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Yeah. I'll say it... It's getting old.

I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I like the success. My point was, I miss watching a team progress versus renting players and starting 10 new Freshman ever year.

Watch them progress then!

If you'd pay attention and enjoy the ride you'd be seeing teams come together, grow, and improve to the point that almost every year we have a real shot whether you want to believe it or not.

No guarantees but better than a puncher's chance about any year. I'll not only take that but feel it is something worth fighting for as a matter of fact.

Plus, we have been blessed with a lot of great young men who give back to the school, the program, and community.

These guys as much as I can recall are loud and proud Wildcats, most always representing like heartfelt ambassadors. Guys are back summers working with the next group.

Add the modern information overload and we get to know about these kids than we ever did in the past.

I just wish I had more opportunity (time + money) to get to games in person more but that is on me not the program.

Our window is every year, if we come up short then we'll be back to take our next shot.
Four years packed into every season. Don't blink too often, be sure to smell the roses, and treasure the journeys.

All I can gather is people hate fun times, greater than historical success, and helping steer and impact a lot of young men. Seemingly at worse more above board than most anywhere within eyeshot with binoculars of the mix too.
 
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I don't like what college basketball has become either. The game just isn't as enjoyable as it was 15 or 20 years ago. The quality of the game is terrible because you either have veteran teams made up of sub-par talent, or you have talented teams composed of freshmen that haven't really learned how to play college basketball. The end result is, everyone sucks.

I really miss the days when elite talent stuck around for a couple years or more before bailing to the NBA. I honestly wish the NBA would adopt rules similar to what the NFL uses, requiring guys to hang around through their junior seasons. I don't hear anyone complaining about the NFL system preventing these kids from "achieving their dream". The dream is still there, they just have to wait a couple of extra years. And being more mature and wise, they probably benefit greatly from it. What good would a million dollars be an 18 year old anyway? That money would pass from their hand to someone else's faster than poop through a goose, but they just wouldn't have poop to show for it afterwards.

People may call my views selfish, but ultimately, I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. When it comes to basketball, it all begins and ends with the college game as far as I am concerned. I just don't care about the NBA. Never have, never will. I don't like it. I don't watch it. But the NBA's current policies are destroying the college game which I do love, therefore to me, the NBA has just become something I as a college basketball fan have grown to detest. If some change doesn't happen soon to reverse this situation, I'm gonna be spending about as much time watching college basketball as I do watching the NBA....which is to say, not at all. College basketball has turned into a dysfunctional circus.
 
I don't like what college basketball has become either. The game just isn't as enjoyable as it was 15 or 20 years ago. The quality of the game is terrible because you either have veteran teams made up of sub-par talent, or you have talented teams composed of freshmen that haven't really learned how to play college basketball. The end result is, everyone sucks.

I really miss the days when elite talent stuck around for a couple years or more before bailing to the NBA. I honestly wish the NBA would adopt rules similar to what the NFL uses, requiring guys to hang around through their junior seasons. I don't hear anyone complaining about the NFL system preventing these kids from "achieving their dream". The dream is still there, they just have to wait a couple of extra years. And being more mature and wise, they probably benefit greatly from it. What good would a million dollars be an 18 year old anyway? That money would pass from their hand to someone else's faster than poop through a goose, but they just wouldn't have poop to show for it afterwards.

People may call my views selfish, but ultimately, I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. When it comes to basketball, it all begins and ends with the college game as far as I am concerned. I just don't care about the NBA. Never have, never will. I don't like it. I don't watch it. But the NBA's current policies are destroying the college game which I do love, therefore to me, the NBA has just become something I as a college basketball fan have grown to detest. If some change doesn't happen soon to reverse this situation, I'm gonna be spending about as much time watching college basketball as I do watching the NBA....which is to say, not at all. College basketball has turned into a dysfunctional circus.

people love to remember the past how they want to remember of regardless of facts. revisionist history. 18 seasons ago UK had 1 SR on its team, saul smith who everyone hates. 2 juniors, prince and jp blevens who is irrelevant. that team lost 10 games and you can bank on it few found it enjoyable.
 
