Why would Kansas sign mostly 4-star freshmen?

[Son_Of_Saul]

Self seems to be wanting to prioritize the portal over the high school player market.

It might be the way to do this going forward for UK, especially if Bradshaw never shows up here.

 

[kyjeff1]

Self has 7

Cal has 3

So twice as much. 3-4 times was exaggerated hyperbole, not literal.

Okay, so here's what you're doing, you're going back to 2005 for Bill Self, but you're only going back to 2010 for Calipari. Why? This might be the most pathetic thing a Cal fan has done on here.

So, Self merely losing early in the NCAAT 7 total times since 2005, is somehow worse than Cal, who has been to the NIT… .twice, had a historically bad season and lost in the first weekend twice, in that same timeframe?

Ahhhh, no, going to the NIT and going 9-16 is far worse than losing in any round of the NCAAT.

And again, you said Self had lost in the first weekend "3-4 times more than Cal has". That's a lie and you are still here trying to argue about it, by moving goalposts and timeframing.

The hole you are digging, just keeps getting deeper with each post.

 

[Sparkaces1]

They have brought up many times on KSR, the Fringe 4/5 players do not do well at UK, they come in thinking they are one and dones. That is where Kansas does much better at keeping those guys around. Self is also plugging in any holes with the portal much better than Cal.

 

[gracetoyou]

Okay, so here's what you're doing, you're going back to 2005 for Bill Self, but you're only going back to 2010 for Calipari. Why? This might be the most pathetic thing a Cal fan has done on here.

So, Self merely losing early in the NCAAT 7 total times since 2005, is somehow worse than Cal, who has been to the NIT… .twice, had a historically bad season and lost in the first weekend twice, in that same timeframe?

Ahhhh, no, going to the NIT and going 9-16 is far worse than losing in any round of the NCAAT.

And again, you said Self had lost in the first weekend "3-4 times more than Cal has". That's a lie and you are still here trying to argue about it, by moving goalposts and timeframing.

The hole you are digging, just keeps getting deeper with each post.

Ok....5 times

Comparing tournament resumes only while Cal is at UK....Cal has a small edge in most categories except for 2022 when Self one another Naty.

I'm not digging a hole. I'm showing you that the man your drooling over is not really more accomplished than the coach you want to run off. And most want him run off over the last 3 seasons. Kind of short-sighted & impatient.

 

[kyjeff1]

Ok....5 times

Comparing tournament resumes only while Cal is at UK....Cal has a small edge in most categories except for 2022 when Self one another Naty.

I'm not digging a hole. I'm showing you that the man your drooling over is not really more accomplished than the coach you want to run off. And most want him run off over the last 3 seasons. Kind of short-sighted & impatient.

So, by me showing you how far off you were, on everything you have said, it means I'm drooling over Bill Self??? Come on man

 

[gracetoyou]

So, by me showing you how far off you were, on everything you have said, it means I'm drooling over Bill Self??? Come on man

I'm not wrong. I posted facts. If you're referring to the "3-4 times" deal I explained.

I also just posted go ahead & compare Cal & Self while Cal has been at UK. I posted all of that in one if the posts.

 

[kyjeff1]

I'm not wrong. I posted facts. If you're referring to the "3-4 times" deal I explained.

I also just posted go ahead & compare Cal & Self while Cal has been at UK. I posted all of that in one if the posts.

You have been wrong on every "fact" you put out there. It boggles my mind that you think anything you posted as fact, is true.

 

[gracetoyou]

You have been wrong on every "fact" you put out there. It boggles my mind that you think anything you posted as fact, is true.

Ok. I guess you can't read?? Go look it all up bud. It's available to anyone to see. I literally posted the info from Kansas' history page & UK's.

You're telling me that Self has not lost 5, 2nd round games since Cal's been at UK? (2010, 2014, 2015, 2019, & 2021)

You're telling me Self has more than 3 final 4's since Cals been at UK? (2012, 2018, 2022)

You're telling me Self advanced to the Elite 8 since 2018 more than once...last year 2022?

You mentioned one thing & acting like I did not post facts. You in denial junior? Or you illiterate or what?

Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[cats#1again]

So, here you have a program in Kansas that is currently at the top of CBB. You can argue about which of a couple of programs is “the” top program, but it doesn’t matter. As well as any program, I think Kansas can get in the door with anybody they want to recruit and, if they want, get commitments from 5-star high schoolers on a level with anybody.

So, for the last few years why have they been focusing on players not ranked as high and often talented projectable 4-star recruits (sometimes even outside the Top 100)? Is it a strategy connected to the Transfer Portal? Is it because they can no longer attract 5-star high school kids? And if it’s part of a planned approach, is it wise?

My guess is the plan assumes most Kansas 4-star freshman recruits come in understanding the need to develop and be more patient than one-year. Therefore, Kansas ends up with a carry-over base from year to year. Some of those recruits develop into very good college players, while some won’t work out as well and will transfer in their Junior year. Then Kansas identifies the top transfers and adds 2-3 of those. Meanwhile, the 4 or so incoming freshmen mostly provide depth and learn on the job.

Don't kid yourself. He recruits top kids too. He just doesn't get them the way they did when he was paying them

 

[kyjeff1]

Ok. I guess you can't read?? Go look it all up bud. It's available to anyone to see. I literally posted the info from Kansas' history page & UK's.

You're telling me that Self has not lost 5, 2nd round games since Cal's been at UK? (2010, 2014, 2015, 2019, & 2021)

You're telling me Self has more than 3 final 4's since Cals been at UK? (2012, 2018, 2022)

You're telling me Self advanced to the Elite 8 since 2018 more than once...last year 2022?

You mentioned one thing & acting like I did not post facts. You in denial junior? Or you illiterate or what?

Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You're changing the subject again. When was the discussion ever about final fours? It wasn't.

Also, since when does 5 equal "3-4 times" 4? You said Bill Self has lost 3-4 times more often, in the first weekend, than Cal has. You ignored the fact that Cal missed the entire tournament twice, for some reason.

Just admit it, you lied to prop up your boy.

 

[gracetoyou]

You're changing the subject again. When was the discussion ever about final fours? It wasn't.

Also, since when does 5 equal "3-4 times" 4? You said Bill Self has lost 3-4 times more often, in the first weekend, than Cal has. You ignored the fact that Cal missed the entire tournament twice, for some reason.

Just admit it, you lied to prop up your boy.

Lol...is something wrong with you? I didn't lie to "prop up my boy". I did not post 3-4 times when I posted all the facts. That was a post using exaggerated hyperbole not a literal "favt-checker" post. You must be a millennial & everything is 100% literal.

After that I made 2 posts with literal facts which did not include 3-4 times more. Overall that's true but only almost twice as much as Cal during tenor at UK.

Not propping my boy but showing FACTS that Self's resume is behind Cal's in areas the past 13 years & in others barely an edge. I'm sorry your feelings are so hurt about the last 3 seasons that you'd ignore that.

 

[G-PIP]

Don't kid yourself. He recruits top kids too. He just doesn't get them the way they did when he was paying them

As I said, the point of my post was to discuss the approaches to roster building – not Calipari vs Self per se. I like a lot of the responses, and some made me think of some stuff I maybe hadn’t thought about. Kansas was offered as an example based on how their rosters have looked lately and because that program is one of the closest comparable to UK in “star power” (for lack of a better term).

My belief is that the best plan for building rosters is to start with a base of 4-5 good returning players (scholarship players capable of being at least role players or even really good to solid starters), add 2-3 top transfer portal guys, and bring in 3-4 freshmen that you’ve put a lot of time in scouting (with no more than 1-2 of those being OAD likely). Things would obviously vary some from year to year, but that’s my idea of the best way to build a roster.

I think we ought to be able to discuss the pros and cons of different approaches without getting too defensive, calling each other “idiots,” etc., right? My bias, which I admit, is: (1) I don’t think OAD freshmen are generally good enough to carry a team offensively; and that relying on them is too much of a gamble, and at a star program like UK you really shouldn’t have to gamble so much; (2) that the top transfers in today’s transfer portal will usually be better college players (defined as impact on winning college games) and almost certainly better perimeter shooters than freshmen (OAD or otherwise) for that one year; and (3) claimed #1 recruiting classes based on recruiting ranking and projected (or actual) NBA draft position for incoming recruits does not correlate well with winning a championship in college.

