98 Cats & 25 Cats

[JonathanW]

We all loved the 98 title team. But honestly, they were a bunch of good but not great players. I see a lot of similarities in that team, and this team.


Smith 1st year, Pope 1st year. Both with minimal experience at a P5 school (Smith 2 yrs at UGA, Pope 1 B12 yr at BYU), before that both had been at mid-majors (4 & 8 yrs). Both following big names with big egos (RP & JC).

Butler, Turner. 4th/5th year guys known for their defense over offense, but had their moments on offense (like Butler buzzer-winner in F4), also 3pt shooting a weakness for both, both had been the starting PG in a National Title game.

Mohammad & Magloire, Williams & Garrison. All 4 big bodies, an upper classman paired with an underclassman. 1 more offensive oriented, the other more defensive.

Padgett, Carr. Long, not overly athletic, 3pt shooting stretch 4's, not a #1 option but solid #2-#3 options.

Sheppard, Robinson. Both scorers with something to prove, expected to be offensive leaders. Shep being in the shadows for 3+ years, Robinson not looking like he belonged at a P5 until last year.

The rest aren't really that comparable 1 on 1, but in looking at them as a group:
- Edwards, Evans, Mills, Saul, Bradley, Anthony, Hogan
- Oweh, Brea, Kriisa, Almonor, Chandler, Noah, Perry
I would pick those last 7 (24-25) over the prior 7 (97-98)

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Tubby had been to three sweet 16s, including 2 at mid major Tulsa by the time he got here. Not final fours pre UK like Cal and Pitino had but some tourney success at two non basketball schools.

 

[mcnicKY91]

We all loved the 98 title team. But honestly, they were a bunch of good but not great players. I see a lot of similarities in that team, and this team.


Smith 1st year, Pope 1st year. Both with minimal experience at a P5 school (Smith 2 yrs at UGA, Pope 1 B12 yr at BYU), before that both had been at mid-majors (4 & 8 yrs). Both following big names with big egos (RP & JC).

Butler, Turner. 4th/5th year guys known for their defense over offense, but had their moments on offense (like Butler buzzer-winner in F4), also 3pt shooting a weakness for both, both had been the starting PG in a National Title game.

Mohammad & Magloire, Williams & Garrison. All 4 big bodies, an upper classman paired with an underclassman. 1 more offensive oriented, the other more defensive.

Padgett, Carr. Long, not overly athletic, 3pt shooting stretch 4's, not a #1 option but solid #2-#3 options.

Sheppard, Robinson. Both scorers with something to prove, expected to be offensive leaders. Shep being in the shadows for 3+ years, Robinson not looking like he belonged at a P5 until last year.

The rest aren't really that comparable 1 on 1, but in looking at them as a group:
- Edwards, Evans, Mills, Saul, Bradley, Anthony, Hogan
- Oweh, Brea, Kriisa, Almonor, Chandler, Noah, Perry
I would pick those last 7 (24-25) over the prior 7 (97-98)

Interesting comparison.

I would point out that the majority of the '98 team had played together, both in games and in practice, for years. Unfortunately, we can't say the same about this year's version.

 

[blue cincy]

Great points. I agree with it. I do think Butler is much better offense than Turner. He had a hitch in his shot. Butler shot looks smooth. The style of play at SDSU kept his scoring down to under 10 a game. I also do not think scoring is big to him. He enjoys passing to get the better shots. He rebounds about as well as any PG I can remember at UK. Defense is just above all others that I can remember.

 

[sportspm]

The 98 team had final four and national championship experience. Even if they were reserves or didn’t play, they were on the team that played in back to back championship games. So that was experience that helped them for sure

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

Nazr and Jamaal big upgrade over what we have now. No comparison in my opinion. Nazr had a 17 year NBA career and was first rounder. Jamaal was 19th pick and played 12 years.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

I'm afraid the differences are more striking than the similarities, which are mostly superficial.

1. That 1998 team had TWO future NBA centers.
2. It had a core of players who had played on National Championship and Final Game teams.
3. Kentucky was preseason #8 in the AP Poll, and rose as high as #4 in late December.
4. It was a terrific rebounding team.
5. It was a great interior passing team.
6. It was a very strong defensive team.
7. The players had, for the most part, played together for a couple years.
8. The coach had been to the Sweet 16 with two other teams, and had just missed an Elite Eight two years earlier.

