ADVERTISEMENT

ZONE will NOT fix our issues

KingRex-3

Sophomore
Dec 27, 2005
1,367
43
48
All those crying that we need to play zone ARE NUTS. First & foremost... our problems START with EFFORT! Zone won't fix that... And more likely to make things even worse. Zone D tends to make u stand around more, Not to mention it's not as easy to rebound out of the zone.

Honestly... this team will play better after their 1st loss. There is no doubt that the undefeated talk is weighing on them.
 
Originally posted by KingRex-3:
All those crying that we need to play zone ARE NUTS. First & foremost... our problems START with EFFORT! Zone won't fix that... And more likely to make things even worse. Zone D tends to make u stand around more, Not to mention it's not as easy to rebound out of the zone.

Honestly... this team will play better after their 1st loss. There is no doubt that the undefeated talk is weighing on them.
laugh.r191677.gif
 
They why do you think other teams play zone against us? A zone has its place. UK needed one today to keep the free pass to the rim. A zone shoulnd't be looked at as a failure. Its a method to keep the other team away from the rim. Use it and see.
 
Originally posted by KingRex-3:
All those crying that we need to play zone ARE NUTS. First & foremost... our problems START with EFFORT! Zone won't fix that... And more likely to make things even worse. Zone D tends to make u stand around more, Not to mention it's not as easy to rebound out of the zone.

Honestly... this team will play better after their 1st loss. There is no doubt that the undefeated talk is weighing on them.
Some zone mixed in from time to time depending on your opponent can give your team the best chance to beat a team. I don't think anyone says play a standing zone and in a zone you have to play with as much effort as a man-man plus rebounding is effort whether its a zone or man-man. To say never play a zone is just as naïve as say playing all man-man defense.
 
Teams are pulling WCS out to the perimeter on switches, then telling their guards to beat ours off of the dribble. It is a good strategy, and it is working.

I agree a zone will not solve all of our problems, but I think it would put an end to that particular line of attack. Like Cal, I am not a fan of the zone, but I hope to see us use it if teams keep using that strategy against us.

This post was edited on 1/10 5:29 PM by deplion
 
We surrendered just 0.84 PPP today and have been dominant in man-to-man in all but a couple of games. Talk of a zone seems silly.

The offense was much worse than the defense today.



This post was edited on 1/10 5:25 PM by fatguy87
 
We were outscored 38-14 in the paint today. Yeah, he needs to look at playing zone from time to time.
 
Originally posted by fatguy87:
We surrendered just 0.84 PPP today and have been dominant in man-to-man in all but a couple of games. Talk of a zone seems silly.

The offense was much worse than the defense today.



This post was edited on 1/10 5:25 PM by fatguy87
Agree on the offense being worse.

We could not attack the interior of their zone at all. It caused us to launch way too many jumpers.

We need the Harrisons to penetrate and draw fouls / kick it back out. Or, we can have Lyles or Towns assert themselves in the middle of the zone and hit short jumpers or dish it off, but what we have done the last two games is a recipe for an early exit in March.
 
Cal will never play much zone, it's just not the way he likes to play and I don't like it either. However, today, they were getting killed by straight line drives. Maybe just try it a couple of possessions to see if it made a difference.
 
Originally posted by deplion:
Originally posted by fatguy87:
We surrendered just 0.84 PPP today and have been dominant in man-to-man in all but a couple of games. Talk of a zone seems silly.

The offense was much worse than the defense today.



This post was edited on 1/10 5:25 PM by fatguy87
Agree on the offense being worse.

We could not attack the interior of their zone at all. It caused us to launch way too many jumpers.

We need the Harrisons to penetrate and draw fouls / kick it back out. Or, we can have Lyles or Towns assert themselves in the middle of the zone and hit short jumpers or dish it off, but what we have done the last two games is a recipe for an early exit in March.
Part of the problem is that we never flash players into the center of the zone or pass into the interior of the zone. For whatever reason, we seem content to pass around the perimeter of the zone or screen the top of the zone. Like you said, I would like to see Lyles, Towns, WCS flash to the free throw lane and work inside out.

Frustrating, to say the least...
 
Zone will fix our issues because you're forgetting one simple response. If we play more Zone we'll finally learn the intricacies of the defense and learn how to overcome it. We play so poorly versus Zone that the only way to figure it out is to play it yourself. For the life of me a team that is 6'6, 6'6, 6'10,6'11,7'0 that doesn't play Zone is a travesty to the defense the size is suited to.
 
