Win Shares- Cal PG's

[HagginHall1999]

Win Shares at UK for starting PG's under Cal.

I have been a big proponent of Wheeler over the past year but this is really eye opening to me. I know he has his faults but didn't expect him to be this low.

Shout out to @cornbreadnmilk for prompting me to look into this a bit further.

No clue if there is fuel to the fire about UK looking at another PG, but this could be the reason why.

I still like Wheeler but maybe he is better suited as a boost off the bench. Anyway, food for thought.

1. Ulis- 7.1 (4.2 as a backup '15)
2. John Wall- 6.3
3. Brandon Knight- 5.3
4. SGA- 5.2
5. Fox- 5.1
6. Harrison (2)- 5.1
7. Marquis Teague- 3.5
8. Harrison (1)- 3.2
9. Hagans (2)- 3.2
10. Hagans (1)- 3.1
11. Wheeler- 2.8
12. Ryan Harrow- 2.1
13. Askew- 1.0

Sahvir Wheeler College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Sahvir Wheeler - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

 

[azurricat2010]

If only Ulis was a few inches taller he'd be an all NBA player

Fun few years watching him play.

 

[HagginHall1999]

If only Ulis was a few inches taller he'd be an all NBA player

Fun few years watching him play.

Yeah man...it is hard to argue we've had a better backcourt than Ulis/Murray. Really only Fox/Monk combo is comparable.

I've always thought the '16 team was a guy away (Skal) from a FF or Title. That IU team was a terrible matchup for us.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Speaking win shares. AD was 9.9. Lol...crazy

 

[Sparkaces1]

Yeah man...it is hard to argue we've had a better backcourt than Ulis/Murray. Really only Fox/Monk combo is comparable.

I've always thought the '16 team was a guy away (Skal) from a FF or Title. That IU team was a terrible matchup for us.

For sure!

 

[HagginHall1999]

Oscar was 8.0 last year which I think was second in Cal era for all players...

 

[bbncal02]

Yeah man...it is hard to argue we've had a better backcourt than Ulis/Murray. Really only Fox/Monk combo is comparable.

I've always thought the '16 team was a guy away (Skal) from a FF or Title. That IU team was a terrible matchup for us.

Didn’t help Murray fell to the March Curse. He went ice cold that game.

 

[dlh331]

Where did you all get these numbers?

Thanks

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

Yeah man...it is hard to argue we've had a better backcourt than Ulis/Murray. Really only Fox/Monk combo is comparable.

I've always thought the '16 team was a guy away (Skal) from a FF or Title. That IU team was a terrible matchup for us.

You forget Knight/Lamb? That’d be my vote. Wall/Bledsoe would be up there if one of them could shoot the 3.

Debatable to say those two are incomparable when they didn’t make a FF.

 

[crawfords corner]

Where did you all get these numbers?

Thanks

Tyler Ulis College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Tyler Ulis - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

John Wall College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

John Wall - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Brandon Knight College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Brandon Knight - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

De'Aaron Fox College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

De'Aaron Fox - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andrew-harrison-1.html .... near bottom of page

Marquis Teague College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Marquis Teague - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

 

[cats#1again]

If only Ulis was a few inches taller he'd be an all NBA player

Fun few years watching him play.

No he wouldn't.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

If only Ulis was a few inches taller he'd be an all NBA player

Fun few years watching him play.

All things considered, I hear he’s a dick outside of basketball. Maybe could’ve stuck around with the suns with booker sans the attitude

 

[cats#1again]

You forget Knight/Lamb? That’d be my vote. Wall/Bledsoe would be up there if one of them could shoot the 3.

Debatable to say those two are incomparable when they didn’t make a FF.

The Harrison twins were the best backcourt we had that didn't leave after 1 season. Played in 11 tournament games in 2 seasons winning 9 of them.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

The Harrison twins were the best backcourt we had that didn't leave after 1 season. Played in 11 tournament games in 2 seasons winning 9 of them.

You mean our only backcourt that didn’t leave after one season. LMAO

 

[bbncal02]

All things considered, I hear he’s a dick outside of basketball. Maybe could’ve stuck around with the suns with booker sans the attitude

Napoleon syndrome. Ulis could back it up though.

Seems like we’ve got a couple of former UK guys that are beloved that are really kind of jerks.

 

[Wildcats1st]

Yeah man...it is hard to argue we've had a better backcourt than Ulis/Murray. Really only Fox/Monk combo is comparable.

I've always thought the '16 team was a guy away (Skal) from a FF or Title. That IU team was a terrible matchup for us.

Ulis-Booker FT woulda been pretty stinkin high up there

 

[cats#1again]

You mean our only backcourt that didn’t leave after one season. LMAO

Ulis 2 seasons, lamb ,

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

Napoleon syndrome. Ulis could back it up though.