 

[kyjeff1]

Lol...is something wrong with you? I didn't lie to "prop up my boy". I did not post 3-4 times when I posted all the facts. That was a post using exaggerated hyperbole not a literal "favt-checker" post. You must be a millennial & everything is 100% literal.

After that I made 2 posts with literal facts which did not include 3-4 times more. Overall that's true but only almost twice as much as Cal during tenor at UK.

Not propping my boy but showing FACTS that Self's resume is behind Cal's in areas the past 13 years & in others barely an edge. I'm sorry your feelings are so hurt about the last 3 seasons that you'd ignore that.

So, you're admitting you posted hyperbolic bullshit and you're trying to act like something is wrong with ME????? Hilarious.

And if you think Bill Self's resume is behind Cal's, because he has a couple more first weekend NCAAT losses, you're so wrong.

Bill Self/KU plays in a tougher conference, has never missed the NCAAT (in Self's tenure) and has 2 national titles (Self).

Cal's 9-16 season, makes him far worse than Self all on it's own. But you keep on trying to defend Cal, when the actual facts say different.

 

[bthaunert]

My belief is that the best plan for building rosters is to start with a base of 4-5 good returning players (scholarship players capable of being at least role players or even really good to solid starters), add 2-3 top transfer portal guys, and bring in 3-4 freshmen that you’ve put a lot of time in scouting (with no more than 1-2 of those being OAD likely). Things would obviously vary some from year to year, but that’s my idea of the best way to build a roster.

It's interesting what you think the perfect roster is:

2022-23 Roster
4 - 5 good returning players - Oscar, Toppin, Wheeler, Ware, Collins
2 - 3 top transfers - Frederick, Reeves
3 - 4 freshman (only 1 - 2 OAD) - Wallace, Livingston, Ugonna, Adou

2021-22 Roster
4 - 5 good returning players - Brooks, Mintz, Toppin, Ware, Allen
2 - 3 top transfers - Wheeler, Oscar, Grady
3 - 4 freshman (only 1 - 2 OAD) - Ty Ty, Collins, Hopkins

We have had good rosters the past couple of years since the transfer rule went into effect. There is a common denominator here though.

 

[gracetoyou]

So, you're admitting you posted hyperbolic bullshit and you're trying to act like something is wrong with ME????? Hilarious.

And if you think Bill Self's resume is behind Cal's, because he has a couple more first weekend NCAAT losses, you're so wrong.

Bill Self/KU plays in a tougher conference, has never missed the NCAAT (in Self's tenure) and has 2 national titles (Self).

Cal's 9-16 season, makes him far worse than Self all on it's own. But you keep on trying to defend Cal, when the actual facts say different.

Big 12 is overrated EVERY single season.

Bill's self has 3 final 4's while Cal has 4 final 4's during his UK years. Cal has 6 overall.

Self has 2 national championships one during Cal's UK gig to Cal's 1.

Since being at UK Calipari has:
- appeared in 11 NCAA tournaments
-1 national championship
-4 final 4's
- 7 of 11 has advanced to at least the Elite 8
-has 1 first rd & 1 second rd exit

During the same period Self has:
-13 NCAA appearances
-1 national championship
-3 final 4's
-6 of 13 has advanced to the Elite 8
-has 5 second rd exits in those 13

Those are all facts. There's nothing hyperbolic about any of that.

 

[gracetoyou]

Waiting on @kyjeff1 to show us all which of the above is hyperbolic.

 

[G-PIP]

It's interesting what you think the perfect roster is:

2022-23 Roster
4 - 5 good returning players - Oscar, Toppin, Wheeler, Ware, Collins
2 - 3 top transfers - Frederick, Reeves
3 - 4 freshman (only 1 - 2 OAD) - Wallace, Livingston, Ugonna, Adou

2021-22 Roster
4 - 5 good returning players - Brooks, Mintz, Toppin, Ware, Allen
2 - 3 top transfers - Wheeler, Oscar, Grady
3 - 4 freshman (only 1 - 2 OAD) - Ty Ty, Collins, Hopkins

We have had good rosters the past couple of years since the transfer rule went into effect. There is a common denominator here though.

