4 Main reasons our recruiting was "down" this year

[BigBlu_2002]

First off, we are the 2nd rated recruiting class so by "down" I mean by UK standards.

1) Negative recruiting - It has been stated recently that other coaches negatively recruit and Cal says he doesn't. Other coaches are asking recruits, "do you really want to play 20 min and get 8 shots when you could be playing 30 and 15?"

2) Platoon system - This plays into the negative recruiting and Cal has even admitted it killed us. Cal doesn't admit he's wrong often so by him publically saying it hurt his team and he will never platoon again, you know it had to kill us.

3) A lot of players don't want to follow a super successful team. Same thing happened in 2012. After we won title in 2012, we signed Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin but in the spring signing period we lost Bennett to UNLV, Mohmammed to UCLA just to name a few. We lost out on a few transfers who were immediately eligible as well (Wells and the kid who ended up at Ariz St) We had to settle on Juluis Mays. Same thing happened this year. We didn't win title but no one wanted to follow a team that went 38-1. We got all our players early and when spring (late) signing period came we were rolling and it looked like we were going to win it all. One by one HS recruits were spurning UK so Cal was forced to go after grad transfers (ie the C from UNCC - a major reach for our standards) and we even went the juco route which Cal never does....SO MANY SIMILARITIES to 2012!!

4) Losing our best recruiter (Orlando Antigua). Recruiting is about relationships and those relationships have to start early. First we lose OA then we lose Slice. This had to hurt.

It all started with Kennard annoucing super early. That was just flat out WEIRD. Then, late in the year, we lose out on players who we lead with almost since their JR year (Newman, Brown and Braggs to name a few). This has been just an odd year and I hope it was just a blip on the radar. Barbee has his work cut out for him because even though he has been here for a year, as we have seen in the Murray race, relationships are key. Oregon has been recruiting Murray the longest. Lately we have been seeing UK offer kids super, super early. I DON'T THINK THIS A COINCIDENCE but rather a glimpse into a change in Cal's recruiting philosophy. He used to wait to very late in the process to extend offer (dangling a carrot so to speak) so the recruit would feel almost a sense of relief when he got it and it made him want to go to UK even more. That hasn't been working lately so I think UK is trying to get in on these players earlier and offering as early as Cal has ever offered before.

 

[ukmelanie]

All good points.I do feel that maybe Cal was so focused on getting certain players that it cost us others who might not have been as great but were good and really could have helped us.All the focus on Newman,Brown and Zimmerman might have ended up hurting us.

 

[TBCat]

We are #2. Recruiting isn't down. The issue is that we just lost 7 players in one draft. It's not a problem of recruiting it's just that we aren't accustomed to the need to replace 7 all americans in one class. If we had lost 3 or 4 then the class would be perfect and we wouldn't even be recruiting Murray.

 

[thebluestripes]

Well if nothing else, the cal cheats rumors oughta die down a little

 

[rick64]

I'm sure there are a lot of college coaches that would absolutely LOVE to have Coach Cal's recruiting problems.

 

[Calsarmy]

I'm sure there are a lot of college coaches that would absolutely LOVE to have Coach Cal's recruiting problems.

They might LOVE to have Coach Cal's recruiting problems, but then again none of them are Kentucky either.
I would only observe that when your in business and lose 7 deals in a row you have to step back and look at either what your doing, what the competition is doing, and what has changed.
I honestly am scratching my head as to how do you lose a player to MSU or a Cal or an OR.
Lets see how fall goes, Im very over this class.

 

[BBUK]

Cal may need to "tweak" but he DOESN'T need to change....

 

[KMKAT]

The one thing that Cal did promise after that 2012-13 season was that we would never be shorthanded again.

I think he's meeting that mark, even with the rejections this spring. Its simple; time for Willis and Hawkins to step up and make us deep.

 

[kats23]

I think it comes down to a few things.

1. The NBA rumors. He got so close taking the Cleveland job I think people thought he was going to bolt including recruits and rival coaches. I think coaches used that to their advantage.

2. Even if the platoon thing was never to be used again, I think it scared a couple guys who were afraid of logjams at their position. Not the #3 spot but the 1, 2, 4, and 5 spot could of been if we brought on some guys. I think coaches used that as well to their advantage. The platoon became Pandora's box. Once it's opened, it's hard to close.