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UNC has not done better.
I get what you are saying and to some extent agree.I take exception with the part about their professional stock peaking,while that may be correct,if it is then people like Gabriel,PJ SKJ are choosing the wrong profession.Their careers are over before they ever get started.

Pretty big talk but when a guy like Humphries can land a year one of three quarters of a million how bad a career choice can it be?
Briscoe will easily out earn me next year at worst after twenty years and I had to payback loans for school.
 
Pretty big talk but when a guy like Humphries can land a year one of three quarters of a million how bad a career choice can it be?
Briscoe will easily out earn me next year at worst after twenty years and I had to payback loans for school.
Maybe you should've learned how to constantly step on the baseline.
 
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I don't like what college basketball has become either. The game just isn't as enjoyable as it was 15 or 20 years ago. The quality of the game is terrible because you either have veteran teams made up of sub-par talent, or you have talented teams composed of freshmen that haven't really learned how to play college basketball. The end result is, everyone sucks.

I really miss the days when elite talent stuck around for a couple years or more before bailing to the NBA. I honestly wish the NBA would adopt rules similar to what the NFL uses, requiring guys to hang around through their junior seasons. I don't hear anyone complaining about the NFL system preventing these kids from "achieving their dream". The dream is still there, they just have to wait a couple of extra years. And being more mature and wise, they probably benefit greatly from it. What good would a million dollars be an 18 year old anyway? That money would pass from their hand to someone else's faster than poop through a goose, but they just wouldn't have poop to show for it afterwards.

People may call my views selfish, but ultimately, I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. When it comes to basketball, it all begins and ends with the college game as far as I am concerned. I just don't care about the NBA. Never have, never will. I don't like it. I don't watch it. But the NBA's current policies are destroying the college game which I do love, therefore to me, the NBA has just become something I as a college basketball fan have grown to detest. If some change doesn't happen soon to reverse this situation, I'm gonna be spending about as much time watching college basketball as I do watching the NBA....which is to say, not at all. College basketball has turned into a dysfunctional circus.

My feelings exactly, UKfan215. I could care less about the NBA or these kids becoming millionaires. But I do care about UK basketball winning, as we all do. So until things change, I'll hope our OADs are good enough to win another championship. It would be nice if we could recruit some good players who are interested in playing college ball without bolting for the NBA after their only year here, but not sure Cal's system would allow that.
 
Again, my point was it's not just about the number of wins and banners.
I get exactly what you're saying and I agree with your sentiment. That said, "Players First" vs "Program First", what's your preference? Take care of the Program first and Everyone wins. "Players First" is flawed, IMO, and is not necessarily good for Everyone, nor the Program. You're not the first to express your concern nor will you be the last. Cal, nor anyone, can keep up this recruiting pace...it will send him to an earlier retirement. I believe there's some truth in that Cal is using his unique opportunity at UK to conduct OAD for purposes not publically confessed. If I had to guess, it has, in part, something to do with how he sees his collective body of work over his career and in making a difference in the lives of his players. While noble, that's not why he was hired at UK. Unfortunately, UK in this case is the guinea pig and for some the jury is still out but for others, the verdict has been rendered. Just my IMO.
 
I get exactly what you're saying and I agree with your sentiment. That said, "Players First" vs "Program First", what's your preference? Take care of the Program first and Everyone wins. "Players First" is flawed, IMO, and is not necessarily good for Everyone, nor the Program. You're not the first to express your concern nor will you be the last. Cal, nor anyone, can keep up this recruiting pace...it will send him to an earlier retirement. I believe there's some truth in that Cal is using his unique opportunity at UK to conduct OAD for purposes not publically confessed. If I had to guess, it has, in part, something to do with how he sees his collective body of work over his career and in making a difference in the lives of his players. While noble, that's not why he was hired at UK. Unfortunately, UK in this case is the guinea pig and for some the jury is still out but for others, the verdict has been rendered. Just my IMO.
Take care of the players first and the program and players win. Cal has a better record than any other coach at UK in the last 40 years. What do you want? No coach is going to win a title every year. Dean Smith was at North Carolina 36 years and won 2 titles with the best talent in college basketball.
 
