Atlanta Journal column on UK football
- Thread starter Ldgator
- Start date
"Here’s the thing about Kentucky’s football program: It only seems to lack interest in relation to the rest of the SEC: Last year Kentucky’s home attendance was second-worst in the SEC, but would have ranked third in the ACC or Big 12."
That says a lot.
That says a lot.
how many different ways can we be rhetorically nut punched in one short, ostensibly friendly, article...alot.
I can assure you that the AJC does not have an unbiased sports department. Two of their favorite targets are GaTech and UK. And Mark Richt will soon be nominated for sainthood...
Meh. If we want respect around the conference, we have to start beating people. Do that, and everything else will take care of itself.
Painful, just painful..encompasses a lot of Kentucky football's historical ills in a short (painfully true) article:
-a surprisingly passionate football fanbase that deserves better
-a basketball commitment that hurts the football program (and causes the rest of the SEC not to take us seriously)
-SEC media that laugh at Kentucky's media for caring about basketball
-shockingly low expectations from our players which are a big part of the reason we continually struggle (have to say I'm disappointed that Stamps said "6 wins is all we gotta get"..I was hoping he had more of a winning mentality than that, but it appears he's already been adversely influenced)
Just a really painful article (mainly because it's true)..makes me really mad to even read it honestly..brings up points that I constantly harp on like a broken record:
-basketball hurts Kentucky football and the perception of the program
-low expectations hurt Kentucky
-we have a football fanbase that deserve much, much better
As I've said time and time again, if we don't take a step forward this year, it won't be because of talent..it'll be because of the culture of mediocrity and low expectations (which this article painfully illustrates in a short and sweet manner)
Trust me, if completely neutral media are noticing these things, it should tell you a thing or two (and no, I seriously doubt the media in Atlanta are "out to get" Kentucky..they're simply typing what they see (which should be an eye-opener if you're a Kentucky football fan that completely neutral people are noticing these obvious negative traits..it's not like they having something to gain by ripping Kentucky..we're not exactly their rival)
What I'm saying might make you mad (heck it makes me mad) but here's the thing: I'm going to tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear..fans of historically mediocre programs develop coping mechanisms which include lowering expectations, lying to yourself, and being overly optimistic..we constantly have to guard against that..and no, being realistic and not being happy with mediocrity doesn't mean you're a microwave fan despite what some will have you believe..there's a difference between not giving a coaching staff enough time (which has never happened to a coach in the history of Kentucky football by the way) and not being satisfied with mediocrity
Putting "Kentucky football fan" and "microwave fan" or "unrealistic expectations" in the same sentence is like putting "dynamite" and "peaceful" in the same sentence..it just doesn't belong. Kentucky football fans are guilty of many things, but "unfair expectations" or "putting too much pressure on a coach" aren't one of them
Last edited:
This.
13th highest attendance. 13th best team. Seems our fans and team are kind of on the same page. I do wish ticket sales were going a little better than they are ... but if this team pulls a surprise or two early on, our fans will be there.
people can't get tickets to seats that don't exist...i mean on the most optimistic of occurrences, our stadium won't hold enough to be number six in the conference, attendance wise. i think the fans have been way ahead of the team many years...save Jokers last year, anyway, where I would say they were roughly equal.
anyway, i just don't see how basketball has to be a problem for football. i much prefer football, but hell, i love watching basketball too.
anyway, i just don't see how basketball has to be a problem for football. i much prefer football, but hell, i love watching basketball too.
A long standing culture such as exist around UK football is a very difficult thing to change. It's my hope Stamps meant it's all we need for a bowl bid, but while every part of Stoops' job is challenging changing that culture may top the list. All of us agonized over the loss to Florida last year and one of the reasons I did was that win could have gone a long way towards beginning to change the culture. The win over SC helped, but in was in Lexington. The Cat's were minutes, heck maybe seconds from winning 2 games on the road which would have redefined last year, the Florida and UL games. I'm hoping this year they get over that hump, and that culture starts to change for good.
There is no correlation. Michigan stadium holds 110K.....they averaged 105K last year, 3rd in the country and went 5-7.
Rightly or wrongly I think attendance is a factor in how some view our football program, including recruits. We were top 25 in the nation in attendance for a lot of our recent years with a pretty poor product, if we do have a great improvement in our product (I think we will) and have a sellout every game we won't have as many fans at the games as we had at some of our recent break even teams. Just a physical impossibility.
I think downsizing Commonwealth was a step back in several ways, and even if we have sellouts for the next few years it will take quite a while to regain the seating we lost. And yes, with this crew it is all about the money.
Now only ahead of Vandy and their ancient thirty some thousand stadium in the SEC, and probably soon to fall behind that city college down the road.
I think downsizing Commonwealth was a step back in several ways, and even if we have sellouts for the next few years it will take quite a while to regain the seating we lost. And yes, with this crew it is all about the money.
Now only ahead of Vandy and their ancient thirty some thousand stadium in the SEC, and probably soon to fall behind that city college down the road.
