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A national champion…

MdWIldcat55

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Dec 9, 2007
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…charged by the NCAA and found guilty on appeal of loss of institutional control, of having a coach who directly participated in cheating, of buying players and so on. All this besides recruiting multiple players in recent years charged with battering women and other crimes.

They beat a program shown by an NCAA investigation to have players for nearly two decades kept eligible by given grades for no work and no attendance at classes that didn’t exist. The loophole by which it escaped punishment? That it was up to each university to say what it considered right, and UNC said totally fake grades did not violate its academic standards or honor system.

This is the state of college basketball and it is a damned disgrace.

As disappointing as this season was for Kentucky, no one has charged the coach or any of the players with unethical behavior during Calipari’s tenure. In fact, these Cats showed strong character on and off the court, notably in raising millions of dollars for tornado victims in western Kentucky.

Given the state of college basketball, having a clean program and players who behave in ways worthy of respect is worth something.
 
You’re correct that he hasn’t had wins vacated at Kentucky, but the Commonwealth is paying about $10,000,000.00 per year to Cal. Not getting busted should be the bare minimum requirement for that salary, not something to brag about.
Is funny how Cal has been here 13 years with everyone saying we’d get burned due to his “cheating”. Not one dangissue.

Meanwhile everywhere else.

This tournament was perfect. The NCAA has to give a title to Kansas while acknowledging they cheated their ass off in previous years.

FBI would have a field day if they were tiulry let floods to investigate the whole damn thing.
 
You’re correct that he hasn’t had wins vacated at Kentucky, but the Commonwealth is paying about $10,000,000.00 per year to Cal. Not getting busted should be the bare minimum requirement for that salary, not something to brag about.
I guess it comes down to how much it matters for you that Kentucky is clean. I’m old enough to have lived through that scandal in the 1980s over a tiny fraction of what Kansas or UNC did. I don’t want the feeling of supporting cheaters.

By the way, no one is bragging. I said it was a disappointing season. But it is always worth keeping perspective.

One other point: This insinuation that “Kentucky just hasn’t been busted” is nonsense and easily dismissed. You think Kentucky and Calipari are not ripe targets that plenty of journalists and rival coaches and others wouldn’t knock down if they could? Kentucky is CLEAN until someone raises a credible allegation, which hasn’t happened in 35 years.
 
I guess it comes down to how much it matters for you that Kentucky is clean. I’m old enough to have lived through that scandal in the 1980s over a tiny fraction of what Kansas or UNC did. I don’t want the feeling of supporting cheaters.

By the way, no one is bragging. I said it was a disappointing season. But it is always worth keeping perspective.
You’re just trying to take the focus off how bad of a job Cal is doing. He hasn‘t had any significant wins on the court in years that you can use to support him. The only thing you have left is to act like him not getting busted is something to celebrate instead of the minimum level of conduct we should expect at Kentucky.
 
Is funny how Cal has been here 13 years with everyone saying we’d get burned due to his “cheating”. Not one dangissue.

Meanwhile everywhere else.

This tournament was perfect. The NCAA has to give a title to Kansas while acknowledging they cheated their ass off in previous years.

FBI would have a field day if they were tiulry let floods to investigate the whole damn thing.
Watch the documentary The Scheme and you’ll see how much of this was FBI entrapment and their idea to pay coaches instead of what handlers were doing- paying the family..

They’re all dirty. You just found out about some.
 
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Is funny how Cal has been here 13 years with everyone saying we’d get burned due to his “cheating”. Not one dangissue.

Meanwhile everywhere else.

This tournament was perfect. The NCAA has to give a title to Kansas while acknowledging they cheated their ass off in previous years.

FBI would have a field day if they were tiulry let floods to investigate the whole damn thing.
FBI is as corrupt as Kansas
 
given the make up of the final four, I think it was about the best outcome

Villanova denied another championship, Coach K doesn't get to go out on a high note and it actually turns into a nightmare scenario for him by losing to UNC twice in meaningful games, UNC can't gain one more championship on us and Kansas wins which is meaningless to me. Assuming they do end up getting games stripped away - that was about the best situation UK could hope for, IMO

As for the primary topic, people forget this
 
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…charged by the NCAA and found guilty on appeal of loss of institutional control, of having a coach who directly participated in cheating, of buying players and so on. All this besides recruiting multiple players in recent years charged with battering women and other crimes.