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Is it too much to ask my coach being paid $8m a year to focus on banners for the school paying him?? Isn't that an honest question we're all asking?

Who do we pay and how much to get better results and if you're wrong what do we get? Or are you trying to cut payroll and are willing to downgrade success to save a buck?
 
Again, for the 100th time, if you like this brand of current UK basketball, you hopped on board during Cal.

No, not even slightly true. Just not a titty baby, malcontent throwing tantrums and sling poo at the wall to justify a misguided agenda of hobbling the program in order to manage my own disappointment like some.

Don't like what I said? Learn to speak for yourself. You're entitled to your own opinions but not to speak for life long fans like myself then you EARN pushback.
 
Maybe you should've learned how to constantly step on the baseline.

Petty. 6'2 guard turns out to be one of our more consistent inside threats but instead of any appreciation some prefer to bash steping out of bounds a few times.

I like Briscoe, I wish he was still on the team last season. One of our few triple double performers. Tough, hard working kid that took too much mess from our supportive "fans".
 
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Not complaining about Cal but it would be nice to have a 2 or 3 kids each yr that going to be 4 yrs player, even be nicer if they was Ky kids..
 
Uh, yea!!! We had loaded rosters under them, Sutton, Pitino and Smith at time, and still, all but Rupp have more than 1 title. Were you pleased under Hall, Sutton, Pitino, Smith?

It seems like every one of those coaches have won a title
I don't like what college basketball has become either. The game just isn't as enjoyable as it was 15 or 20 years ago. The quality of the game is terrible because you either have veteran teams made up of sub-par talent, or you have talented teams composed of freshmen that haven't really learned how to play college basketball. The end result is, everyone sucks.

I really miss the days when elite talent stuck around for a couple years or more before bailing to the NBA. I honestly wish the NBA would adopt rules similar to what the NFL uses, requiring guys to hang around through their junior seasons. I don't hear anyone complaining about the NFL system preventing these kids from "achieving their dream". The dream is still there, they just have to wait a couple of extra years. And being more mature and wise, they probably benefit greatly from it. What good would a million dollars be an 18 year old anyway? That money would pass from their hand to someone else's faster than poop through a goose, but they just wouldn't have poop to show for it afterwards.

People may call my views selfish, but ultimately, I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. When it comes to basketball, it all begins and ends with the college game as far as I am concerned. I just don't care about the NBA. Never have, never will. I don't like it. I don't watch it. But the NBA's current policies are destroying the college game which I do love, therefore to me, the NBA has just become something I as a college basketball fan have grown to detest. If some change doesn't happen soon to reverse this situation, I'm gonna be spending about as much time watching college basketball as I do watching the NBA....which is to say, not at all. College basketball has turned into a dysfunctional circus.

Refs are killing college basketball more than players are
 
Watch them progress then!

If you'd pay attention and enjoy the ride you'd be seeing teams come together, grow, and improve to the point that almost every year we have a real shot whether you want to believe it or not.

No guarantees but better than a puncher's chance about any year. I'll not only take that but feel it is something worth fighting for as a matter of fact.

Plus, we have been blessed with a lot of great young men who give back to the school, the program, and community.

These guys as much as I can recall are loud and proud Wildcats, most always representing like heartfelt ambassadors. Guys are back summers working with the next group.

Add the modern information overload and we get to know about these kids than we ever did in the past.

I just wish I had more opportunity (time + money) to get to games in person more but that is on me not the program.

Our window is every year, if we come up short then we'll be back to take our next shot.
Four years packed into every season. Don't blink too often, be sure to smell the roses, and treasure the journeys.

