Why SEC football is down -ESPN radio

[NewWildcatOrder]

Was listening to ESPN radio early this morning and they had Cole Cubelic on as a guest to address why the SEC as a conference has been down lately (moreso than previous years with the exception of Bama).

He said that coaches in the SEC have more responsibilities than coaches in other conferences what with all of their speaking engagements and public engagements in addition to their coaching duties (including clinics and camps). He felt that a recent trend to hire coaches that lacked those extra experiences (Malzahn, Sumlin, and Freeze were mentioned as examples), contributed to the failure or drop off for programs that were traditionally powers in the conference.

These circumstances would apply to our coach, however, I believe he had the benefit of having coached beside his brother and having the benefit albeit indirectly of his brother's experience gladhanding boosters, fund raising, and making all of the appearances required of a bigtime college coach. You may disagree, but I think this may have been of benefit to our program. He may not have expected everything that was involved, but I'd venture to guess he had a good idea what he was getting himself into, and anyway...where were we going to find the seasoned veteran coach who would patiently do the building while representing the program in a manner in which we could all be proud?

 

[KYNC89]

Everybody wants to be alabama. But they can't and they never will. Get rid of coaches left and right for winning 9 games. Hiring losers like mushchamp and guys that don't belong like orgeeon. The lists go on and on. Sec is still perhaps the best top to bottom but big ten has the majority of consistent top 10-15 teams. I wish it was different but it is what it is.

 

[VikingsCat]

I think the more interesting question is.
If Tennessee, LSU, Texas A&M are down and Kentucky, Vanderbilt and Mississippi State are up.

Is the SEC really down? Or is it just the perception that the known names are down, that makes the talking heads say this?

 

[KYNC89]

I think the more interesting question is.
If Tennessee, LSU, Texas A&M are down and Kentucky, Vanderbilt and Mississippi State are up.

Is the SEC really down? Or is it just the perception that the known names are down, that makes the talking heads say this?

You do have a point. But they are focused too much on being bama to run a football program

 

[K_TIME]

Everybody wants to be alabama. But they can't and they never will. Get rid of coaches left and right for winning 9 games. Hiring losers like mushchamp and guys that don't belong like orgeeon. The lists go on and on. Sec is still perhaps the best top to bottom but big ten has the majority of consistent top 10-15 teams. I wish it was different but it is what it is.

Agreed...our bigger schools have hired some odd coaches that were not hottest guys when hired.

- UT Dooley and Butch Jones...could not get a bigger name than those two.
- UF Muschamp was a hot name at the time but even McElwain was a weird hire...what huge downgrades from Urban Meyer.
- USC recycles Muschamp...why?
- LSU Les Miles was fine...but why Orgeron?

I know timing is unique...but why let James Franklin get away if you are a bigger SEC school, why is all passing on Dan Mullen, make a run at Chip Kelly, lure Mike Dantoni away from Mich St, etc.. Will Muschamp and Ed Orgeron just got jobs in last two year over all those guys and more..

 

[Mills_for_Three]

Its all about the coaches who have been hired by the traditional powerhouses like UF, UT, Auburn, LSU, etc. When the coach of Mississippi State is arguably the second best coach in the league---then some of these big time football schools are doing it wrong. I hate Mullen probably more than any other coach in the league, he is a pompous jackass, and for the life of me I can't understand why a bigger school like an LSU or Auburn hasn't pulled him away from State where he doesn't have to recruit JCs and lesser known guys to stay relevant.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Was listening to ESPN radio early this morning and they had Cole Cubelic on as a guest to address why the SEC as a conference has been down lately (moreso than previous years with the exception of Bama).

He said that coaches in the SEC have more responsibilities than coaches in other conferences what with all of their speaking engagements and public engagements in addition to their coaching duties (including clinics and camps). He felt that a recent trend to hire coaches that lacked those extra experiences (Malzahn, Sumlin, and Freeze were mentioned as examples), contributed to the failure or drop off for programs that were traditionally powers in the conference.