They beat a program shown by an NCAA investigation to have players for nearly two decades kept eligible by given grades for no work and no attendance at classes that didn’t exist. The loophole by which it escaped punishment? That it was up to each university to say what it considered right, and UNC said totally fake grades did not violate its academic standards or honor system.

This is the state of college basketball and it is a damned disgrace.

As disappointing as this season was for Kentucky, no one has charged the coach or any of the players with unethical behavior during Calipari’s tenure. In fact, these Cats showed strong character on and off the court, notably in raising millions of dollars for tornado victims in western Kentucky.

Given the state of college basketball, having a clean program and players who behave in ways worthy of respect is worth something.
So after 13 years, tens of millions of dollars in salary, and hundreds of games played as a sample size, the last bullet in the official "our coach is still awesome" gun is the same one that Bob Knight used at the end of his career? At least we don't cheat like those other guys.

Let's start hanging ethics banners in Rupp Arena, because that's evidently what we're playing for these days.
 
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given the make up of the final four, I think it was about the best outcome

Villanova denied another championship, Coach K doesn't get to go out on a high not and it actually turns into a nightmare scenario for him by losing to UNC twice in meaningful games, UNC can't gain one more championship on us and Kansas wins which is meaningless to me. Assuming they do end up getting games stripped away - that was about the best situation UK could hope for, IMO

As for the primary topic, people forget this
This.
 
So after 13 years, tens of millions of dollars in salary, and hundreds of games played as a sample size, the last bullet in the official "our coach is still awesome" gun is the same one that Bob Knight used at the end of us career? At least we don't cheat like those other guys.

Let's start hanging ethics banners in Rupp Arena, because that's evidently what we're playing for these days.
Last I saw we were a top 5 team in 2 of the last 4 years and are projected to be number one next year if Oscar comes back. Yep, Cal is a horrible coach...
 
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for them Cal could take a dump on the UK logo center court and they'll still talk about he is the only guy for UK
The good news is that their group has shrunk significantly over the last few years. What remains is a last remnant of slightly-objective fans, a large number of folks who would be candidates for Stockholm Syndrome, and a bunch of trolls and contrarians posing as real Kentucky fans.

I don't feel like I've seen one objectively sound pro-Calipari argument on this message board in over a year, and I'm usually willing to concede to good points. What I have seen is a bunch of deflection and whining about other programs cheating.
 
Kansas has hired Rick Pitino and Tom Jurich as grief counselors in anticipation of the vacation of their new title.
A back-up Helms title banner is currently in production...
 
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That article says the players were targeted by a guy linked to cheating, not that they or Kentucky did anything wrong.

I can understand Kentucky fans being outraged by the way the season ended, and being sick of Calipari and wanting him gone. I have no beef with that. But for a Kentucky fan to fall for the bullish!t being put out by those who hate us that “cheating doesn’t matter - everyone does it and some just get caught” makes no sense to me. It legitimizes a false narrative created by fans of cheating programs like U6, Kansas and UNC to excuse what they did.

The facts are the facts and no one has leveled one CREDIBLE charge of cheating or of players who behave in ugly and illegal ways against Kentucky.
tell me that Duke is clean too
 
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That article says the players were targeted by a guy linked to cheating, not that they or Kentucky did anything wrong.

I can understand Kentucky fans being outraged by the way the season ended, and being sick of Calipari and wanting him gone. I have no beef with that. But for a Kentucky fan to fall for the bullish!t being put out by those who hate us that “cheating doesn’t matter - everyone does it and some just get caught” makes no sense to me. It legitimizes a false narrative created by fans of cheating programs like U6, Kansas and UNC to excuse what they did.

The facts are the facts and no one has leveled one CREDIBLE charge of cheating or of players who behave in ugly and illegal ways against Kentucky.
No, I think you’re very naive to the reality of college athletics and think your favorite team hasn’t been shady as well which they undoubtedly have been because it’s the entire industry. Even those who have lived in Lexington or been around players could tell you some stories over the years.

This idea that the teams you hate do it but not your favorite team is exactly like those in the two political bases who think the other one is dirty but not their politicians when in reality it’s both).

