2 topics: SG and SF

[JustthefaxMa'am]

1. Cal won it all in 2012 with two great SF but hasn't had it again. I'd like to see him get that position shored up again to see how it would be.

2. Has anyone noticed Cal hasn't really sent a dominant SG into the NBA yet? He also hasn't really had a dominant SG at UK. I think Lamb was a perfect college 2 for Cal as he was such a great shooter. He really opened up the interior.

What say ye?

 

[gossie21]

Bledsoe has played shooting guard most of his career.

 

[coolcat9lives]

I'd like to see UK add Bridges he's perfect for the wing position. As far as Cal sending a dominant SG to the league there really haven't been many options to recruit since he's been at UK. The best SG's in the league kind of came out of nowhere and were a little bit ahead of Cal's tenure at UK. Jimmy Butler (JUCO to Marquette), James Harden (Arizona State), and Klay Thompson (Washington State) all developed in relative obscurity. There are a few young guns like Beal, Oladipo, and Derozan that played for more high profile programs but there aren't really many dominant SG's in the league right now.

 

[gossie21]

The 2G position is probably the weakest its ever been in the NBA, there aren't very many elite 2Gs. With Kobe fading into old age/injury it's really just Harden, Thompson, and Butler right now. There's a crop of young 2Gs that may develop into great players, but they aren't there yet.

 

[StubbornPenny]

Yeah, it hasn't been a marquee position lately. All guards wanna handle the ball, the taller guys are taught wing skills. Shooting is less valuable to stats guys than ability to prevent the other team from scoring. Though booker was a pretty good SG for us!

 

[KA4Prez]

I'd say Doron Lamb and Devin Booker were both pretty great college SG's. You can't discount it just because they don't translate to the NBA (in Lamb's case, at least).

In the NBA, there's a real gray area between the SG and the SF anyway. It college, it makes a much bigger difference. A guy with the size and skill set of MKG is a dominating presence on the college level. In the NBA, if he's got all the same measurables but shoots like J.R. Smith, he's a SG.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I went through a literal, 5 minute pensive state of "what if" while watching Jonathan Isaac highlights at the peach jam.

That kid is going to be special. Would have loved him in UK blue. Hamilton's got a great player coming in.

That said, if Cal somehow pulled off the borderline miracle that would be getting Bridges away from Izzo, I'd be a happy man.

 

[KyFord]

Murray is basically a SG with PG skills, then you have Booker and Lamb. Dodson was decent for us as well although he wasn't an elite player.

 

[bucsrule8872]

We are so obsessed with position as fans.

What is the difference between a SG and an SF in the game today?

Traditionalists will say, "well, a SG tends to shoot and handle better while a SF tends to rebound better. The SF is usually between 6'6 and 6'8 while the SG should be between 6'4 and 6'6. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."

There really isn't any difference. They both play on the wing.

This is why Cal is talking about "positionless" basketball.

This is why so many teams are playing their best players regardless of position.

Look at the Final Four. There were no starters at the 3 spot that were "traditional" SFs. UK and UW had traditional college PFs at the 3 (Lyles, Dekker). Duke and MSU started traditional college SGs at the 3 (Jones, Valentine).

I disagree with the idea that Cal has to have a traditional SF to win a title.

We won the title in 2012 because we had MKG, not because he was a traditional SF. He was a shutdown defender on the perimeter and an athletic finisher on offense. He was mature beyond his years with an extremely high motor. Didn't matter that he was a SF or not.

That is why I have hope for this year's team. We have a guy in Ulis that reminds me of MKG when it comes to his heart. You need players like that regardless of "position."

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

2. Has anyone noticed Cal hasn't really sent a dominant SG into the NBA yet? He also hasn't really had a dominant SG at UK. I think Lamb was a perfect college 2 for Cal as he was such a great shooter. He really opened up the interior.

What say ye?

How many dominant shooting guards are there in each class? We just landed a 6'5" combo guard who projects as a future lottery pick. In fact, Murray is every bit as good as Newman with the ability to do more as a passer and perimeter scorer (although I'd give Newman the nod on penetration).

2015 shooting guards and their ESPN ranking - Newman was the only shooting guard inside the top 10. Of course, Murray hasn't been factored into the ESPN or rivals rankings yet.