These circumstances would apply to our coach, however, I believe he had the benefit of having coached beside his brother and having the benefit albeit indirectly of his brother's experience gladhanding boosters, fund raising, and making all of the appearances required of a bigtime college coach. You may disagree, but I think this may have been of benefit to our program. He may not have expected everything that was involved, but I'd venture to guess he had a good idea what he was getting himself into, and anyway...where were we going to find the seasoned veteran coach who would patiently do the building while representing the program in a manner in which we could all be proud?

Not much truth in that, every coach has those same conferences and engagements written into their contracts. Now for new head coaches it might be a shock, but don't for a second think bigtime head coaches don't have to rub elbows with boosters on the banquet circuits and do their conferences after games and practices. Having a brother who is a head coach might help a little, but head coaches are pretty sharp guys for the most part, they know whats involved besides actual coaching and they know what they need to be successful. Stoops looked at UK's facilities and knew improvement was needed and most likely wanted assurances before he came on board. Smart demanded improvements be made in facilities and the AD had been told to give him what he asked for or he was the next to go,

I think the biggest thing is teams trying to compete with Bama and teams going through head coaches like GAs. Stoops and Butch Jones are the 2 oldest coaches in the East in terms of years at school with 5. The West is a little better, but not much and may have 4 new coaches next year, 5 if LSU can afford the buyout and 6 if Arky is tired of Belima. Coaching turnover happens in every conference, but Mark Richt and Les Miles won alot of games and both were replaced, SOS at one time was the best, Meyer is near Saben on the chart. 3 of those were replaced with first time head coaches, 1 didn't work out at all, jury is still out on 2 and SOS was replaced by the one that didn't work out. Its more about the coaching that all the other things.

 

[Zakk Wyldcat]

1. Terrible to average head coaches

2. Average at-best QBs

3. Alabama recruiting is monopolizing the elite talent year after year

IMO

 

[Phil McKracken]

It is definitely coaching hires that have caused the decent of the league. LSU, Auburn, TN, FL, Ark, S. Carolina, have made some odd choices for hires and now all of these programs are suffering to some degree.

 

[southindycat]

It's not just the odd choices... it's the turnover... the meat grinder coaching environment. Lack of continuity and stability is beginning to tell. Several SEC programs are basically toxic.

 

[gobigblue812]

Everybody wants to be Alabama and have a Saban for a coach. The problem is, it's not going to happen. As schools put more unrealistic expectations on these coaches and fire them left and right it will become more difficult to get quality coaches at these schools.

 

[PhattyJ4UK]

another conference has won the title once in his mAny years?

I think I'll wait for a little less success before crowning anyone but the SEC

 

[KYNC89]

another conference has won the title once in his mAny years?

I think I'll wait for a little less success before crowning anyone but the SEC

I think you are missing it and there lies your problem. Just because Alabama is the best in the country doesn't mean the conference is the best as of now. Alabama is and will always be Alabama. The pride and joy of the sec. the rest of the conference though this year is quite average save Georgia and Mississippi state.

 

[SwampMaster]

Everybody trying to be like Saban, hiring his protoges, but they ain't Saban. The East cant coach and Mullen's prob the best in the West not named Saban. LSU made a horrible mistake in Orgeron. The SEC is in for some down years.

 

[catsfanbgky]

I think some of it is, a lot of the SEC or SEC talent has decided not to wait behind other elite talent. So you have a few little schools (think South Florida as one) that have taken away some players that would go to some of these schools.

So in short, everyone else is cheating and getting some of the elite talent away from SEC schools. So recruiting is hurting the league, then coaches are fired and lesser are hired.