3. As great as it is to have these guys come back the past couple of years, Cal's rep is a one and done guy. I think the Harrison's coming back hurt Cal on the recruiting trail a bit. Fair or not, they were highly rated coming out of HS as well as Dakari, & Lee. These guys not going one and done I think has hurt Cal as a developer in some people's minds including recruits. Once the Harrison's get out of people's minds I think it's back to business as usual. I think it really helps Booker is going to get drafted high and KAT going likely #1 will help too. end of the day, it's just a blip on the radar.

 

[JPScott]

2) Platoon system - This plays into the negative recruiting and Cal has even admitted it killed us. Cal doesn't admit he's wrong often so by him publically saying it hurt his team and he will never platoon again, you know it had to kill us.

While I understand that the platoons were certainly used by rival recruiters to negatively recruit against UK, and it may have swayed some recruits, I certainly hope no one actually thinks platoons was a bad thing for last year's team.

As far as I'm concerned, the only bad thing about platooning was that Calipari didn't use it enough down the stretch. If he had UK was nearly invincible IMO. The more he went away from it, the more vulnerable UK became.

If Calipari is lucky enough to ever be in a position again where he has such a wealth of talent, that is also emotionally mature enough to sacrifice for the good of the team (and of course versatile enough to pull it off), I hope he's willing to consider the platoons as an option. To not do so simply because of some negative recruiting I think is incredibly short sighted.

For anyone who thinks otherwise, I hope you understand that if Calipari had played only 7 guys this past season and ended up leaving 3 McDonalds All-Americans on the bench, that UK would be negatively recruited as well, and probably with more reason since I doubt UK's record would have been anywhere near 38-1. (more like 34-5)

 

[Big_C_KU]

Down year by UK standards. Up year by everyone elses standards. You'll still be a title contender again. Not every team is going to be 2015 good. Think this UK team will be very similar to your 2011 team. Some ups and downs but just as big of a title Final Four contender as usual.

 

[Katwatcher]

The one thing that Cal did promise after that 2012-13 season was that we would never be shorthanded again.

I think he's meeting that mark, even with the rejections this spring. Its simple; time for Willis and Hawkins to step up and make us deep.

Willis and Hawkins can't step up if they are on the bench.

I'm thinking maybe too much time spent making sure the other 8 players got their minutes., to insure making the NBA. I don't see where we have been shorthanded. 7-8 player rotations is plenty good. Players will get better with playing time increase.

 

[lacocat]

Natural cycle, success breeds backlash, teen kids want to blaze new paths.

 

[kybassfan]

There is no reason to think recruiting is anything other than normal. Why would anyone think "normal" for us is the top class each and every year, year after year forever? Normal has a range and normal for us is likely 1 - 5 ranking, year in, year out while under Cal. All these rationalizations are nothing more than that. They are simply conjecture as to why one high schooler or another may have decided to play for the cats. When we have 2, 3 or 4 years to establish a trend, then perhaps this becomes a meaningful discussion. For now, it's just hand wringing, fodder for reporters and easy bait for those wanting to get a rise from that most predictable fan base: us.

The question on the table is this: Why are we 'normal' again this year?

Boring question, isn't it?

 

[Jkwo]

There is no reason to think recruiting is anything other than normal. Why would anyone think "normal" for us is the top class each and every year, year after year forever? Normal has a range and normal for us is likely 1 - 5 ranking, year in, year out while under Cal. All these rationalizations are nothing more than that. They are simply conjecture as to why one high schooler or another may have decided to play for the cats. When we have 2, 3 or 4 years to establish a trend, then perhaps this becomes a meaningful discussion. For now, it's just hand wringing, fodder for reporters and easy bait for those wanting to get a rise from that most predictable fan base: us.

The question on the table is this: Why are we 'normal' again this year?

Boring question, isn't it?

Exactly. Depending on context, we could theoretically get the 4th ranked class one year and still be filling all our needs and recruiting far, far, far better than what's historically typical for the program.

We could do all that landing 3 5 stars and a high 4 - just that Zona, Duke and Kansas all happen to get just as much or more, and we happen to go behind them.

The absolute number - that #4 - wouldn't tell us nearly as much as what we bring in.

The main thing this class really lacks right now is a great wing. Still, tons of talent to work with.

 

[UKCATSFREAK]

First off, we are the 2nd rated recruiting class so by "down" I mean by UK standards.

1) Negative recruiting - It has been stated recently that other coaches negatively recruit and Cal says he doesn't. Other coaches are asking recruits, "do you really want to play 20 min and get 8 shots when you could be playing 30 and 15?"

2) Platoon system - This plays into the negative recruiting and Cal has even admitted it killed us. Cal doesn't admit he's wrong often so by him publically saying it hurt his team and he will never platoon again, you know it had to kill us.