Seems like we’ve got a couple of former UK guys that are beloved that are really kind of jerks.

The “jerks” usually back it up aka rondo, cousins, etc. the worst bust of the Cali era is Orton but did had no knees. My buddy lamb destroyed a hotel room but uh I was there for that one and it wasn’t all his fault. My man also a sniper.

 

[StormCruzzer]

No he wouldn't.

It’s okay to be wrong

 

[HagginHall1999]

All things considered, I hear he’s a dick outside of basketball. Maybe could’ve stuck around with the suns with booker sans the attitude

Surprising. Some of the most beloved Cats ever aren't the nicest of guys off the court I guess.

Chuck is no gem either. Stories I would not share.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Ulis 2 seasons, lamb ,

Yeah, but that’s only half a backcourt. The twins are the only two, full backcourt running mates to return for more than one season together. That’s incredible and not in a good way.

 

[HagginHall1999]

You forget Knight/Lamb? That’d be my vote. Wall/Bledsoe would be up there if one of them could shoot the 3.

Debatable to say those two are incomparable when they didn’t make a FF.

Just basing it on win shares. But yes I totally forgot Knight/Lamb. Honestly I always forget Lamb on that team. No idea why but only think of Knight, Jorts, Liggins...

Team achievement certainly should count for something, no doubt. Ulis was SEC POY though and Murray averaged 20ppg, 41%, 100+ 3's. I have always felt '11 team caught lightning in a bottle in tourney though.

Ulis/Murray= 13.2
Fox/Monk= 10.9
Knight/Lamb= 10.0
Wall/Bledsoe= 9.8

 

[jmw23712]

Surprising. Some of the most beloved Cats ever aren't the nicest of guys off the court I guess.

Chuck is no gem either. Stories I would not share.

Wow really? I figured Ulis and Hayes would have been 2 of the nicest guys. That said I figured WCS would be too and he’s one of the biggest a-holes I’ve ever met.

Shockingly Terrence Jones was super cool and nice to everyone the times I saw him out. For some reason I always assumed he’d be a selfish mother fer haha

 

[Boyd94]

The Harrison twins were the best backcourt we had that didn't leave after 1 season. Played in 11 tournament games in 2 seasons winning 9 of them.

Lost the two most important ones though.

 

[STL_Cat]

You forget Knight/Lamb? That’d be my vote. .

You're voting for Knight and Lamb as your best backcourt? Lamb didn't even start on the Brandon Knight team. Heck of a player off the bench but you're thinking about sophomore Lamb alongside freshman Knight.

 

[STL_Cat]

Just basing it on win shares. But yes I totally forgot Knight/Lamb. Honestly I always forget Lamb on that team. No idea why but only think of Knight, Jorts, Liggins...

Yep. You forget about Lamb because he wasn't a starter on that team. He and Knight were never a starting backcourt together.

 

[Oboro3]

The win share metric according to that site weighs scoring more heavily than assists which is why you see the ones who scored more points than the ones who didn't score as much. The ones listed higher were called to be one of their teams primary scorer. Wheeler was probably the 4th option.

 

[JonathanW]

That is right about where I would have ranked them, with Wheeler being in the Andrew & Hagans neighborhood.

 

[fatguy87]

Yep. You forget about Lamb because he wasn't a starter on that team. He and Knight were never a starting backcourt together.

Lamb started 14 games that season.

He wasn't the starter during the NCAA Tournament run, however.

 

[STL_Cat]

Lamb started 14 games that season.

He wasn't the starter during the NCAA Tournament run, however.

Fair correction. Never was the wrong word to use then. He wasn't a regular starter, how about that. Certainly not enough to rank a Knight-Lamb backcourt ahead of Ulis-Murray or Fox-Monk.

 

[fatguy87]

Yeah man...it is hard to argue we've had a better backcourt than Ulis/Murray. Really only Fox/Monk combo is comparable.

I've always thought the '16 team was a guy away (Skal) from a FF or Title. That IU team was a terrible matchup for us.

They were good enough to win it all that year. Having a 5th player to go along with Murray, Ulis, Willis, and Poythress to shore up the defense would have made that team the top contender that season.

 

[bbncal02]

The “jerks” usually back it up aka rondo, cousins, etc. the worst bust of the Cali era is Orton but did had no knees. My buddy lamb destroyed a hotel room but uh I was there for that one and it wasn’t all his fault. My man also a sniper.

I mean it’s cool to be able to back it up when you’re playing. But like Ford now is just a jerk to everyone it seems and has no real reason to be.

I just think society in general is tired of jerks and bullies.

 

[gojvc]

Win Shares at UK for starting PG's under Cal.

I have been a big proponent of Wheeler over the past year but this is really eye opening to me. I know he has his faults but didn't expect him to be this low.

Shout out to @cornbreadnmilk for prompting me to look into this a bit further.

No clue if there is fuel to the fire about UK looking at another PG, but this could be the reason why.

