3-3-5 Stack Defense

[C1180]

I saw a article where one of the UK defensive coaches said that UK would run some 3-3-5 stack this year. This was a defense of which I have little knowledge.

My first thoughts was that this is just a nickel version of the 3-4-4 and that this would be even weaker against the run than the 3-4 which IMO is a somewhat weak formation against the run.

I then googled 3-3-5 Stack defense and it seems that it is a lot more complicated than just pulling a LB and inserting a safety or CB for a nickel defense. The 3 LBs and safeties stack behind the 3 defensive linemen and the CBs are up tight in coverage. The DL slants and there is a lot of Blitzing coming from a lot of different directions. It is a defense where you can use a few football players that are fast and athletic but might be a little small for their position I particularly liked the coaches numbering system for calling his blitzes. He numbered his LBs and two SS types 1-5 and call the gap they were going through by how the DL was slanted. The blitzers went through the gap opposite direction of the slant.

Over all I was fairly impressed with the defense. It is designed to defend spread offenses. It is used quite a bit in high school but not much in the pros. There was a list of college teams that are or have used this defense among them was TCU, Boise St, Brigham Young, Arizona, West Virginia, and Michigan.

I believe UKANI has said that he played this defense at Tulsa. It would be great if he would give us the benefit of his experience and knowledge of this defense.

There was also another version of the 3-3-5 shown where there was 3 CBs tight on the LOS for tight coverage and there was a bit less stacking of the LBs and safeties and of course only 2 safeties on the third level

 

[ajgcardman]

Louisville ran out of what was called a 33 Stack base in Strong's last couple years. It was a multiple-look defense that was a little different than the traditional 3-3-5 Stack, but employed many of the same principles. Most teams nowadays run something very similar to this in college for the reason of defending Spread Offenses. Tulane (Rich Rod) was one of the first to exclusively run this that I recall. Rich Rod would take this to WVU, Michigan & Arizona.

 

[UK Cats Rock]

As soon as I read the title, my first thought was, "TCU." Pretty nasty defense a couple of years ago. Haven't kept up with them so not sure how it's doing now, but they ran this and was very successful with it.

 

[C1180]

I could see some possibilities using one of the SS types out of the back stack and either walking him up to a MLB spot if you smell run or leaving him back in coverage if you anticipate pass. I would want a mean SOB athletic SS type playing that position or a LB that was great in coverage. Sort of a hybrid position. A player good at smelling run or pass.

 

[ctroberts1024]

TCU runs more of a 4-2-5. Arizona and WVU are two teams off the top of my head that run the 3-3-5 and they do it extremely well. But, that is the plan when we put in Walker at OLB. He's more of a walked up safety than a true OLB which makes it a 3-3-5. That's why I think it is vital he stays healthy this year. We can do so much more when he's healthy.

 

[UKCatnNC]

I am looking forward to a much improved defense. Go Cats!!

 

[Rhavicc]

TCU runs more of a 4-2-5. Arizona and WVU are two teams off the top of my head that run the 3-3-5 and they do it extremely well. But, that is the plan when we put in Walker at OLB. He's more of a walked up safety than a true OLB which makes it a 3-3-5. That's why I think it is vital he stays healthy this year. We can do so much more when he's healthy.

It looked as if they ran a 3-3-5 against Ole Miss, and they destroyed Ole Miss' offense. It seems like they use their DE/OLB in the same way that we used Dupree.

 

[C1180]

It is difficult to really class what defense a lot of teams are running because a lot of them are multi formation types and that give you multiple looks to keep you guessing.

The 3-3-5 stack seems a good start formation to give multi looks by walking up and or shifting defenders after the offense has committed itself.

 

[C1180]

Walker does seem the type that would be a fit at one of the SS spots in the 3-3-5 stack alignment. UK actually has several players that I see being a fit at those SS positions in the 3-3-5 Stack.

 

[C1180]

How about a little tutorial here UKANI

 

[WildCard]

It is difficult to really class what defense a lot of teams are running because a lot of them are multi formation types and that give you multiple looks to keep you guessing.
.

This.
But there are differences in the play and responsibilities between a "base" 4 man secondary (e.g., 4-3-4 or 3-4-4) and a "true" 5 man secondary (e.g., 4-2-5 or 33 Stack). Simply adding a nickel back to 4 man secondary does not make it a "true" 5 man secondary scheme.

Peace

 

[C1180]

This.
But there are differences in the play and responsibilities between a "base" 4 man secondary (e.g., 4-3-4 or 3-4-4) and a "true" 5 man secondary (e.g., 4-2-5 or 33 Stack). Simply adding a nickel back to 4 man secondary does not make it a "true" 5 man secondary scheme.

