OT: Why Iowa fans were upset last year

[Tskware]

Since we played them last two bowl games, I started paying more attention to Iowa. They had two players off their defense picked in the first 20 picks (Van Ness and Campbell), and a third player in the 3rd round or so (Moss). This AM, I saw a mock draft that had Cooper DeJean (he had the 2nd pick six against us) projected as a 1st round pick, and can't remember his name, but the safety that had the first pick six in Nashville was one of the highest rated recruits ever to sign with Iowa, IIRC. When I saw them at the Citrus Bowl, thought they were the best defense we played all year, except for Georgia.

So . . . given that they had at least two, and maybe three or even four potential first round picks on defense, and an AA punter, but still barely finished 7-5, I can see where the Hawkeye faithful might have been a bit cheesed off at Ferentz's son and the "offense" that he put on the field each game.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

From where I sat in both games, they had one of the best tes in college football. OL play was really good too.

 

[Tskware]

From where I sat in both games, they had one of the best tes in college football. OL play was really good too.

Agree, LaPorta got drafted as well

 

[Navy Cat]

So you’re saying they had a really strong defense and good offensive line, but not a lot of offense and wins to show for it? Sounds like quite a few UK teams during much of the CMS era. I do believe Coach Stoops is working hard to remedy that, and I think he will this season. I feel Iowa’s pain last year, but to be fair, that’s been the Ferentz model for years. He just didn’t have the QB and playmakers to take advantage.

 

[Soupbean]

Jack Campbell will be an all pro down the road. Really good.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

So you’re saying they had a really strong defense and good offensive line, but not a lot of offense and wins to show for it? Sounds like quite a few UK teams during much of the CMS era. I do believe Coach Stoops is working hard to remedy that, and I think he will this season. I feel Iowa’s pain last year, but to be fair, that’s been the Ferentz model for years. He just didn’t have the QB and playmakers to take advantage.

I think it says more about the OC not having a clue how to get his offense into some kind of rythem and able to play with any confidence. If his name were anything else he would have been fired. But hard to fir kinfolk

 

[Finna_Go_HAM]

@rucker4 Thoughts?

 

[rucker4]

Since we played them last two bowl games, I started paying more attention to Iowa. They had two players off their defense picked in the first 20 picks (Van Ness and Campbell), and a third player in the 3rd round or so (Moss). This AM, I saw a mock draft that had Cooper DeJean (he had the 2nd pick six against us) projected as a 1st round pick, and can't remember his name, but the safety that had the first pick six in Nashville was one of the highest rated recruits ever to sign with Iowa, IIRC. When I saw them at the Citrus Bowl, thought they were the best defense we played all year, except for Georgia.

So . . . given that they had at least two, and maybe three or even four potential first round picks on defense, and an AA punter, but still barely finished 7-5, I can see where the Hawkeye faithful might have been a bit cheesed off at Ferentz's son and the "offense" that he put on the field each game.

The problem with Iowa isn't their defense. Check out the stats. Annually one of America's best defenses.

The problem was their terrible offense and lack of productivity.

This is not difficult to understand.

Iowa has had 3 1st round picks in past two drafts-- Linderbaum at C, Van Ness at DT, Campbell LB.

LaPorta at TE chosen just 3 picks into the 2nd round this year.

DeJean will be 1st rounder next year.

 

[K_TIME]

Ferenz and/or his son at OC is a problem. I have a Iowa friend...he's as much resigned it's Dad as much as it is the son.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Ferenz and/or his son at OC is a problem. I have a Iowa friend...he's as much resigned it's Dad as much as it is the son.

Ferenz ran a good program earlier, they had some good teams in his early years. He was popular with the fans and my understanding was he was moving his son up the coaching ranks with the intent of pushing the son as his replacement when he retires. But his term as OC has been a disaster and no chance of the son being named as the next coach.

 

[rucker4]

Ferenz ran a good program earlier, they had some good teams in his early years. He was popular with the fans and my understanding was he was moving his son up the coaching ranks with the intent of pushing the son as his replacement when he retires. But his term as OC has been a disaster and no chance of the son being named as the next coach.

You probably should look at the 4-year span of Iowa records from 2018-2021; about the best span of Iowa football ever. I'll help you out: 43-18 in those 4 years. Therefore, you're inaccurate to think the Iowa program hasn't been strong in recent years.