 

[Bubs72]

I think coaching has played a part in it, I also think that several schools will be looking after this year and next. I think Jones is done at UT, McElwain probably won't get but a few more years at UF. Muschamp at SC? Still trying to figure that one out. I think Kirby will do well at Georgia, and I can't figure Arkansas out. I really thought Bielema would do well there, but maybe to many holes to fill after Petrino left.
I also think other programs are making in roads to the recruiting hotbeds of the South and that makes the conference weaker. Clemson, FSU, Ohio State, all of these coaches and programs recruit really well down here. Bama is always going to get the top of the top, but when they miss, those teams are there to scrape up what is left. I think between Dabo and Kirby they will shut down any kids leaving the state of Georgia.

 

[bthaunert]

The SEC being down has directly coincided with the rise of the Big 10. The Big 10 has 4 traditionally strong programs in Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Nebraska. Those 4 schools have 3 of the best coaches in the country (Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin), while the 4th chases the Tom Osborne glory days. As for the SEC, since 2012 (when Urban was hired at Ohio State), the 3 best hires in the SEC have probably been Brett Beliema, Gus Malzhan and Jim McElwain...not exactly a stellar list.
.

 

[southindycat]

The SEC being down has directly coincided with the rise of the Big 10. The Big 10 has 4 traditionally strong programs in Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Nebraska. Those 4 schools have 3 of the best coaches in the country (Meyer, Harbaugh, Franklin), while the 4th chases the Tom Osborne glory days. As for the SEC, since 2012 (when Urban was hired at Ohio State), the 3 best hires in the SEC have probably been Brett Beliema, Gus Malzhan and Jim McElwain...not exactly a stellar list.
.

I'd wait a few games before laying down my top three SEC hires since 2012. I know one guy I like a lot more than the first and last you listed, and the second is looking flakier by the day.

 

[UnfrozenCatfanLawyer]

Coaching in the SEC - and taking on Nick Saban - almost killed Urban Meyer. It's not the easiest thing in the world.

 

[bthaunert]

I'd wait a few games before laying down my top three SEC hires since 2012. I know one guy I like a lot more than the first and last you listed, and the second is looking flakier by the day.

All I am saying is to date, these are the 3 best hires, in terms of success.

 

[southindycat]

All I am saying is to date, these are the 3 best hires, in terms of success.

Well, fair enough. For now.

 

[NewWildcatOrder]

I'm not sure what would make an SEC coaches job more demanding than a coach from another conference. Cole Cubelic seemed to think that was the case, at least that was the reason he gave why unseasoned coaches found it rough going in the conferences strongholds.

 

[Poetax]

I think the more interesting question is.
If Tennessee, LSU, Texas A&M are down and Kentucky, Vanderbilt and Mississippi State are up.

Is the SEC really down? Or is it just the perception that the known names are down, that makes the talking heads say this?

Very true, even though it hasn't happened a lot here in the SEC, the saying "what goes around comes around," still applies.

 

[Tskware]

I think you are missing it and there lies your problem. Just because Alabama is the best in the country doesn't mean the conference is the best as of now. Alabama is and will always be Alabama. The pride and joy of the sec. the rest of the conference though this year is quite average save Georgia and Mississippi state.

SEC is definitely down, e.g., TCU creams Arkansas; Clemson sacks Auburn 11 times; Purdue crushes Missouri; Michigan crushes Florida; UCLA comes back from dead vs. A&M, etc.

But I honestly think the total dominance by Alabama over the SEC has diminished the conference somewhat. It would be better for the league as a whole if Bama could be beaten more than once in a blue moon by SEC teams, and even be relegated to a non BCS bowl game, think it would help the competitive balance of the league for more teams to compete for the championship (and yes, I would say the same thing about SEC basketball)

 

[bballcat4]

All this points to the fact that now is the time for UK to move up the pecking order in the SEC. Spurrier took SC up a few notches. (Unfortunately, he was 1-2 years late on retirement.) Mullen has taken MissSt up the pecking order. They both have down years, but they're still perceived as middle of the pack teams that can pop up once every 3-4 years and make a run for conference.