The only reason you know the Kansas and Arizona stuff is because a criminal cut a deal and then got the fbi involved to go undercover and then talk Dawkins and his money guy to start giving money to coaches (who the feds considered a public official) instead of the families of players (which isn’t illegal and has been going on forever).

All of these programs have runners and in-betweens so they can have plausible deniability. You think the best recruits in the country go to other programs for cheating but came to Kentucky the first handful of Cal years why? Tradition? Lol

“If anyone thinks that there is such a thing as a clean big-time program, they need to wake up and smell the donkey s---,” Code wrote in his book. “Somewhere along the line, even the so-called cleanest of programs has some dirt if you look close enough.” - Merl Code (involved in the FBI NCAAB scandal) Full article here

Code gladly supplied the grocery money to Lee Anderson then, just as he jumped in to secure a five-figure payment for Anthony Davis during his one season as a superstar at Kentucky.

Code was in on the ground floor with Davis as a rising phenom in Chicago, getting to know the family well. Code wrote that early in Davis’s time at Kentucky, in the fall of 2011, his father, “Big Ant,” was laid off from his job and the family was financially unstable. Here came Nike to the rescue, via Code.

“When I was on the pro side at Nike, I made numerous trips to Kentucky to see guys like Rajon Rondo, Eric Bledsoe, John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins and a few others. I had some solid relationships with folks in Lexington, so the first call I made was to a former assistant athletic director. He was no longer working in that capacity, but he was superconnected to some heavy hitters. …

“He thought on it and came back to me with a creative idea. He knew some guys that ran an apparel shop. ‘What if they created a T-shirt design? Would the family be okay if they got a healthy amount of the profits from the sales, so long as they don’t come back and sue us? We wanna make a play on his unibrow.’”

Shirts were designed and produced, and sales were brisk. “On Dec. 9, my guy in Lexington called me and said, ‘They’ve had some movement, made some sales. They’ve got 10 grand for the family right now. How do you wanna handle it?’ “

The next day, Kentucky was playing at Indiana in a big showdown game. Code says he drove from Chicago to Bloomington, met the assistant athletic director, received an envelope of cash and then delivered it to Davis’s mom before the game.
“These are really good people,” Code wrote. “That kid and his family deserved an opportunity to live without constantly worrying about keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table, especially while AD was generating tens of millions of dollars for everyone except himself. … I have no qualms about what we did to help them. Now, with athletes being permitted to profit off their names, images and likenesses, I actually feel vindicated in helping that family in the way that we did. It was the right thing to do—to hell with what the NCAA would have said at the time.”

Beyond that particular fundraising effort, some competitors in the college basketball world did not like the way Nike catered to Kentucky. Code wrote that he couldn’t much blame them. He recalled one particularly angry call from then Florida coach Billy Donovan.

Code’s recollection of Donovan’s rant: “I’m sick and tired of this bulls---! You motherf----rs keep helping Kentucky! This shit is ridiculous. I’m gonna call [Nike cofounder] Phil Knight personally to talk about this s--- because it’s getting out of hand.”

Code wrote: “I stayed quiet while Billy vented, because I knew there was some truth in what he was saying. With John Calipari getting an overabundance of the top recruits in the country at the time, Florida and every other program were fighting for scraps. One of the worst-kept secrets in the business was Nike’s emphasis on helping Kentucky and Oregon, Phil Knight’s alma mater, with everyone else falling in line after.”
 
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Last I saw we were a top 5 team in 2 of the last 4 years and are projected to be number one next year if Oscar comes back. Yep, Cal is a horrible coach...
When did we start hanging banners for rankings?
 
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…charged by the NCAA and found guilty on appeal of loss of institutional control, of having a coach who directly participated in cheating, of buying players and so on. All this besides recruiting multiple players in recent years charged with battering women and other crimes.

They beat a program shown by an NCAA investigation to have players for nearly two decades kept eligible by given grades for no work and no attendance at classes that didn’t exist. The loophole by which it escaped punishment? That it was up to each university to say what it considered right, and UNC said totally fake grades did not violate its academic standards or honor system.

This is the state of college basketball and it is a damned disgrace.

As disappointing as this season was for Kentucky, no one has charged the coach or any of the players with unethical behavior during Calipari’s tenure. In fact, these Cats showed strong character on and off the court, notably in raising millions of dollars for tornado victims in western Kentucky.