Since 2015 they have had 3 seasons where they have won 10 or more games.

They have been recruiting better in national rankings in recent years than ever.

2022 was underachieving but so was Kentucky's last year.

 

[rucker4]

From where I sat in both games, they had one of the best tes in college football. OL play was really good too.

Iowa TE's in last 20 years:

Dallas Clark
Tony Moeki
George Kittle
Noah Fant
TJ Hockensen
Sam LaPorta

Next year they likely will have a top 2 or 3 round TE chosen in Luke Lachey.

Eric All a portal TE transfer from Michigan could go pro after this next year if he chooses. He's likely a 2nd round guy when he enters.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

Glad to see the Iowa boys in the draft 😎

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

You probably should look at the 4-year span of Iowa records from 2018-2021; about the best span of Iowa football ever. I'll help you out: 43-18 in those 4 years. Therefore, you're inaccurate to think the Iowa program hasn't been strong in recent years.

Since 2015 they have had 3 seasons where they have won 10 or more games.

They have been recruiting better in national rankings in recent years than ever.

2022 was underachieving but so was Kentucky's last year.

Isn't that averaging 4.5 losses per year? Your idea of a strong program and mine are different. That would get my coach fired. Are you also happy with the offensive production and fully support young Ferenz being named to replace his dad when he steps down?

UK's QB had some nagging injuries last season and missed at least 1 game , arguably it's best player missed 4 games as well.

 

[K_TIME]

You probably should look at the 4-year span of Iowa records from 2018-2021; about the best span of Iowa football ever. I'll help you out: 43-18 in those 4 years. Therefore, you're inaccurate to think the Iowa program hasn't been strong in recent years.

Since 2015 they have had 3 seasons where they have won 10 or more games.

They have been recruiting better in national rankings in recent years than ever.

2022 was underachieving but so was Kentucky's last year.

I like Iowa...but your'e a bit off base with how amazing Iowa is. THey are a slightly better version of UK.

You guys play in a crap divison of P5 football. Nebraska, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin. I mean seriously. It's beyond obvious Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St and at times Michigan St are all better than anything on your side of Big 10. That is a huge reason you get to 9-10 wins so often. You play Iowa St....who is like UL for us and the rest non conference bums. Try scoring 13 pts a game in SEC and see how many wins you rack up.

I think Iowa is a good program....but like any other conference...go play a SEC slate and you're exactly looking like UK (who is now respectable but we're hardly a great team most years....just respectable).

 

[trueblujr2]

Ferenz and/or his son at OC is a problem. I have a Iowa friend...he's as much resigned it's Dad as much as it is the son.

Well, we want Dad to stick around for a long long time because that's one job I fear losing Stoops to, being it's his alma mater and all.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Well, we want Dad to stick around for a long long time because that's one job I fear losing Stoops to, being it's his alma mater and all.

I don't know how long Stoops plans to coach, and at one time I thought Iowa would be a threat when the current coach decided to step away. Don't really have a reason, but I no longer think Iowa would be a big threat. I guess my reasons are he is mid 50's, he has been at UK 12 years, maybe 13,he's well compensated, he has built UK from the ground up.

 

[rucker4]

Well, we want Dad to stick around for a long long time because that's one job I fear losing Stoops to, being it's his alma mater and all.

Ive said before, the only place Mark stoops would leave Kentucky for would be Iowa. I dont know if that will ever happen because there are so many variables that could change. I don't see Ferentz retiring in the next year or so even though he will be 68 by the time the season starts. How things play out with his son I do think will have a potential bearing on things for Kirk's long term.

 

[rucker4]

Isn't that averaging 4.5 losses per year? Your idea of a strong program and mine are different. That would get my coach fired. Are you also happy with the offensive production and fully support young Ferenz being named to replace his dad when he steps down?

UK's QB had some nagging injuries last season and missed at least 1 game , arguably it's best player missed 4 games as well.

So Iowa's record has been better than Kentucky's, you say Iowa's record would get your coach fired-- assuming you mean Kentucky-- yet you are propping up your guy? Yeah, makes as much sense as your little informed comment to start with. I understand your screenname well. Some of you casual fans need to stop and listen to what comes from your mouth to understand how casual you are.