Peace

Wildcard did you even read my original post? I ask this question because in that post I stated that there was differences besides just lining up with a nickel back in a 3-3 front. I think all of us that know just a little bit about football know there is much more to a defense than just the alignment. I doubt that Elliot would have stated that he might run some 3-3-5 stack if all he was going to do was take out a backer and bring in a Safety or CB and run a 3-4 nickel. If he does run some of the defense I am sure he will run it properly and adhere to the principals of the defense.

I also stated in that post that I was not familiar with the 3-3-5 Stack defense and that I had Googled to get some information. I was able to obtain quite a bit of information and now feel that I have a fair understanding of that defense.

 

[Blue Decade]

I saw a article where one of the UK defensive coaches said that UK would run some 3-3-5 stack this year. This was a defense of which I have little knowledge.

My first thoughts was that this is just a nickel version of the 3-4-4 and that this would be even weaker against the run than the 3-4 which IMO is a somewhat weak formation against the run.

I then googled 3-3-5 Stack defense and it seems that it is a lot more complicated than just pulling a LB and inserting a safety or CB for a nickel defense. The 3 LBs and safeties stack behind the 3 defensive linemen and the CBs are up tight in coverage. The DL slants and there is a lot of Blitzing coming from a lot of different directions. It is a defense where you can use a few football players that are fast and athletic but might be a little small for their position I particularly liked the coaches numbering system for calling his blitzes. He numbered his LBs and two SS types 1-5 and call the gap they were going through by how the DL was slanted. The blitzers went through the gap opposite direction of the slant.

Over all I was fairly impressed with the defense. It is designed to defend spread offenses. It is used quite a bit in high school but not much in the pros. There was a list of college teams that are or have used this defense among them was TCU, Boise St, Brigham Young, Arizona, West Virginia, and Michigan.

I believe UKANI has said that he played this defense at Tulsa. It would be great if he would give us the benefit of his experience and knowledge of this defense.

There was also another version of the 3-3-5 shown where there was 3 CBs tight on the LOS for tight coverage and there was a bit less stacking of the LBs and safeties and of course only 2 safeties on the third level

It's easy to find 3-4 defenses that are weak against the run, but you can also find 3-4 defenses that defend well against the run. It depends on personnel and preparation. If Stoops really intends to use Ware and Hatcher as outside linebackers, as the spring depth chart suggested, then we will have a big, physical defense despite the transition to 3-4. We are huge in the middle of the field with either Lewis or Elam. And if Courtney Love is eligible, that would help our run defense. As for the 3-3-5 stack, I would guess that you need 3 great safeties and a couple of big corners, which seems to be the direction Stoops has been moving in recruiting his secondary.

 

[hmt5000]

also, just showing a certain front and alignment doesn't necessarily tie you to said responsibilities. we were arguing about it last year and maybe the book says this cb has man and this cb plays shallow with safety over but you can just play zone out of a set or play all man with the same look and stay the same up front with some of the athletes playing lb'er and safety.

 

[C1180]

Personnel aside I just think that the 3-4 is a bit weaker against the run than a 4-3. IMO with both defenses having the proper personnel I think the 4-3 is stronger against the run. The exception being maybe you having a 5 or 6 foot wide all world nose tackle for the 3-4. Those are however a very scarce item.

 

[Blue Decade]

Personnel aside I just think that the 3-4 is a bit weaker against the run than a 4-3. IMO with both defenses having the proper personnel I think the 4-3 is stronger against the run. The exception being maybe you having a 5 or 6 foot wide all world nose tackle for the 3-4. Those are however a very scarce item.

Look at how Alabama uses its 3-4. Saban has 260 pound linebackers with good quickness, and they are really tough to run against. Where 3-4 schemes have trouble against the run, they tend to be defenses designed to stop spread offenses using smaller, quicker linebackers.

 

[C1180]

Look at how Alabama uses its 3-4. Saban has 260 pound linebackers with good quickness, and they are really tough to run against. Where 3-4 schemes have trouble against the run, they tend to be defenses designed to stop spread offenses using smaller, quicker linebackers.

You somewhat defeat the reason for the 3-4-4 when you have those monster MLBs and SS to help stop the power running game.

Alabama seems to struggle against good spread attacks especially the HUNH which should be the strength of the 3-4-4.

This is why Saban is so opposed to the HUNH offenses and wants to legislate them out of existence.