In 2014, there weren't any shooting guards ranked until #13, DeAngelo Russell. Cal landed Booker that year, and returned Aaron Harrison. I think we can forgive him for not procuring Russell.

In 2013, four players in the top 10 were wing players. Cal landed two of them, including the #1 shooting guard. Hard to fault him with that.

In 2012, Calipari landed two of the top six wing players in the country. He was also right at the door step of Gary Harris, but according to Izzo, "came too late" to get him, otherwise Harris would have given Cal half the elite wing players in one class.


I mean, elite wing players are rare, especially elite shooting guards. Landing Murray (top 10), Booker (top 25), Lamb (top 25), Goodwin (top 10), Matthews (top 40), and Aaron Harrison (top 10) isn't really anything to frown about, especially considering most of those guys acted as supplemental players to elite big men or point guards. I think Murray surprises the nation this year, and ends up being Cal's best two-guard yet (I think he plays the shooting guard on the next level).

 

[Hoskins91]

We haven't had many elite wings come here, that's for sure. MKG and Booker would be the closest we've had, and neither of them will likely be big name NBA players.

 

[KA4Prez]

See, that's the thing.

Overall, college basketball doesn't really have "wings." At the elite, elite schools, yes. Not overall. A player like Michael Gilchrist, Andrew Wiggins, Justise Winslow...these guys could've easily played PF in college and been beasts. They "could" have played SG in college, albeit you probably wouldn't do that considering you would rather play them at the 3 or 4 and find a pure shooter or extra ball-handler to play the 2. Point is, you're typical 6'6 or 6'8 "wing" plays any of the 3 spots in college, depending who else is around him, because they are good enough to defend and contribute at all 3 spots.

In the NBA, the size becomes a much, much bigger factor. Nobody 6'6 could play PF. Nobody 6'6, unless they have the athleticism or strength is guarding the top SF's in the league. Skill set becomes the biggest factor in the NBA.

 

[bucsrule8872]

See, that's the thing.

Overall, college basketball doesn't really have "wings." At the elite, elite schools, yes. Not overall. A player like Michael Gilchrist, Andrew Wiggins, Justise Winslow...these guys could've easily played PF in college and been beasts. They "could" have played SG in college, albeit you probably wouldn't do that considering you would rather play them at the 3 or 4 and find a pure shooter or extra ball-handler to play the 2. Point is, you're typical 6'6 or 6'8 "wing" plays any of the 3 spots in college, depending who else is around him, because they are good enough to defend and contribute at all 3 spots.

In the NBA, the size becomes a much, much bigger factor. Nobody 6'6 could play PF. Nobody 6'6, unless they have the athleticism or strength is guarding the top SF's in the league. Skill set becomes the biggest factor in the NBA.

Charles Barkley disagrees.

Sorry, I couldn't resist pointing that out.

 

[KA4Prez]

There are exceptions. I didn't forget about Chuck Hayes. Or Paul Milsap. Generally speaking though.

 

[westerncat]

A lot of you guys are overlooking Matthews for this year. He is a better player than some think.

 

[bucsrule8872]

There are exceptions. I didn't forget about Chuck Hayes. Or Paul Milsap. Generally speaking though.

Yeah, I know, but I had to bust your chops about it. No offense.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I have said this before, there are three types of positions now, IMHO.

1. Point- ballhandlers/passers. Very good at running teams.

2. Wings- shooters/scorers. Play on the perimeter.

3. Bigs- post players. Like to play inside.

Some players can play more than one. Guys like James and Durant can play all three because of their size. Very few can play all three spots.

Some teams play a traditional Point, 2 Wings, and 2 Bigs lineup.

Duke played 2 Points, 2 Wings, and a Big.

ND played 1 Point, 3 Wings, and a Big.

UK played 1 Point, 1 Wing, and 3 Bigs.

As the game continues to evolve, I think we will see the positions disappear all together and we will have five guys on the floor that can do it all.

The concept of "positions" is becoming a thing of the past, IMHO.

 

[UK_Johnny24]

I swear I think Booker's going to be a big time player in the NBA. I think here in a couple years he'll be considered one of the best SG's in the league.