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Cal's 10 Years Split

HagginHall1999

HagginHall1999

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Oct 19, 2018
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Interesting stats here...minus the Title we really should have from 2015, it is uncanny how similar the stats are.

This is especially true if you take into account how we made FF's in first half versus how we lost in Elite 8's in second half. 2011 beats OSU on basically a buzzer beater to make FF and 2017 loses on one to UNC to go to FF. 2014 wins in a game to go to FF that should have went to OT (ridiculous AH bomb) and 2019 loses an OT game vs. Auburn to go to FF.

I say all this to note that you have to get lucky sometimes. Cal's recruiting has changed and there have been ups and downs, but his results have been consistent to be honest. We are generally there with a chance...crazy how similar the two halves have been.

We should all enjoy this time to be a UK fan...seriously.

First 5 Years
152-37, 80.4%
- 1 Title
- 1 Runner Up
- 3 Final 4's
- 4 Elite Eight's
- 1 NIT

Second 5 Years
153-34, 81.8%
- 0 Titles
- 1 Final Four
- 3 Elite Eight's
- 1 Sweet 16
- 1 Second Round
 
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Folks may gripe during the ups and downs of the seasons, but I heard for years that what Kentucky fans wanted was "to be in the conversation for the title" every year, and Cal has clearly met that expectation.

From there, we all know the tournament doesn't care about crowning a true champion. Health, luck, officiating, and teenagers make for a volatile situation.
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
Folks may gripe during the ups and downs of the seasons, but I heard for years that what Kentucky fans wanted was "to be in the conversation for the title" every year, and Cal has clearly met that expectation.

From there, we all know the tournament doesn't care about crowning a true champion. Health, luck, officiating, and teenagers make for a volatile situation.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more....this is literally all you can ask for. Everything happens for a reason. If we win in 2015, maybe Cal leaves with all his players and heads to NBA...who knows?

Some would be fine with that, but I'd rather enjoy the consistent success and have another 5-10 years hedging my bets that he wins another one or two even.

I know one thing for sure, it has been a heck of a ride this far.
 
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Get out of here with your facts and logic!!! Take your reason with you too!!!

The NCAA tournament is both fun and completely stupid. It does absolutely nothing to determine the best team. You literally might as well take the top ten teams and draw straws and be like WELP OK THEY ARE CHAMPS.

The idea is to be in that draw and let the numbers fall where they may. Cal has done a masterful job at doing that.

If you’re in the camp that wants more four year, get to know you type teams, that’s fine. I get it, I really do. You can even probably win 70% of your games. Just don’t ever expect anywhere near as many title chances.
 
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I think it's still fair to be frustrated with the last 4 years, the last 2 especially. In both NCAAt losses we shot under 25% from 3 and under 65% from the FT line. I don't know what Calipari could have done differently about FT shooting... but this year that looks to be improved (so long as we keep Brooks/Whitney off the line). But the 3 point shooting must be addressed. We have had good shooters, but the offense is not designed to get players open for shots.

At the end of the day Calipari is doing a great job getting his teams in a position to contend for a title. The frustrations today pale in comparison to the despair of the BCG reign of terror, and the late-Tubby Malaise. I just hope we can stop knocking on the door of a Final Four soon and just knock the door down.
 
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It's a hard title to win. Got to have talent, hot on the right night, luck of the brackets (maybe falling apart), other team not having an unreal night, zebras on your side. In a five player game and trying to play talent over experience it takes some luck. It's the hardest title to win in all of sports as far as the best team actually winning the thing.
 
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It is fair to be frustrated over the last 5, yes. But other teams have been cheating their asses off to try and catch up to Cal, and that has impacted the talent being brought in. Seems like the tides are starting to shift back in our direction a bit.
 
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wcc31 said:
Cal got Lamb, Harrison, Knight good looks but not Herro. Got it.

Some guys have the sack to make shots in March. Some shoot 18%.
Click to expand...

This is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

People don't want to blame the players (and that's probably the right instinct since they're college kids working for free under immense pressure), so they blame the coaching.