Originally posted by CatCop:
Zone will fix our issues because you're forgetting one simple response. If we play more Zone we'll finally learn the intricacies of the defense and learn how to overcome it. We play so poorly versus Zone that the only way to figure it out is to play it yourself. For the life of me a team that is 6'6, 6'6, 6'10,6'11,7'0 that doesn't play Zone is a travesty to the defense the size is suited to.
I would like to see us try some zone.
 
I agree with the OP to an extent. A&M not a great shooting team so a zone in your pocket might have been of some use. Lack of effort was the problem and that could occur in the zone as well but they would have been taking jumpers and not layups.

If we had played with effort today the zone would not be a discussion issue.
 
Gottlieb had a decent segment at halftime showing why they were getting layups. Basically it was lazy defense, not being where they were supposed to be, and not talking. All things that can be fixed without going to a zone. Besides, a zone is only as good as the coach teaching it. Boeheim has it down to a science, but not many coaches do. If a coach hates playing zone and seldom if ever uses one, then his team is not likely going to be successful if and when they do play zone.
 
Originally posted by deplion:
Teams are pulling WCS out to the perimeter on switches, then telling their guards to beat ours off of the dribble. It is a good strategy, and it is working.

I agree a zone will not solve all of our problems, but I think it would put an end to that particular line of attack. Like Cal, I am not a fan of the zone, but I hope to see us use it if teams keep using that strategy against us.

This post was edited on 1/10 5:29 PM by deplion
I must be confused. If WCS switches, then he is guarding a G, and his man is being guarded by one of our guards. So, their guard would then be driving on WCS, right?
 
Originally posted by SilentsAreGolden:

Originally posted by deplion:
Teams are pulling WCS out to the perimeter on switches, then telling their guards to beat ours off of the dribble. It is a good strategy, and it is working.

I agree a zone will not solve all of our problems, but I think it would put an end to that particular line of attack. Like Cal, I am not a fan of the zone, but I hope to see us use it if teams keep using that strategy against us.

This post was edited on 1/10 5:29 PM by deplion
I must be confused. If WCS switches, then he is guarding a G, and his man is being guarded by one of our guards. So, their guard would then be driving on WCS, right?
The guard (or sometimes small forward) that WCS is not on is the one who drives to the basket once Willie leaves it.
 
Oh God, is the "play zone" crowd already back this year? Unreal, these folks show up every year thinking a zone will fix the ills of the team, solve poverty and will create world peace. Damnation, we've finally unlocked the secret for every team in the NCAA to be successful, can't believe it was so simple and as clear as the nose on our face- play zone.

Please Lord, make these people go away!

This post was edited on 1/11 1:02 AM by ZZBlueComet
 
Cal isn't a zone defense coach. he doesn't like it and rarely uses it.
we'll never be a zone team. you'd probably be better served just getting over it until he leaves. then maybe we hire Jim Boeheim or however his stupid name is spelled.
 
Originally posted by DCFseattle:

Cal isn't a zone defense coach. he doesn't like it and rarely uses it.
we'll never be a zone team. you'd probably be better served just getting over it until he leaves. then maybe we hire Jim Boeheim or however his stupid name is spelled.
Cal's been to 3 Final Fours in 5 years but Mr. Zone (Boeheim) has been to less than that in his career.
 
Originally posted by CatCop:
Zone will fix our issues because you're forgetting one simple response. If we play more Zone we'll finally learn the intricacies of the defense and learn how to overcome it. We play so poorly versus Zone that the only way to figure it out is to play it yourself. For the life of me a team that is 6'6, 6'6, 6'10,6'11,7'0 that doesn't play Zone is a travesty to the defense the size is suited to.
I'd be shocked if they don't already practice against zone.
 
Zone sucks...there's a reason jim boeheim rarely gets past the sweet sixteen.

Lol at the poster that said, "well then why do teams run it against us." Because we are larger than some NBA teams and for the most part we're a poor shooting team. There's no reason with our size that we should ever run a zone...hilarious ppl think it's a save all defense..yeah considering no team except 1 runs it primarily or even half the time, nor does any nba team run it. You get em guys...better tell those gm's they should be running the box and 1 on lebron.
 
So, we should throw out the top defense in the nation to play zone? I can see adding it to our arsenal but, that could over-confuse the youthful players on this team and bend our chemistry too far.