3) A lot of players don't want to follow a super successful team. Same thing happened in 2012. After we won title in 2012, we signed Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin but in the spring signing period we lost Bennett to UNLV, Mohmammed to UCLA just to name a few. We lost out on a few transfers who were immediately eligible as well (Wells and the kid who ended up at Ariz St) We had to settle on Juluis Mays. Same thing happened this year. We didn't win title but no one wanted to follow a team that went 38-1. We got all our players early and when spring (late) signing period came we were rolling and it looked like we were going to win it all. One by one HS recruits were spurning UK so Cal was forced to go after grad transfers (ie the C from UNCC - a major reach for our standards) and we even went the juco route which Cal never does....SO MANY SIMILARITIES to 2012!!

4) Losing our best recruiter (Orlando Antigua). Recruiting is about relationships and those relationships have to start early. First we lose OA then we lose Slice. This had to hurt.

It all started with Kennard annoucing super early. That was just flat out WEIRD. Then, late in the year, we lose out on players who we lead with almost since their JR year (Newman, Brown and Braggs to name a few). This has been just an odd year and I hope it was just a blip on the radar. Barbee has his work cut out for him because even though he has been here for a year, as we have seen in the Murray race, relationships are key. Oregon has been recruiting Murray the longest. Lately we have been seeing UK offer kids super, super early. I DON'T THINK THIS A COINCIDENCE but rather a glimpse into a change in Cal's recruiting philosophy. He used to wait to very late in the process to extend offer (dangling a carrot so to speak) so the recruit would feel almost a sense of relief when he got it and it made him want to go to UK even more. That hasn't been working lately so I think UK is trying to get in on these players earlier and offering as early as Cal has ever offered before.

Reason #5- And the biggest reason......its just a odd class with the star players all over the place. Looks at almost all the recruits that we were highly involved with and almost every single one has a legit excuse to choose the school that they did. Whether it be a hometown school, another blue blood program, close family friend on staff, or simply not liking the spotlight, most everyone of them had a legit reason for choosing the other school. It is what it is and that's just an odd class with different priorities. Now, I think all your reasons contributed also but I just don't think there is a major conspiracy here like alot on the board. All your reasons are legit but I think Reason #5 is the biggest of those listed. Jmo!

 

[ia.ukfan]

The one thing that Cal did promise after that 2012-13 season was that we would never be shorthanded again.

I think he's meeting that mark, even with the rejections this spring. Its simple; time for Willis and Hawkins to step up and make us deep.

Very true. And so many on this board act like Hawkins and Willis are absolute chopped liver who, if relied upon for meaningful minutes this year, will signify doom for the squad. Reality is many players need a few years to get their chance, and this absolutely could ring true for dom and willis. Personally I think the opportunity is there more for Willis and I hope he can pull through. If either can hit outside shots with regularity they will get minutes IMO.

 

[BigBlueFanGA]

First off, we are the 2nd rated recruiting class so by "down" I mean by UK standards.

1) Negative recruiting - It has been stated recently that other coaches negatively recruit and Cal says he doesn't. Other coaches are asking recruits, "do you really want to play 20 min and get 8 shots when you could be playing 30 and 15?"

2) Platoon system - This plays into the negative recruiting and Cal has even admitted it killed us. Cal doesn't admit he's wrong often so by him publically saying it hurt his team and he will never platoon again, you know it had to kill us.

3) A lot of players don't want to follow a super successful team. Same thing happened in 2012. After we won title in 2012, we signed Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin but in the spring signing period we lost Bennett to UNLV, Mohmammed to UCLA just to name a few. We lost out on a few transfers who were immediately eligible as well (Wells and the kid who ended up at Ariz St) We had to settle on Juluis Mays. Same thing happened this year. We didn't win title but no one wanted to follow a team that went 38-1. We got all our players early and when spring (late) signing period came we were rolling and it looked like we were going to win it all. One by one HS recruits were spurning UK so Cal was forced to go after grad transfers (ie the C from UNCC - a major reach for our standards) and we even went the juco route which Cal never does....SO MANY SIMILARITIES to 2012!!

4) Losing our best recruiter (Orlando Antigua). Recruiting is about relationships and those relationships have to start early. First we lose OA then we lose Slice. This had to hurt.