What was that, an article or just somebody's notes? All you have to do is win, that's it. When it gets right down to it, the only team that "won" last year was Ohio State. They were the champs, everybody else, including their beloved Dawgs & Alabama were losers.
Spica Orbit
Spica Orbit
I do have a problem with UK players saying "6 wins is all we have to get." It is likely true that 6 or 7 wins is the ceiling for this team this season, but I want the players going into every game believing they can win them all. Without that confidence a team will get to 5 or 6 wins and run out of gas. It's one thing for fans to have realistic expectations, it's another thing for players to expect and accept losses.
One thing is a given in every fan base, anything the school does or does not do will have some percentage of fans bawling like babies. Hope Stoops, Cal and Mitch put on the blinders and ear muffs and keep up the good work.
Nice post, and basketball should be a plus (and I think it is) for football, more money to support the minor but required sports and a lot of athletes like to watch world class athletes in another sport, that many of them had played in high school. Funny how UK pouring million into basketball has actually been a good investment over the years, but the powers that be couldn't recognize that investing more than minimum maintenance in the real money cow wouldn't have returned even more on the investment.
And Joker's last year attendance was not just a product of a team that had been run into the ground but also a protest of the dismal support it had received for decades, and probably the worse support was in the decade prior to the strike.
That some recruits view attendance as a measure of the program doesn't mean that they're aren't plenty who put the staff, the atmosphere they create, & their workout facilities ahead of attendance. The lost seats were mainly student seating. And they're a problem for many schools. Different world. Net though, didn't cost UK much to lose those & they probably gained more $ between the new suites & club. Also for money, TV is the big source & Vandy gets the same as AL/A&M/LSU/TN/GA/FL. and so does UK.
Don't see how Kentucky's passionate interest in basketball should hurt the football program. They need to keep investing more into it, and do a better job publicizing it. Just because most of the rest of the conference is too stupid to follow two sports passionately doesnt mean Kentucky has to sacrifice passion for basketball to do better in football. The football program can be elevated and not at the expense of anything else.
It's atmosphere that sells recruits, not # of seats. Recruits aren't looking up those lists anyway.
It we win, and pack the stadium it won't matter if we're 5k less than before. That's silly.
---
100% correct SDcf13. The AJC could also ask why the rest of the SEC can't produce basketball teams above YMCA levels. The SEC's effort in that area is truly embarrassing. I know that football pays the bills, but UK is now actually making an effort to have two very good major sports. The administration lost a lot of good fans, me included, during the Joker era & it's going to really take an effort to get them back, but I've never felt better about the football program, than I do now. The AJC article should have been published 4 years ago, not now.
Spica Orbit
You are kidding right? Everytime one of our kids that makes a mistake its on the frontpage in the headlines, I swear they have a reporter in the Athens police department. Tech players get arrested for drug trafficing and it doesn't make the paper. They cover Georgia, but UGA fans outnumber GT fans by about 30 to 1, Tech probably isn't in the top 5 fanbases in Atlanta, but they are not biased to UGA and coaches take plenty of heat, its almost like they are overcompensating for being UGA grads.
I don't know about all recruits, but it does play a part in some, I have read lots of reports about what it felt like at UT to run on the field with 100K+ screaming, but I don't think its a high percentage of them.
UK threw away tons of long suffering fans with their non-support of football compared to the other teams in the conference, that are making tons of money from football because they invested in it. Those fans in a lot of cases were long time fans that had great tickets in the family for generations, that were fed up with a lot of things, recruiting budget, retaining DCs that should have been fired to save the buyout, having the HC (Brooks) pay part of his salary to retain what he thought (pretty knowledgeable about football) was a pretty good recruiter and OC, recruiting budgets less for 25 commits than for typically 4 in bb (not that many early departures then), operating budget for 85 rides about the same as for 13, HUGE disparity in facilities, a "recruiting room" that was a disgrace that they couldn't even bother to carpet the floor or replace the folding chairs, refusal to accept donations designated for football only, the list is long and disgusting.
Those fans will be hard to regain, a lot older and introduced to the wonders of high definition TV, no long drive home, a beer for CONSIDERABLY less than $5.00, lots of advantages, not to mention long trips being harder on older folks. A lot of those fans are gone forever, still fans, but not at the games. They will be replaced, but not overnight, by younger fans that have a lot of things to spend their money on, and that will probably not ever be as devoted to the team and not nearly as tolerant of watching a team not able to compete, all kinds of exceptions of course, a lot of them on here.
To build a fan base like the old one UK will have to shell out the money to be competitive, and they have a good start on doing that now. If UK does have a breakout year and continue recruiting at a high level the fans will come back, but while season ticket sales will suffer from decreased capacity I think any fan that really wants to see a game can get in by showing up early and taking a chance, sometimes even at a discount. But even if you can get in the games with reduced seating I believe that a larger capacity leads to more attendance, most fans want to know they have a seat waiting for them AND their entourage, and will buy season tickets even if they can't make all the games.