As I said, that's my idea on the best plan. Do you have a different opinion?

 

[bthaunert]

As I said, that's my idea on the best plan. Do you have a different opinion?

I wasn't disagreeing. I commented that we have had good rosters the past couple of years with that formula. We just haven't had post season success.

 

[G-PIP]

I wasn't disagreeing. I commented that we have had good rosters the past couple of years with that formula. We just haven't had post season success.

I agree. I know people can rightly bring up the end result wasn't good. But that 2022 roster was getting it done before March.

 

[Padsfs07]

It's interesting what you think the perfect roster is:

2022-23 Roster
4 - 5 good returning players - Oscar, Toppin, Wheeler, Ware, Collins
2 - 3 top transfers - Frederick, Reeves
3 - 4 freshman (only 1 - 2 OAD) - Wallace, Livingston, Ugonna, Adou

2021-22 Roster
4 - 5 good returning players - Brooks, Mintz, Toppin, Ware, Allen
2 - 3 top transfers - Wheeler, Oscar, Grady
3 - 4 freshman (only 1 - 2 OAD) - Ty Ty, Collins, Hopkins

We have had good rosters the past couple of years since the transfer rule went into effect. There is a common denominator here though.

I had this same post written out, but ended up deleting in. Kudos to you. I think Calipari builds excellent rosters, but doesn't utilize them the best. He is light on depth, which is frustrating.

 

[kyjeff1]

Big 12 is overrated EVERY single season.

Bill's self has 3 final 4's while Cal has 4 final 4's during his UK years. Cal has 6 overall.

Self has 2 national championships one during Cal's UK gig to Cal's 1.

Since being at UK Calipari has:
- appeared in 11 NCAA tournaments
-1 national championship
-4 final 4's
- 7 of 11 has advanced to at least the Elite 8
-has 1 first rd & 1 second rd exit

During the same period Self has:
-13 NCAA appearances
-1 national championship
-3 final 4's
-6 of 13 has advanced to the Elite 8
-has 5 second rd exits in those 13

Those are all facts. There's nothing hyperbolic about any of that.

All fluff.

Cal: 1 title
Self: 2 titles

Cal: missed NCAAT twice
Self: 0 NCAAT misses

Cal: 1 historical losing season
Self: 0 historical losing seasons

Those are the most important stats. So what, Cal has 1 more final 4, that just means he won his region 1 more time, but when you go 9-16, who really cares about 1 more final 4?

Form it any way you want, Cal has greatly underperformed and he's had by far more talent than everyone else.

Are you good with 9-16? Seems like you are.

 

[kyjeff1]

Waiting on @kyjeff1 to show us all which of the above is hyperbolic.

I have posted 3-4 times more facts than you.

Am I doing this right?

 

[gracetoyou]

All fluff.

Cal: 1 title
Self: 2 titles

Cal: missed NCAAT twice
Self: 0 NCAAT misses

Cal: 1 historical losing season
Self: 0 historical losing seasons

Those are the most important stats. So what, Cal has 1 more final 4, that just means he won his region 1 more time, but when you go 9-16, who really cares about 1 more final 4?

Form it any way you want, Cal has greatly underperformed and he's had by far more talent than everyone else.

Are you good with 9-16? Seems like you are.

Lol... In other words you have no comeback but your subjective opinion of what the most important stats are. Case closed!

 

[gracetoyou]

All fluff.

Cal: 1 title
Self: 2 titles

Cal: missed NCAAT twice
Self: 0 NCAAT misses

Cal: 1 historical losing season
Self: 0 historical losing seasons

Those are the most important stats. So what, Cal has 1 more final 4, that just means he won his region 1 more time, but when you go 9-16, who really cares about 1 more final 4?

Form it any way you want, Cal has greatly underperformed and he's had by far more talent than everyone else.

Are you good with 9-16? Seems like you are.

