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Where does Calipari rank among UK all-time coaches?

Where do you rank Calipari among UK all-time coaches?


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ABlockalypseBrow

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May 26, 2018
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I’m curious to see where others think Calipari stands - as of now - among all-time UK coaches. Personally I have him tied with Joe B at 3rd, but since there’s several coaches with only 1 title I can see some debate.

Feel free to post your full list if you’d like.

*I didn’t include 1st or 6th as options to discourage troll votes.
 
3rd with a stagnant- downward trajectory.

Edit- I’m not foolish nor are the other fans who criticize John Calipari these days. His first several years were incredibly successful (despite the NIT loss to Robert Morris). But since 2015 it’s been heading downwards unfortunately.

Bobby Knight also had an incredible career in the beginning.... and Denny Crum... etc.
 
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There's a clear top 3. Neither Tubby nor Eddie nor Joe B are in the discussion.

Rupp is clearly first.

So it's between Rick and Cal. Cal's first 6 years were better than Rick's (tournament eligible) 6. One title, 4 final fours > one title, 3 final fours. I don't think either one could keep up that pace. We know that's true for Cal, as he's dipped after those 6 years. I suspect it would have been true for Rick - his recruiting was already started to take a hit, plus he's self-destructive anyway. But we don't know that for certain. In short, I would rank them as tied for second, but wouldn't argue with anyone ranking one over the other.
 
I think you can make arguments for either Cal and Pitino at the 2/3 spots, but we also have to see how Cal’s tenure ends.

If Cal gets a second title, he’ll be a clear #2, I think without that second title it will still leave debate between Cal and Pitino.
 
There's a clear top 3. Neither Tubby nor Eddie nor Joe B are in the discussion.

Rupp is clearly first.

So it's between Rick and Cal. Cal's first 6 years were better than Rick's (tournament eligible) 6. One title, 4 final fours > one title, 3 final fours. I don't think either one could keep up that pace. We know that's true for Cal, as he's dipped after those 6 years. I suspect it would have been true for Rick - his recruiting was already started to take a hit, plus he's self-destructive anyway. But we don't know that for certain. In short, I would rank them as tied for second, but wouldn't argue with anyone ranking one over the other.

I would argue Rick’s first 6 are better based on where he started and finished. The cupboard was truly bare for him. On top of that Rick left the program at an absolute high, based on how Tubby was able to win a title in his first year.

Then a fictional 6 year slump can’t be held against Pitino, that makes no sense to me. He could just as easily have won a 2nd title in 1998 and maybe even a 3rd.

To me it’s Rick solidly in 2nd for now. Cal can jump up there but only with title #2.
 
I would argue Rick’s first 6 are better based on where he started and finished. The cupboard was truly bare for him. On top of that Rick left the program at an absolute high, based on how Tubby was able to win a title in his first year.

Then a fictional 6 year slump can’t be held against Pitino, that makes no sense to me. He could just as easily have won a 2nd title in 1998 and maybe even a 3rd.

To me it’s Rick solidly in 2nd for now. Cal can jump up there but only with title #2.
That's a reasonable argument. You're right, we don't know that Rick would have tailed off. I'm just saying that each of them, during those 6 year runs, were at an altitude of achievement that is very very rare. Cal is one of only 3 coaches to go to 4 final fours in 6 years, for example. Those 2 periods represent, to me, 2 of the 3 high water marks in UK basketball history (along with late 40s/early 50s under Rupp). I'm just saying that, realistically, there's not much else to do but go down. Without even getting into Rick's by now well documented tendencies for self-destruction.

And yes, Rick took over the program at an all time low, it was decimated. But it's easy to forget that 41 point loss to Vandy during Clyde's final year - it's not like Cal took over in a period of excellence. And all of that is moot respecting Cal anyway - he completely overhauled the roster. We could been 0-29 in 2008-9 and it wouldn't have mattered, he still was adding Wall + Cousins etc.

But like I said earlier, if someone wants to put Rick second and Cal third, I'm not going to quibble with that.
 
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That's a reasonable argument. You're right, we don't know that Rick would have tailed off. I'm just saying that each of them, during those 6 year runs, were at an altitude of achievement that is very very rare. Cal is one of only 3 coaches to go to 4 final fours in 6 years, for example. Those 2 periods represent, to me, 2 of the 3 high water marks in UK basketball history (along with late 40s/early 50s under Rupp). I'm just saying that, realistically, there's not much else to do but go down. Without even getting into Rick's by now well documented tendencies for self-destruction.

