Why would Kansas sign mostly 4-star freshmen?

[G-PIP]

So, here you have a program in Kansas that is currently at the top of CBB. You can argue about which of a couple of programs is “the” top program, but it doesn’t matter. As well as any program, I think Kansas can get in the door with anybody they want to recruit and, if they want, get commitments from 5-star high schoolers on a level with anybody.

So, for the last few years why have they been focusing on players not ranked as high and often talented projectable 4-star recruits (sometimes even outside the Top 100)? Is it a strategy connected to the Transfer Portal? Is it because they can no longer attract 5-star high school kids? And if it’s part of a planned approach, is it wise?

My guess is the plan assumes most Kansas 4-star freshman recruits come in understanding the need to develop and be more patient than one-year. Therefore, Kansas ends up with a carry-over base from year to year. Some of those recruits develop into very good college players, while some won’t work out as well and will transfer in their Junior year. Then Kansas identifies the top transfers and adds 2-3 of those. Meanwhile, the 4 or so incoming freshmen mostly provide depth and learn on the job.

 

[kyjeff1]

Because Bill Self, like most college coaches, knows that you have to develop your own players to win in today's game and it's working.

4* kids don't have a one-and-done mindset, so it's a really good plan. I can't wait until we have a coach that thinks that way. I'm tired of rental players that don't give a rip about UK.

 

[Fadhi]

Ebbs and flows.
When Cal was crushing it with 5 stars, Self was picking up the 5 star scraps who had with encourages and attitude issues.

Things have changed with the portal and it worked out for Kansas.

 

[blackcat714]

Say he does that so he can get the top transfers that way he keeps older players starting

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Because Bill Self, like most college coaches, knows that you have to develop your own players to win in today's game and it's working.

4* kids don't have a one-and-done mindset, so it's a really good plan. I can't wait until we have a coach that thinks that way. I'm tired of rental players that don't give a rip about UK.

This is exactly right. However, some of our former 4 stars has blossomed into OADs, like Herro and SGA. Our culture is terrible here.

 

[Padsfs07]

KU got 3 recruits in 20/21, all 3 tranferred.

KU got 4 recruits in 21/22, 3 of them have transferred.

They got 4 more in 22/23 and 2 of them transferred, with Gradey Dick going pro.

They have 4 signed for 23/24 so I'm not expecting much in the way of loyalty. Self seems to get one good recruit a year that will stay or play well like KJ Adams, Dick, Ernest Udeh, and likely Elmarko Jackson this year.

Also, he doesn't target 4-star players as in each of these years he's gotten some 5-stars too.

 

[Oldbluefart]

It seems everything today is in a stare of constant change; whether it be sports or politics, the only thing that is constant is nothing is permanent anymore.
Politicians change their stance/views on an issue depending on the direction of the wind
Recruits and players alike seems to do the same; who can give me the most NIL, guarantee me playing time , promise me a position and they jump around more than a grasshopper

Neither politicians or athletes seems to care about loyalty. Politicians set the tone for the environment for which we live and function in. Athletes are not far behind.

Kansas grabbed onto the portal to blend in with lesser named star players and it is like Coach Cal and the OAD; Self has jumped ahead of others the way I see it.
Coaches must adapt and change or they will be behind the curve.
Look at coaches like Denny Crum or Bob Knight; both were slow to adapt to the 3 point shot and they got left behind when the game changed.
The portal and NIL has changed everything. You can forget players being loyal to a school from this point on. Their loyalty rest with the Benjamin's today. Same as politicians.

 

[FtWorthCat]

KU got 3 recruits in 20/21, all 3 tranferred.

KU got 4 recruits in 21/22, 3 of them have transferred.

They got 4 more in 22/23 and 2 of them transferred, with Gradey Dick going pro.

They have 4 signed for 23/24 so I'm not expecting much in the way of loyalty. Self seems to get one good recruit a year that will stay or play well like KJ Adams, Dick, Ernest Udeh, and likely Elmarko Jackson this year.

Also, he doesn't target 4-star players as in each of these years he's gotten some 5-stars too.

So in summary Kansas is not the top program just because they finally won it once year before last, nor do their players stick around any more than ours do.

 

[FitchandMurray29]

KU does not recruit top players for a reason thread the same weekend the number 1 recruit in 2024 is at KU on a visit…I like it!

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

He actually builds a roster. Cal is college bball’s Daniel Snyder when it comes to roster management.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Because UK and Duke get all the 5 stars.

 

[cornbreadnmilk]

I do think Self is better at putting a roster together that actually fits.Cal wants all the 5 stars without considering how they fit together.

 

[sk73]

So, here you have a program in Kansas that is currently at the top of CBB. You can argue about which of a couple of programs is “the” top program, but it doesn’t matter. As well as any program, I think Kansas can get in the door with anybody they want to recruit and, if they want, get commitments from 5-star high schoolers on a level with anybody.

So, for the last few years why have they been focusing on players not ranked as high and often talented projectable 4-star recruits (sometimes even outside the Top 100)? Is it a strategy connected to the Transfer Portal? Is it because they can no longer attract 5-star high school kids? And if it’s part of a planned approach, is it wise?