I'm not negative about this year's team. A strong case can be made that it is an overlooked team, with Tournament Sleeper capabilities.
But the things that made the 1998 team special were unique and I don't see them here.

 

[cathouse]

Tubby inherited a championship roster.
Pope inherited a steaming pile of crap from the last guy and a roster with zero players.

This team is more comparable to Pitino's first team, than Tubby's first team. At least Pitino had a few dedicated Kentucky boys come back to play for UK.

They were truly "Unforgettable", yet most people don't remember they were 14-14 that first year under Pitino.

 

[yoshukai]

I'm afraid the differences are more striking than the similarities, which are mostly superficial.

1. That 1998 team had TWO future NBA centers.
2. It had a core of players who had played on National Championship and Final Game teams.
3. Kentucky was preseason #8 in the AP Poll, and rose as high as #4 in late December.
4. It was a terrific rebounding team.
5. It was a great interior passing team.
6. It was a very strong defensive team.
7. The players had, for the most part, played together for a couple years.
8. The coach had been to the Sweet 16 with two other teams, and had just missed an Elite Eight two years earlier.

I'm not negative about this year's team. A strong case can be made that it is an overlooked team, with Tournament Sleeper capabilities.
But the things that made the 1998 team special were unique and I don't see them here.

Scott Padgett played 5/years in the nba . He’s not getting enough credit on here .

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Tubby inherited a championship roster.
Pope inherited a steaming pile of crap from the last guy and a roster with zero players.

This team is more comparable to Pitino's first team, than Tubby's first team. At least Pitino had a few dedicated Kentucky boys come back to play for UK.

They were truly "Unforgettable", yet most people don't remember they were 14-14 that first year under Pitino.

False. You are excluding the modernness of immediate transfer and NIL pay for play.
Ill leave it at that and show some class.
Take notes.

 

[KAB Cats]

The only thing I know for sure is that Pope will definitely NOT be winning a title with John Calipari's players.

 

[JonathanW]

Interesting comparison.

I would point out that the majority of the '98 team had played together, both in games and in practice, for years. Unfortunately, we can't say the same about this year's version.

Very valid point.
Although in this era, NO TEAM has that anymore. For example, Duke (who some on here think may be the favorite) has 2 guys that have played together, just 2 (I'm not counting the scrubs who won't play any). I think KU, UConn & Bama are the favorites in part because they have like 4 guys.

 

[JonathanW]

The 98 team had final four and national championship experience. Even if they were reserves or didn’t play, they were on the team that played in back to back championship games. So that was experience that helped them for sure

I think Turner was the only one who played in that 96 championship tournament, and he didn't play in the championship game.
But yes, there was a good bit of experience (5 guys + a WO who played) from the Runner-up team the year before

 

[JonathanW]

Tubby inherited a championship roster.
Pope inherited a steaming pile of crap from the last guy and a roster with zero players.

This team is more comparable to Pitino's first team, than Tubby's first team. At least Pitino had a few dedicated Kentucky boys come back to play for UK.

They were truly "Unforgettable", yet most people don't remember they were 14-14 that first year under Pitino.

No. Tubby didn't. That team was a top 15 team, not a top 5 team. They just got hot at the right time. There wasn't a star player on that team. Just several solid/good role players who knew & played their role well. Pitino didn't even think to leave or recruit a backup PG, forcing Tubby to bring in some mid-major recruit named Saul (which then hurt our recruiting a PG the next 3 years).

Pope didn't inherit crap, that would imply he interited bad players. His inheritance was nothing, so certainly less than Tubby. But it also afforded him, in the transfer portal era, plenty of room/positions/minutes to offer players to transfer in.

Not comparable at all to RP's 1st team, who simply were NOT talented. I remember that team well.

 

[NociHTTP]

No. Tubby didn't. That team was a top 15 team, not a top 5 team. They just got hot at the right time. There wasn't a star player on that team. Just several solid/good role players who knew & played their role well. Pitino didn't even think to leave or recruit a backup PG, forcing Tubby to bring in some mid-major recruit named Saul (which then hurt our recruiting a PG the next 3 years).

Pope didn't inherit crap, that would imply he interited bad players. His inheritance was nothing, so certainly less than Tubby. But it also afforded him, in the transfer portal era, plenty of room/positions/minutes to offer players to transfer in.