And yes, Rick took over the program at an all time low, it was decimated. But it's easy to forget that 41 point loss to Vandy during Clyde's final year - it's not like Cal took over in a period of excellence. And all of that is moot respecting Cal anyway - he completely overhauled the roster. We could been 0-29 in 2008-9 and it wouldn't have mattered, he still was adding Wall + Cousins etc.

But like I said earlier, if someone wants to put Rick second and Cal third, I'm not going to quibble with that.

Fair points, but I wouldn’t agree he completely overhauled the roster. He had key starters/contributors from BCG/Tubby recruits in his first 3 years: PPat, Liggins, Harrelson, Miller.
 
Tied for 3rd with Joe B Hall. If his slide continues he can drop to 5th.
He’s barely treading water above Tubby at the moment.
Same amount of titles in more seasons.
And Tubby never missed the NCAAT while at UK!
 
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I am curious to hear who is second. Obviously, the Baron in brown is first, but would Pitino be second? If anything, Cal would be tied for second with Pitino. Both had similar rebuilds, except that Pitino's was probably more important. However, after Gillespie we were not anywhere close to being an elite program. Cal went to more final fours and I believe had a higher winning percentage. Not to mention winning what, 8 straight and dominating the dirty birds every year.
 
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If he goes another five seasons without a final four, going .500 against the top 25 and getting his ass kicked by Rick Barnes on a regular basis there won't be any meaningful difference in his tenure and Joe B. Hall's.

3rd right now and the lightning aint in the bottle.
 
I am curious to hear who is second. Obviously, the Baron in brown is first, but would Pitino be second? If anything, Cal would be tied for second with Pitino. Both had similar rebuilds, except that Pitino's was probably more important. However, after Gillespie we were not anywhere close to being an elite program. Cal went to more final fours and I believe had a higher winning percentage. Not to mention winning what, 8 straight and dominating the dirty birds every year.
Pitino never had a losing season.
Pitino never missed a NCAAT we were eligible to play in, while Cal has missed 2 now.
The shortcomings need to be counted as well as the success.
That‘s why Cal can very well end up 5th on the list!
 
I am curious to hear who is second. Obviously, the Baron in brown is first, but would Pitino be second? If anything, Cal would be tied for second with Pitino. Both had similar rebuilds, except that Pitino's was probably more important. However, after Gillespie we were not anywhere close to being an elite program. Cal went to more final fours and I believe had a higher winning percentage. Not to mention winning what, 8 straight and dominating the dirty birds every year.
In almost twice as many eligible years Cal went to only 1 more final four.
Rick’s win% at UK was I believe 81.4% to Cal’s 78.5% (so far).
And I rank beating up on little brother as not super important legacy-wise.
 
Pitino never had a losing season.
Pitino never missed a NCAAT we were eligible to play in, while Cal has missed 2 now.
The shortcomings need to be counted as well as the success.
That‘s why Cal can very well end up 5th on the list!

Pitino also never had to sustain success, we have no idea what his record would have looked like if he stayed.
 
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Pitino also never had to sustain success, we have no idea what his record would have looked like if he stayed.
True! We can only guess and I would guess Pitino would have at least 4 NC’s.
Pitino never missed the NCAAT in our eligible years.
Cal missed it 4 years into his tenure at UK.

If Cal has another season like the one we just had then he definitely moves to 5th on the list.
My money is on Cal missing at least one more NCAAT at UK and that can happen as soon as next season!
 
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I have him at 2. I do not believe he can go higher. It is possible he drops if his teams over the next few years do not compare with some of his better teams.
 
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True! We can only guess and I would guess Pitino would have at least 4 NC’s.
Pitino never missed the NCAAT in our eligible years.
Cal missed it 4 years into his tenure at UK.

If Cal has another season like one we just had then he definitely moves to 5th on the list.
My money is on Cal missing at least one more NCAAT at UK and that can happen as soon as next season!
I personally believe if RP stayed 5-10 more years he would have won in 98 and at minimum 1 more.
 
Pitino never had a losing season.
Pitino never missed a NCAAT we were eligible to play in, while Cal has missed 2 now.
The shortcomings need to be counted as well as the success.
That‘s why Cal can very well end up 5th on the list!
No way Cal is 5th on that list. Cal is at the very least 3rd. Pitino is the reason we all have to watch that damn shot every march from Laettner. He doesn't get brownie points for that. Also, how many points can we give Pitino for committing the ultimate treachery and going to UL? It's funny, everyone hated him for years and years until he took poor little Iona to the tourney. Now he is the best coach of all time.
 