It all started with Kennard annoucing super early. That was just flat out WEIRD. Then, late in the year, we lose out on players who we lead with almost since their JR year (Newman, Brown and Braggs to name a few). This has been just an odd year and I hope it was just a blip on the radar. Barbee has his work cut out for him because even though he has been here for a year, as we have seen in the Murray race, relationships are key. Oregon has been recruiting Murray the longest. Lately we have been seeing UK offer kids super, super early. I DON'T THINK THIS A COINCIDENCE but rather a glimpse into a change in Cal's recruiting philosophy. He used to wait to very late in the process to extend offer (dangling a carrot so to speak) so the recruit would feel almost a sense of relief when he got it and it made him want to go to UK even more. That hasn't been working lately so I think UK is trying to get in on these players earlier and offering as early as Cal has ever offered before.

I think the main reason our recruiting was "down" this year is because many of our top targets decided to play elsewhere, for their own reasons.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

IMO the only huge/crucial miss was Newman...we needed an elite scoring guard/wing in this class.

Other than that, we signed the #1 center, one of the best PG's to go alongside Ullis, and return our starting 3 and 4 spot.

Would have been nice to add Zimmerman and Diallo (our 2 other primary targets), but I can see why they decided to go elsewhere.

 

[EvilMD]

I'll add a fifth...overexposure. Recruits want to go where they are noticed, but there is such a thing as overkill.

 

[wcc31]

#1 Reason:

This class was a bunch of bitches. TS.

Enjoy the NIT and playing in front of small crowds.

 

[Cornered Weasel]

First off, we are the 2nd rated recruiting class so by "down" I mean by UK standards.

1) Negative recruiting - It has been stated recently that other coaches negatively recruit and Cal says he doesn't. Other coaches are asking recruits, "do you really want to play 20 min and get 8 shots when you could be playing 30 and 15?"

2) Platoon system - This plays into the negative recruiting and Cal has even admitted it killed us. Cal doesn't admit he's wrong often so by him publically saying it hurt his team and he will never platoon again, you know it had to kill us.

3) A lot of players don't want to follow a super successful team. Same thing happened in 2012. After we won title in 2012, we signed Noel, Poythress, and Goodwin but in the spring signing period we lost Bennett to UNLV, Mohmammed to UCLA just to name a few. We lost out on a few transfers who were immediately eligible as well (Wells and the kid who ended up at Ariz St) We had to settle on Juluis Mays. Same thing happened this year. We didn't win title but no one wanted to follow a team that went 38-1. We got all our players early and when spring (late) signing period came we were rolling and it looked like we were going to win it all. One by one HS recruits were spurning UK so Cal was forced to go after grad transfers (ie the C from UNCC - a major reach for our standards) and we even went the juco route which Cal never does....SO MANY SIMILARITIES to 2012!!

4) Losing our best recruiter (Orlando Antigua). Recruiting is about relationships and those relationships have to start early. First we lose OA then we lose Slice. This had to hurt.

It all started with Kennard annoucing super early. That was just flat out WEIRD. Then, late in the year, we lose out on players who we lead with almost since their JR year (Newman, Brown and Braggs to name a few). This has been just an odd year and I hope it was just a blip on the radar. Barbee has his work cut out for him because even though he has been here for a year, as we have seen in the Murray race, relationships are key. Oregon has been recruiting Murray the longest. Lately we have been seeing UK offer kids super, super early. I DON'T THINK THIS A COINCIDENCE but rather a glimpse into a change in Cal's recruiting philosophy. He used to wait to very late in the process to extend offer (dangling a carrot so to speak) so the recruit would feel almost a sense of relief when he got it and it made him want to go to UK even more. That hasn't been working lately so I think UK is trying to get in on these players earlier and offering as early as Cal has ever offered before.

 

[Cornered Weasel]

Duke's class doesn't seem to mind following a super successful class.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Interesting to see how/if the tide turns once we see 6 or 7 UK players drafted, including #1 overall; and potentially 2 other top 10 picks. Results speak for themselves.

I also expect UK to start looking international a bit more. K will have most of the under 17 USA team on lockdown. So this would make a lot of sense.

 

[Poetax]

Very true. And so many on this board act like Hawkins and Willis are absolute chopped liver who, if relied upon for meaningful minutes this year, will signify doom for the squad. Reality is many players need a few years to get their chance, and this absolutely could ring true for dom and willis. Personally I think the opportunity is there more for Willis and I hope he can pull through. If either can hit outside shots with regularity they will get minutes IMO.

The bench mindset for Willis and Hawkins will have to change in this coming year. They won't be able to be passive and just be a guy that just passes the ball around the perimeter. They will both need to be more assertive on both sides of the ball because the need to get scoring and defense out of every position on the floor will be essential.