Cal the best with top talent myth

[etownblue25]

I keep hearing Matt Jones say Cal is the best with top talent. Is it just me or did most of Kentuckys success under Cal coe from last second shots and eeked out wins by superior talented teams?

Cal has constantly underachieved with top talent teams

2010- Elite 8 -Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, and a host of other NBA players Elite 8 loss to an Average UWV team
2011- Final 4-A Brandon Knight miracle shot to beat Ohio St and then loss to Uconn
2012- National Championship (the one year it didnt take a miracle shot to advance to the final four) with a once in a lifetime player and NBA talent all around.
2013- NIT
2014-FInal 4 with Miracle shot after miracle shot to get there. Again, a loaded team
2015- Final 4 loss to Wisconsin with the most loaded team in NCAA history, Dont forget barely beating Notre Dame to advance.
2016-19- Super talented teams with NBA rosters that couldnt advance to the final four
20-23- No tourny wins.

With the talent disparity Cal had he should had rolled through the tourny. But he just barely, luckily eeked a bunch of games out.
We keep bragging about over 50 NBA players, 8 All stars and the resume above is what Cal has to show for it? To me its more of an indictment than a bragging point.

 

[shaudyshaud]

Well that’s why many feel like Cal has underachieved . Plenty of people comment about the fact that he should have done more considering the NBA talent he has had .

 

[cats#1again]

I keep hearing Matt Jones say Cal is the best with top talent. Is it just me or did most of Kentuckys success under Cal coe from last second shots and eeked out wins by superior talented teams?

Cal has constantly underachieved with top talent teams

2010- Elite 8 -Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, and a host of other NBA players Elite 8 loss to an Average UWV team
2011- Final 4-A Brandon Knight miracle shot to beat Ohio St and then loss to Uconn
2012- National Championship (the one year it didnt take a miracle shot to advance to the final four) with a once in a lifetime player and NBA talent all around.
2013- NIT
2014-FInal 4 with Miracle shot after miracle shot to get there. Again, a loaded team
2015- Final 4 loss to Wisconsin with the most loaded team in NCAA history, Dont forget barely beating Notre Dame to advance.
2016-19- Super talented teams with NBA rosters that couldnt advance to the final four
20-23- No tourny wins.

With the talent disparity Cal had he should had rolled through the tourny. But he just barely, luckily eeked a bunch of games out.
We keep bragging about over 50 NBA players, 8 All stars and the resume above is what Cal has to show for it? To me its more of an indictment than a bragging point.

Yea it's you
Superior talented based on what??? The NBA ?
They weren't any more talented than the next guy at the college level

 

[rabbitTown]

Well that’s why many feel like Cal has underachieved . Plenty of people comment about the fact that he should have done more considering the NBA talent he has had .

It's really much more nuanced and deeper than even the OP posted.
It isn't even so much that he did so little with so much talent... as many have rightfully argued, there are many coaches that could have done equally good or better with the same kids.
But to put it into perspective... they are just still kids. It was CCCs sole reliance on these kids... his recruiting system that failed, got us into this mess... and worse, robbed us of senior nights and kids that took long-term pride in being 'from' Kentucky.
But worst of all... kids that didn't have to earn their place to start... not redshirt... or even suit up. Because their NBA upside was too great... and CCC isn't shy about saying that is why he is here.
It is funny that he has also always said (referring to players) that "This place isn't for everyone"... no, it is for kids that have the potential to play in the NBA (someday) but are forced to sit out a year from HS. The Sharpe debacle last season was the epitome of the CCC system. CCC doesn't evaluate the kids he brings in and their fit to his coaching style (lol)... Rivals and ESPN do. What a job, when all you have to do is yell "Go" with eyes and belly popping out.
He's recently added that "this place isn't for everyone..." also applies to coaches. What an absurdly odd statement.
And, too bad for those kids that couldn't cut it in the first year... they are pushed out (or benched) for the next crop, because you can't get the new kids to the NBA lottery unless you showcase them... and keep your promises to them.

 

[Kyhoward]

Agree rabbitTown with everything in your post.

