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All-Time MLB Draft Round 1 drcats2013 vs. WilmoreCat

Who wins H2H in a Best of 7 World Series Format?

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    22
  • Poll closed .
DraftCat

DraftCat

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Nov 5, 2011
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This is Round 1 of an All-Time MLB Draft. 8 Position players... 4 Starting Pitchers.. 1 Closer (No Bench)

Objective: Head 2 Head which team wins in a best of 7 (World Series)

Rules
1. Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani can only be used as either a pitcher or position player.
2. Arguments are based on career averages (No 1 year wonders)
3. Two Days of voting you will be allowed to change your pick and your pick is public.

Link to Playoffs click here



@drcats2013 - Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Tom Seaver, Derek Jeter, Frank Thomas, Ivan Rodriguez, Ryne Sandberg, Vlad Guerrero, Kirby Puckett, Billy Wagner, Juan Marichal, Hal Newhouser, Ron Santo


vs.


@WilmoreCat - Pete Rose, Nolan Ryan, Tony Gwynn, Miguel Cabrera, Barry Larkin, Roy Halladay, Trevor Hoffman, Bryce Harper, Jose Altuve, Zack Greinke, Edgar Martinez, Buster Posey, Felix Hernandez
 
This team is clutch. Experienced. Talented having all but 2 hitters bat over .300. Countless numbers of MVP’s and World Series’ combined all in the modern era. My lowest BA is .280 by Bryce Harper and last year in his playoffs he bat nearly .500 leading his team to a World Series appearance (who lost to my Gold Glove arguably the best second baseman of this era.)

1: Pete Rose ( 17x all star, all time hits leader, .303 career BA, WS MVP, 3x WS Champion)

2:Tony Gwynn (.340 BA, 15x All star)

3: Barry Larkin (MVP, .295 BA, 12x All star, 1x WS)

4: Miguel Cabrera (2x MVP, .308 BA, 12x All Star)

5:Bryce Harper (.280 BA, 2x MVP, 7x All Star)



6:Jose Altuve (.307 BA, MVP, 2x WS)

7:Edgar Martinez (.312 BA, 7x All Star)

8: Buster Posey (.302 BA, 1x MVP, 7x AS, 3x WS)



Pitchers:

  1. Nolan Ryan
  2. Roy Halladay
  3. Zach Greinke
  4. Felix Hernandez









Relief:

Trevor Hoffman (601 saves are SECOND all time only 7 behind Rivera)

Imagine the game on the line and being a hitter, and facing this.
Trevor Hoffman records his 479th career save to become the all-time saves leader

Positions:

RF- tony gwynn




CF-Bryce Harper

LF- Miguel Cabrera

1st- Pete Rose

2nd- jose altuve



SS-Barry Larkin

3rd- Edgar Martinez

Catcher- Buster Posey
 
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My question for my opponent is if Babe Ruth would even be able to play in this day of time. I love respecting the old days but let’s be real. Babe Ruth was overweight and out of shape in a much easier era. That’s a huge risk i’m not willing to take for him. Your ace Walter Johnson is also from the 1920s and has not seen the talent of the modern generation.
 
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WilmoreCat said:
My question for my opponent is if Babe Ruth would even be able to play in this day of time. I love respecting the old days but let’s be real. Babe Ruth was overweight and out of shape in a much easier era. That’s a huge risk i’m not willing to take for him.
Click to expand...
How in the hell did you get Rose/Gwynn in the same draft?! Oughta be illegal! 🤣
 
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WilmoreCat said:
My question for my opponent is if Babe Ruth would even be able to play in this day of time. I love respecting the old days but let’s be real. Babe Ruth was overweight and out of shape in a much easier era. That’s a huge risk i’m not willing to take for him. Your ace Walter Johnson is also from the 1920s and has not seen the talent of the modern generation.
Click to expand...
Baseball is a sport primarily dictated by skill, not athleticism. And you are also assuming playing today, they wouldn't have gotten themselves in a bit better shape, with all the money thrown at them and what we know know today about training.
 
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This was the easiest to vote on so far.

