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Yeah. I'll say it... It's getting old.

I sympathize with the OP but in no way want to run Cal off. I've enjoyed that last nine years, While the statement in bold is some what true, its not for the teams that we really compete against. Duke, UNC, UCONN and now Nova have all done better. Hell If UL hadn't got caught with there hands in the pun-tang pot they would have done as well as UK
UNC has won one title since Cal has been at UK. They haven’t done better. You can’t argue UL because in fact they did cheat to get where they were at and it was vacated. UConn and Nova have not done better than UK unless your only criteria is titles. And if that is your argument, UK basketball has been a huge failure for 115 years.
 
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People can say otherwise, but I will never believe we’d be hearing this sentiment if Cal got every player in the Top 10 every year and we obliterated college basketball to the tune of 5+ championships since 2010.

Basically, what people are saying is we aren’t successful enough using this model. If we’re gonna lose, why not lose the old-fashioned way? I only point this out so we can be honest that the real priority is still winning, and we aren’t opposed to “renting players” in principle.
Pin this to the top of the board. In fact, make it a requirement that the post has to be read before you start a new thread.
 
I understand OP’s point even if I don’t agree with it.

What I don’t understand is all these “company men” telling him how he has a right to feel as a fan. He can decide as a fan what he likes and doesn’t like. No one gets to decide that for him but him.
 
@SemperFiCat....were women in combat roles when you were active duty?? See, they weren't when I was enlisted over 30 years ago. That being said, it was an evolution the military went through whether us old salts like it or not. CBB is going through its evolution. Not all of us are fans of it. We just have to ride this out and see where it goes. I sure miss the old Navy days myself, but those are just memories now.
 
This subject is one of the hottest topics on this board at this time. It’s becoming more prevalent every year. The OP’s entitled to speak his piece.... it’s his OPINION and this is an open forum. About half of all UK fans agree with him (I do too) but half of the fan base always jump poster’s asses because they’re good with the way things are. No one’s going to win this debate because neither side is going to budge. I enjoy reading these threads most of the time but it’s getting worse every year. I sure hope the NCAA changes some of the rules. The sooner the better.
 
If they can make several hundred thousand dollars per year to play basketball somewhere at 19 years old, I think they're in the right profession.

It's really, really hard to be an NBA player. Virtually no one makes it. Even fewer are starters. Then like ten guys alive at any given time are superstars. You could let players stay 20 years in college and they wouldn't be NBA starters.

I think when a guy feels like he is what he is as far as draft stock, it's time to go make the best of it. If that's pick 25, fine. If that's pick 45, like a guy like Ulis, fine. At some point you're going to have to prove yourself, and the longer you wait, the more you usually get exposed if you're just not very good.

Fans view a guy like Marquis Teague or Archie Goodwin as a bust, but they made 4-5 million dollars before they turned 24 and can go back to school at any time.
Points well taken,I get strike while the iron is hot but maybe not all the current players are at that point at the same time.
 
I hope someone or something takes away something you guys love ............. and then everyone tells you to shut the eff up and stop complaining about you missing it.

People jumping all over the OP for missing UK teams that operate like the other 99.9% of college basketball teams are just being massive a holes.

I keep reading that its college basketball now and NO NO NO... show me another program where they only return 3-4 players each year
 
This subject is one of the hottest topics on this board at this time. It’s becoming more prevalent every year. The OP’s entitled to speak his piece.... it’s his OPINION and this is an open forum. About half of all UK fans agree with him (I do too) but half of the fan base always jump poster’s asses because they’re good with the way things are. No one’s going to win this debate because neither side is going to budge. I enjoy reading these threads most of the time but it’s getting worse every year. I sure hope the NCAA changes some of the rules. The sooner the better.
These are actually the type of threads I enjoy. Not the UL posers shoveling troll posts. These are actual UK fans discussing the nature of college basketball as it stands today.
 