But at some point, players make plays. Brandon Knight made a play to beat Ohio State. Aaron Harrison made a bunch of big shots. MKG made a ridiculous block as KU was making a run in the title game.

There's only so much you can draw up, and you can't put the ball in the basket for them. At its heart, basketball is the ultimate "go make a play" game. If Luke Maye misses we probably cut the nets. If Brandon Knight does, we don't go to the Final Four.

I don't think Cal is a better or worse coach if either of those results go the other way.
 
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StubbornPenny said:
Get out of here with your facts and logic!!! Take your reason with you too!!!

The NCAA tournament is both fun and completely stupid. It does absolutely nothing to determine the best team. You literally might as well take the top ten teams and draw straws and be like WELP OK THEY ARE CHAMPS.

The idea is to be in that draw and let the numbers fall where they may. Cal has done a masterful job at doing that.

If you’re in the camp that wants more four year, get to know you type teams, that’s fine. I get it, I really do. You can even probably win 70% of your games. Just don’t ever expect anywhere near as many title chances.
Click to expand...

Well done.
 
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Since 1979 which team has the most number 1 seeds?!? Idk the answer but I'm gonna assume Duke. Out of those 40 years Duke has been in the hunt probably 30 times. They have 5 titles. I don't mean to compare us and Duke, but one of the best coaches of all time is avg a title every 8 seasons. That's the best ratio out there aswell.
Folks it's tough
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
This is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

People don't want to blame the players (and that's probably the right instinct since they're college kids working for free under immense pressure), so they blame the coaching.

But at some point, players make plays. Brandon Knight made a play to beat Ohio State. Aaron Harrison made a bunch of big shots. MKG made a ridiculous block as KU was making a run in the title game.

There's only so much you can draw up, and you can't put the ball in the basket for them. At its heart, basketball is the ultimate "go make a play" game. If Luke Maye misses we probably cut the nets. If Brandon Knight does, we don't go to the Final Four.

I don't think Cal is a better or worse coach if either of those results go the other way.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
This is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

People don't want to blame the players (and that's probably the right instinct since they're college kids working for free under immense pressure), so they blame the coaching.

But at some point, players make plays. Brandon Knight made a play to beat Ohio State. Aaron Harrison made a bunch of big shots. MKG made a ridiculous block as KU was making a run in the title game.

There's only so much you can draw up, and you can't put the ball in the basket for them. At its heart, basketball is the ultimate "go make a play" game. If Luke Maye misses we probably cut the nets. If Brandon Knight does, we don't go to the Final Four.

I don't think Cal is a better or worse coach if either of those results go the other way.
Click to expand...
Amen - well said and so true
 
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NoDef said:
It's a hard title to win. Got to have talent, hot on the right night, luck of the brackets (maybe falling apart), other team not having an unreal night, zebras on your side. In a five player game and trying to play talent over experience it takes some luck. It's the hardest title to win in all of sports as far as the best team actually winning the thing.
Click to expand...
Hell, I'd settle for fair and even. If so, we win one, maybe two 'ships more.
 
STEVECAT said:
It is fair to be frustrated over the last 5, yes. But other teams have been cheating their asses off to try and catch up to Cal, and that has impacted the talent being brought in. Seems like the tides are starting to shift back in our direction a bit.
Click to expand...
Not quite yet! Still waiting for some accountability and punishments to be handed down to the obvious suspects. That aside, Duke/ K will NEVER be looked at, and that’s the main thorn in Cal’s side, keeping a lot of elite guys out of UK’s corner. JMO
 
What sucks is the last 2 years have been the best paths to a Final Four/Championship in Cal's time here and neither team was able to make it. We usually have a gauntlet to go through to get there. We likely won't have an easier path like those going forward unless the bracket completely implodes like it did 2 years ago for us.
 
GonzoCat90 said:
This is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

People don't want to blame the players (and that's probably the right instinct since they're college kids working for free under immense pressure), so they blame the coaching.

But at some point, players make plays. Brandon Knight made a play to beat Ohio State. Aaron Harrison made a bunch of big shots. MKG made a ridiculous block as KU was making a run in the title game.