My guess is the plan assumes most Kansas 4-star freshman recruits come in understanding the need to develop and be more patient than one-year. Therefore, Kansas ends up with a carry-over base from year to year. Some of those recruits develop into very good college players, while some won’t work out as well and will transfer in their Junior year. Then Kansas identifies the top transfers and adds 2-3 of those. Meanwhile, the 4 or so incoming freshmen mostly provide depth and learn on the job.

You may be right although there are exceptions. Grady Dick was a five star and played liked it. Elmarko Jackson is currently in the incoming 2023 class. Jason Amemota and Zoom Diallo are targets for 2024. But for the most part I agree with you. Good observation by you. Self seems to have a successful strategy.

 

[Padsfs07]

He actually builds a roster. Cal is college bball’s Daniel Snyder when it comes to roster management.

On paper, we’ve had really solid rosters, it’s the coaching and rotations that are suspect imo.

 

[cathouse]

Kansas is the program some here think we are.
Emphasis on PROGRAM.

 

[UKAlum84]

Again, he knows that a team is more important than having the "best" player/s.

 

[UKAlum84]

You got to do the things that make sense.

A complete team > Goliath

 

[Doodah859]

Cute theory , except Kansas offered Dillingham, Edwards, and other 5 stars lol

 

[kyjeff1]

So in summary Kansas is not the top program just because they finally won it once year before last, nor do their players stick around any more than ours do.

But they do stick around longer at KU.

Every year they seem to have guys leading the team that have come up through their program.

-Jalen Wilson - ranked 51st in 2019, needs no introduction. Won a title.

-Ochai Agbaji played 4 years at KU and by the time he was a senior, was good enough to lead them to a title.

-Christian Braun played at KU 3 years, won a title and is playing big minutes in the NBA playoffs

-David McCormack: rated 30th in 2018, played 4 years at KU

-Dujuan Harris, played 4 years at KU, won a title

-Mitch Lightfoot, played 6 years at KU, won a title

-KJ Adams, played 2 years, was rated 66 in 2021, like everyone else on this list, won a title.

This is a list gathered from just the last couple season, how many guys has UK had stay more than 2 years? Most of these dudes were 3 and 4 star kids that Self developed.

Same thing with Baylor's 2021 team, Nova's two title teams, uNC's 2017 title team, UVA's 2019 title team and on and on and on.

 

[kyjeff1]

KU does not recruit top players for a reason thread the same weekend the number 1 recruit in 2024 is at KU on a visit…I like it!

The OP said "mostly". It's right in the thread title. He didn't say "only".

 

[kyjeff1]

Cute theory , except Kansas offered Dillingham, Edwards, and other 5 stars lol

Where did the OP say KU doesn't recruit, or offer 5* kids?

 

[Doodah859]

Where did the OP say KU doesn't recruit, or offer 5* kids?

Oh so if they could actually sign the 5 stars they'd take less 4 stars? Interesting

 

[christophero]

It is a good plan if you can keep kids from tranferring. Fill in the holes with transfers. Even Grady D was not a surefire one and done

 

[kyjeff1]

Oh so if they could actually sign the 5 stars they'd take less 4 stars? Interesting

No, just like everyone else, they are obviously trying to supplement what they have, with one or two 5* kids.

How is this hard to understand?

 

[YardCat]

Self recruits what he needs and builds around what is returning. Seems like an easy concept.

 

[G-PIP]

Ebbs and flows.
When Cal was crushing it with 5 stars, Self was picking up the 5 star scraps who had with encourages and attitude issues.

Things have changed with the portal and it worked out for Kansas.

And Fadhi, I’m not trying to make the discussion a Self vs Calipari thing at all. I couldn’t even say for sure that my perception of what Kansas is doing is intentional, but I think it is; and I also haven’t forgotten the player character issues Kansas has had. I’m just talking about roster building approaches today (without regard to the coach at all). I thought it would be interesting to hear what others thought was UK’s best approach to building a roster in today’s climate.

 

[cats2010]

Many of the 4 star kids are much better overall basketball players than sone of the 5 star kids. We have had some tremendously bad 5 stars in this program under Cal that were absolutely dreadful here. Whitney and Boston come to mind. Boston at least did possess some basketball skills, Whitney was one of the worst players I have ever seen wear a UK Jersey and that includes walk-ons.

 

[U Go UK]

They win championships with that plan.

 

[Doodah859]

No, just like everyone else, they are obviously trying to supplement what they have, with one or two 5* kids.

How is this hard to understand?

You don't think they're trying to sign the best players every year

 

[susan2361]

Because Bill Self, like most college coaches, knows that you have to develop your own players to win in today's game and it's working.

4* kids don't have a one-and-done mindset, so it's a really good plan. I can't wait until we have a coach that thinks that way. I'm tired of rental players that don't give a rip about UK.

Yes, yes and yes!!!!! I agree!!!!!

