Williamson and Wiseman

[BigKari]

First of all I want to say, I'm disgusted by all the Duke threads on this board. People acting like Krybaby has surpassed Cal in recruiting. Give me a break. Yeah they got Bagley and Barrett...so what?? we just cant get every single guy. Look at the class Cal just brought in. Knox, Vanderbilt and Diallo are all lotto picks. Richards could be too based on potnetial, but has a long way to go. Washington may not go lotto because of his height, but his strength makes up for it in the college game so far. Looks like a 1st round pick though. Incredible class. SGA trending upwards too, could sneak into the 1st round if his shot starts falling consistently.

Looking forward it looks like a very good chance we get Williamson (arguably #1 in 18 class) and we lead for Wiseman in the '19 class who is the consensus #1. If we do end up landing these two guys in back to back classes...what more can you ask for? I know its not a done deal yet but this "has Cal lost his touch?" bullshit is so ridiculous. And I wont forget to mention he has already landed 2 top 15 guys for the '18 class.

 

[bigc45157]

Just need to get them.

Idt Zion is locked up, yet.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Said it dozens of times on here ...I don't understand some folks' obsession with Duke. It makes the entire BBN look petty.

 

[Wildcats1st]

You don’t like the duke threads so you start another one???

 

[SemperFiCat]

You don’t like the duke threads so you start another one???

His post was about recruiting. Just referenced Duke.

 

[Wildcats1st]

His post was about recruiting. Just referenced Duke.

We should have a moritorium on any duke reference for 1 month

 

[BigKari]

You don’t like the duke threads so you start another one???

What??? Did you even read my post, or are you just that stupid?

 

[K_TIME]

First of all I want to say, I'm disgusted by all the Duke threads on this board. People acting like Krybaby has surpassed Cal in recruiting. Give me a break. Yeah they got Bagley and Barrett...so what??s.

And Reddish, Tatum, Giles, Bolden, etc...

But I'm cool with Cal's recruiting. He'll still get some great kids but maybe not elite level kids like he once did. The bigger adjustment I'm concerned in Cal not making is we need to get some of the lower level kids to stay in college more than 1 year and I'm not sure that is Cal's ideology (but it needs to be).

 

[Untouchables22]

K has passed Cal in recruiting....it's arguable and very close but I would give K the edge. He signed #1 player this year. He signed the number #1 guy next year. And if you look at the aggregate of all the head to head battles over the last eight years K has won more then Cal.

 

[BigKari]

And Reddish, Tatum, Giles, Bolden, etc...

But I'm cool with Cal's recruiting. He'll still get some great kids but maybe not elite level kids like he once did. The bigger adjustment I'm concerned in Cal not making is we need to get some of the lower level kids to stay in college more than 1 year and I'm not sure that is Cal's ideology (but it needs to be).

Dude Zion Williamson and James Wiseman ARE elite level guys. Kevin Knox may not look like it right now, but he's an elite level guy. I have high hopes for Vanderbilt too, he has a chance to be at that level. De'Aaron Fox and Malik Monk were elite guards for us. Jamal Murray too. Again it's complete bullshit this idea that's been thrown around a lot lately that Cal "cant get the elite guys anymore". It's downright foolish really, and also proven to be untrue.

 

[BlueArrow87]

Fox and Monk were better than half the duke players you mentioned k time lord your awful. maybe better than all but one player even.

 

[BigKari]

K has passed Cal in recruiting....it's arguable and very close but I would give K the edge. He signed #1 player this year. He signed the number #1 guy next year. And if you look at the aggregate of all the head to head battles over the last eight years K has won more then Cal.

This thread isn't about Duke's recruiting. That's all we talk about anymore. Kentucky's recruiting was great, is great and will continue to be great long after Krybaby is gone. Yeah they're on a hot streak right now, but we've been on a hot streak in recruiting for almost a decade.

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

Said it dozens of times on here ...I don't understand some folks' obsession with Duke. It makes the entire BBN look petty.

On Rafters I only read and post in Duke-related threads, mainly because the Duke boards suck. Honestly, the best way to get rid of us Duke lurkers is to stop talking about us.

 

[Wildcats1st]

What??? Did you even read my post, or are you just that stupid?

No I’m sick of the duke threads and if the first couple sentences about ratface I’m not gonna waste my time.