There's only so much you can draw up, and you can't put the ball in the basket for them. At its heart, basketball is the ultimate "go make a play" game. If Luke Maye misses we probably cut the nets. If Brandon Knight does, we don't go to the Final Four.

I don't think Cal is a better or worse coach if either of those results go the other way.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better. I've defended Cal with this exact premise. Players make plays. Cal is great at what he does but he doesn't make free throws or 3 pointers, he recruits guys, teaches them and puts them in a position to do it.

I don't blame it all on players either. Sometimes your shot is off and you don't know why. Hell, sometimes you have a broken finger and can't make a free throw.

Then you have the other team...sometimes they make everything and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

All of the above is why it is so hard to win the big dance.
 
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gossie21 said:
I think it's still fair to be frustrated with the last 4 years, the last 2 especially. In both NCAAt losses we shot under 25% from 3 and under 65% from the FT line. I don't know what Calipari could have done differently about FT shooting... but this year that looks to be improved (so long as we keep Brooks/Whitney off the line). But the 3 point shooting must be addressed. We have had good shooters, but the offense is not designed to get players open for shots.

At the end of the day Calipari is doing a great job getting his teams in a position to contend for a title. The frustrations today pale in comparison to the despair of the BCG reign of terror, and the late-Tubby Malaise. I just hope we can stop knocking on the door of a Final Four soon and just knock the door down.
Click to expand...




I wonder if K was frustrated in the NCAA with the Zion team? It happens a lot with teams not called Kentucky too.
 
Poetax said:
I wonder if K was frustrated in the NCAA with the Zion team? It happens a lot with teams not called Kentucky too.
Click to expand...
For sure. I hate the trend among national media types who hold Calipari to a standard that no other coach is held to. They dismiss his accomplishments because he "had overwhelming talent" and turn a blind eye to K flaming out with the same level of overwhelming talent.

Calipari has only lost before the Final Four 2x with a top-5 recruit on his roster in his 10 years at kentucky. K has done that the last 4 years IN A ROW. In that span 2x with 2 top-5 players, and 1x with 3 top-5 players.
 
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StubbornPenny said:
Get out of here with your facts and logic!!! Take your reason with you too!!!

The NCAA tournament is both fun and completely stupid. It does absolutely nothing to determine the best team. You literally might as well take the top ten teams and draw straws and be like WELP OK THEY ARE CHAMPS.

The idea is to be in that draw and let the numbers fall where they may. Cal has done a masterful job at doing that.

If you’re in the camp that wants more four year, get to know you type teams, that’s fine. I get it, I really do. You can even probably win 70% of your games. Just don’t ever expect anywhere near as many title chances.
Click to expand...

I’ve been saying 68 teams are far too many for a while. I don’t understand why we have to bend over and let mid majors that aren’t top 25 teams into the tourney - and for what? So they can lose in the first or second round. Really they should be Division 1b (like football).
 
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We need to remember what it was like from 2000-2009. We had 4 year players and only had a real chance to contend for the title 2 times. There were 0 championships and 0 final fours. Kentucky wasn’t a “cool” school for elite recruits. I will take what we have now anytime and not think twice.
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
This is where a lot of the frustration comes from.

People don't want to blame the players (and that's probably the right instinct since they're college kids working for free under immense pressure), so they blame the coaching.

But at some point, players make plays. Brandon Knight made a play to beat Ohio State. Aaron Harrison made a bunch of big shots. MKG made a ridiculous block as KU was making a run in the title game.

There's only so much you can draw up, and you can't put the ball in the basket for them. At its heart, basketball is the ultimate "go make a play" game. If Luke Maye misses we probably cut the nets. If Brandon Knight does, we don't go to the Final Four.

I don't think Cal is a better or worse coach if either of those results go the other way.
Click to expand...
You’re a wise man. It’s sad that a lot of people don’t realize just how good we’ve had/have it.
 
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HagginHall1999 said:
Interesting stats here...minus the Title we really should have from 2015, it is uncanny how similar the stats are.

