I agree big time. But so far competitive for us has been one quarterfinal since the invention of the soccer ball. I think it might be the best we will ever do. I hope not, but we really have heard this story for a long time.
USMNT/Soccer Thread
- Thread starter BigBlueSean
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I agree big time. But so far competitive for us has been one quarterfinal since the invention of the soccer ball. I think it might be the best we will ever do. I hope not, but we really have heard this story for a long time.
The problem comes down to cultivating youth talent. In Europe and SA, talented youths are spotted by the age of like 5, and immediately moved to elite academies and farm systems that nurture and develop their talents (often at the expense of normal childhood development activities) to such a metric that these players are literally tailored to be footballers. Here in America, our best players almost always have been just from exceptional talents that took the recreational-travel clubs-high school-top tier university route. That's fine for domestic play, but you will never accomplish anything on a world-scale with that development route.
Luka Modrić is my favorite player for this World Cup. Awesome midfielder. Great leader.
You left out that a certain segment of the population is excluded from club play because of costs. The player goes to the tryout, if they know about it. If they can't afford it, they think why bother? Mexico does a better job identifying players in our own inner cities.
This is true to a certain extent, but pending on potential it finds a way to 'work itself out'. I came from a lower class background and received aid to play for a fairly elite midwestern travel club organization from the ages of eight-eighteen. The issue in your scenario is when those talents aren't spotted or evaluated properly, and, as you said, they are priced out of development.
But, you have to be playing first. If there are no opportunities to play in the city, big cities, like NYC, Chicago, LA, they're not getting the opportunities where Johnny's dad gets all the 1st graders to play right out of the gate. Get into any league and get noticed.
We have plenty of "athletes" who play soccer. The problem is that talented kids aren't identified and their skills cultivated at a young age. Club teams are too interested in winning to the detriment of developing players.
Where exactly in Milford? Down by the river @ the US 50 exit off I-275 or higher ground?
FCC's new practice facility, formerly Expressway Park(closed July 8.) Surrounded by I275/US50/Milford Pkwy/river.
Seemed so logical and convenient there. Surely cheaper than Hamilton County. Not sure about NKY. Maybe a wash. Danka.
The US does have some legitimate challenges, despite all of our advantages. Soccer isn't ingrained into our culture. In the US, some talented kids may play soccer a few hours a week in between other sports, video games, and a million other things they do. In Croatia/Uruguay/Brazil, etc they play soccer. Hours each day. Every single day. We can't really compete with that.
Secondly, our country is so big our best don't even get to know each other until they're well into their teens, if ever. I bet that Croatian team has known each other since before they were even double digits in age. You build chemistry that way.
Secondly, our country is so big our best don't even get to know each other until they're well into their teens, if ever. I bet that Croatian team has known each other since before they were even double digits in age. You build chemistry that way.
The soccer culture is just starting. We're just now getting to the point when kids are being raised by parents that played the game competitively.
I hear that having a great midfield is very critical to success to world cup soccer. What does the U.S midfield look like at the next world cup and how do you see it stacking up with the rest of the world?
Congrats to France - so much talent on that team, and nearly all of it is young talent.
For the US midfield, others likely know more than me, but I think we have a lot of talented youth.
Pulisic is obviously our best and he's world class. Weston McKennie is young and he'll definitely be in the mix. Tyler Adams, Many think Jonathan Gonzales is our best prospect, but I haven't seen him play much.
If they all progress, add them to Weah, Carter-Vickers, Sargent, Acosta, Taitague, and others, we're honestly looking good for 22 and really good for 26.
For the US midfield, others likely know more than me, but I think we have a lot of talented youth.
Pulisic is obviously our best and he's world class. Weston McKennie is young and he'll definitely be in the mix. Tyler Adams, Many think Jonathan Gonzales is our best prospect, but I haven't seen him play much.
If they all progress, add them to Weah, Carter-Vickers, Sargent, Acosta, Taitague, and others, we're honestly looking good for 22 and really good for 26.