All I can gather is people hate fun times, greater than historical success, and helping steer and impact a lot of young men. Seemingly at worse more above board than most anywhere within eyeshot with binoculars of the mix too.
Very good post and you are 100% correct. I wish I could look at it the way you do, but I can't. I am old school and just simply miss watching the kids grow and mature, you learn their name and remember it for the rest of your life. Yes these guys grow and mature over a year, but imagine how much more they would grow and how much better they would be with 1 or 2 more years under their belt. Would that not be fun to see?

I remember back in the day when we would read about all those really good kids going to UNC, Indiana, UCLA,etc, and I wondered why do they get all the really good kids and we don't. Now we are getting them, but only for one year, so while I got my wish, it is only for a year, then it is wash, rinse, repeat. I guess many of us old salts just can't accept this is how it is done now. We still enjoy the success, but we miss the connections we use to have with the kids for 3/4 years.

many posters here that feel as you do have told us all year, that Cal had changed and was recruiting for guys to stay longer and this years team was proof of that, and most of this team would return. Well, that don't seem to be the case. We have 4 going pro,2 transfers (so far), I still expect Green to transfer. This team had zero future NBA stars on it and all needed at least another year, but here they all go, somewhere. This is the fatigue factor many of us talk about. I am happy for you all that enjoy this type of cycle every year. But after watching college basketball for 50 plus years, we will not win another Natty starting 5 freshmen every year, unless by chance we get another AD + MKG, then yes. As I have said many times on here, if it did not happen in 2015 with a team loaded with NBA type players, it won't happen with the types we get now for only one year.

We can't do it, Duke can't do it, Arizona can't do it, and all 3 are knee deep into the OAD. I was hoping to see us pass UCLA in Nattys before I died, and Cal promised all of us that was what he was going to do. Now I fear that UNCheats will pass us before I die, and that makes me want to throw up.
 
The only programs who got a national title with this method was us in 2012 and Duke in 2015 and both times it took more than freshmen- Duke had juniors and seniors on that team. We had two good sophs and a senior.

There’s enough evidence to suggest that all freshmen teams are not winning titles. It will not happen short of some miraculous phenoms.

Let’s just look at the last handful of champs since ours and examine their roster.

2014 UConn- Sr. Napier to go along with juniors DeAndre Daniels, Ryan Boatright, Niels Griffey.

2015 Duke- to go along with their three freshmen stars, they had a senior Quinn Cook who averaged 15, Jr. Amille Jefferson avg 6 and 6, Jr. Rasheed Sulaimon who averaged 7.5ppg.

2016 Nova- JR- Josh Hart, Kris Jenkins, SR- Arcidiacono, Ochefu, sophs- Phil Booth, Freshmen- Brunson, Bridges

2017 UNC- Their top four scorers were juniors and seniors. Only one freshman was in their rotation.

2018 Nova- JR- Brunson, Bridges, Paschall, Booth, Sophomore- DiVincenzo, Fresh (RS)- Spellman- That was their top six guys.

Look at these rosters and how they were made up and then tell me that our system is going to work to win a title with only young guys.
 
The only programs who got a national title with this method was us in 2012 and Duke in 2015 and both times it took more than freshmen- Duke had juniors and seniors on that team. We had two good sophs and a senior.

There’s enough evidence to suggest that all freshmen teams are not winning titles. It will not happen short of some miraculous phenoms.

Let’s just look at the last handful of champs since ours and examine their roster.

2014 UConn- Sr. Napier to go along with juniors DeAndre Daniels, Ryan Boatright, Niels Griffey.

2015 Duke- to go along with their three freshmen stars, they had a senior Quinn Cook who averaged 15, Jr. Amille Jefferson avg 6 and 6, Jr. Rasheed Sulaimon who averaged 7.5ppg.

2016 Nova- JR- Josh Hart, Kris Jenkins, SR- Arcidiacono, Ochefu, sophs- Phil Booth, Freshmen- Brunson, Bridges

2017 UNC- Their top four scorers were juniors and seniors. Only one freshman was in their rotation.

2018 Nova- JR- Brunson, Bridges, Paschall, Booth, Sophomore- DiVincenzo, Fresh (RS)- Spellman- That was their top six guys.