 

[rucker4]

I like Iowa...but your'e a bit off base with how amazing Iowa is. THey are a slightly better version of UK.

You guys play in a crap divison of P5 football. Nebraska, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Illinois and Wisconsin. I mean seriously. It's beyond obvious Michigan, Ohio St, Penn St and at times Michigan St are all better than anything on your side of Big 10. That is a huge reason you get to 9-10 wins so often. You play Iowa St....who is like UL for us and the rest non conference bums. Try scoring 13 pts a game in SEC and see how many wins you rack up.

I think Iowa is a good program....but like any other conference...go play a SEC slate and you're exactly looking like UK (who is now respectable but we're hardly a great team most years....just respectable).

Slow down dude, you got your panties in a bunch pretty easily here. I didn't even reply to you, and didn't start some thread comparing the two programs. Didn't even mentioned Kentucky's record anywhere. Instead, I pointed out facts on the draft picks for Iowa and Iowa's recent records. Then a second post simply mentioning Iowa's TEs into the NFL over the past 20 years as that's an impressive list by anyone's accounts. I made no claims Iowa is the best here or there or any of that. Why are you so bothered by that? Seriously, untangle the panties, chill, and try not being so sensitive on what I said in my original post here or one here just now. You'll feel better I promise.

 

[gamalielkid]

Slow down dude, you got your panties in a bunch pretty easily here. I didn't even reply to you, and didn't start some thread comparing the two programs. Didn't even mentioned Kentucky's record anywhere. Instead, I pointed out facts on the draft picks for Iowa and Iowa's recent records. Then a second post simply mentioning Iowa's TEs into the NFL over the past 20 years as that's an impressive list by anyone's accounts. I made no claims Iowa is the best here or there or any of that. Why are you so bothered by that? Seriously, untangle the panties, chill, and try not being so sensitive on what I said in my original post here or one here just now. You'll feel better I promise.

Rucker - in case you didn;t know or realize it. Grumpy is a Georgia fan who posts here on our free board. His comments regarding getting his coach fired would be regarding Georgia - not Kentucky. Grumpy has good knowledge about Georgia and much of the SEC. Good luck with winning the Big 10 West or whatever it is now called. Lots of changes coming to both leagues with expansion for sure.

Go Big Blue!

 

[K_TIME]

Slow down dude, you got your panties in a bunch pretty easily here. I didn't even reply to you, and didn't start some thread comparing the two programs. Didn't even mentioned Kentucky's record anywhere. Instead, I pointed out facts on the draft picks for Iowa and Iowa's recent records. Then a second post simply mentioning Iowa's TEs into the NFL over the past 20 years as that's an impressive list by anyone's accounts. I made no claims Iowa is the best here or there or any of that. Why are you so bothered by that? Seriously, untangle the panties, chill, and try not being so sensitive on what I said in my original post here or one here just now. You'll feel better I promise.

YOu're a good Iowa fan and poster. Just see Iowa a solid program but not great and is part of mirage of winning a crappy division in Big 10 a few times props them up a bit more than they deserve.

No issues with me and you...

 

[rucker4]

Rucker - in case you didn;t know or realize it. Grumpy is a Georgia fan who posts here on our free board. His comments regarding getting his coach fired would be regarding Georgia - not Kentucky. Grumpy has good knowledge about Georgia and much of the SEC. Good luck with winning the Big 10 West or whatever it is now called. Lots of changes coming to both leagues with expansion for sure.

Go Big Blue!

Yeah, I remember now-- he's not even a Kentucky fan so easy for him to want to beat his chest with Georgia. He has little understanding what it's like to root for an Iowa or a Kentucky when they don't have the luxury of dozens and dozens of in-state prospects as does Georgia. For the record, Iowa and Kentucky have done quite well through the years despite not being a blue blood in the sport or having the same advantages the blue bloods have. Just in the Big 10, it's hard enough to contend with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State-- and in one year, having to add USC and UCLA to that list. Like the Cats, we just keep grinding.

 

[rucker4]

YOu're a good Iowa fan and poster. Just see Iowa a solid program but not great and is part of mirage of winning a crappy division in Big 10 a few times props them up a bit more than they deserve.

No issues with me and you...