Given the state of college basketball, having a clean program and players who behave in ways worthy of respect is worth something.
1st The reason UNC didn’t get penalized was because that program started the last year of Dean Smiths career. 2nd If NCAA doesn’t take championship away from Self and Kansas what would be explanation to Louisville. Putting Emmert (no nads) in charge years ago was the problem because he was a University president (political) and little knowledge of Athletics.
 
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You’re correct that he hasn’t had wins vacated at Kentucky, but the Commonwealth is paying about $10,000,000.00 per year to Cal. Not getting busted should be the bare minimum requirement for that salary, not something to brag about.
My understanding is the Commonwealth is paying $400,000 of his salary. The majority of his salary is paid by JMI the schools marketing partner. I know some would say he's not even worth the $400k but might as well get the facts out here.


 
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No, I think you’re very naive to the reality of college athletics and think your favorite team hasn’t been shady as well which they undoubtedly have been because it’s the entire industry. Even those who have lived in Lexington or been around players could tell you some stories over the years.

This idea that the teams you hate do it but not your favorite team is exactly like those in the two political bases who think the other one is dirty but not their politicians when in reality it’s both).

The only reason you know the Kansas and Arizona stuff is because a criminal cut a deal and then got the fbi involved to go undercover and then talk Dawkins and his money guy to start giving money to coaches (who the feds considered a public official) instead of the families of players (which isn’t illegal and has been going on forever).

All of these programs have runners and in-betweens so they can have plausible deniability. You think the best recruits in the country go to other programs for cheating but came to Kentucky the first handful of Cal years why? Tradition? Lol

“If anyone thinks that there is such a thing as a clean big-time program, they need to wake up and smell the donkey s---,” Code wrote in his book. “Somewhere along the line, even the so-called cleanest of programs has some dirt if you look close enough.” - Merl Code (involved in the FBI NCAAB scandal) Full article here

Code gladly supplied the grocery money to Lee Anderson then, just as he jumped in to secure a five-figure payment for Anthony Davis during his one season as a superstar at Kentucky.

Code was in on the ground floor with Davis as a rising phenom in Chicago, getting to know the family well. Code wrote that early in Davis’s time at Kentucky, in the fall of 2011, his father, “Big Ant,” was laid off from his job and the family was financially unstable. Here came Nike to the rescue, via Code.

“When I was on the pro side at Nike, I made numerous trips to Kentucky to see guys like Rajon Rondo, Eric Bledsoe, John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins and a few others. I had some solid relationships with folks in Lexington, so the first call I made was to a former assistant athletic director. He was no longer working in that capacity, but he was superconnected to some heavy hitters. …

“He thought on it and came back to me with a creative idea. He knew some guys that ran an apparel shop. ‘What if they created a T-shirt design? Would the family be okay if they got a healthy amount of the profits from the sales, so long as they don’t come back and sue us? We wanna make a play on his unibrow.’”

Shirts were designed and produced, and sales were brisk. “On Dec. 9, my guy in Lexington called me and said, ‘They’ve had some movement, made some sales. They’ve got 10 grand for the family right now. How do you wanna handle it?’ “

The next day, Kentucky was playing at Indiana in a big showdown game. Code says he drove from Chicago to Bloomington, met the assistant athletic director, received an envelope of cash and then delivered it to Davis’s mom before the game.
“These are really good people,” Code wrote. “That kid and his family deserved an opportunity to live without constantly worrying about keeping a roof over their heads and food on the table, especially while AD was generating tens of millions of dollars for everyone except himself. … I have no qualms about what we did to help them. Now, with athletes being permitted to profit off their names, images and likenesses, I actually feel vindicated in helping that family in the way that we did. It was the right thing to do—to hell with what the NCAA would have said at the time.”

Beyond that particular fundraising effort, some competitors in the college basketball world did not like the way Nike catered to Kentucky. Code wrote that he couldn’t much blame them. He recalled one particularly angry call from then Florida coach Billy Donovan.

Code’s recollection of Donovan’s rant: “I’m sick and tired of this bulls---! You motherf----rs keep helping Kentucky! This shit is ridiculous. I’m gonna call [Nike cofounder] Phil Knight personally to talk about this s--- because it’s getting out of hand.”