I say, let Cal figure it out with what he knows and sees in his perception of what these guys are capable of doing.
 
Originally posted by 1stKatMan:
So, we should throw out the top defense in the nation to play zone?
Our fans don't make impulsive decisions at all, do they?

laugh.r191677.gif
 
We don't need to play zone. We need to keep our bigs at home. We had guys flashing out at TAMU's big stiffs 20 feet from the basket, despite no evidence they were a threat from out there.
 
You zone people are nutty as fruitcake!

The problem is an intensity and effort problem. With our effort we would have trouble with whatever defense we were playing.

Zone is for teams that have no other options (and Syracuse because Boheim is an idiot).
 
Not staying in a zone against UCONN cost us #9. That team couldn't function against a zone (see all 3 UofL games) and we came back from double digits using a zone... As soon as we caught up Cal went back to man. Having one ready for some change of possessions is handy. Cal may play some zone let 1 Trey go in & he is out of it.

BTW defense is not our problem. Poor shooting starting guards & soft big men who can't finish are much bigger issues
 
Citing Syracuse as a reason not to use the zone is just silly. I don't think anyone is advocating using a zone defense all game, every game. But as an occasional tool to throw at the other team for a few possessions during a game can be a very effective tool. It can disrupt the offensive flow of the other team.It can force the other team to adjust their offensive strategy. And it can force the coach of the other team to spend practice time preparing for a zone.

UK sees as much zone as it does precisely because it is perceived that the Cats are stronger in the paint than on the perimeter. But there were periods in the A&M game were the Aggies were absolutely dominating in the paint. Specifically in the first few minutes where A&M outscored the Cats 20 to 4 in the paint. And IMO the only reason UK didn't win in regular time against A&M is because the Aggies used an incredibly effective zone the last few minutes of the game.

I truly appreciate what Cal has done for UK and wouldn't want any other coach. But that doesn't mean he is perfect or that he doesn't occasionally need to change his strategy. Nor should it mean that he should be immune from criticism.
 
I do think a zone would have some short-term success. But, if we win these games wouldn't it be better for the team to see and learn from their defensive mistakes to improve as the season progresses? At half-time they demonstrated where defensive mistakes were made by Lee and I think Lyles allowing for open lay-ups by A. & M. Certainly, our coaching staff can do the same or even reply what was shown. Man to man will allow for control of tempo.
 
Listen people...no one said to play zone every play of every game. Just because we have the number one defense doesn't mean we can't do other things at times to help get a win. I guess A&M didn't get the memo about our defense because they ate our lunch inside with drive after drive. They shot 2 for 15 from the 3. Let them prove they can beat you from up top and stop the thing they are beating you with.

We would have lost this game had they hit a few free throws. They put more field goals in than we did. A zone can work. I've seen it work. Stop acting like its a disgrace to use it at times.
 
Again, it isn't a disgrace it is about what will be best in the long run. I thought about starting another thread about Cal's philosophy? I don't think he is making anything up when he says he wants teams to hit his team in the mouth, be in tough situations, etc. Us fans live and die with every game, but Cal is about the NCAA tourney and has expressed that he cares less about winning the SEC tourney or even the season. If it happens because his team performs, great, but he is about preparing for the tourney. It has worked pretty much except for the Noel season. I am sure he believes his teams best will be with a man-to-man defense not getting beat off the dribble, or through back door, and to control the boards.
 
Cal's been to 3 Final Fours in 5 years here, he's 15-0 this year - here's a good idea, let's zone........wow.
This post was edited on 1/11 4:33 PM by ZZBlueComet
 
Originally posted by CELTICAT:
We don't need to play zone. We need to keep our bigs at home. We had guys flashing out at TAMU's big stiffs 20 feet from the basket, despite no evidence they were a threat from out there.
That kind of is a zone.
 
I've rewatched our games so far this season and one thing that has happened since SEC play is that other teams are really putting pressure on us on D. They are using a hybrid zone with intense pressure and are slagging a man back to cut off the back door oop that we used to beat the zone early in the season.
Also Ole Miss and Texas AM really played well by far their best games of the year and we played so so. Not terrible but not great just an average game for us. The refs were pretty bad in Rupp and at AM letting the other teams get away with a lot of hacking and calling us for pretty much anything.
If the refs actually called fouls then the other team would be backing off a great deal on their pressure because they are hacking, grabbing, pushing, bumping etc off the ball and on the ball. Even while setting their screens they are putting their arms up on occasion in which we got called for an illegal pick against AM. They had done the same thing several times during the game. Towns started to give back what they were dishing out on us and he got called for a foul every time.