I hear ya, but don't tell me, as a UK fan, you didn't enjoy a kid like Darius Miller more than a kid like Monk.
latest
 
OADitis is becoming more and more common. I have never been a fan of entire classes of OADs as their is too much turnover. The "Love it or leave it" fans will come after anyone complaining like Bryan Mills (LIam Neeson) in "Taken" but fans have a right, IMO, to respectfully voice displeasure. That is what sites like this are for.

Looking at the last 9 years, a few things should be noted.
1. Coach Cal successfully created this OAD genre and turned the program into a winner immediately. He was so successful, Coach K copied it (using his pull from running USA Basketball).
2. The job of turning a new team of Freshmen into winners every year is much more difficult than when players stay 3-4 years. Coach Cal has done an amazing job.
3. Those who say that we can only win with this model are vastly underrating Coach Cal's coaching skills. He was successful at UMass and Memphis (neither historically great programs) and would be more successful here if players stayed for more than a year.
4. I would argue that without the OAD era, Coach Cal would have at least 2 National Championships here because recruiting would still be great and the players in the system for 2 years would be even better.
5. Finally, I hope the rule changes because I don't feel the same connection to players I once did for same reason that I don't have the same connection to my professional teams. There is so much turnover that you never really get to know those players and watch them improve.
 
@SemperFiCat....were women in combat roles when you were active duty?? See, they weren't when I was enlisted over 30 years ago. That being said, it was an evolution the military went through whether us old salts like it or not. CBB is going through its evolution. Not all of us are fans of it. We just have to ride this out and see where it goes. I sure miss the old Navy days myself, but those are just memories now.
Thx for your service! But that's apples and oranges. I big part of the fanbase believes we need a foundation and not just a one shot deal every year.
 
I love Cal. I've been consistent in that. But one banner. Again, my original point was, I miss guys sticking around, and am growing tired of guys leaving just because and starting over every year. Don't tell me you're not getting tired if it too
I don’t think we are starting over next year. In fact, I’m more excited about next year than I have been in a while. I can’t control who stays or leaves. I can’t control who is on the roster. But I do know teams like Virginia, Michigan State and UNC fail just as much or more with their veteran rosters who stay multiple years. And before you mention Nova, Wright would have been fired at UK after his 13-19 season and never made it to 2016.
 
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Points well taken,I get strike while the iron is hot but maybe not all the current players are at that point at the same time.

Definitely not. I'm not saying some of these kids don't make bad decisions.

I'm just saying there's a lot of kids who realize that just because you were a McDonald's AA doesn't mean you're a lottery pick, and that they'll never get taller or faster or more explosive or longer, and that there's a cap on where they'll be drafted, no matter how good they are.

It looks like we're seeing those kids take their freshman year as a learning experience, chalk it up to being young and new, getting feedback from the NBA, and then taking wherever they stand as a sophomore and deciding to roll the dice.
 
I hope someone or something takes away something you guys love ............. and then everyone tells you to shut the eff up and stop complaining about you missing it.

People jumping all over the OP for missing UK teams that operate like the other 99.9% of college basketball teams are just being massive a holes.

I keep reading that its college basketball now and NO NO NO... show me another program where they only return 3-4 players each year

Show me another program with more overall success in the last decade.

You can have what those programs have. But you can't have it and have what we have too. Not consistently.
 
Show me another program with more overall success in the last decade.

You can have what those programs have. But you can't have it and have what we have too. Not consistently.
My argument, is why can't we have foundation AND super Freshmen talent? And why can't we keep a guy more than a year or two? I'm just echoing the frustration of a lot of BBN.
 
Definitely not. I'm not saying some of these kids don't make bad decisions.

I'm just saying there's a lot of kids who realize that just because you were a McDonald's AA doesn't mean you're a lottery pick, and that they'll never get taller or faster or more explosive or longer, and that there's a cap on where they'll be drafted, no matter how good they are.

It looks like we're seeing those kids take their freshman year as a learning experience, chalk it up to being young and new, getting feedback from the NBA, and then taking wherever they stand as a sophomore and deciding to roll the dice.

I'll just add that Cal's pitch to these kids is making them even more antsy to start making money from basketball. It has even gotten to the point that the ones that aren't assured of being drafted by the NBA, are willing to go overseas or transfer out to another program and start over.