I just went back and read the rest and I made a similar post the other day. Championships are won on the court not the recruiting ratings UNLESS you recruit at a ridiculous clip as cal has done since he’s been here. I know he’s a helluva in game coach too and I think he’s gets one (championship) in the next two years. I like our team. We are better than we were last year IMO, at least a more complete team. So I don’t give two turds what rafface does. Sick of reading about him and the bed pissing over him is unparalleled. Sorry I didn’t read your post but I’m absolutely trying not to think about any team at any time other than ours

 

[JoeBeeHall]

I hope dook blows a fart gasket a poos all over the floor 2nd round

 

[Mike_Edwards]

You don’t like the duke threads so you start another one???

I agree, I can’t stand all the duke crap on this board. I loath them and everything associated with them and don’t mind saying it. I’d like to see all of the duke crap deleted from here. This is UK basketball!

 

[K_TIME]

Fox and Monk were better than half the duke players you mentioned k time lord your awful. maybe better than all but one player even.

Look I think we're fine under Cal....and I'm not knocking our guys.

But Giles was what Bagley was before the injuries. Also losing on so many wings is a reason why we weren't dominate last year and having to play Briscoe at SF too much. Those little things held us back a bit from being elite squad last year.

No matter how you want to spin it...Reddish and Barrett are both wing guys that need the ball to do their thing (Reddish is more point forward) but to lose them both is going to hurt next year's shot at being dominate.

The dominate teams like Cuz/Wall, Davis and then Towns teams aren't likely to occur without some of the top 5 guys on your roster. Also accumulating that much talent helps UK but it also kept it away from our competition. If we don't get back to top 5 guys, that is fine, all I'm saying is trying to be a bit more like UNC (guys staying more than 1 year) is a strategy I hope we don't embrace a bit better than in past.

 

[miracle7s]

You can win titles with one and dones we've seen it. But to do it on the backs of one and dones it has to be the tier 1 guys. Cousins, Wall, Davis, Towns. We haven't had one of those guys since Towns. We've had a lot of tier 2 guys right under that are great Murray, Monk, Fox, MKG, Bledsoe, etc... but you can't win a title with that level of guy being your top tier unless you have 6-7 of them all on the team at once and a few of them are sophs or juniors. I'm not saying Cal has lost his touch cause it was never his touch and it's not K's touch. It's we lost Orlando and K hired Capel it's literally just that simple. I also think Duke is selling Cal can't coach and whether you want to believe it or not there's more ammo for that gun than there should be and also I think it's appealing to certain families the prestige that Duke offers academically whether they ever get a degree or not.

Not everyone can be top dog forever, right now Cal/UK isn't the top dog. what will be the test is how Cal adjusts these next few years. Can he sign Wiseman, Bassey, and DJ Jefferies in 2019? Can he get most of the players on this team to come back next year and team with Quickley, Johnson, and Williamson(hopefully)? Will he take a guy like Tyler Herro just cause he knows we need shooters even though he doesn't like kids like him? Can he adjust? Of course. Will he adjust? I don't know. The game of basketball has changed in a big way the last few years and Cal hasn't gone with it at all. He's still stuck in the play big athletic guys with minimal basketball skills mold that used to be the thing. He hasn't embraced the pace and space model and I don't know if he ever will. I love Cal and think he's great but he has to adapt his staff, his recruiting philosophy, or his coaching philosophy to become king ding a ling again.

 

[4UK]

Dude Zion Williamson and James Wiseman ARE elite level guys. Kevin Knox may not look like it right now, but he's an elite level guy. I have high hopes for Vanderbilt too, he has a chance to be at that level. De'Aaron Fox and Malik Monk were elite guards for us. Jamal Murray too. Again it's complete bullshit this idea that's been thrown around a lot lately that Cal "cant get the elite guys anymore". It's downright foolish really, and also proven to be untrue.

Saying Cal "can't get elite guys" and saying K has now surpassed Cal in recruiting are not remotely the same. Of course Cal can still get elite guys. And he's the second best recruiter in the game right now. But he has been passed by K. To acknowledge that is not a slap a Cal or sign of Duke-envy, it's just recognizing reality.