Not comparable at all to RP's 1st team, who simply were NOT talented. I remember that team well.

You're letting your hatred of Pitino cloud your judgement of Pope. Pope is the real deal, he inherited nothing at UK, meaning he had to cobble together an entire roster while also trying to alleviate fears from players who likely thought he couldn't win here.

 

[blue cincy]

This is a good debate but we will not be able to finish it till post season.

NIL, Transfer Portal, All changed basketball. Pitino would have had a much different team year 1 that he had with both of those things.

To think this team is more like Pitino first team is not fair if you ask me.

Carr played in ACC last year, Had 15 plus ppg and something like 7 rebounds against ACC teams, not bad, not a scrub. Butler playing at SDSU is not like playing at like playing at Missouri State. SDSU is a very good team. Played in Final four and such. Oweh was a good player last year. Only time will tell what his jump this year will be. Same for all the other players.

Did 98 team preseason have 2 defensive player of the year guys on the roster? Did it have 6th man of the year from a power 5 conference.

I will not think less of this team till they make me think less of them. We will find out before mid December what we have and what our ceiling will look like. Can we get better after mid December, sure, we can also get worse. Barring injuries we would be a top 15 team most of the year. Ceiling is in the top 5 or so (if all comes together).

 

[cathouse]

False. You are excluding the modernness of immediate transfer and NIL pay for play.
Ill leave it at that and show some class.
Take notes.

The only note I am going to take is placing you on ignore.

Not sure why I have waited this long.

Carry on with your nonsense. I will no longer participate. You obviously have issues.

Sorry my post triggered you. I wish you well.

 

[cathouse]

No. Tubby didn't. That team was a top 15 team, not a top 5 team. They just got hot at the right time. There wasn't a star player on that team. Just several solid/good role players who knew & played their role well. Pitino didn't even think to leave or recruit a backup PG, forcing Tubby to bring in some mid-major recruit named Saul (which then hurt our recruiting a PG the next 3 years).

Pope didn't inherit crap, that would imply he interited bad players. His inheritance was nothing, so certainly less than Tubby. But it also afforded him, in the transfer portal era, plenty of room/positions/minutes to offer players to transfer in.

Not comparable at all to RP's 1st team, who simply were NOT talented. I remember that team well.

Lol. Not talented?? You mean the team that would later take Duke to OT in the regional finals. A Duke team that went on to win the NC???
And, I'm pretty sure Tubby's first team actually WON THE NC. Wouldn't that make them a national championship caliber roster???

Stop hating on Pitino. The man worked miracles at UK to have started out with about 4 local players on the roster when he got here. Pitino built those championship rosters at UK. At least give him credit for what he accomplished while he was coach at UK.

One man re-built a championship program and one man destroyed a championship program.

 

[BlueSince92]

What 1998 inherited from 1996 and 1997 was a little more than what 2013 inherited from 2012.

Kyle Wiltjer had been a highly contributing member of a very powerful championship team.

Ryan Harrow had been a member of that powerful championship team and practiced with them all year. Lauded by teammates, just not allowed to play games due to prop 48.

In ‘13 Twany Beckham was in his third year as a Cat.

Ditto Jarrod Polson.

Jon Hood was in his fourth year as a Cat.

And the difference in rankings and power of the respective incoming classes, Saul Smith, Michael Bradley, Myron Anthony, and Ryan Hogan versus Archie Goodwin, Alex Poythress, Nerlens Noel, and Willie Caulie Stein certainly speaks for itself.


The ‘98 roster sure wasn’t dogmeat. But it was hardly considered pre- or mid-season to be a “championship roster.” That gets underscored when we look back on the results of 2013 who inherited similar leavings and paired that with a much, much stronger haul of additions.

To describe the 98 squad as a “championship roster” and claim what they inherited made their eventual results expected somehow, that undervalues the remarkable heart and accomplishments of that amazing overachieving underdog team, in my opinion.

 

[L.O.D.]

98 has 25 by a sizeable margin with the bigs as both Nazr and Magloire were a level better than either of this teams bigs. Shepard an Jax. Is a wash . Butler n Turner is a wash, Carr n Padgett .maybe slight edge to Pagett. 25 has the better bench pretty solidly.


Both teams are fairly even