I'll let the so-called experts determine what level every program is at. As you see in my last post previous to this one-- replying to gamalielkid--I'm very proud of what the Iowa program has achieved with the cards we are dealt-- including guys to the NFL. I like the 4 Top 10 finishes nationally in the 20 past years and overall record and particularly 4 of the last 5 years have been quite good.

All's good with you and most Kentucky fans in my book.

 

[Tskware]

Yeah, I remember now-- he's not even a Kentucky fan so easy for him to want to beat his chest with Georgia. He has little understanding what it's like to root for an Iowa or a Kentucky when they don't have the luxury of dozens and dozens of in-state prospects as does Georgia.

I would further argue that the all city team from Atlanta would beat the Kentucky all star team by five TDs most years, probably true for the All Iowa team as well.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

So Iowa's record has been better than Kentucky's, you say Iowa's record would get your coach fired-- assuming you mean Kentucky-- yet you are propping up your guy? Yeah, makes as much sense as your little informed comment to start with. I understand your screenname well. Some of you casual fans need to stop and listen to what comes from your mouth to understand how casual you are.

You are assuming things that aren't fact, and I am not propping up anyone. I just said your coach was spending alot of goodwill he had earned by keeping his son as OC. Will you be happy if he is named your next head coach?

 

[gamecockcat]

I would further argue that the all city team from Atlanta would beat the Kentucky all star team by five TDs most years, probably true for the All Iowa team as well.

No doubt in my mind that's true. Of course, greater Atlanta by itself has >> population than either KY or IA. Plus, heavier AA population, better weather to play more year-round, football >> basketball and all other sports in GA, etc.

Just for giggles, I looked up the 2022 HS class in Georgia: 5-5*, 32 - 4*, 144 - 3* rated HS players. Would the state of KY (or IA) produce similar numbers in TEN years? 180+ 3* or above in one year. Gives UGa a SLIGHT advantage over UK in football recruiting, wouldn't you think ?

 

[rucker4]

You are assuming things that aren't fact, and I am not propping up anyone. I just said your coach was spending alot of goodwill he had earned by keeping his son as OC. Will you be happy if he is named your next head coach?

I live in Iowa, close to the Iowa scene. Brian won't be Iowa's next HC. No worries here.

 

[rucker4]

I would further argue that the all city team from Atlanta would beat the Kentucky all star team by five TDs most years, probably true for the All Iowa team as well.

Agree.

In the most amazing of years, the state of Iowa will produce 8 DI football recruits. Guessing not much different in Kentucky.

 

[seccats04]

They had a top 5 defense and a bottom 5 offense.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I would further argue that the all city team from Atlanta would beat the Kentucky all star team by five TDs most years, probably true for the All Iowa team as well.

Not so fast, in the actual Atlanta school system football doesn't do well. The teams that do well in Fulton County have their own school system. Only rarely does an actual Atlanta school system advance very far in the playoffs. Now the adjoining school systems are loaded, mostly because the recruit the inner city kids. It isn't hard, much nicer facilities, equipment. Buford is about to Build a 50m football only stadium. I don't know about 5 TDs but you could field a very good team with kids from Gwinnette Co. I think there are 16, maybe 18 HS in it and all playing 6 and 7A ball. 2 largest, and a handful of private schools that play smaller class. I haven't researched it, but I would think 100+ kids from there sign FBS. But lots of people there too.

 

[The-Hack]

That would get my coach fired.

Grumpy, here is how you get into trouble: this thread and Rucker’s posts (1) have nothing to do with your Coach, your program, or the SEC, and (2) no one was comparing Iowa’s successes explicitly or implicitly to UGA, and (3) we all know Georgia has won two national titles in-a-row . . . . even Big Ten fans know it.

Again, congrats!!

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Grumpy, here is how you get into trouble: this thread and Rucker’s posts (1) have nothing to do with your Coach, your program, or the SEC, and (2) no one was comparing Iowa’s successes explicitly or implicitly to UGA, and (3) we all know Georgia has won two national titles in-a-row . . . . even Big Ten fans know it.

Again, congrats!!

I never brought my coach up or named my team. He didn't know who my team was and I didn't tell him. 10 years ago UK would have considered a 4-5 loss season a good season, but you don't today. I sure wouldn't mention 18 losses in 4 seasons for showing the suspension of my team.