Big Hurt >> Rose (only a .303 hitter, and didn't walk a lot, with no power)
Sandburg = Altuve (Altuve better hitter, but Sandburg evens it with defense)
Jeter > Larkin
Santo = Edgar (same as at 2b)
Ruth >> Miggy (and I like the Miggy pick, but...)
Vlad > Harper (Harper probably gets hurt in the series, but I assumed he didn't)
Puckett << Gwynn

Big Train > Ryan
Seaver > Halladay
Marichal > Greinke
Newhouser = King Felix

Wagner < Hoffman
 
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Pete Rose has 12 more all stars, two more batting titles, slightly better batting average, two more gold gloves, three more world series, one more world series MVP, and his longevity is out of Thomas’ league. Based off this being off a player’s career rather than peak i don’t believe it’s much of a discussion.

I give the edge to Altuve based off him winning World Series two different times being the face of the franchise and blossoming in the biggest playoff situations.


All other picks are understandable and debatable but I believe these two are incorrect, and that is not factoring that Babe Ruth and Johnson’s game transitions flawlessly to this era.
 
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JonathanW said:
This was the easiest to vote on so far.

Big Hurt >> Rose (only a .303 hitter, and didn't walk a lot, with no power)
Sandburg = Altuve (Altuve better hitter, but Sandburg evens it with defense)
Jeter > Larkin
Santo = Edgar (same as at 2b)
Ruth >> Miggy (and I like the Miggy pick, but...)
Vlad > Harper (Harper probably gets hurt in the series, but I assumed he didn't)
Puckett << Gwynn

Big Train > Ryan
Seaver > Halladay
Marichal > Greinke
Newhouser < King Felix

Wagner < Hoffman
Click to expand...
Yea. I will say, I really don’t know how this is close. Also, Newhouser is WAY over Felix when you look at what they did, and I drafted Wagner over Hoffman because I felt despite the longevity from Trevor, statistically he was better
 
WilmoreCat said:
Pete Rose has 12 more all stars, two more batting titles, slightly better batting average, two more gold gloves, three more world series, one more world series MVP, and his longevity is out of Thomas’ league. Based off this being off a player’s career rather than peak i don’t believe it’s much of a discussion.

I give the edge to Altuve based off him winning World Series two different times being the face of the franchise and blossoming in the biggest playoff situations.


All other picks are understandable and debatable but I believe these two are incorrect, and that is not factoring that Babe Ruth and Johnson’s game transitions flawlessly to this era.
Click to expand...
All Star appearances are popularity contests, almost meaningless. Rose was on the best team of the 70's, which almost made him a lock to be on the all-star team.
He was a good, very good player. But longevity is why he is considered great.

Rose hit .303, Thomas hit .301., that is very close.
Rose OBP was .375, Thomas was .419 (not close)
Rose Slg was .409, Thomas was .555. (hugely different)
In the 14 years Thomas played at least half a season, his worst Slg% was .471, in Rose's 23 such seasons his Slg% was better than Thomas's worst just once.
I don't even need to mention HRs.
Rose is known as a great hitter. His best hitting seasons were .348, .338, .335, .331, .325, .323, .317, .316, .313, .312. Very good indeed.
Thomas best hitting seasons were .353, .349, .347, .328, .323, .317, .308, .305.
So at their best, Thomas was at least as good a hitter, if not better.
Thomas was a much much better power hitter.
Thomas got on base much more.
MVPs, Thomas won 2, had 6 top 4, and 9 top 8 finishes. Rose won 1, had 7 top 7, 12 top 12. I slightly give Thomas the edge here too.
If you look at the average of their best 5 seasons, it's easily Thomas; average of best 10 seasons, it's easily Thomas; of best 15 seasons, it's easily Thomas; per162games, it is easily Thomas.
Rose, well, he lasted longer. Does that make him better? Wives will disagree (lol), but I don't think so.

Rose was the better defender, can't argue that one. I think your Rose pick would have been more efficient if used him at 2B or even 3B or OF, but agree that Altuve late in the draft was a good pick (tough to pass up, and Rose gave you the flexibility to take the best available from 4-5 positions), I like Altuve a lot.

You are likely a lifelong Reds fan that grew up in the 70's, I get it. For the same reason, I probably see Jim Rice and Robin Yount as better than they really were.
 