 

[BleedinBlue85]

First of all I want to say, I'm disgusted by all the Duke threads on this board. People acting like Krybaby has surpassed Cal in recruiting. Give me a break. Yeah they got Bagley and Barrett...so what?? we just cant get every single guy. Look at the class Cal just brought in. Knox, Vanderbilt and Diallo are all lotto picks. Richards could be too based on potnetial, but has a long way to go. Washington may not go lotto because of his height, but his strength makes up for it in the college game so far. Looks like a 1st round pick though. Incredible class. SGA trending upwards too, could sneak into the 1st round if his shot starts falling consistently.

Looking forward it looks like a very good chance we get Williamson (arguably #1 in 18 class) and we lead for Wiseman in the '19 class who is the consensus #1. If we do end up landing these two guys in back to back classes...what more can you ask for? I know its not a done deal yet but this "has Cal lost his touch?" bullshit is so ridiculous. And I wont forget to mention he has already landed 2 top 15 guys for the '18 class.

Amen

 

[Bluegrassking]

You can win titles with one and dones we've seen it. But to do it on the backs of one and dones it has to be the tier 1 guys. Cousins, Wall, Davis, Towns. We haven't had one of those guys since Towns. We've had a lot of tier 2 guys right under that are great Murray, Monk, Fox, MKG, Bledsoe, etc... but you can't win a title with that level of guy being your top tier unless you have 6-7 of them all on the team at once and a few of them are sophs or juniors. I'm not saying Cal has lost his touch cause it was never his touch and it's not K's touch. It's we lost Orlando and K hired Capel it's literally just that simple. I also think Duke is selling Cal can't coach and whether you want to believe it or not there's more ammo for that gun than there should be and also I think it's appealing to certain families the prestige that Duke offers academically whether they ever get a degree or not.

Not everyone can be top dog forever, right now Cal/UK isn't the top dog. what will be the test is how Cal adjusts these next few years. Can he sign Wiseman, Bassey, and DJ Jefferies in 2019? Can he get most of the players on this team to come back next year and team with Quickley, Johnson, and Williamson(hopefully)? Will he take a guy like Tyler Herro just cause he knows we need shooters even though he doesn't like kids like him? Can he adjust? Of course. Will he adjust? I don't know. The game of basketball has changed in a big way the last few years and Cal hasn't gone with it at all. He's still stuck in the play big athletic guys with minimal basketball skills mold that used to be the thing. He hasn't embraced the pace and space model and I don't know if he ever will. I love Cal and think he's great but he has to adapt his staff, his recruiting philosophy, or his coaching philosophy to become king ding a ling again.

MINIMAL BASKETBALL SKILLS?

Are you insane, drunk, or stupid?

John Wall and Cousins had "minimal basketball skills"? Randle, KAT, Murray, Booker, Knight, Monk, Jones, Ulis, Lyles, BAM, and Fox have "minimal basketball skills"?

Have you ever even seen a basketball game?

 

[JonathanUSAF]

Duke will be Duke, UK will be UK, and both schools will continue landing top notch recruiting classes. Why people attempt to compare is beyond me considering you can have all the talent in the world, but if you can't adequately develop it in a short period of time while also focusing on roles/chemistry, then it is next to useless to you. Why people doubt Calipari is beyond me. UK will get some players in head to head battles against other traditional bluebloods and vice versa. It is the nature of the beast when recruiting.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Dude Zion Williamson and James Wiseman ARE elite level guys. Kevin Knox may not look like it right now, but he's an elite level guy. I have high hopes for Vanderbilt too, he has a chance to be at that level. De'Aaron Fox and Malik Monk were elite guards for us. Jamal Murray too. Again it's complete bullshit this idea that's been thrown around a lot lately that Cal "cant get the elite guys anymore". It's downright foolish really, and also proven to be untrue.

I agree that Cal hasn’t lost his touch, but counting Zion and Wiseman as locks at this point is questionable at best.

 

[wldctky]

First of all I want to say, I'm disgusted by all the Duke threads on this board. People acting like Krybaby has surpassed Cal in recruiting. Give me a break. Yeah they got Bagley and Barrett...so what?? we just cant get every single guy. Look at the class Cal just brought in. Knox, Vanderbilt and Diallo are all lotto picks. Richards could be too based on potnetial, but has a long way to go. Washington may not go lotto because of his height, but his strength makes up for it in the college game so far. Looks like a 1st round pick though. Incredible class. SGA trending upwards too, could sneak into the 1st round if his shot starts falling consistently.