This is especially true if you take into account how we made FF's in first half versus how we lost in Elite 8's in second half. 2011 beats OSU on basically a buzzer beater to make FF and 2017 loses on one to UNC to go to FF. 2014 wins in a game to go to FF that should have went to OT (ridiculous AH bomb) and 2019 loses an OT game vs. Auburn to go to FF.

I say all this to note that you have to get lucky sometimes. Cal's recruiting has changed and there have been ups and downs, but his results have been consistent to be honest. We are generally there with a chance...crazy how similar the two halves have been.

We should all enjoy this time to be a UK fan...seriously.

First 5 Years
152-37, 80.4%
- 1 Title
- 1 Runner Up
- 3 Final 4's
- 4 Elite Eight's
- 1 NIT

Second 5 Years
153-34, 81.8%
- 0 Titles
- 1 Final Four
- 3 Elite Eight's
- 1 Sweet 16
- 1 Second Round
Click to expand...

It is first 6 vs next 4.

First six years NCAA Tournament 22-4.

Last four 9-4.
 
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GonzoCat90 said:
Folks may gripe during the ups and downs of the seasons, but I heard for years that what Kentucky fans wanted was "to be in the conversation for the title" every year, and Cal has clearly met that expectation.

From there, we all know the tournament doesn't care about crowning a true champion. Health, luck, officiating, and teenagers make for a volatile situation.
Click to expand...

I guess your definition of being in the conversation for the title is different than mine.
 
IMO it's about quality big men that are ready to go from day one. Haven't had a great one lately. Good but not great.
 
HagginHall1999 said:
Interesting stats here...minus the Title we really should have from 2015, it is uncanny how similar the stats are.

This is especially true if you take into account how we made FF's in first half versus how we lost in Elite 8's in second half. 2011 beats OSU on basically a buzzer beater to make FF and 2017 loses on one to UNC to go to FF. 2014 wins in a game to go to FF that should have went to OT (ridiculous AH bomb) and 2019 loses an OT game vs. Auburn to go to FF.

I say all this to note that you have to get lucky sometimes. Cal's recruiting has changed and there have been ups and downs, but his results have been consistent to be honest. We are generally there with a chance...crazy how similar the two halves have been.

We should all enjoy this time to be a UK fan...seriously.

First 5 Years
152-37, 80.4%
- 1 Title
- 1 Runner Up
- 3 Final 4's
- 4 Elite Eight's
- 1 NIT

Second 5 Years
153-34, 81.8%
- 0 Titles
- 1 Final Four
- 3 Elite Eight's
- 1 Sweet 16
- 1 Second Round
Click to expand...

Lots of people here chiming in with "yeah, see, you bunch of babies!", but if you look closely, Cal's success in the tournament (what really matters to UK fans) in the past 5 years has not been close to what it was in his first 5 years. Taking out the NIT and second round bounce from each, he was clearly better in the first five at getting us near or two the end than he has been the past 5 years.

First 5: E8 or better: 9 times
Last 5: E8 or better: 4 times

Can't really argue this. He's not as good at making us a TRUE final contender in the past 5 years as he was in the first 5. Clear as day.
 
TheDude73 said:
Lots of people here chiming in with "yeah, see, you bunch of babies!", but if you look closely, Cal's success in the tournament (what really matters to UK fans) in the past 5 years has not been close to what it was in his first 5 years. Taking out the NIT and second round bounce from each, he was clearly better in the first five at getting us near or two the end than he has been the past 5 years.

First 5: E8 or better: 9 times
Last 5: E8 or better: 4 times

Can't really argue this. He's not as good at making us a TRUE final contender in the past 5 years as he was in the first 5. Clear as day.
Click to expand...

I'm not following your math above, but I may be slow...ha.

That said, yes his success in tournament was greater in first 5 years vs. second 5 years. However, my post is around how that happened.

Two of the Final Four teams, '11 and '14 made the FF by the slimmest of margins. Two teams in '17 and '19 lost to go to FF by the slimmest of margins.

My point is to not argue 1st half vs. 2nd half success, my point is that the game is fickle and is often decided by one shot/play/call. I don't blame Cal for that.

I don't understand the argument unless you think he has lost a step or something, which to me is absurd.
 
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