2 St. Louis *
#4 Western Kentucky
#5 N.C. State
#6 NYU
#7 DePaul
#13 Bowling Green
#17 Texas
LaSalle

--------------------------

1949 - NCAA Field

#1 Kentucky *
#2 Oklahoma A&M
#4 Illinois
Yale
Villanova
Wyoming
Oregon State
Arkansas

1949 - NIT Field

#1 Kentucky
#3 St. Louis
#5 Western Kentucky
#7 Bradley
#8 San Francisco *
#10 Bowling Green
St. Johns
Manhatan
NYU
Loyola (IL)
CCNY
Utah

--------------------------

 

[JPScott]

--------------------------
1950 - NCAA Field

#1 Bradley
#2 Ohio State
#4 Holy Cross
#5 North Carolina State
#7 UCLA
CCNY *
Baylor
Brigham Young

1950 - NIT Field

#1 Bradley
#3 Kentucky
#6 Duquesne
#8 Western Kentucky
#9 St. Johns
#10 LaSalle
#12 San Francisco
#13 Long Island
#15 Arizona
CCNY *
Niagara
Syracuse

--------------------------

1951 - NCAA Field

#1 Kentucky *
#2 Oklahoma A&M
#3 Columbia
#4 Kansas State
#5 Illinois
#8 North Carolina State
#9 St. Johns
#11 Brigham Young
#12 Arizona
#15 Washington
#20 Villanova
(#18 UPI) Texas A&M
San Jose State
Montana State
Louisville
Connecticut

1951 - NIT Field

#8 North Carolina State
#9 St. Johns
#10 St. Louis
#11 Brigham Young *
#12 Arizona
#13 Dayton
#17 Cincinnati
(#14 UPI) Beloit
(#18 UPI) St. Bonaventure
(#18 UPI) Seton Hall
Lawrence Tech
LaSalle

---------------------------

1952 - NCAA Field

#1 Kentucky
#2 Illinois
#4 Duquesne
#5 St. Louis
#8 Kansas *
#11 Dayton
#16 Wyoming
#19 UCLA
(#13 UPI) Texas Christian
Penn State
North Carolina State
St. Johns
Princeton
New Mexico State
Santa Clara
Oklahoma City

1952 - NIT Field

#4 Duquesne
#5 St. Louis
#10 St. Johns
#11 Dayton
#13 Holy Cross
#14 Seton Hall
#15 St. Bonaventure
#18 Seattle
(#16 UPI) Western Kentucky
#17 Louisville
(#17 UPI) LaSalle *
New York U

---------------------------

1953 - NCAA Field

#1 Indiana *
#3 Kansas
#4 Washington
#5 Louisiana State
#8 Oklahoma A&M
#10 Notre Dame
#13 Holy Cross
#14 Seattle
#15 Wake Forest
#16 Santa Clara
#19 DePaul
(#14 UPI) Wyoming
(#18 UPI) Oklahoma City
Lebanon Valley
Fordham
Eastern Kentucky
Pennsylvania
Navy
Miami (OH)
Idaho State
Texas Christian
Hardin-Simmons


1953 - NIT Field

#2 Seton Hall *
#6 LaSalle
#7 St. Johns
#9 Duquesne
#17 Western Kentucky
(#16 UPI) St. Louis
(#19 UPI) Brigham Young
Niagara
Tulsa
Louisville
Georgetown
Manhattan

---------------------------

1954 - NCAA Field

#2 LaSalle *
#4 Indiana
#6 Notre Dame
#7 Bradley
#9 Penn State
#10 Oklahoma State
#11 Southern Cal
#12 George Washington
#14 Louisiana State
#17 Seattle
(#13 UPI) Colorado State
(#14 UPI) North Carolina State
(#19 UPI) Rice
Toledo
Connecticut
Navy
Cornell
Oklahoma City
Colorado
Idaho State
Fordham
Texas Tech
Santa Clara
Loyola (La)


1954 - NIT Field

#3 Holy Cross *
#5 Duquesne
#8 Western Kentucky
#16 Niagara
(#17 UPI) Dayton
St. Francis (NY)
Louisville
Manhattan
Bowling Green
Wichita
St. Francis (Pa)
Brigham Young

---------------------------

1955 - NCAA Field

#1 San Francisco *
#2 Kentucky
#3 LaSalle
#5 Iowa
#7 Utah
#8 Marquette
#10 Oregon State
#15 Colorado
#16 Tulsa
#19 West Virginia
Penn State
Memphis State
Princeton
Williams
Canisius
Duke
Villanova
Oklahoma City
Bradley
Southern Methodist
Idaho State
Seattle
West Texas State
Miami (Oh)