The perception of Cal's UK program has become a hindrance to retaining players. Does Cal want to change that perception?

With the players we have coming in this year, are some willing to stay and develop if they don't get assurances of being 1st round picks?

Until Cal recruits kids that WANT to reach the their potential AT UK, we will continue to see them leave.
 
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My argument, is why can't we have foundation AND super Freshmen talent? And why can't we keep a guy more than a year or two? I'm just echoing the frustration of a lot of BBN.

Because no one good enough to be a foundation for anything that wins is going to come here and wait 3-4 years to start.

Look what happens to guys like SKJ that are foundation pieces when Cal keeps recruiting the other half of what you want. They leave.

So you either stop recruiting and hope the SKJ's of the world develop and win you a title in your one shot every four years, or you grab as many great players as you can, hope a few stick around, hope you stay healthy, and make a run at it every year.

Think of the time it would take to build the foundation you're talking about. We'd have to be awful for a couple seasons because we wouldn't be recruiting over the less talented players. Then you have to hope they don't leave or go pro even still.

Then you have to find super freshmen who are willing to come in and play with 8-9 returning rotation guys. Probably not going to be the elite guys.

So in a perfect storm, you get one roster like that every 4-5 years. What if it doesn't win? What if someone gets hurt? Transfers? Arrested? How much longer do you think Cal will be here? It's risky.
 
I'll just add that Cal's pitch to these kids is making them even more antsy to start making money from basketball. It has even gotten to the point that the ones that aren't assured of being drafted by the NBA, are willing to go overseas or transfer out to another program and start over.

The perception of Cal's UK program has become a hindrance to retaining players. Does Cal want to change that perception?

With the players we have coming in this year, are some willing to stay and develop if they don't get assurances of being 1st round picks?

Until Cal recruits kids that WANT to reach the their potential AT UK, we will continue to see them leave.

But how good are the kids who want to reach their potential at UK? Anthony Davis didn't. Karl Towns didn't. Great players don't reach their potential in college.
 
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This isn't the Kentucky basketball I grew up with, and I'm kinda tired of this. Yes, Cal is a great coach. Yes, we've been to a few FFs and hung one banner. Yes, the recruiting is good for national attention. I'm not knocking Cal as a coach, at all. The wins are great... But I miss Kentucky TEAMS. I miss watching a team progress. I miss just knowing a kid will be back and his progress will make the team better. You can site some wins and a few FFs all you want, but I miss my TEAMS and tired of renting players for a couple months. Senior night used to be fun and special. Where'd that go? I don't know if it's Cal pushing or just kids these days, but I miss Kentucky teams. Cal, I'm a fan of UK basketball, not just making kids money. Selfish? Maybe, but I'm in it for the name on the front, not someone's bottom line. Sorry for the rant, now get off my lawn.


I'm with you and I don't understand why so many folks have a problem with this view. I truly miss watching teams build year after and watching guys like PJ build their skills.
 
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But how good are the kids who want to reach their potential at UK? Anthony Davis didn't. Karl Towns didn't. Great players don't reach their potential in college.

It's NOT the "great players" that most fans are concerned about, it's the ones that aren't assured of going in the 1st round. Those are the kids that have UK fans frustrated.

My post was pertaining to the players that leave to go to the G-League, overseas or transfer to another school.

Does Cal want Seniors?
 
Because no one good enough to be a foundation for anything that wins is going to come here and wait 3-4 years to start.

Look what happens to guys like SKJ that are foundation pieces when Cal keeps recruiting the other half of what you want. They leave.

So you either stop recruiting and hope the SKJ's of the world develop and win you a title in your one shot every four years, or you grab as many great players as you can, hope a few stick around, hope you stay healthy, and make a run at it every year.

Think of the time it would take to build the foundation you're talking about. We'd have to be awful for a couple seasons because we wouldn't be recruiting over the less talented players. Then you have to hope they don't leave or go pro even still.

Then you have to find super freshmen who are willing to come in and play with 8-9 returning rotation guys. Probably not going to be the elite guys.