France was the best team from top to bottom, and most of their stars are still relatively young, so they're going to be a force for the foreseeable future.
Now it's time for team USA to regroup, get some things figured out, and start preparing for Qatar in 2022.
Now it's time for team USA to regroup, get some things figured out, and start preparing for Qatar in 2022.
Referee 1st half was worse than Higgins. Don’t know if the moment was too big for him or it was just FIFA being FIFA.
But im happier with this loss than any other ive experienced as a fan. Just unfortunate had to be what it was, very bad for the game and the future of the gsme on many levels.
But im happier with this loss than any other ive experienced as a fan. Just unfortunate had to be what it was, very bad for the game and the future of the gsme on many levels.
I'm from there originally; we emigrated (not a refugee) when I was a kid and I grew up in KY then I spent most of my twenties there.
Croatia thoroughly outplayed them for a large part of the match. France just took advantage of its opportunities - just too many world class strikers.
We will learn a a lot about our young people as fast in fall of 2018.
We are coming off a draw at France and our next games are as follows
Brazil
Mexico
At England
Italy
Now sure, it probably won't be those teams all out A squads, but it will be good enough still to test our guys. Hopefully we have a new coach soon.
We are coming off a draw at France and our next games are as follows
Brazil
Mexico
At England
Italy
Now sure, it probably won't be those teams all out A squads, but it will be good enough still to test our guys. Hopefully we have a new coach soon.
They never get those opportunities, atleast not in the manner that they got them, if the referee doesn't gift them their first two goals.
Exciting for neutrals I guess, but would have been much better for the game of soccer if France's negative play was punished in the first half. If Croatia were leading 1-0 or 2-0 at half, France would've been forced to change tactics at the half and exert themselves and their talent more. If they did that and then won 4-2, then ok you deserve to win the title... but like this, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth irrespective of fan bias.
Exciting for neutrals I guess, but would have been much better for the game of soccer if France's negative play was punished in the first half. If Croatia were leading 1-0 or 2-0 at half, France would've been forced to change tactics at the half and exert themselves and their talent more. If they did that and then won 4-2, then ok you deserve to win the title... but like this, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth irrespective of fan bias.
While I preferred the underdogs, don't see why the first two goals were "gifts" vs. unforced errors. C chose to commit the own goal. On them. On 2nd, defender goes up with hand out, making himself bigger. Unfortunate fall of the ball to his hand, but it was out from his body. Should be disciplined enough to keep hand down/behind.
1st goal is a professional dive.
2nd goal is ball to hand and shouldn't be called, no matter position of hand which is natural position for jumping motion. Defender is not expected to have hands down in such a situation or react that quickly to offender's deflection , and it will be bad for the game going forward if referee's interpret rule in such manner, eventually it will have to be rewritten to be more in spirit of game of that's what happens.
2nd goal is ball to hand and shouldn't be called, no matter position of hand which is natural position for jumping motion. Defender is not expected to have hands down in such a situation or react that quickly to offender's deflection , and it will be bad for the game going forward if referee's interpret rule in such manner, eventually it will have to be rewritten to be more in spirit of game of that's what happens.
Then the error is compounded by it being VAR.
VAR should be there to right a clear wrong, which that wasn't anywhere close to be a clear wrong. It's only a clear penalty if that happens in the absence of offensive player making play on ball.
VAR should be there to right a clear wrong, which that wasn't anywhere close to be a clear wrong. It's only a clear penalty if that happens in the absence of offensive player making play on ball.
The foul that was called on the first goal is called 100% of the time and the Croatian defender fell into his trap. I am not sure how you fix it other than reviewing each match and fining people that take dives as everyone is trained to do what he did.
I think the handball should have been called. Perhaps a rules change is needed, but based upon the current rules, it's the correct call.
I think the handball should have been called. Perhaps a rules change is needed, but based upon the current rules, it's the correct call.