1955 - NIT Field

#6 Duquesne *
#9 Dayton
#20 St. Louis
(#17 UPI) Niagara
(#19 UPI) Holy Cross
(#20 UPI) Cincinnati
Louisville
Manhattan
Lafayette
St. Francis (Pa)
Seton Hall
Connecticut

---------------------------

1956 - NCAA Field

#1 San Francisco *
#2 North Carolina State
#4 Iowa
#7 Southern Methodist
#8 UCLA
#9 Kentucky
#11 Oklahoma City
#14 Holy Cross
#15 Temple
#18 Utah
#20 West Virginia
(#18 UPI) Canisius
(#18 UPI) Seattle
Connecticut
Manhattan
Dartmouth
Marshall
Morehead State
Wayne State
DePaul
Houston
Texas Tech
Kansas State
Memphis State
Idaho State

1956 - NIT Field
#3 Dayton
#6 Louisville *
#19 Oklahoma A&M
(#16 UPI) St. Louis
St. Francis (NY)
Lafayette
Duquesne
Seton Hall
Marquette
Xavier
Niagara
St. Josephs

-------------------------------

1957 - NCAA Field

#1 North Carolina *
#2 Kansas
#3 Kentucky
#4 Southern Methodist
#7 West Virginia
#9 Oklahoma City
#10 St. Louis
#11 Michigan State
#13 California
#16 Idaho State
#17 Notre Dame
#19 Canisius
(#14 UPI) Brigham Young
Lafayette
Connecticut
Syracuse
Yale
Morehead State
Pittsburgh
Miami (OH)
Loyola (La)
Hardin-Simmons
San Francisco

1957 - NIT Field

#5 Seattle
#12 Memphis State
(#12 UPI) Dayton
(#13 UPI) Bradley *
(# 16 UPI) Xavier
Utah
Seton Hall
St. Peters
St. Bonaventure
Cincinnati
Manhattan
Temple

-------------------------------

1958 - NCAA Field

#1 West Virginia
#2 Cincinnati
#3 Kansas State
#4 San Francisco
#5 Temple
#6 Maryland
#8 Notre Dame
#9 Kentucky *
#12 Indiana
#18 Seattle
#19 Oklahoma State
(#19 UPI) Wyoming
Boston College
Manhattan
Dartmouth
Connecticut
Miami (OH)
Pittsburgh
Tennessee Tech
Arkansas
Loyola (La)
Idaho State
Arizona State
California

1958 - NIT Field

#11 Dayton
#14 Bradley
(#18 UPI) St. Bonaventure
St. Johns
Butler
St. Josephs
St. Peters
Xavier *
Niagara
Fordham
St. Francis (Pa)
Utah

-------------------------------

 

[JPScott]

-------------------------------

1959 - NCAA Field

#1 Kansas State
#2 Kentucky
#5 Cincinnati
#7 Michigan State
#9 North Carolina
#10 West Virginia
#11 California *
#14 St. Josephs (Pa)
#16 Texas Christian
#18 Utah
#20 Marquette
(# 18 UPI) Navy
Dartmouth
Boston University
Connecticut
Louisville
Eastern Kentucky
Bowling Green
DePaul
Portland
St. Mary's (Cal)
Idaho State
New Mexico State

1959 - NIT Field

#4 Bradley
#12 St. Louis
#17 Oklahoma City
#19 St. Bonaventure
(#17 UPI) St. Johns *
Villanova
Butler
Fordham
New York University
Denver
Providence
Manhattan



-------------------------------

1960 - NCAA Field

#1 Cincinnati
#2 California
#3 Ohio State *
#5 West Virginia
#6 Utah
#10 Miami (Fl)
#12 New York University
#13 Georgia Tech
#18 Duke
(#13 UPI) Texas
Princeton
St. Josephs (Pa)
Navy
Connecticut
Ohio
Notre Dame
Western Kentucky
DePaul
Air Force
Kansas
Santa Clara
Idaho State
New Mexico State
Oregon
Southern Cal


1960 - NIT Field

#4 Bradley *
#8 Utah State
#9 St. Bonaventure
#14 Providence
#15 St. Louis
#16 Holy Cross
#17 Villanova
#20 St. Johns
(#20 UPI) Dayton
Detroit
Memphis State
Temple

-------------------------------

1961 - NCAA Field

#1 Ohio State
#2 Cincinnati *
#3 St. Bonaventure
#4 Kansas St.
#7 Southern Cal
#11 Utah
#12 Texas Tech
#15 Wake Forest
#16 St. Johns
#17 St. Josephs
#20 Kentucky
(#15 UPI) Louisville
Princeton
George Washington
Rhode Island
Ohio
Morehead State
Xavier (OH)
Houston
Marquette
Arizona State
Seattle
Oregon
Loyola (CA)