Looking forward it looks like a very good chance we get Williamson (arguably #1 in 18 class) and we lead for Wiseman in the '19 class who is the consensus #1. If we do end up landing these two guys in back to back classes...what more can you ask for? I know its not a done deal yet but this "has Cal lost his touch?" bullshit is so ridiculous. And I wont forget to mention he has already landed 2 top 15 guys for the '18 class.

not getting Zion if he doesn't sign this week IMO

 

[Craig Scratch Weaver]

Clemson just got a CB pick for Zion. The only reason I can see for him not coming here is if two of Washington, Vanderbilt, and Gabriel are back. Even then I don’t get going to Clemson or trying to share with Reddish and Barrett at Duke.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

You can win titles with one and dones we've seen it. But to do it on the backs of one and dones it has to be the tier 1 guys. Cousins, Wall, Davis, Towns. We haven't had one of those guys since Towns. We've had a lot of tier 2 guys right under that are great Murray, Monk, Fox, MKG, Bledsoe, etc... but you can't win a title with that level of guy being your top tier unless you have 6-7 of them all on the team at once and a few of them are sophs or juniors. I'm not saying Cal has lost his touch cause it was never his touch and it's not K's touch. It's we lost Orlando and K hired Capel it's literally just that simple. I also think Duke is selling Cal can't coach and whether you want to believe it or not there's more ammo for that gun than there should be and also I think it's appealing to certain families the prestige that Duke offers academically whether they ever get a degree or not.

Not everyone can be top dog forever, right now Cal/UK isn't the top dog. what will be the test is how Cal adjusts these next few years. Can he sign Wiseman, Bassey, and DJ Jefferies in 2019? Can he get most of the players on this team to come back next year and team with Quickley, Johnson, and Williamson(hopefully)? Will he take a guy like Tyler Herro just cause he knows we need shooters even though he doesn't like kids like him? Can he adjust? Of course. Will he adjust? I don't know. The game of basketball has changed in a big way the last few years and Cal hasn't gone with it at all. He's still stuck in the play big athletic guys with minimal basketball skills mold that used to be the thing. He hasn't embraced the pace and space model and I don't know if he ever will. I love Cal and think he's great but he has to adapt his staff, his recruiting philosophy, or his coaching philosophy to become king ding a ling again.

I agree with some of these points, I don’t think the overall game (high school, college, NBA) has changed to the extent that many are claiming. The NBA game has been forced to change because the three best shooters in the league are on one team. That doesn’t translate to the college game to the degree that some assert, not in the least. UNC, for example, just won a title with a team that hit about 29% of its three point shots in the NCAA Tournament last year. Does that echo a GS Warrior-like style facsimile?

Not at all. In college, you can still get away with out-athleting your opponent if you have a bit of everything.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

not getting Zion if he doesn't sign this week IMO

Why? UK landed Vanderbilt/Diallo last year in December. Early signing period doesn’t mean wait until March. Zion has stated all along that his time table in late November/early December after all of his visits concluded.

Also, I’m not sure how the presence of Washington (a 4) or Gabriel (a 4) prohibit the arrival of Zion, who sees himself as a 3 and will want to be featured as a 3 at Kentucky or wherever he goes.

 

[wldctky]

Why? UK landed Vanderbilt/Diallo last year in December. Early signing period doesn’t mean wait until March. Zion has stated all along that his time table in late November/early December after all of his visits concluded.

Also, I’m not sure how the presence of Washington (a 4) or Gabriel (a 4) prohibit the arrival of Zion, who sees himself as a 3 and will want to be featured as a 3 at Kentucky or wherever he goes.

Gut feeling...it's now or never

 

[ThroughBlue]

We have the #1 class last year if Diallo is considered.

 

[ThroughBlue]

What’s the latest on wiseman reclassifying?

 

[kyups01]

if landing the #1 overall recruit is the only criteria when determining if K is ou trecruiting Cal then yes, he is owning Cal. Otherwise Cal is still King. Landing Zion will go a long wise in cementing that.

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

What’s the latest on wiseman reclassifying?

When's the last time you heard of someone reclassifying to play 2 years of college basketball? If he does it'll honestly be the greatest thing for UK bball for some time

 

[miracle7s]

MINIMAL BASKETBALL SKILLS?

Are you insane, drunk, or stupid?

John Wall and Cousins had "minimal basketball skills"? Randle, KAT, Murray, Booker, Knight, Monk, Jones, Ulis, Lyles, BAM, and Fox have "minimal basketball skills"?