 

[The-Hack]

That would get my coach fired.

I never brought my coach up

Hmmmm.

Pardon me. The fact that you mentioned “my coach” mislead me to believe you had, indeed “brought my coach up.”

Both you and Rucker are multiple year visiting fans.

We (and each of you) know who each poster is . . . or you’ve been paying poor attention.

The “strong years” referenced by Rucker were obviously not juxtaposed against the successes of Kirby (oh, shit, I mentioned his name!).

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Hmmmm.

Pardon me. The fact that you mentioned “my coach” mislead me to believe you had, indeed “brought my coach up.”

Both you and Rucker are multiple year visiting fans.

We (and each of you) know who each poster is . . . or you’ve been paying poor attention.

The “strong years” referenced by Rucker were obviously not juxtaposed against the successes of Kirby (oh, shit, I mentioned his name!).

I knew he was an Iowa fan. I don't see anything wrong with what I posted or why anything I said would upset a UK fan. I get it if people are looking for something to whine about my post, there is nothing I can post that those will approve of. Once again, would you be happy with 7-5, 8-4 season and consider those strong seasons?

 

[The-Hack]

Once again, would you be happy with 7-5, 8-4 season and consider those strong seasons?

No. We’ve had ten win seasons and I want more!

But to complete your analogy, if I were a guest on an Iowa forum four years from now, and a Vandy fan posted that their new Coach had completed four successive seasons at 6-6, or 7-5, and that that record was strong for Vanderbilt, my response would not be a comparison to “my coach,” or “my program,” where a .500 record might get a Coach fired.

It would be too dickish!

 

[rucker4]

No doubt in my mind that's true. Of course, greater Atlanta by itself has >> population than either KY or IA. Plus, heavier AA population, better weather to play more year-round, football >> basketball and all other sports in GA, etc.

Just for giggles, I looked up the 2022 HS class in Georgia: 5-5*, 32 - 4*, 144 - 3* rated HS players. Would the state of KY (or IA) produce similar numbers in TEN years? 180+ 3* or above in one year. Gives UGa a SLIGHT advantage over UK in football recruiting, wouldn't you think ?

The entire state of Iowa has had 3 5* kids to my recollection in the past 20 years. Maybe 8-10 4* kids in that same time frame. That's insane how much high end talent lies within a couple hours of the Georgia campus.

 

[rucker4]

I never brought my coach up or named my team. He didn't know who my team was and I didn't tell him. 10 years ago UK would have considered a 4-5 loss season a good season, but you don't today. I sure wouldn't mention 18 losses in 4 seasons for showing the suspension of my team.

Hard to ever have many losses at all in any period of time when you have the ridiculous amount of talent that lies within a couple hours or less of campus.

As another posted:

Just for giggles, I looked up the 2022 HS class in Georgia: 5-5*, 32 - 4*, 144 - 3* rated HS players. Would the state of KY (or IA) produce similar numbers in TEN years? 180+ 3* or above in one year. Gives UGa a SLIGHT advantage over UK in football recruiting, wouldn't you think ?

That's just insane. All people like The Hack and others here are saying to you is have an awareness at least that comparing Georgia to either Kentucky or Iowa is an apples to oranges argument.

 

[gamalielkid]

Hard to ever have many losses at all in any period of time when you have the ridiculous amount of talent that lies within a couple hours or less of campus.

As another posted:

Just for giggles, I looked up the 2022 HS class in Georgia: 5-5*, 32 - 4*, 144 - 3* rated HS players. Would the state of KY (or IA) produce similar numbers in TEN years? 180+ 3* or above in one year. Gives UGa a SLIGHT advantage over UK in football recruiting, wouldn't you think ?

That's just insane. All people like The Hack and others here are saying to you is have an awareness at least that comparing Georgia to either Kentucky or Iowa is an apples to oranges argument.

Iowa and now Kentucky are doing very well when you compare the pool of high school talent that is easily accessible to them. The wild card for both of them is this fact. (Which Georgia has as well - just so much larger of course) is Kentucky is now starting to get kids from Kentucky who WANT to go to Kentucky and play for the name on the Jersey. It reminds of countries at war. When you are fighting for your home you fight harder, longer and your emotions come into play to protect what you love and live for - your school and state! For so many years any talented kids from Kentucky or even the immediate area who were good players never considered Kentucky in reality. Kentucky previously rarely won the battle for the best players in the state! For years U of L even dominated UK in that respect. That fact has changed and young men choosing Kentucky are no longer told you can't win at UK or you can't do bigger things at Kentucky!