Look at these rosters and how they were made up and then tell me that our system is going to work to win a title with only young guys.
We won't unless we get another game changer like AD. Those only come around every so often. MJ, Alcindor, Magic, Bird,etc.
 
This isn't the Kentucky basketball I grew up with, and I'm kinda tired of this. Yes, Cal is a great coach. Yes, we've been to a few FFs and hung one banner. Yes, the recruiting is good for national attention. I'm not knocking Cal as a coach, at all. The wins are great... But I miss Kentucky TEAMS. I miss watching a team progress. I miss just knowing a kid will be back and his progress will make the team better. You can site some wins and a few FFs all you want, but I miss my TEAMS and tired of renting players for a couple months. Senior night used to be fun and special. Where'd that go? I don't know if it's Cal pushing or just kids these days, but I miss Kentucky teams. Cal, I'm a fan of UK basketball, not just making kids money. Selfish? Maybe, but I'm in it for the name on the front, not someone's bottom line. Sorry for the rant, now get off my lawn.
You say “this isn’t Kentucky basketball”. But this actually is. Times change bro. Your characterization of Calipari “renting players for a couple months” is not only false, but it also shows that you don’t understand the world around you. John Calipari didn’t make the rules. He is playing the hand he has been dealt. The NBA allows players to enter their draft under their rules. Those are NBA rules, not Calipari’s rules. Calipari is simply signing the best players he can sign. What they do once they are eligible for the draft is their decision, because this is still a free country. So here’s the alternative. Would you rather have Calipari stop signing the best players he can sign? If he did, what would your rant be then? My advice, support your state school and its coaches and players, be happy that we have the nation’s top college basketball program, and learn to adapt.
 
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You say “this isn’t Kentucky basketball”. But this actually is. Times change bro. Your characterization of Calipari “renting players for a couple months” is not only false, but it also shows that you don’t understand the world around you. John Calipari didn’t make the rules. He is playing the hand he has been dealt. The NBA allows players to enter their draft under their rules. Those are NBA rules, not Calipari’s rules. Calipari is simply signing the best players he can sign. What they do once they are eligible for the draft is their decision, because this is still a free country. So here’s the alternative. Would you rather have Calipari stop signing the best players he can sign? If he did, what would your rant be then? My advice, support your state school and its coaches and players, be happy that we have the nation’s top college basketball program, and learn to adapt.

Yet during this time, there have now been three different programs who have won two national championships while we're still sitting at one under Cal. Obviously there's another way to be successful outside of just signing five stars who may not mesh well with your system or with each other.
 
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The only programs who got a national title with this method was us in 2012 and Duke in 2015 and both times it took more than freshmen- Duke had juniors and seniors on that team. We had two good sophs and a senior.

There’s enough evidence to suggest that all freshmen teams are not winning titles. It will not happen short of some miraculous phenoms.

Let’s just look at the last handful of champs since ours and examine their roster.

2014 UConn- Sr. Napier to go along with juniors DeAndre Daniels, Ryan Boatright, Niels Griffey.

2015 Duke- to go along with their three freshmen stars, they had a senior Quinn Cook who averaged 15, Jr. Amille Jefferson avg 6 and 6, Jr. Rasheed Sulaimon who averaged 7.5ppg.

2016 Nova- JR- Josh Hart, Kris Jenkins, SR- Arcidiacono, Ochefu, sophs- Phil Booth, Freshmen- Brunson, Bridges

2017 UNC- Their top four scorers were juniors and seniors. Only one freshman was in their rotation.

2018 Nova- JR- Brunson, Bridges, Paschall, Booth, Sophomore- DiVincenzo, Fresh (RS)- Spellman- That was their top six guys.

Look at these rosters and how they were made up and then tell me that our system is going to work to win a title with only young guys.