Pretty much agree with this. The new training facility will be a much more attractive feature to prospective players than the remodeled stadium.
However, I do agree with ja that downsizing the stadium (at least to the extent it was done) was a "mistake". It is not like 67,000 is huge. I simply cannot see why they had to physically lose as many good south side seats as they are to achieve the desired goals (i.e., more suites and club seating). The student section is merely being "right sized" (i.e., approximately being cut in half) but most of the seats physically being lost are "good" seats from the south side.
Peace
Agreed. Attendance is the most overrated measure of a program. Keep in mind the construction of the stadium also hurt our numbers some.
Any other team, with the possible exception of auburn, would have suffered the same lack of media attention with Alabama around as Kentucky did.
Kentucky will garner some media attention if it wins three games in the SEC this year.
Kentucky will garner some media attention if it wins three games in the SEC this year.
There are expansion plans for CWS should the need arise. It is very easy to go from 60K to 80K. One point I'd like to make is the Nutter Center and Field House was the absolute state of the art facilities in the 80s. That was the statement of the time. However, yet again, there was little support to hire a coach after Jerry Claiborne that could have utilized the leverage of those facilities. Everyone knows the history from then to now.
So, we now have the facilities, the coaches and the players to take this program forward. All we as fans have to do is our part and the program lose only one element on the glory road: the losing culture.
So, we now have the facilities, the coaches and the players to take this program forward. All we as fans have to do is our part and the program lose only one element on the glory road: the losing culture.
Just goes to show you how high a bar the SEC sets.
You can have good recruiting and attendence rankings on a national scale, but still rank at the bottom of the conference. Your numbers may be killer if you were in a different conference. However, the SEC doesn't play around and takes things to the extreme (ie stadium size, money spent, money raised, etc.).
In Stamps' defense, in his interview w/Maria Taylor (on ESPN), she asked him where the team was in regards to building the program, and what that meant for this upcoming season. He responded that a bowl game and SEC championship were the goals...it sounded more like the bowl game was "minimal" expectations.
Blame history, blame basketball( which is a joke) or poor players. As goes recruiting so goes wins.
Stoops is correcting the recruiting problems but untill his recruits reach their junior and senior years a dramatic change won't occur.
Count on the media reports and you will forever be misinformed.
Stoops is correcting the recruiting problems but untill his recruits reach their junior and senior years a dramatic change won't occur.
Count on the media reports and you will forever be misinformed.
I think the Michigan attendance being over 100,000 average is due in large part to their huge stadium, which has built up a large following due to the money it has brought in to build a great program. But then 5-7 is nothing like 2-10, with no conference wins, in fact I think most would agree that our 5-7 record last year was a giant step up from the 2-10 the previous two seasons.
I'm not sure that anyone on here would argue that attendance is more important than the staff, atmosphere, and facilities, but I think a lot would agree that it is a factor to some, as Grumpy said. And I agree that the new corporate boxes will generate more income, in fact that was really the only factor with this AD in kicking some fans out, more money, but football doesn't need more money now really, with the $30M plus deal for ancillary rights or whatever, the SEC distribution which is out of sight, and the ability to finance about a quarter million loan so you can spend half of it on football facilities UK football doesn't need any more money.
And maybe some of the dumb profs that dislike football will wake up some day and realize what great things it is doing for UK academically.
i dont know how much i believe those #'s for michigan. i watched 2 of their home games last year and no way was that place over 80% full. granted, tickets sold and all... blah blah blah... but no way they had over 80,000 in at least 2 games last year. and if those 2 were low no way that some of their scrub games late were over 100,000.
There tends to be a year lag between performance and ticket sales (for obvious reasons) ... Michigan attendance (at least paid attendance) held on pretty well last season, but if they hadn't done away with Brandon and Hoke they would have been in a world of hurt trying to fill The Big House this fall.
Of course there is Idle interest in Kentucky football we haven't had a winning record since 1977 in the SEC. I just wish basketball was not brought up all the time about in football articles, its just lazy to writing. But until we start winning some SEC games all the improvements mean nothing.
The only unfair part of the article from my perspective is the fans in the lobby. Of course there were Alabama fans there ... IT IS IN BIRMINGHAM. Why would UK fans drive to Hoover to see Coach and players they can see in Lexington? That was a pretty dumb argument, IMO.
And our attendance has been good save Joker's last year. We averaged 66k+ from 2007-10 and from 1999-2011 it was over 60,000 all but one year. Not bad for a team without a lot of winning years.
And our attendance has been good save Joker's last year. We averaged 66k+ from 2007-10 and from 1999-2011 it was over 60,000 all but one year. Not bad for a team without a lot of winning years.
Kentucky has probably the worst economy in the "south" , also, one of the smallest and most aged population's of the sec states. These demographic factors also must be taken into account when wondering why our stadium capacity/attendence is lower than the vast majority of our SEC brethren.
Latest posts
-
-
Rewatching the 2nd half from the 10 min mark to the 8 min mark
- Latest: Disappointed Cat
-
-
-