No way Cal is 5th on that list. Cal is at the very least 3rd. Pitino is the reason we all have to watch that damn shot every march from Laettner. He doesn't get brownie points for that. Also, how many points can we give Pitino for committing the ultimate treachery and going to UL? It's funny, everyone hated him for years and years until he took poor little Iona to the tourney. Now he is the best coach of all time.
Cal is 3rd on the list but can fall to 5th the way he’s sliding.
No other coach in America outside Pitino could’ve taken that UK team and played Duke to a game winner that season.
That was the best Duke team ever and their best player had to play a perfect game. Shooting 100% from the field and free throw line.
The Laettner shot will haunt me forever. But without Pitino we wouldn’t have been playing that day let alone playing to a game winning shot!
 
There's a clear top 3. Neither Tubby nor Eddie nor Joe B are in the discussion.

Rupp is clearly first.

So it's between Rick and Cal. Cal's first 6 years were better than Rick's (tournament eligible) 6. One title, 4 final fours > one title, 3 final fours. I don't think either one could keep up that pace. We know that's true for Cal, as he's dipped after those 6 years. I suspect it would have been true for Rick - his recruiting was already started to take a hit, plus he's self-destructive anyway. But we don't know that for certain. In short, I would rank them as tied for second, but wouldn't argue with anyone ranking one over the other.
I disagree about Joe B. tell me what Cal has done to distance him from Joe B. Hall, both have one championship, Joe B has been to multiple final 4's like Cal.
 
I disagree about Joe B. tell me what Cal has done to distance him from Joe B. Hall, both have one championship, Joe B has been to multiple final 4's like Cal.

I agree it’s not clear cut to me between Joe B and Cal. Cal has one more final four (that also is his one extra EE) in I believe 2 less eligible years than Hall. That’s really the main thing, but you can weigh it against the losing season and call it a tie.

Some say win% but Hall never had as many or in many years any cupcakes on his schedule. Add 4 wins a year to Hall’s record and his win% is right with Cal’s.
 
There's a clear top 3. Neither Tubby nor Eddie nor Joe B are in the discussion.

Rupp is clearly first.

So it's between Rick and Cal. Cal's first 6 years were better than Rick's (tournament eligible) 6. One title, 4 final fours > one title, 3 final fours. I don't think either one could keep up that pace. We know that's true for Cal, as he's dipped after those 6 years. I suspect it would have been true for Rick - his recruiting was already started to take a hit, plus he's self-destructive anyway. But we don't know that for certain. In short, I would rank them as tied for second, but wouldn't argue with anyone ranking one over the other.
That's pretty much my feelings as well. Just not that much difference between Pitino and Calipari, or for that matter between Joe B and Tubby. So I'd have them as....

1 Rupp

2 Pitino/Calipari

3 Smith/Hall

then a long drop to

4 Gillispie

5 Sutton
 
I disagree about Joe B. tell me what Cal has done to distance him from Joe B. Hall, both have one championship, Joe B has been to multiple final 4's like Cal.
OK - then tell me how you distinguish between Joe B and Rick?

Rick: 3 final fours, 1 title
Joe B: 3 final fours, 1 title
 
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My money is on Cal missing at least one more NCAAT at UK and that can happen as soon as next season!
You understand using an exclamation point that way makes it seem like you're excited about the prospect, which might naturally make people wonder if you're hoping that happens.....
 
OK - then tell me how you distinguish between Joe B and Rick?

Rick: 3 final fours, 1 title
Joe B: 3 final fours, 1 title

I can’t answer for the poster but to me it’s primarily the time period they coached. Pitino coached 6 NCAA eligible seasons to Hall’s 13 and Cal’s 11 (and counting).

The conversion rate to me is a better measure than raw accomplishment totals. It’s why I’ve never seen Dean Smith as highly as say E!SPN does.
 
Those of you saying Calipari is less than Hall......Calipari got in the Hall of Fame mostly on the back of what he's done at Kentucky (4 of his 6 final fours and his only title). How is it then that Cal is in the Hall and Joe B is not? I don't think Hall has ever even been a finalist, or had much support - at all - to speak of. Joe B and Tubby were pretty similar.
 
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