Mr King has taken some shots from various posters on here but thats 5 years of facts . Yes the system has changed . And the evolution is happening fast , the problem is we seem to be evolving the opposite direction. We are getting them to leave quicker as opposed to staying around that 1 additional year . I expect Duke to struggle next year and us too . It will be a repeat of this year . We young , we learning , wait til March , it will all come together etc etc . If PJ , Jarod , Greene and WG stay we are OK . If something nuts happens to 1-2 of those we are weakened and the chance for # 9 slips further away .
 
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Yet during this time, there have now been three different programs who have won two national championships while we're still sitting at one under Cal. Obviously there's another way to be successful outside of just signing five stars who may not mesh well with your system or with each other.

2. The cheaters won in 2009 the year before Cal came to UK. Also, Duke's first title wasn't with OAD players, and they are learning it's not that easy. Villanova isn't doing it with OADs, so there really is no formula for winning titles.
 
I'm not really a fan of the higher player turnover, but I'm OK with us recruiting the best of the best. What I think we really need to take that next step to a championship with the best players is for something to change in the game strategy department. I know they're all young, but I'd like to see Cal do what he can to take advantage of mis-matches, adjust to things the other team is doing, give the appearance to trying to create at least a little opponent-specific strategy, utilize a set play more than a couple of times per season, etc. I'd be fine with him hiring an assistant to do those things if he's otherwise occupied.

And I'll even add playing the players who are playing the best more than he does.
 
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Mr King has taken some shots from various posters on here but thats 5 years of facts . Yes the system has changed . And the evolution is happening fast , the problem is we seem to be evolving the opposite direction. We are getting them to leave quicker as opposed to staying around that 1 additional year . I expect Duke to struggle next year and us too . It will be a repeat of this year . We young , we learning , wait til March , it will all come together etc etc . If PJ , Jarod , Greene and WG stay we are OK . If something nuts happens to 1-2 of those we are weakened and the chance for # 9 slips further away .
I think at this point a we need Gabriel and Washington to return most of all.If we could get a healthy Vanderbilt(meaning he could play a whole season) then he becomes important.It is sad to say but until Hagans ,or any other reclassification guy is here we can't count on them being here(I have that little faith in the NCAA and the way they treat UK as opposed to any other school(not even counting Duke) We have a chance to be pretty good but we also have a chance to be about what we were this year.

On the subject of this year,I think we were a team that the pieces did not ever all fit together,we played with missing parts all year.They were probably good kids but I don't believe they all came together as a team.Things really fell our way for us to get as far as we did and Cal did one of his better coaching jobs to hold things together.
 
Fair point about the sample size and the changing landscape, although I'm highly skeptical that a team filled with reclassified players and non-transcendent players is much better than a group of very solid junior/seniors who have actually learned a system together. We just saw what a team of 2nd tier, non-transcendent guys looks like. It looks like 26-11 with a decent uptick toward the end of the season, but a complete reversion to equilibrium when it mattered most.

Also, people are arguing "only freshmen or whatever people want to argue today" because that's what the apologists for the present direction are dictating as the only terms of realistic outlook.

Most of what I've seen from some, including you, the last few weeks, is an argument that presents how it's largely naïve to try to imagine guys like Gabriel/Washington/Green wanting to stay around the program when equally good talent is on the way. Thus, the "only freshmen" option is the one left by your own implications of what is possible at Kentucky.

It's an implication that some of you have settled in on. I'm merely meeting that narrative on the grounds of your choosing.

If I've misread your position, please let me know. Am I right in thinking that you're advocating for UK basically not being able to keep kids around for more than a year or two? If that's the case, doesn't that espouse the "only freshmen" criteria from your own basis of argument, since eliminating the choice of having rotation upperclassmen leaves UK's title hopes with but that one option, the freshmen and perhaps one or two sophomores option?

You're mixing the two points together.

In the current basketball landscape, the type of talent we have to recruit to be competitive every year and not just punt on 2-3 seasons is likely to leave after their freshmen or, occasionally, sophomore year. I don't think it's unique to Kentucky, although it's exacerbated here by the level at which we recruit.