Have you ever even seen a basketball game?

you took that to mean something i didn't mean for it to imply. i meant that Cal has always focused on athletes more than ball skills. Obviously to critique any player at UK or any college for that matter you are setting aside the fact they are all the 1% of elite basketball players and nitpicking the minimal details. i don't think you would find someone who disagrees with that really if they are being honest.

 

[CarolinaCatsFan]

Clemson just got a CB pick for Zion. The only reason I can see for him not coming here is if two of Washington, Vanderbilt, and Gabriel are back. Even then I don’t get going to Clemson or trying to share with Reddish and Barrett at Duke.

This. Little concerning he just picked up that CB pick for Clemson. I was encouraged a bit since they expected him to be on the Clemson campus this weekend -- and he didn't show.. but, this isn't great.

I know they say "know one knows" what Zion will do.. but it's not encouraging. Apparently the pull to "stay home" may be stronger than we think.

I HOPE the pull to constantly play on national TV, play with his buddy IQ, and compete for a national title is stronger..

 

[miracle7s]

I agree with some of these points, I don’t think the overall game (high school, college, NBA) has changed to the extent that many are claiming. The NBA game has been forced to change because the three best shooters in the league are on one team. That doesn’t translate to the college game to the degree that some assert, not in the least. UNC, for example, just won a title with a team that hit about 29% of its three point shots in the NCAA Tournament last year. Does that echo a GS Warrior-like style facsimile?

Not at all. In college, you can still get away with out-athleting your opponent if you have a bit of everything.

i'm not saying you need to be the warriors, rockets, cavs, etc... im just saying with the elite of the elite guys like Wall, Davis, Cousins, Towns, it's easier to get away with not having elite scorers. for me personally I'd rather have a Doron Lamb than a James Young and I'm not sure Cal would.

 

[Bluegrassking]

you took that to mean something i didn't mean for it to imply. i meant that Cal has always focused on athletes more than ball skills. Obviously to critique any player at UK or any college for that matter you are setting aside the fact they are all the 1% of elite basketball players and nitpicking the minimal details. i don't think you would find someone who disagrees with that really if they are being honest.

Imply? You stated outright. How else would it be interpreted? All you did is reword your phony statement. I don't think the guys I mentioned as lacking in ball skills even in context of elite players nor have you presented any arguments that they do. It is simply an assertion on skates. KAT is lacking ball skills? That is absurd.

 

[Bluegrassking]

i'm not saying you need to be the warriors, rockets, cavs, etc... im just saying with the elite of the elite guys like Wall, Davis, Cousins, Towns, it's easier to get away with not having elite scorers. for me personally I'd rather have a Doron Lamb than a James Young and I'm not sure Cal would.

Really? What about Booker, Murray, Monk, and I'll throw out he brought in Baker this year too. All in a row. No pattern there at all? Lamb himself doesn't count either? Offer to (and probable signing of) Herro doesn't count?

It seems more a case of you have constructed a bias that facts cannot overcome or even inform. You have spun up a narrative between your ears and reality be damned that won't be challenged.

 

[Blue Decade]

But I'm cool with Cal's recruiting. He'll still get some great kids but maybe not elite level kids like he once did.

Earth to K_Time.

 

[OHIO COLONEL]

I think a lot of times we, all of us, don't keep in perspective the ages of certain players and the passage of time. May get a bit confused with the player who's a 4, 5, or 6 year pro who is a grown man...with who he was years ago coming in as a 18 freshman, or the type player he was as a 17 year old HS Senior.

 

[mustnotsleepnow]

You can win titles with one and dones we've seen it. But to do it on the backs of one and dones it has to be the tier 1 guys. Cousins, Wall, Davis, Towns. We haven't had one of those guys since Towns. We've had a lot of tier 2 guys right under that are great Murray, Monk, Fox, MKG, Bledsoe, etc... but you can't win a title with that level of guy being your top tier unless you have 6-7 of them all on the team at once and a few of them are sophs or juniors.

I’m sorry. This is just idiotic and short sighted. I’ve seen this posted on here too many times.

Did you already forget that we lost to UNC, the National Champs, by 2 on a last second shot? A game largely decided by an incompetent, biased referee?

If we don’t get shafted that game, we very likely would have won the title on the backs of so called “tier 2” guys. Honestly, calling Fox and Monk tier 2 is laughable and quite frankly, stupid.