Realistically, I'd be happy if Stoops can get us at 7-8 consistent wins a year with a 9-10 win season once every 3-4 years. If you're still in the hunt to make it to Atlanta going into last 2 conference games then you're going to a good bowl. If we make it to Atlanta then you're going to a great bowl. (It's just been Ga & Fla except for the Missouri flash. Spurrier had SC there a couple times.). Win in Atlanta and you're probably in playoffs.

The SEC is still the premier conference. UK, Vandy and MissSt used to be the conference cupcakes. Now is a good opportunity for us to continue climbing the ladder. 4-4 was great last year. 5-3 or 6-2 this year would be great and ahead of schedule.

 

[WildCard]

He said that coaches in the SEC have more responsibilities than coaches in other conferences what with all of their speaking engagements and public engagements in addition to their coaching duties (including clinics and camps). He felt that a recent trend to hire coaches that lacked those extra experiences (Malzahn, Sumlin, and Freeze were mentioned as examples), contributed to the failure or drop off for programs that were traditionally powers in the conference.

Good Lord! He said that? And he is supposed to be a "SEC media analyst"? I'm embarrassed for him. Well, no, not really.

There are 6 historically strong programs in the SEC (AL, LSU & AU in the west, GA, TN and FL in the east). One of the things that has made the SEC divisional split so successful heretofore has been very good competitive balance between the east and west. However, in recent years the east has basically fallen apart with national demise of FL and TN. Furthermore the west side owns a huge head to head advantage.

As Tskware noted, I think AL's Bear like success under Saban has had an enormous impact on the other powers. Saban took over in 2007 and has pretty well dominated the Conference since 2008. In 10 years at AL Saban has gone 119-19 and absolutely dominated SEC play. Not unlike UCLA in the Wooden era.

The other powers have tried to catch up to AL with multiple new hires thus resulting in a lot of change within those programs. Change that has not only failed to bring the desired results but perhaps weakened these storied programs. Since 2007, Saban's first year at AL...

• AU is on their 3rd coach

• LSU got tired of waiting for Miles to win another NC and just made a huge coaching mistake. For the record LSU had 8 coaches in the 25 years between firing Cholly Mac and hiring Les Miles

• FL is on their 3rd coach, second since Meyer left after 2010 season

• TN has had 3 coaches since Fulmer was let go after his 5-7 season in 2008

• GA (the most consistent team in the east) finally decided Mark Richt, I believe the winningest active coach in the SEC, could not get the job done.

Peace

 

[NewWildcatOrder]

Well I do have to give it to Cole at least in this respect - no other conference has a Hoover. More media credentials alone are issued for this single week than other conferences probably have total attendees for their media kickoff to football season. Everything is bigger in the SEC, so it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say there are more demands on SEC coaches. While coaches from other conferences might be required to perform the same tasks it's probably not to the extent seen in the Godfather of conferences.

 

[UKWinsAgainYep]

Everybody trying to be like Saban, hiring his protoges, but they ain't Saban. The East cant coach and Mullen's prob the best in the West not named Saban. LSU made a horrible mistake in Orgeron. The SEC is in for some down years.

I can't believe LSU hired Orgeron. That guy is a joke.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I have did some more thinking on why the SEC is so down and Bama may be more responsible than I first thought. Its a combination of things, with all the coaching hires being made, the top coaches looking to move up from group of 5 schools to P5 schools are avoiding the SEC and SEC, Brohm, Fuentes, Herman and the SEC schools have had to settle on less successful head coaches or coordinators. The lone exception is Bilema at Arkansas and they want him gone. Now that isn't saying all these coordinators are going to fail, but they aren't going to become elite head coaches in one season either. The conference has just been overwhelmed with new coaches the last 5 years I think every school except Bama and State during that timeframe have new coaches

 

[irishcat1965]

SEC is definitely down, e.g., TCU creams Arkansas; Clemson sacks Auburn 11 times; Purdue crushes Missouri; Michigan crushes Florida; UCLA comes back from dead vs. A&M, etc.