I have said in many of my posts on this site that COW tries to recruit a number of highly rated players that are athletic, have wingspan, can jump (measureables) but are not necessarily basketball players. They have potential to become good to great basketball players while also having a high likelihood of failing. What COW refuses to do is recruit complementary players that can be molded into a team, players that can shoot, rebound, pass, dribble (basketball players). As you say, COW relies on these "kids" out of high school to compete and beat teams with experienced college players. I read the other day since 2015, Kansas had signed 12 kids rated in the Top 50 and UK had signed 36 kids. While these rating systems are very subjective and highly based on a kid's potential ability to play basketball, they do provide a barometer. So a quick comparison shows CCC getting 3X the number of Top 50 recruits that Kansas has had on their teams since 2015. Kansas has far outshone our egotistical coach in that time period. The myth revealed!

You cannot have a roster with 3 or 4 One and Done players every year. WHY? Because every year you have to recruit 3 or 4 more and there is little team continuity from year to year. What happens if 2 of the 4 "can't miss 5*" need another year. You have a mess and not a recruiting blueprint for success. Give me a team with players who have been in the program for 3-4 years and I will gladly coach them against your 18/19 year old freshman team that has no experience on the college level.

The best example that I know of the ultimate team at UK is the 1998 NCAA Champs (could also make the case for the 1978 Champs). If you back at that roster now, there were 2 players (Nazr and Magloire) that played for any length of time in the NBA. A balanced roster of 3 Seniors, 4 Juniors, and 1 Sophomore that primarily played. Pick out a 5* from this bunch - I think Jeff Sheppard and maybe Wayne Turner were 4* out of high school. But these 8 players had basketball skills and were team players that did not care who got the glory as long as UK got the win. I don't know the odds going into that season, but UK had just come off winning it all in 1996 and a runner up finish in 1997 so most of the talent that won in 1996 was gone. Mills could shoot but little else and had sit on the bench for 3 years, Turner was not a shooter but a great playmaker and defensive player. Padgett, Evans, and Edwards were good but not great college players. Nazr had not played much going into the season and Magliore was a freshman. Beside the freshman, these were Pitino's recruits that a new coach Tubby Smith took to the championship, an unbelievable feat to me. But they complimented each other and were the definition of team. Without Turner, we don't beat Duke. Without the benchwarmer Mills, we don't beat Utah
.
My concept in recruiting is you might take a flyer on a basketball player that does not have the measurables, a player that is a great physical specimen and athlete that is not yet a basketball player, a player that has a specific skill such as shooting/rebounding etc but little else. You are baking a cake and all of the ingredients contribute to the final product. CCC while lauded as a great recruiter, in my opinion, is a very poor recruiter as he does not know how to bring in new players that will compliment existing players with the ultimate goal of having the best team possible that particular year. But again that is not his stated goal of getting players into the NBA and ending their generational poverty. I feel the administration is just as implicit as COW in allowing his goals to supersede the goals of the university's basketball program and should have been dealt with when COW made his idiotic comment about the greatest day in the history of UK basketball.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

I keep hearing Matt Jones say Cal is the best with top talent. Is it just me or did most of Kentuckys success under Cal coe from last second shots and eeked out wins by superior talented teams?

Cal has constantly underachieved with top talent teams

2010- Elite 8 -Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, and a host of other NBA players Elite 8 loss to an Average UWV team
2011- Final 4-A Brandon Knight miracle shot to beat Ohio St and then loss to Uconn
2012- National Championship (the one year it didnt take a miracle shot to advance to the final four) with a once in a lifetime player and NBA talent all around.
2013- NIT
2014-FInal 4 with Miracle shot after miracle shot to get there. Again, a loaded team
2015- Final 4 loss to Wisconsin with the most loaded team in NCAA history, Dont forget barely beating Notre Dame to advance.
2016-19- Super talented teams with NBA rosters that couldnt advance to the final four
20-23- No tourny wins.

With the talent disparity Cal had he should had rolled through the tourny. But he just barely, luckily eeked a bunch of games out.
We keep bragging about over 50 NBA players, 8 All stars and the resume above is what Cal has to show for it? To me its more of an indictment than a bragging point.

And remember he could have easily lost to Kansas in the 12 title game by grinding the game out (like be ALWAYS does!) Kansas was coming back in the final minutes of the game