I'm not saying I'm necessarily for that, just that each kid should go when he feels like he's reached his peak stock, and that this will oftentimes result in guys leaving we don't think "are ready" and teams of mostly freshmen and sophomores.

I believe a team with that composition can win a title, even if it hasn't been done by the ever-changing standard of what is "impossible." We've already won a title in a way these same people told us wasn't possible and it caused them to move the standard to what they're claiming now. And when a team of all freshmen and a couple sophomores win it, they'll change to a more specific, even more rare and less likely to ever actually occur hypothetical.
 
2. The cheaters won in 2009 the year before Cal came to UK. Also, Duke's first title wasn't with OAD players, and they are learning it's not that easy. Villanova isn't doing it with OADs, so there really is no formula for winning titles.

I was referring to UConn as the other team with multiple titles.
 
2. The cheaters won in 2009 the year before Cal came to UK. Also, Duke's first title wasn't with OAD players, and they are learning it's not that easy. Villanova isn't doing it with OADs, so there really is no formula for winning titles.
i am glad you mentioned Nova
they are the main reason we are seeing so many of these type of threads

do the people making these threads want us to be like Nova, a team that before this "lightning in a bottle" had went over 30 years in between championships

how would our fanbase feel going over 30 years in between championships?
i see people talk about how they want it to be like it was and watch players grow over a 4 year period
i bet that same group never felt that way watching our players grow from 1998-2012
 
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Very good post and you are 100% correct. I wish I could look at it the way you do, but I can't. I am old school and just simply miss watching the kids grow and mature, you learn their name and remember it for the rest of your life. Yes these guys grow and mature over a year, but imagine how much more they would grow and how much better they would be with 1 or 2 more years under their belt. Would that not be fun to see?

I remember back in the day when we would read about all those really good kids going to UNC, Indiana, UCLA,etc, and I wondered why do they get all the really good kids and we don't. Now we are getting them, but only for one year, so while I got my wish, it is only for a year, then it is wash, rinse, repeat. I guess many of us old salts just can't accept this is how it is done now. We still enjoy the success, but we miss the connections we use to have with the kids for 3/4 years.

many posters here that feel as you do have told us all year, that Cal had changed and was recruiting for guys to stay longer and this years team was proof of that, and most of this team would return. Well, that don't seem to be the case. We have 4 going pro,2 transfers (so far), I still expect Green to transfer. This team had zero future NBA stars on it and all needed at least another year, but here they all go, somewhere. This is the fatigue factor many of us talk about. I am happy for you all that enjoy this type of cycle every year. But after watching college basketball for 50 plus years, we will not win another Natty starting 5 freshmen every year, unless by chance we get another AD + MKG, then yes. As I have said many times on here, if it did not happen in 2015 with a team loaded with NBA type players, it won't happen with the types we get now for only one year.

We can't do it, Duke can't do it, Arizona can't do it, and all 3 are knee deep into the OAD. I was hoping to see us pass UCLA in Nattys before I died, and Cal promised all of us that was what he was going to do. Now I fear that UNCheats will pass us before I die, and that makes me want to throw up.
If you want the old days where players played 4 years go be a fan of EKU or Morehead State and see what chances you have to make a final four. The Old Days are gone. Live in the present and you will be much happier. I went to the SEC tourney this year and had a ball. I enjoyed seeing our players come together and play great basketball.
 
Not complaining about Cal but it would be nice to have a 2 or 3 kids each yr that going to be 4 yrs player, even be nicer if they was Ky kids..

13 scholarships available.

4x3 = 12 Operation Tubbyball if we're very, very, very lucky and that's just ignoring the Kentucky kids amendment.

4x2 = 8 = to the pack in the SEC and certainly power conferences in general. Are you trying to get out recruited by Alabama and UT?

I think some of you all just can't be happy if we aren't at least flirting with mediocrity or maybe y'all won't rest until we're the new Indiana and in time the San Francisco Dons if you can help it.
 