So in a perfect storm, you get one roster like that every 4-5 years. What if it doesn't win? What if someone gets hurt? Transfers? Arrested? How much longer do you think Cal will be here? It's risky.
Sadly, as a UK fan, you're exactly right.
 
Is it too much to ask my coach being paid $8m a year to focus on banners for the school paying him?? Isn't that an honest question we're all asking?
Nope. Not at all. And Cal has done that. He brings in the best talent he can to get that accomplished. Kids today don’t think like players back in the 1990s or even 15 years ago. If you want to get top talent, it’s not about Kentucky. Its not about Duke. It’s not about Michigan State. It’s about them. Now obviously playing at Kentucky with its rabid fanbase, national exposure and ability to win a title is certainly attractive. But that is only one part of the equation.
 
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I miss the times when fans truly cheered on their teams instead of griping and complaining all the time. We've had as good a run as any team in College basketball the last 9 years. Be a fan or cheer for someone else.

I've been watching UK for nearly 50 years (bad as that hurts to type) and I am very confused when a time without contstant griping and complaining occurred. Maybe directly after the handful of times we've been in a Final Four or won a National Championship. Other than that....
 
I love Cal, but love UK basketball more. I want a coach focused on the success of the UK basketball program and hanging banners, not getting a 19 year old a contract wherever it may be. I don't believe Cal is pushing kids out, but there's obviously a culture that most UK fans aren't happy with.
 
UNC has won one title since Cal has been at UK. They haven’t done better. You can’t argue UL because in fact they did cheat to get where they were at and it was vacated. UConn and Nova have not done better than UK unless your only criteria is titles. And if that is your argument, UK basketball has been a huge failure for 115 years.
I simply don't agree with the 8 in 115 years argument. The talent level here is unprecedented over a decade span since the end of UCLA''s run. One could reasonably expect more than 1 title over a decade with that talent. I mean, Cal is building these teams the way he wants.
 
Just pointing out ridiculous expectations from people who think we need to win every year.
Most of us don't have ridiculous expectations such as NCAA titles every year.In the case of this year many said getting to the second week-end would be a good year,then all of a sudden we were on the yellow brick road to the Final Four and the wicked witch was already dead but we couldn't stay on the road.As things played out was that an unreasonable expectation? This group wasn't able to take advantage of what was gift wrapped for them yet 80% of them bolt for the NBA or parts unknown.Who is more realistic the fans or the players?
 
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I simply don't agree with the 8 in 115 years argument. The talent level here is unprecedented over a decade span since the end of UCLA''s run. One could reasonably expect more than 1 title over a decade with that talent. I mean, Cal is building these teams the way he wants.
"Unprecedented" = one banner, and starting over every year.
 
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This isn't the Kentucky basketball I grew up with, and I'm kinda tired of this. Yes, Cal is a great coach. Yes, we've been to a few FFs and hung one banner. Yes, the recruiting is good for national attention. I'm not knocking Cal as a coach, at all. The wins are great... But I miss Kentucky TEAMS. I miss watching a team progress. I miss just knowing a kid will be back and his progress will make the team better. You can site some wins and a few FFs all you want, but I miss my TEAMS and tired of renting players for a couple months. Senior night used to be fun and special. Where'd that go? I don't know if it's Cal pushing or just kids these days, but I miss Kentucky teams. Cal, I'm a fan of UK basketball, not just making kids money. Selfish? Maybe, but I'm in it for the name on the front, not someone's bottom line. Sorry for the rant, now get off my lawn.
Respect your thoughts, but I'll take this over BCG and Tubby any day.
However, Cal shares a common denominator with these guys . It"s called their system. Tubby's blind spot was poor recruiter, grind it out style and a refusal to take ownership of his faults .He would never have said " this is on me".
BCG was just an arrogant jerk who never should have been here period.
Cal takes responsibility for his losses which I respect him for doing
I think he knows some things have to change, but knee jerk reactions on his part will only worsen the problem.
I believe he's processing things and will redo the Roman Empire as he, not we, think he should. JMO
 
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