LOL at you if you think the FBI didn’t try to catch UK in this. Yes it was mostly Adidas schools, but Merl Code worked for both Adidas and Nike. The worst thing he said in his book was that he helped get some money to Anthony Davis’ family AFTER he started playing because they were fairly poor and could not afford trips to Lexington to see Anthony play.

That’s a whole universe away from Bill Self ringing up the Adidas rep and ordering up some players.

Some of this crap did directly affect UK too. How about imagining the 2014 team with Andrew Wiggins? Even Self acted surprised when Wiggins announced he was going to KU. We had people here with firsthand knowledge assuring us he was coming to UK, even on the morning of his announcement.

Do you think maybe Zion Williamson didn’t come to UK because Kansas offered him $100k and he decided to go get paid at Duke? He was also expected to sign with UK. Think he might have helped that team get past Auburn in the E8 game?

These things are often cited as recruiting failures by Cal. Would we even be arguing about him today if he had won titles with Wiggins in 2014 and Williamson in 2019? Nope.
 
LOL at you if you think the FBI didn’t try to catch UK in this. Yes it was mostly Adidas schools, but Merl Code worked for both Adidas and Nike. The worst thing he said in his book was that he helped get some money to Anthony Davis’ family AFTER he started playing because they were fairly poor and could not afford trips to Lexington to see Anthony play.

That’s a whole universe away from Bill Self ringing up the Adidas rep and ordering up some players.

Some of this crap did directly affect UK too. How about imagining the 2014 team with Andrew Wiggins? Even Self acted surprised when Wiggins announced he was going to KU. We had people here with firsthand knowledge assuring us he was coming to UK, even on the morning of his announcement.

Do you think maybe Zion Williamson didn’t come to UK because Kansas offered him $100k and he decided to go get paid at Duke? He was also expected to sign with UK. Think he might have helped that team get past Auburn in the E8 game?

These things are often cited as recruiting failures by Cal. Would we even be arguing about him today if he had won titles with Wiggins in 2014 and Williamson in 2019? Nope.
I'd say the timing of the investigation is a pretty big impact considering it didn't start until 2017. Let's look at how this would have went before our relationship with Nike soured. It's also a matter of who Dawkins was talking to on his cell phone. Again, is Coach K implicated in anything? Has Duke been involved in cheating?

So I just wanna be clear here. We have never been shady, done anything shady to get a player or pay his family and only our rivals have done it? All of our players came here because of Cal's expertise and Kentucky's tradition?
 
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My understanding is the Commonwealth is paying $400,000 of his salary. The majority of his salary is paid by JMI the schools marketing partner. I know some would say he's not even worth the $400k but might as well get the facts out here.



UK’s Athletics department is also one of the only ones that is not only self sustaining, but actually GIVES money back to the University.

It’s just silly to keep bringing up Cal’s salary. He’s being paid a lot right now because UK felt it needed to put any and all future NBA rumors to bed, it WAS hurting recruiting and creating unnecessary distractions every time a NBA coach was fired or retired.

Wonder what an accounting would look like of the money brought in by the basketball program through ticket sales, merch, and tournament shares since 2010.
 
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The good news is that their group has shrunk significantly over the last few years. What remains is a last remnant of slightly-objective fans, a large number of folks who would be candidates for Stockholm Syndrome, and a bunch of trolls and contrarians posing as real Kentucky fans.

I don't feel like I've seen one objectively sound pro-Calipari argument on this message board in over a year, and I'm usually willing to concede to good points. What I have seen is a bunch of deflection and whining about other programs cheating.
Man, read something last night about the state of our program and damn! Nothing new to me really, but hopefully it opens eyes of many people over on HOB. So many people clinging onto Cal at UK and he isn’t the same coach or recruiter that he used to be. We aren’t the same program either. Was stated that the UK program’s brand was stale.

Was also talking about how damn bad our offense is and was toward the end of this season. So many want to point to our offensive efficiency rating. That rating was largely due to Oscar’s rebounding prowess. Just crazy to me that we don’t run anything for a backdoor cut, nothing to get people open. No OOB plays.

Watched the UK-UMass game from 1995-96 yesterday. It absolutely blew my mind. Was the first time watching it on a regular TV, our 65 inch flat screen. Anyway, Cal actually pressed a good portion of that game. He ran OOB plays. He played a ZONE! Ran traps at the ball handler. Also, UMass shot like 22-26 from the line. Now, why doesn’t he do that here?!