1961 - NIT Field
#13 Niagara
#14 Memphis State
#19 Holy Cross
(#14 UPI) St. Louis
(#17 UPI) Dayton
Miami (Fl)
Detroit
Temple
Army
Providence *
DePaul
Colorado State

-------------------------------

 

[TeoJ]

Clair Bee still has the #1 winning percentage: 82.6%. He was a fantastic coach but got out of the game over a similar betting scandal that hit UK so hard. I believe he was a mentor of Bobby Knight.

I don't think he was Knight's mentor but Knight had a lot of respect for him and would ask questions of him.

 

[JPScott]

What about when we won the NIT in 1976? After all up until the mid-80s or so we did have both NIT and NCAA championship banners (look up the 1985 NCAA title game we hosted that year and you can see them) so at least in 1976 was the NIT at least a somewhat respectable tournament or was it clearly the "loser's tournament" even that long ago?

By 1976 the NIT was clearly inferior to the NCAA tournament. But it still was a respectable tournament, as I think it is today despite the NCAA tournament expanding even more. (The NCAA tournament field was 32 teams in 1976).

FWIW, I have no problem with hanging a NIT banner. In fact I support doing so. For whatever reason at some point someone at UK decided to remove all banners which were not NCAA Final Four or better.

I support schools hanging any banner that they feel is warranted. The only issue I have is in cases like UNC where they hang a Helms banner (which is fine) but they try to make it into something it's not (i.e. suggesting that it is a national championship which is a gross distortion).

 

[JPScott]

Claire Bee was a pretty big name back in the day - he's not a "nobody" in the history of the sport. IIRC, Bee and Rupp were 1 and 2 for a long time in career winning percentage......

I generally don't think it's fair to compare eras, as I think people should be judged on the era that they lived in.

Having said that, in Bee's case, he definitely was a great coach, but in terms of getting to 200 wins I do think it's fair to question the strength of the opposition. Even at the time (1930's to early 1940's) LIU was not considered a program that faced the toughest competition.

As an example, look at the following records starting with Bee's first season in 1931-32 (on page 78) until he broke the 200 win mark in the 1940-41 season.

Link to LIU Media Guide Year-by-Year Results (pdf, see page 78-79)

Their level of opposition did improve later in the 1940s as the Blackbirds became more well known.

 

[Chuckinden]

I believe he had a pretty famous sister too....Aunt Bee in Mayberry.

 

[UKnCincy]

Umm....false.

The NIT was as prestigious and way more well known for a while. I believe it had better money bags as well. After a while they were on par with each other, but this is no myth.

You may want to re-read my post. It seems you didn't understand it. I said the NIT was on par with the NCAA from the beginning, as both had quality fields due to the small size of the NCAA tournament and the ability to play in both.

It is a myth, however, that the winner of the NIT was viewed as having accomplished something greater than the winner of the early NCAA tournaments. That has never been the case, and level of media coverage or payout amounts have no bearing on that.

The early Helms Foundation titles are a good example of this. From 1939-1949 (first 10 years of the NCAA), only once did the Helms Foundation select the NIT winner over the NCAA winner. And this happened in 1939, the first year of the NCAA tournament, which was a bit of a fiasco anyway. The NABC quickly sold the tournament to the NCAA shortly after this tournament to cover the loss of running it that first year.

One of the key drivers of the NCAA tournament was Phog Allen, who hated the idea of a tournament controlled by east coast media (NIT). It was a bit of a personal mission for him to make sure the NCAA was the premier tournament and he was very successful in quickly establishing the credibility of the tournament.

The NIT was a very high quality tournament and I see no issue with early NIT winners staking a claim for a national championship. Those tournaments had very strong fields. However, outside of a couple seasons, to say that the NIT was more prestigious and consistently considered to be a greater accomplishment than winning the NCAA tournament is simply not true.

 

[Federal Cat]

Found it.

Calipari is the second-fastest coach in Division I history to reach 200 wins at a school, hitting the mark in his 240th game at Kentucky. Only Clair Bee, who earned 200 wins in his first 231 games at Long Island University from 1931-41, did it faster.[/QUOTE

Okay Coach Cal is more recent, that's all I need to know, thanks

 

[USNNFOCAT]

I'm sure there are, who are they?
Or any coaches win loss record at 200 wins

Yeah but he only cares about getting guys drafted, not winning...yeah, right!