Hawkins showed up in last year's tournament, so there's that. Still, I'm arguing for something of a blend, with the system being obviously top-heavy with younger elite players (even the 2012 and 2015 clearly exhibited this blend).

In fact, there has never been a national champion in the history of the sport to have featured a team with all freshmen/sophomore rotation players.

Is that a tiny sample size of anecdotal evidence - the entire history of college basketball?

Yes, it actually is because the number of attempts is insignificant.

If a guy asks three girls on a date and they all say no it doesn't mean that no one can ever have a date. Other guys get dates so we can rule that out. Whew!

It doesn't even mean that guy can't get a date, it just means those three didn't work out.
Hell, old boy might try a different cologne or speak with a bit more confidence and convert one of those turn downs but regardless we know nothing based off the sample.
I guess there was a time where prevailing thought might be you were doomed if you started a true freshman until that became a joke.

Depending on how one wants to deploy the goalposts on the definitions (which seems to move a good bit to me) we might be talking like one attempt or something. Maybe up to like less than a handful by others and won one of those (all underclassmen starting 5).

How many such teams have even been in the tournament? Then you start talking contender material? Pretty low number.

Physics doesn't restrict it nor does logic so we are talking probability not possibility and it is a tall order to come up with any real numbers and that is exacerbated by the whole situation being a bit of a crap shoot anyway. The favorite seldom wins and never has overwhelming odds, the field is king.

I remember clear as a bell that Pitino's style "couldn't win it all" am called BS. Then it was impossible that Calipari could win depending on so much youth but we sure as hell did on both accounts.

It would be different if there weren't some reasonable goalposts being reached but that isn't the case here at all.
We have multiple Final Fours and even Championship game appearances now so this argument is just refusal to accept the idea that something is possible even when it hasn't happened yet.

I tend to believe this line of reasoning is way, way closer to superstition than any kind of science.

In an alternate universe I'll gladly take my chances with swapping out Freshman Big Cuz or KAT for Senior Jorts.

Give me the Freshman versions of Knox and MKG and I'll swap them right out for the Kentucky bred seniors Hawkins and Willis and will happily try my luck.

Put Fox on the 96 over probably my favorite player Epps and I'm not afraid history would be subverted. Gimmie Wall over my man Turner in 98 and maybe we don't even need to come back.

I don't even believe you guys think it is impossible as you put on at all but rather are largely engaging a coping mechanism so you don't have to deal with how difficult titles are to win no matter how you put teams together.
It is easier to find a whipping boy than deal with the bitter reality that even the best laid plans fail and even the best efforts come up short.

Sometimes even if you do everything right you still lose especially in one off scenarios, man. That's life.

You can't have the level of success we have been able to and say something is impossible or even particularly unlikely.
We are talking the stuff of bad bounces here not some fundamental flaws.

We are effectively averaging an Elite 8 on this run. Get too damn snooty about that and you are demanding a harsh lesson on the perfect being the enemy of the great.

Of course I'm not of the type of mind that is itching to swap places with Villanova and especially UCONN (I'm left to believe that group is truly batcrap crazy) or even UNC because I'm not going to see the most as important thing as the only important thing.

I'd rather get over disappointments and have consistent swings at the bat than to spend half or more of the seasons thinking about in two or three years if things work out that we're gonna be nice.
Usually to also come up short.

That's not even an argument. That is a reminder. There is no magic formula for this. You have lived it yourself but have become well fed and extra finicky in your diet.

All kinds of great coaches have had their day and then nothing ever again or trudge on forever before hitting. Guys have hit then years later strike again.

In the current environment where evaluating who is going to be both quality and present in three and four years is a complete crap shoot, especially the former.

It's really easy to talk about Joe Random 3 Star blowing up with the benefit of hindsight, go on about that is what is needed, and puff up about how Coach X can do so what's our malfunction it than it is to get everyone to forget all these scrubs they flamed out with with the same methods, evaluation, and development but then deservedly winning cures everything.
 
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