What a terrible whistle we got in that game. It was really unreal. Have watched it a couple times before, but on my phone. After watching it on a 65 inch screen, I was floored at the one sided whistle we got in that game. Pitino was losing his mind! 🤣
 
I'd say the timing of the investigation is a pretty big impact considering it didn't start until 2017. Let's look at how this would have went before our relationship with Nike soured. It's also a matter of who Dawkins was talking to on his cell phone. Again, is Coach K implicated in anything? Has Duke been involved in cheating?

So I just wanna be clear here. We have never been shady, done anything shady to get a player or pay his family and only our rivals have done it? All of our players came here because of Cal's expertise and Kentucky's tradition?

No they came to get ready for the NBA. Which is now one of the things apparently everyone hates about Cal.

This was the deal with the devil we all made very willingly. We wanted players like John Wall and Anthony Davis. We didn’t care much that they left after a year.

John Wall said he was offered money by other schools but he trusted that Cal would make sure he got the BIG money. It’s a pitch Cal made successfully to many players.

Bam Adebayo was mentioned in the FBI report. He committed to NC State, another school that got hit hard by the investigation and later by the NCAA. Was probably offered money by them and as we know his mom was dirt poor and he wanted to help her right away. Cal gave him the John Wall pitch and it worked.
 
No they came to get ready for the NBA. Which is now one of the things apparently everyone hates about Cal.

This was the deal with the devil we all made very willingly. We wanted players like John Wall and Anthony Davis. We didn’t care much that they left after a year.

John Wall said he was offered money by other schools but he trusted that Cal would make sure he got the BIG money. It’s a pitch Cal made successfully to many players.

Bam Adebayo was mentioned in the FBI report. He committed to NC State, another school that got hit hard by the investigation and later by the NCAA. Was probably offered money by them and as we know his mom was dirt poor and he wanted to help her right away. Cal gave him the John Wall pitch and it worked.
We aren’t landing players like that anymore. Not on a consistent basis anyway. Problem is, Cal makes everything about the NBA. Literally everything is geared towards the pros. If Sharpe doesn’t play next season, it’s gonna be a real gut punch. If we don’t get Oscar and Sharpe we are in real big trouble IMO.
 
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I recall some posters not being thrilled with Cal coming here in the first place because they were convinced he'd land on us probation

I was one of them. Some shady stuff happened while he was at Memphis. I didn’t think it was likely that he got Derrick Rose out of Chicago without some hanky panky. The whole World Wide Wes thing was smelly to me.
 
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Watched the UK-UMass game from 1995-96 yesterday. It absolutely blew my mind. Was the first time watching it on a regular TV, our 65 inch flat screen. Anyway, Cal actually pressed a good portion of that game. He ran OOB plays. He played a ZONE! Also, UMass shot like 22-26 from the line. Now, why doesn’t he do that here?!
If I had to guess its because you can teach a guy who has been with you for 3 years, but when you have a new group of guys every year, you have to go with the basics. Its why Cal doesn't want to play anyone ( remember his I'll take talent over experience comments back in his early years here?) in the OOC.

The whole "he plays for March mantra" was based on the idea that by the time March came around he'd have these guys playing the kind of basketball you mention seeing in the 90's, but it hasn't turned out like that, his plan has always been to have the most talent and their talent would overwhelm the opposing team.

Once his recruiting leveled off and the talent dispursed the world changed.

It seems fairly obvious that his inability to develop a well disciplined teamed because of turnover and inexperience is killing any chances he has to dominate in March - or February, or January, or.....

This year he had the most experienced team but even with all the high profile wins, in the end they were still a cobbled together team that got bit by a multitude of reasons, one of which had to be these guys had only played together less than 6 months.
 
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We aren’t landing players like that anymore. Not on a consistent basis anyway. Problem is, Cal makes everything about the NBA. Literally everything is geared towards the pros. If Sharpe doesn’t play next season, it’s gonna be a real gut punch. If we don’t get Oscar and Sharpe we are in real big trouble IMO.

Agree 100%.
 
I was one of them. Some shady stuff happened while he was at Memphis. I didn’t think it was likely that he got Derrick Rose out of Chicago without some hanky panky. The whole World Wide Wes thing was smelly to me.
So just to be clear, did you change your opinion on Cal or do you think Cal became clean once he was on the UK payroll because your previous defense of UK doesn't jibe with your thoughts on Cal when he first arrived.
 