But I honestly think the total dominance by Alabama over the SEC has diminished the conference somewhat. It would be better for the league as a whole if Bama could be beaten more than once in a blue moon by SEC teams, and even be relegated to a non BCS bowl game, think it would help the competitive balance of the league for more teams to compete for the championship (and yes, I would say the same thing about SEC basketball)

Then you can say the Big Ten is also down. Ohio State gets embarrassed at home by Oklahoma. Northwestern loses to Duke. Nebraska loses to Northern Illinois. Illinois gets destroyed by South Florida. The Big 12? West Virginia loses to VT. Texas loses to Maryland. Baylor is winless. Kansas St. loses to Vandy. Iowa State loses to Iowa. It's all relative.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Then you can say the Big Ten is also down. Ohio State gets embarrassed at home by Oklahoma. Northwestern loses to Duke. Nebraska loses to Northern Illinois. Illinois gets destroyed by South Florida. The Big 12? West Virginia loses to VT. Texas loses to Maryland. Baylor is winless. Kansas St. loses to Vandy. Iowa State loses to Iowa. It's all relative.

Against the other P5 conference the SEC is 6-6 I believe, 2 of those were against independents ND and BYU and 2 of the others were fluke wins. AU, UF, A&M, OM, Ark and Missouri lost the big OOC game, while Carolina and UT got real lucky and won theirs, LSU and UGA beat the 2 indpendents, Vandy and Bama won. That isn't how things were going 5 years ago.

 

[irishcat1965]

Against the other P5 conference the SEC is 6-6 I believe, 2 of those were against independents ND and BYU and 2 of the others were fluke wins. AU, UF, A&M, OM, Ark and Missouri lost the big OOC game, while Carolina and UT got real lucky and won theirs, LSU and UGA beat the 2 indpendents, Vandy and Bama won. That isn't how things were going 5 years ago.

No way it was going to continue like it was 5 years ago. Everything runs in cycles. The conference is still very good compared to the other ones.

 

[hmt5000]

I believe it's an inferiority complex to saban and bama that has schools punting on these hc hires instead of going for a homerun.

Weird to see so many below avg coaches in the sec. Other p5 schools probably wouldn't hire but 6 sec coaches right now. Fl, utee, lsu, a&m, scar, and auburn all have the money, talent base and fan support to draw a good coach but they hired guys that UK, msu and vandy typically get... and the 3 of us got decent to really good coaches.

Just weird time in the sec.

 

[truebluewildcat]

SEC is not down.

That's just some agenda being pushed by the ACC and Big 10 leaning networks who want and need to stir up more interest in the programs that they cover.

People like to say "well the sec only has bama....weh..." as if every other conference has half a dozen BCS contenders. They don't. All P5s have about 2 big dog top tier BCS caliber teams.

All you need to know about the mighty ACC is that UL an inner city commuter school and former CUSA, Big East, AAC program is winning 7 games a season in that conference and absolutely embarrassed one of it's mighty pillars last year. Outside of Clemson, nothing interesting or remotely competitive is happening in the ACC. LJ puts up basketball scores and heisman stats all by himself against 90% of the ACC.

The problem with the SEC is that there are not interesting story lines with characters whose names are recognizable. Just plain old football. We can all probably name more coaches and players from other conferences.

SEC doesn't have a trifecta of coaching like Harbaugh, Franklin, Meyer. There are not two top tier pretty NFL QBs like Rosen or Darnold. We don't have a Heisman winner who literally carries a team, or a Dabo. No young up and coming studs with potent offenses like Herman or Reilly.

We have grumpy old nick saban and his coaching tree growing throughout the conference.

What folks don't see because they are too caught up with the glitz and glam headlines of the other conferences, is that it's a damn dog fight in the SEC. What they don't see is the east is going to be a gravel lot brawl every saturday, and UK or vandy could just as easily win it as UF or UGA. In the West, outsiders may only see Bama who will inevitably win it but right under them is a free for all between 4 programs who will be in a slug fest for second.