Ahh thats the life in the SEC, been this way for years.

Ole Miss really shot the ball well and made many rediculous shots. It wasn't Ulis that was giving them up cause of his size it was everybody. WCS and Towns both had 3's drilled right in their faces not to mention the twins. Ulis had several bad calls against him in the Ole Miss game in which he never touched the guy and was whistled for a foul.

I def think that what is occurring now (5 vs 8) is making us a better team and will do nothing but benefit us come tourney time as the refs are much more impartial in their calling.
 
Originally posted by ZZBlueComet:

Oh God, is the "play zone" crowd already back this year? Unreal, these folks show up every year thinking a zone will fix the ills of the team, solve poverty and will create world peace. Damnation, we've finally unlocked the secret for every team in the NCAA to be successful, can't believe it was so simple and as clear as the nose on our face- play zone.

Please Lord, make these people go away!
This post was edited on 1/11 1:02 AM by ZZBlueComet
What a poor take. Last years team was much better defensively playing zone than M2M. Cal's reluctancy to switch to the zone against UCONN cost us #9 last year. If your defense is working then no need to switch to something different, however not making a switch to try something different is not being a coach. Screaming and yelling FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT over and over is not coaching, switching up your defenses, making adjustments on offense, drawing up plays, etc is coaching. I saw none of that yesterday. One of the worse coached games actually I have seen from cal in awhile. Maybe cal wants them to lose, I don't know, but is coaching yesterday left a lot to be desired.

Waited at the end to call a TO with 1.3 seconds to go in regulation. Coming out of an earlier TO, Andrew drove the baseline into the abyss with absolutey nothing there. Not sure what the hell was supposed to happen on that play as nothing else was developing. Guess it was the tweak of attacking the rim, reversing the tweak from last march. I don't expect perfection from a coach, but I do expect for him to coach. Players are not allowed to take a play off or they go to the bench. He took the whole game off yesterday from my perspective. Simply unaccectable and hope it doesn't happen again.
 
Originally posted by Cawood86:
Cal will never play much zone, it's just not the way he likes to play and I don't like it either. However, today, they were getting killed by straight line drives. Maybe just try it a couple of possessions to see if it made a difference.
No one defense is best against ever team we play so my vote goes to the above post.
 
A team full of morons could play a decent zone. Most 2nd grade teams play zone don't they? Considering it kicks our are every game, you think you would see the benefits of using one. But oh well, I'll just wait for our guys to sort it out. Don't care how many losses just give me a title.
 
Originally posted by ZZBlueComet:

Cal's been to 3 Final Fours in 5 years here, he's 15-0 this year - here's a good idea, let's zone........wow.
This post was edited on 1/11 4:33 PM by ZZBlueComet
Thats really a moronic statement. It has nothing to do with some games working better with a zone. Maybe there would be another title or two if they had zoned. Cal has some of best talent but to blindly make a statement like a zone is never needed is being an idiot.

Soldiers use to fight wars by stand in long lines facing each other. Sure...there was some successes but one day a lightbulb went off and they said ...hmmmm, maybe there's a better way. Just because you have some success and have some wins doesn't mean nothing can be improved on.
 
Well I think he needs to practice zone so they can work on their zone offense, we become flat slow and stagnate against zones.
 
Originally posted by WildmanWilson:

Originally posted by ZZBlueComet:

Cal's been to 3 Final Fours in 5 years here, he's 15-0 this year - here's a good idea, let's zone........wow.

This post was edited on 1/11 4:33 PM by ZZBlueComet
Thats really a moronic statement. It has nothing to do with some games working better with a zone. Maybe there would be another title or two if they had zoned. Cal has some of best talent but to blindly make a statement like a zone is never needed is being an idiot.

Soldiers use to fight wars by stand in long lines facing each other. Sure...there was some successes but one day a lightbulb went off and they said ...hmmmm, maybe there's a better way. Just because you have some success and have some wins doesn't mean nothing can be improved on.
"Just because you have some success and have some wins"

And......you are serious???? LMFAO !!!!!!
 
ADVERTISEMENT