Dude...it was a covid year & trams that had no returning players...like UK...struggled greatly. They could not spend time together in the summer. Very restricted time on campus. Basketball practice was way out of the ordinary. Who thrived that year? Veteran teams. We also had injuries with Clark missing tie & Boston played with a broken finger on his shooting g hand. Plus...our guys were just not as talented as we hoped.

That year bothered me little.

 

[kyjeff1]

Lol... In other words you have no comeback but your subjective opinion of what the most important stats are. Case closed!

No comeback??? Dude, you're getting embarrassed here and what worse, you don't even see.it.

 

[kyjeff1]

Dude...it was a covid year & trams that had no returning players...like UK...struggled greatly. They could not spend time together in the summer. Very restricted time on campus. Basketball practice was way out of the ordinary. Who thrived that year? Veteran teams. We also had injuries with Clark missing tie & Boston played with a broken finger on his shooting g hand. Plus...our guys were just not as talented as we hoped.

That year bothered me little.

Nice excuse. It was a covid year for everyone, yet two teams damn near went undefeated.

You just hang on every excuse Cal feeds you. That's pretty pathetic man.

 

[Joerules19]

Big 12 is overrated EVERY single season.

Bill's self has 3 final 4's while Cal has 4 final 4's during his UK years. Cal has 6 overall.

Self has 2 national championships one during Cal's UK gig to Cal's 1.

Since being at UK Calipari has:
- appeared in 11 NCAA tournaments
-1 national championship
-4 final 4's
- 7 of 11 has advanced to at least the Elite 8
-has 1 first rd & 1 second rd exit

During the same period Self has:
-13 NCAA appearances
-1 national championship
-3 final 4's
-6 of 13 has advanced to the Elite 8
-has 5 second rd exits in those 13

Those are all facts. There's nothing hyperbolic about any of that.

I think most would want the 2nd list

 

[kyjeff1]

Big 12 is overrated EVERY single season.

Bill's self has 3 final 4's while Cal has 4 final 4's during his UK years. Cal has 6 overall.

Self has 2 national championships one during Cal's UK gig to Cal's 1.

Since being at UK Calipari has:
- appeared in 11 NCAA tournaments
-1 national championship
-4 final 4's
- 7 of 11 has advanced to at least the Elite 8. -has 1 first rd & 1 second rd exit -has a historically bad season (9-16). -Has missed the NCAAT twice

During the same period Self has:
-13 NCAA appearances
-1 national championship
-3 final 4's
-6 of 13 has advanced to the Elite 8
-has 5 second rd exits in those 13

Those are all facts. There's nothing hyperbolic about any of that.

It's funny how you left out Cal's NIT season and his 9-16 2021 season. I have taken the liberty of editing your post for you, since you forgot about those facts. Now compare the resumes.

 

[gracetoyou]

It's funny how you left out Cal's NIT season and his 9-16 2021 season. I have taken the liberty of editing your post for you, since you forgot about those facts. Now compare the resumes.

I didn't leave out anything I'm simply listening they're NCAA tournament resume. A blind man could see that 11 NCAA tournaments and 13 NCAA tournaments in the same means that the coach who had 11 missed 2.

 

[gracetoyou]

I think most would want the 2nd list

Yeah why not:
-same number of championships
-1 less final 4
-1 less Elite 8
-3 more 2nd rd exits

Lol... To each his own I guess.

 

[kyjeff1]

I didn't leave out anything I'm simply listening they're NCAA tournament resume. A blind man could see that 11 NCAA tournaments and 13 NCAA tournaments in the same means that the coach who had 11 missed 2.

Wow, such an enlightening post. Wow.

 

[gracetoyou]

Wow, such an enlightening post. Wow.

BTW, Cal is 32-10 in 11 NCAA tournament appearances.

Self is 28-12 in 13 appearances over same time.

My purpose in posting anything I've been posting is NOT to say Self is not a good coach or Cal is better. My point is the weird perception that Self more successful at Kansas & Cal is horrible. It's a perception created by Self's 2022 title. Cal's is created by the last 3 seasons one of which was the covid year.

 

[gracetoyou]

Go ahead & laugh....you're the one that looks foolish. You have nothing to say that's factual but only how you feel.