Jonathen Gonzalez cast his lot with Mexico a few months back; after having a debut in Liga MX as a 6 with Monterrey he has fallen down the depth chart with them and I don't think is even starting. His casting his lost with El Tri setoff weeks of recrimination with many in the Soccer Federation as it was deemed he simply wasn't approached and didn't even make one of the YN teams last year.
That said...geography and the dynamics of club soccer in America culture are major barriers for us that most other countries don't have. There is no question that the Red Bull and NYFC academies are churning out a lot of quality in their systems...and Tyler Adams is leaving the Red Bulls to go to Leipzig after this season. NYCFC prodigy Gio Reyna (who I believe just turned 16) sounds like he is being targeted by some of the Bundesliga upper echelon academies. Dallas FC is the gold standard in the US. Once upon a time Chivas in LA was another, but those kids were groomed for El Tri in many cases. Currently LA Galaxy has a deep pool of Mexican-Americans the best of which might be the most coveted teenager in the US in Efra Alvarez--who already is in the El Tri YNT as a 15 year old--and given LAFC is something of a deep pocketed version of Chivas the potential for them to challenge the two NY academies and Dallas FC is very real and an exciting prospect. But as long as they don't have a system of reimbursement for developing these kids as resources the USMNT will suffer if kids are stuck in the MLS system. Andrew Carlton at Atlanta is Exhibit A...signed as a 15 year old and a very cagey/dynamic 10 or False 9 not dissimilar to Clint Dempsey he doesn't get first team minutes at Atlanta, who doesn't want to feature him for fear he'll sign a contract in Europe when he turns 18 (just like Weston McKennie did with Schalke, and just like Josh Sargeant did with Werder Bremen). So they don't play him which is to nobody's benefit. He plays instead for a USL team affiliated with Atlanta.
Nah, referees are getting better at recognizing those sorts of dives and not calling them, particularly when they conveniently fall in such prime areas of the pitch. If it was say a player of Neymar's reputation and a better referee, it would 100% not be called.
And the handball call is actually pretty close to unjustifiable. Same bad logic could be even more effectively applied to this non call which also is not a handball and was correctly deemed not one after VAR.
And the handball call is actually pretty close to unjustifiable. Same bad logic could be even more effectively applied to this non call which also is not a handball and was correctly deemed not one after VAR.
I've watched both calls. I also referee many tournaments in Northern Kentucky
1st Incident - Its a free kick regardless. Griezmann baited the defender. Griezmann just happened to lose his footing (something you saw a lot of during the game) and the defender definitively did make contact with him. Regardless if he fully made Griezmann go down, its a foul nonetheless. Ref got that right.
Handball- In this World Cup, and by the letter of the law it is a handball. It is harsh and borderline unfair, but its a handball. The hand is not in a natural position. It is in a position that makes the defender bigger. The ball indeed makes contact with the hand. By the letter of the law, AND from a consistency basis for the entire tournament, its a handball.
Its is just breaks that fell France's way.... but they were correct. The disputable and larger incident to me was the pitch invasion which effectively stopped a Croatian counter attack.
France was the better side. The best side won.
1st Incident - Its a free kick regardless. Griezmann baited the defender. Griezmann just happened to lose his footing (something you saw a lot of during the game) and the defender definitively did make contact with him. Regardless if he fully made Griezmann go down, its a foul nonetheless. Ref got that right.
Handball- In this World Cup, and by the letter of the law it is a handball. It is harsh and borderline unfair, but its a handball. The hand is not in a natural position. It is in a position that makes the defender bigger. The ball indeed makes contact with the hand. By the letter of the law, AND from a consistency basis for the entire tournament, its a handball.
Its is just breaks that fell France's way.... but they were correct. The disputable and larger incident to me was the pitch invasion which effectively stopped a Croatian counter attack.
France was the better side. The best side won.
That particular handball is not a handball under the rules because it comes off of the same player. Very similar play occurred in Iran v. Portugal that it was handball because it came off of the opposing players head and hit the defenders hand. That's the way the rule is written.
I'm aware there is an argument you could make on both calls, but it's a weaker one and is out of touch with the reality of the game, and pretty much every talking head agrees with rare contrarian for the sake of being that exception.