The investigation into KU started more than four years ago. It's definitely hurt their recruiting since (until this year), but none of that should take away from what that team did last night... w/o a 5-star among them. It remains to be seen what exactly will come down from IARP... but there is no way that the championship can be vacated... and especially not if the NCAA is sincere in its recent mantra that past transgressions should not impact current athletes (I can't use student-athlete anymore; at least not at the highest level of collegiate sports)
The NCAA is inept... so is the IARP. All they have on KU is an ineligible player in DeSousa (sp?). Those games he played in should absolutely be vacated. To KUs credit they stopped playing him as soon as there were rumblings about it.
Preston was paid... but never played. KU held him out at the first sign that something was up... it's kinda hard to believe they would do that if they knew where the money was coming from... it leads me to think they didn't know (at least in his case).
Was shady stuff going on with shoe companies at the highest levels of college basketball?... obviously... and as stated several times above we apparently weren't above it (as much as we want to think we were).
Best case scenario... Kansas gets their DeSousa wins vacated before the IARP is disbanded (and it will be), and that's the end of it. No more investigations (as much as I would LOVE Duke to get theirs... it will cast a bright light on us too; the Code assertions) into prior acts that are now legal (or a least doable) under NIL.
 
If I had to guess its because you can teach a guy who has been with you for 3 years, but when you have a new group of guys every year, you have to go with the basics. Its why Cal doesn't want to play anyone ( remember his I'll take talent over experience comments back in his early years here?) in the OOC.

The whole "he plays for March mantra" was based on the idea that by the time March came around he'd have these guys playing the kind of basketball you mention seeing in the 90's, but it hasn't turned out like that, his plan has always been to have the most talent and their talent would overwhelm the opposing team.

Once his recruiting leveled off and the talent dispursed the world changed.

It seems fairly obvious that his inability to develop a well disciplined teamed because of turnover and inexperience is killing any chances he has to dominate in March - or February, or January, or.....

This year he had the most experienced team but even with all the high profile wins, in the end they were still a cobbled together team that got bit in the end by a multitude of reasons, one of which had to be these guys had only played together less than 6 months.
This is one good explanation and I agree. I also think that he puts so much emphasis on the NBA and everything is geared for that. I really think that’s the main reason he refuses to play a zone. This also coincides with having massive roster turnover year after year.
 
The good news is that their group has shrunk significantly over the last few years. What remains is a last remnant of slightly-objective fans, a large number of folks who would be candidates for Stockholm Syndrome, and a bunch of trolls and contrarians posing as real Kentucky fans.

I don't feel like I've seen one objectively sound pro-Calipari argument on this message board in over a year, and I'm usually willing to concede to good points. What I have seen is a bunch of deflection and whining about other programs cheating.

So, serious question: Did you completely agree that it was time for Tubby to go? I only ask because MANY of the arguments that were used by the Tubby honks to keep him are now being used against Cal. For example: Tubby fans argued that Tubby should be given consideration for his ONE title and his entire body of work. That was in response to some of saying the trend was going the wrong way. Now, with Cal, 4 FF's and 1 title aren't enough because of the last 7 seasons.

I expect consistent arguments and also logical arguments. MANY, not all, of the Cal bashers can't give either. Many of them were Tubby fans and they are not changing the criteria to judge a coach.
 
So, serious question: Did you completely agree that it was time for Tubby to go? I only ask because MANY of the arguments that were used by the Tubby honks to keep him are now being used against Cal. For example: Tubby fans argued that Tubby should be given consideration for his ONE title and his entire body of work. That was in response to some of saying the trend was going the wrong way. Now, with Cal, 4 FF's and 1 title aren't enough because of the last 7 seasons.

I expect consistent arguments and also logical arguments. MANY, not all, of the Cal bashers can't give either. Many of them were Tubby fans and they are not changing the criteria to judge a coach.
I was a huge Tubby supporter all the way until the end of his last season. Even then I didn't want to see him fired, simply because of how well he had done the job for a long time and had done it with such class. I found myself relieved when he left on his own, because I felt like it was time for the program to go a different direction. Tubby's program, much as I had liked him, had gone stale.
 
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