I still like Wheeler but maybe he is better suited as a boost off the bench. Anyway, food for thought.

1. Ulis- 7.1 (4.2 as a backup '15)
2. John Wall- 6.3
3. Brandon Knight- 5.3
4. SGA- 5.2
5. Fox- 5.1
6. Harrison (2)- 5.1
7. Marquis Teague- 3.5
8. Harrison (1)- 3.2
9. Hagans (2)- 3.2
10. Hagans (1)- 3.1
11. Wheeler- 2.8
12. Ryan Harrow- 2.1
13. Askew- 1.0

Sahvir Wheeler College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Sahvir Wheeler - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more

www.sports-reference.com

While he certainly doesn’t fit the profile of my dream point guard, we can win with Wheeler at the point. If fact, we were winning with him until the injuries and the the subsequent disappearance of Kellan Grady (which we now have an explanation for).

 

[HagginHall1999]

Yep. You forget about Lamb because he wasn't a starter on that team. He and Knight were never a starting backcourt together.

Yep, 14 total starts FR year.

 

[G-PIP]

I mean it’s cool to be able to back it up when you’re playing. But like Ford now is just a jerk to everyone it seems and has no real reason to be.

I just think society in general is tired of jerks and bullies.

I think it’s best to try to separate the player from the person. Otherwise, you’re kind of fooling yourself and misrepresenting to some degree how good they were/are as a player or person. But that’s easier said than done. All of us as fans (of anything) probably have a hard time with that on occasion, and find ourselves defending the object of admiration way, way past anything we would be ok with from someone else. Just human nature. You see it in sports (from high school fields and gymnasiums to the professional ranks), music, politics, etc. I guess that’s what’s behind the saying: Never meet your heroes. BUT sometimes (maybe more than sometimes even) someone like an Oscar Tsheibwe comes along that might hold up as a great example to aspire to in both regards (I say might because, of course, a fan only gets a little glimpse of the player).

 

[bbncal02]

I think it’s best to try to separate the player from the person. Otherwise, you’re kind of fooling yourself and misrepresenting to some degree how good they were/are as a player or person. But that’s easier said than done. All of us as fans (of anything) probably have a hard time with that on occasion, and find ourselves defending the object of admiration way, way past anything we would be ok with from someone else. Just human nature. You see it in sports (from high school fields and gymnasiums to the professional ranks), music, politics, etc. I guess that’s what’s behind the saying: Never meet your heroes. BUT sometimes (maybe more than sometimes even) someone like an Oscar Tsheibwe comes along that might hold up as a great example to aspire to in both regards (I say might because, of course, a fan only gets a little glimpse of the player).

I would be crushed if Oscar was anything else than who we see. That would hurt.
It’s just nice to know that some people are who they appear to be. And that not everyone is a cynical ahole.

Atter losing my parents I felt myself becoming one to be sure. Just hard when you lose genuine people and the next person you deal with is Major Richard from the Corps of Aholes.

Tgats why Oscar has been so refreshing both as a player and a person. When he stopped from dunking in that run out I knew he was genuine.

Yeah Ford was my first, “Oh people are different from they present moment”. He was just a arrogant dude even when he played.

 

[G-PIP]

I would be crushed if Oscar was anything else than who we see. That would hurt.
It’s just nice to know that some people are who they appear to be. And that not everyone is a cynical ahole.

Atter losing my parents I felt myself becoming one to be sure. Just hard when you lose genuine people and the next person you deal with is Major Richard from the Corps of Aholes.

Tgats why Oscar has been so refreshing both as a player and a person. When he stopped from dunking in that run out I knew he was genuine.

Yeah Ford was my first, “Oh people are different from they present moment”. He was just a arrogant dude even when he played.

I have never met Ford, but you're certainly not the first person posting on here who made that observation.

 

[bbncal02]

I have never met Ford, but you're certainly not the first person posting on here who made that observation.

I met him as a player when Rick did those little in state tours with the seniors. Got this autograph and it just seemed like it was a pain for him to sign something. Me being younger didn’t think much of it then (maybe a crap day you know?)’, but looking back in it now? Yeah…..

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

You're voting for Knight and Lamb as your best backcourt? Lamb didn't even start on the Brandon Knight team. Heck of a player off the bench but you're thinking about sophomore Lamb alongside freshman Knight.

I thought Lamb started against OSU? Been a while but I recall Liggins/Miller/Lamb sharing a lot of minutes, Lamb may have averaged 6th in minutes but I didn’t think of him as a bench guy.

Calipari didn’t seem quite as worried about starting spots and protecting kids’ hearts back then. Helped to have Miller and Liggins as pretty selfless 3 year guys.

 

[WhosInTheHouseTonightUK]

Lamb started in the NCAA tournament in 2011, three games. Liggins didn’t start until the UNC game.