 

[Juvellino]

Kentucky should be doing the same thing. Unless you are getting Anthony Davis or John Wall level players there are no differences between 4 and 5 star recruits. The recruiting sites are just doing the best they can and sometimes are doing favors to schools, shoe companies and handlers when ranking players. Like everything else in college sports, the rankings are sometimes dirty and dishonest. Ultimately, 4 stars stay in school longer and we are Kentucky, we should be letting other schools develop players for us as well and sign them in the transfer portal. While also signing top one and done players. Cal has created a culture where boarder line 5 stars think they are Anthony Davis. Cal isn’t “players first”. He’s only “players first” if you’ll be a lottery pick. There are a few exceptions but most of the lottery picks would have been lottery picks with any coach. Cal shouldn’t be taking credit for a top 5 recruit getting drafted high.

 

[jwhkchawk]

KU fan input:

Even though the NCAA investigation didn’t kill us (and that’s not the point of my comment I promise), it did impact our ability to recruit. We couldn’t compete like we previously could for the top classes after the Dotson/Grimes/McCormack class. Our recruiting has been quite frankly not good and we’ve got lucky that a few of our players who were almost busts coming out of high school (McCormack for example) stuck around to play big roles for us later. It’s why our roster turnover with transfers has been so high—we are telling dudes “you aren’t KU good” and showing them the door like this off-season mass exodus.

The other guys that came were the local kids that stuck around home, or grew up loving KU. And we just hit a stretch of them actually developing and panning out better than anyone could have imagined (Agbaji, Braun, Dejuan Harris all local, Dick and Wilson fans growing up).

To have them all overlap I think was pure luck but added something to their drive to get better. Also why I love college sports.

The transfer portal has honestly saved our lives as much as any program too.

 

[Fox2monk]

KU fan input:

Even though the NCAA investigation didn’t kill us (and that’s not the point of my comment I promise), it did impact our ability to recruit. We couldn’t compete like we previously could for the top classes after the Dotson/Grimes/McCormack class. Our recruiting has been quite frankly not good and we’ve got lucky that a few of our players who were almost busts coming out of high school (McCormack for example) stuck around to play big roles for us later. It’s why our roster turnover with transfers has been so high—we are telling dudes “you aren’t KU good” and showing them the door like this off-season mass exodus.

The other guys that came were the local kids that stuck around home, or grew up loving KU. And we just hit a stretch of them actually developing and panning out better than anyone could have imagined (Agbaji, Braun, Dejuan Harris all local, Dick and Wilson fans growing up).

To have them all overlap I think was pure luck but added something to their drive to get better. Also why I love college sports.

The transfer portal has honestly saved our lives as much as any program too.

Yeah that’s true, you all have had what looked like big holes in the roster every year recently and then someone like Wilson goes off and becomes an AA. It’s pretty amazing the luck or eye for talent(in the future) that staff has had.

 

[Fox2monk]

Many of the 4 star kids are much better overall basketball players than sone of the 5 star kids. We have had some tremendously bad 5 stars in this program under Cal that were absolutely dreadful here. Whitney and Boston come to mind. Boston at least did possess some basketball skills, Whitney was one of the worst players I have ever seen wear a UK Jersey and that includes walk-ons.

Cal and the staff rarely missed on most prospects until around 2019, after that class they missed on a ton of projections.

 

[K_TIME]

So in summary Kansas is not the top program just because they finally won it once year before last, nor do their players stick around any more than ours do.

Well they did win it 2022 while we were flaming out first round

Kansas has been a 1 seed, 1 seed, 4 seed, 3 seed , 1 seed, 1 seed , 1 seed, 1 seed, 2 seed and 2 seed going into ncaa rhe last ten years

Cal has gotten a 1 seed one time in the past ten years. He’s also missed the tournament once as well in past ten years. We’ve been a six seed , 8 seed and five seed in the past ten year

One coach is clearly outperforming another ….so I’d lay off Kansas a bit

 

[kyjeff1]

You don't think they're trying to sign the best players every year

Uhh yeah, but to them, their definition of "very best players", are guys they know they can develope + a couple of difference makers that can step in and play right now.

Our definition of "very best players" is potential draft picks, guys that Cal only wants to stick around for 1 year and who can jump the highest.

If you were running a program, which method would you go with?

 

[Sparkaces1]

The OP said "mostly". It's right in the thread title. He didn't say "only".

He had that Wiggins kid and that Embiid kid on the same team, I think they were pretty highly rated lol!

 

[kyjeff1]

He had that Wiggins kid and that Embiid kid on the same team, I think they were pretty highly rated lol!

What's your point? Wiggins and Embiid played at KU a long time ago.

Yes, at one time, Self went after one-and-done players, but he went away from that many years ago. We're talking about the present.

 

[Padsfs07]

Kansas is actively recruiting Bidunga and Tre Johnson from the 2024 class as well. That will hit hard if they manage to get both of them over us.

 

[Sparkaces1]

What's your point? Wiggins and Embiid played at KU a long time ago.

Yes, at one time, Self went after one-and-done players, but he went away from that many years ago. We're talking about the present.

They are trying to get the top recruit this year too lol. He is still going after top guys that's the point, maybe he has struck out the last couple of years but doesn't mean he hasn't tried.