The sports media and talking heads are for some reason mistaking parity and depth for a struggling conference.

 

[ManitouDan]

Hard to believe the love going the b!G Tin's way .. Ok they are no longer horrible , and have moved all the way up to average , but this " SEC is down " chatter is Over Rated ... after all no one is dominant in sports forever and ever , all great dynasty's come to a close , but Bama is still taking on all comers and kicking butt . Just because penn st is no longer a doormat doesnt mean the conference is much better , Heck MSU is way down compare to 2-3 years ago , and you still have Rutgers and Maryland .

 

[Tskware]

For the record, I never said anything about the ACC or the Big 10, just stated the obvious, SEC from top to bottom is not as strong right now as it has been in the recent (last 20 years) past. Things do go in cycles, it happens

 

[The-Hack]

The sports media and talking heads are for some reason mistaking parity and depth for a struggling conference.

Yes. The media says the SEC is down because Bama is so dominant in the West . . . . yet because there is no dominant force in the East, the SEC is down.

Right.

I'll give 'em this: the SEC record since 2014 against OOC competition has slipped, including a losing record for the SEC in the bowls/playoffs, last season.

But the trend of recruiting talented players, and then turning out the most NFL draftees, has only increased . . . .

Hey, it makes for good copy . . . . especially if your readers are in the mid-west or on the left coast, but its only so much BS.

 

[Gary4UK]

Agreed...our bigger schools have hired some odd coaches that were not hottest guys when hired.

- UT Dooley and Butch Jones...could not get a bigger name than those two.
- UF Muschamp was a hot name at the time but even McElwain was a weird hire...what huge downgrades from Urban Meyer.
- USC recycles Muschamp...why?
- LSU Les Miles was fine...but why Orgeron?

I know timing is unique...but why let James Franklin get away if you are a bigger SEC school, why is all passing on Dan Mullen, make a run at Chip Kelly, lure Mike Dantoni away from Mich St, etc.. Will Muschamp and Ed Orgeron just got jobs in last two year over all those guys and more..

One day the Stoops of coaching will be the big names... Oh! you know what I mean... The Mark Stoops...

 

[WildCard]

FWIW, in my earlier post I was so wrapped up in Cubelik's non-sensical explanation of "why the SEC is down" I did not address the issue of whether it is down or not. The SEC is not down, it is merely different. You have to look at things over a period of time and not just over a few years. And you need a "standard" for measurement. I believe an AP Top 25 finish is a decent measurement.

Over the past 10 years (2007-2016) the SEC had 50 AP Top 25 finishes by 11 teams.
Over the prior 10 years (1997-2006) the SEC had 44 AP Top 25 finishes by 7 teams.

​

(I did not count aTm and Mizzou as they spent most of their time in the Big XII-II.)

What I see here is a different kind of "good". Some of the "haves" are down but some of the "have nots" are up. Consider...

GA finished top 10 every year 1997-2006 but has only 5 such finishes the past 10 years. Conversely, AL had only 3 Top 25 finishes in the earlier decade but had 9 Top 25 finishes in the recent decade. SC, AR, MSU and Vandy had no Top 25 finishes in the early decade 10 year but have 4, 2, 2 and 2 respectively in the recent decade. IOW, a different kind of "good".

The SEC is (and will always be) a good conference but, right now, other conferences, to their credit, are "closing the gap" thus making the SEC look "down". JMO

Peace

 

[UKUGA]

I think the big issue is the top coaches who have left the conference.

Spurrier retire
Les Miles (retire?)
Meyer is at OSU
Franklin went to PSU
Richt to Miami


While the reasons for these departures are varied, you can see the positive impacts the latter 3 are having elsewhere, while their former teams (other than Vandy) have yet to replicate the success they were having when these coaches were having their peak success at the SEC school.