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@Cowtown Cat here we go, my friend. First off, my opponent is negatively viewing players like Babe Ruth and Walter Johnson due to when they played, so this is a negative reflection on EVERY team in this draft aside from his, as we all drafted these legends of the game.

  1. Derrick Jeter
  2. Vlad Guerrero
  3. Babe Ruth
  4. Frank Thomas
  5. Ivan Rodriguez
  6. Kirby Puckett
  7. Ryne Sandberg
  8. Ron Santo

Pitching
SP -Walter Johnson
SP - Tom Seaver
SP- Juan Marichal
SP- Hal Newhouser
CP - Billy Wagner

First let’s start with the pitching staff. I win at EVERY SPOT. Walter Johnson > Nolan Ryan. Tom Seaver > Roy Halladay. Juan Marichal > Zach Grienke, Hal Newhouser >> Felix, and to me, that isn’t even debatable. Like the pitching is so far skewed to me here it isn’t even funny. I personally picked Wagner over Hoffman in the draft despite Hoffmans longevity, as I felt he was a better closer and the stats do show that. Era is much better.

Now to our lineups.

Catcher- Ivan Rodriguez >> Buster Posey and this speaks for itself.
1B - Frank Thomas = Pete Rose - I’m calling this a wash due to Pete’s longevity, but man. Two time MVP Frank Thomas in his prime was unreal. Before the injuries hit, he was as good as any hitter in the game. I do understand if Pete takes the win here by most, though
2b - Ryne Sandberg = Jose Altuve - both MVPs. Jose is a better hitter but Ryne was much better defensively
3B- Ron Santo > Edgar Martinez - Edgar really never got established at 3B due to spending most of his career at DH, so while Edgar was an amazing hitter, Ron’s GG’s and still great hitting at the position gives him the edge
SS- Derek Jeter > Barry Larkin. We all love Barry as many Reds fans are on here, but Jeter is just a notch above him
OF- Vlad > Harper - Vlad as a near 40 point HIGHER career batting avg, and even has a 30 point higher slugging percentage.
OF - Puckett <Gwynn - gotta give my opponent a big edge here. Puckett was amazing but Gwynn was a notch ahead
OF - Ruth >> Miggy - I mean Miggy is amazing, but the Babe is the goat to most and gives me a big advantage here.

Overall, my pitching is FAR surperior to my opponents. Non debatably. In terms of our hitting, I give me a good edge here. I can understand if some see a few spots differently, but overall, I don’t think this matchup is close, really, aside from my opponent having a few “hometown favorites” in Rose and Larkin lol.

@Cowtown Cat here you go, man. If you think I lose after this I understand, but would respectfully love to hear how.
 
Cowtown Cat said:
I think you probably have more talent and definitely more power. However, who’s getting on base? I don’t see much speed on that roster. JMO.
Click to expand...
Cowtown team average OBP = .382
DRCats team aveage OBP = .381
They are getting on base about the same amount. Although Ruth's pulls DRCats up a bit more.

Even the steals is closer than you think. Cowtown with 1409 total Steals, and DRCats with 1333 total steals, so only 5% fewer. Altuve and Harper still playing, so they may add another 40-80 more. On Cowtown, Larkin, Gwynn and Altuve were threats, and Rose and Harper capable to steal. On DRCats Jeter and Sandberg were threats, and Vlad, Puckett, Pudge, even Ruth capable to steal. Although I'm sure we all question Ruth stealing, but somehow he had 123.
 
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JonathanW said:
Cowtown team average OBP = .382
DRCats team aveage OBP = .381
They are getting on base about the same amount. Although Ruth's pulls DRCats up a bit more.

Even the steals is closer than you think. Cowtown with 1409 total Steals, and DRCats with 1333 total steals, so only 5% fewer. Altuve and Harper still playing, so they may add another 40-80 more. On Cowtown, Larkin, Gwynn and Altuve were threats, and Rose and Harper capable to steal. On DRCats Jeter and Sandberg were threats, and Vlad, Puckett, Pudge, even Ruth capable to steal. Although I'm sure we all question Ruth stealing, but somehow he had 123.
Click to expand...
Noice evaluation!
 
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