THe game is also refereed entirely differently depending on level.
It's always better for the better team to have to prove it, the referee denied France that opportunity.
Also, I think the referee at half time realised the magnitude of his mistakes, he let on multiple occasions very clear croatian fouls to go uncalled.
THe game is also refereed entirely differently depending on level.
It's always better for the better team to have to prove it, the referee denied France that opportunity.
Also, I think the referee at half time realised the magnitude of his mistakes, he let on multiple occasions very clear croatian fouls to go uncalled.
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Referee decisions are always tough; at the highest level whether it be EuroCup, the European championships or the World Cup your margins in the Championship games are razor thin. In my personal opinion for the first 55 minutes of the match France was being outplayed...but had the 2-1 lead. The reason why they won the game and perhaps doubly so the Tournament was depth. The line breaking through ball from Pogba for about 60 yards to Mbappe on the right flank completely broke Croatia's shape and ultimately resulted in Pogba's goal after a brief glimpse of skill from Griezman. All of this came after Kante was lifted due to his playing cautiously with the yellow in the 26th minute and therein lies the difference between France and most of the rest of the field...they can work in someone for what may be the best 6 in the World. Croatia couldn't lift a Rakitic, obviously a Modric, a Perisic or a Lovren without a significant step back.
France has some players that do breathtaking things. That ball from Pogba to Mbappe is as high level as it gets.
France has some players that do breathtaking things. That ball from Pogba to Mbappe is as high level as it gets.
The sub of Nzonzi for Kante was brilliant. Never thought I would say that but the height of Nzonzi and his more rigid defensive positioning completely stopped Croatia from countering through the middle in the beginning of the 2nd half.
I think you see this world cup start a tad bit of a revolution in South America. The sport is being dominated by midfielders. South America is known for its attacking talent it contributes, but where they lack is the quality in the midfield. If I am Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay etc. I focus strongly on development of quality midfielders: Going into 2022 world cup its going to be 20 years since a South American winner.... crazy to think about
Just from a pure midfield perspective going forward with talent under the age of 26:
Brazil: Coutinho, Casemiro, Fabinho, Talisca, Fred, Rafinha, Allan, Fernando, Danilo, Wendel
Argentina: Lanzini, Paredes, Pereyra, Escalante, Lo Celso, Kranevitter, Ascacibar
Uruguay: Torreira, Vecino, Bentacur, Valverde, Nandez
Colombia: James Rodriguez, Barrios, Anor, Lerma
Chile is on the way down, its just looking like all the eggs for South America are in the Brazil basket for the time being. I do think if Argentina examines themselves much how Germany did after 2006 they could get it right.
Just from a pure midfield perspective going forward with talent under the age of 26:
Brazil: Coutinho, Casemiro, Fabinho, Talisca, Fred, Rafinha, Allan, Fernando, Danilo, Wendel
Argentina: Lanzini, Paredes, Pereyra, Escalante, Lo Celso, Kranevitter, Ascacibar
Uruguay: Torreira, Vecino, Bentacur, Valverde, Nandez
Colombia: James Rodriguez, Barrios, Anor, Lerma
Chile is on the way down, its just looking like all the eggs for South America are in the Brazil basket for the time being. I do think if Argentina examines themselves much how Germany did after 2006 they could get it right.
Better individual players, yes. Better side, not so much. Pretty even or tilts C's way imo.
Volkswagen can get pumped with that sorry you didn't make it America ad campaign.
This goal was incredible tho.
This goal was incredible tho.
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Probably the Tactical Decision of the tournament lies with Dechamps decision to bench the likes of huge name players in Dbrijil Sidibe and Benjamin Mendy and play Pavard (a CB converted to RB) and Lucas Hernandez at the fullback positions. Mendy and Sidibe are two FB who really push forward in the attack which makes them far more vulnerable to counter attacks and not anywhere near as solid defensively. Pavard and Hernandez are far more defensive minded which maintained their defensive shape far better. Brilliant decision by Dechamps.