Many reasons for this from the past - the asset of UK Being an SEC member was both an advantage and a negative. Kentucky has had to over come 50 plus years of poor commitment to football - which that is no longer the case! Even though Florida dominated UK for so many years - that tide has changed and when UK plays Florida now I believe the team AND the fans are no longer holding their breaths and saying how are we going to lose this time! We go into that game with a chip on our shoulder now and want to beat Florida and have the confidence we will beat them! Life long UK fans know exactly what I am saying. We still haven't erased that emotional response when we play Tennessee - hopefully this year will be the year that changes too! Tennessee has come into our game with the pyschological advantage thinking no matter what, that they are destined to beat Kentucky. The game two years ago was a perfect example of how that has turned out for the last 75 years!

This could be a great year - but many predict it will be a mediocre year - the reason it can be a good team is we have quality players and coaches who know they are good players and have shown them that Kentucky is a good football program now and they are a part of it! Our depth has improved tremendously - but injuries are still a huge part of the game. Just last year injuries was the primary reason we finished 7-6 instead of 11-2! The transfer portal has shown us that good players recognize and understand what I am saying - as they have chosen to join our program instead of others! Yes other teams have injuries - but the championship teams have the depth to overcome injuries! We are getting closer and closer, but we still need the injury bug to leave us alone to win big!

Go Big Blue!

 

[bluecoon1]

Iowa and now Kentucky are doing very well when you compare the pool of high school talent that is easily accessible to them. The wild card for both of them is this fact. (Which Georgia has as well - just so much larger of course) is Kentucky is now starting to get kids from Kentucky who WANT to go to Kentucky and play for the name on the Jersey. It reminds of countries at war. When you are fighting for your home you fight harder, longer and your emotions come into play to protect what you love and live for - your school and state! For so many years any talented kids from Kentucky or even the immediate area who were good players never considered Kentucky in reality. Kentucky previously rarely won the battle for the best players in the state! For years U of L even dominated UK in that respect. That fact has changed and young men choosing Kentucky are no longer told you can't win at UK or you can't do bigger things at Kentucky!

Many reasons for this from the past - the asset of UK Being an SEC member was both an advantage and a negative. Kentucky has had to over come 50 plus years of poor commitment to football - which that is no longer the case! Even though Florida dominated UK for so many years - that tide has changed and when UK plays Florida now I believe the team AND the fans are no longer holding their breaths and saying how are we going to lose this time! We go into that game with a chip on our shoulder now and want to beat Florida and have the confidence we will beat them! Life long UK fans know exactly what I am saying. We still haven't erased that emotional response when we play Tennessee - hopefully this year will be the year that changes too! Tennessee has come into our game with the pyschological advantage thinking no matter what, that they are destined to beat Kentucky. The game two years ago was a perfect example of how that has turned out for the last 75 years!

This could be a great year - but many predict it will be a mediocre year - the reason it can be a good team is we have quality players and coaches who know they are good players and have shown them that Kentucky is a good football program now and they are a part of it! Our depth has improved tremendously - but injuries are still a huge part of the game. Just last year injuries was the primary reason we finished 7-6 instead of 11-2! The transfer portal has shown us that good players recognize and understand what I am saying - as they have chosen to join our program instead of others! Yes other teams have injuries - but the championship teams have the depth to overcome injuries! We are getting closer and closer, but we still need the injury bug to leave us alone to win big!

Go Big Blue!

A lot of what happens when you get to the college level is a combination of talent and coaching. We’ve seen in the past what Stoops can do with 3* kids with some 4* guys sprinkled in and imo that had a lot to do with the staff. Then again we witnessed what happened with Scang and though we struggled with the line he did absolutely nothing to scheme around his weakness. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll take a roster of 4-5* guys all day but though that will never happen here the only option is to identify guys who can be coached up and commit to payroll for hiring a staff that can do that. If that happens, we should expect to be a program that can consistently win 8-10 games every year with outliers of 7 and 11.