UK will never out recruit half the SEC

[Comebakatz3]

This is pretty amazing I must admit. I equate it to Stoops still gaining experience and in at least a small part - freaking bad luck. We shot ourselves in the foot vs UF and Ole Miss, but let's be honest, the ref's sure did us no favors either in those games. Take away that holding vs UF and we likely beat them on a FG. Take away that over-turned fumble and we beat Ole Miss. Although our final record will be better, there's been as much heart-break this season as any since 2002 and 2003 - the Bluegrass Nightmare vs LSU, 4th quarter collapse vs FL in Lorenzen's last year, 7 OT loss vs Arky.

I just don't think it should have came to that with either of those games. I think we have the talent and ability to run over and solidly beat both of those teams. Maybe not blow them out, but at least go out and get an arms length in front of them, like we did in both games, and keep the opponent at bay. Instead, we squandered the leads and ended up losing.

I also don't think the Tennessee and Eastern games should have been as close as they were. They shouldn't have been. 50/50 type games but we made them that. Still, I will give some credit in that we at least won most of those close games and in years past we'd have lost most of them. So, there is a bright spot to it in some degree.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Part of the recruiting problem is that KY high school football is really not very good and it has few really good coaches. Ky need more home grown talent. Being south of Ohio and north of southern football oriented states makes recruiting difficult. Even with Marrow’s great recruiting, we are still are one of the lowest ranked SEC schools. Can’t beat them if you can’t out-recruit them. It’s not the Xs and Os, it’s the Jimmies and Joes. We need more horses to compete at the upper levels.

Until than happens, UK will not compete for a league championship.

I think great coaches can get more out of their players even if they aren't ranked as highly. Look at James Franklin. Despite Vandy having poor SEC recruiting he had them winning 4 and 5 games in the SEC in just 3 years and had two 9 win seasons. Vandy was 2-10 the two years prior to his arrival and he got 6 wins in year one. So, he certainly wasn't hindered by not having the jimmies and Joes. That year he beat us by 30. Sure, he didn't compete for a league championship, but he didn't need 5+ years to completely change Vanderbilt football. Stoops has improved us, but I don't think he's a great coach to get us to another level. I'll be very happy to be wrong, but to me great coaches do what Franklin was able to do.

 

[point1zerorock]

I just don't think it should have came to that with either of those games. I think we have the talent and ability to run over and solidly beat both of those teams. Maybe not blow them out, but at least go out and get an arms length in front of them, like we did in both games, and keep the opponent at bay. Instead, we squandered the leads and ended up losing.

I also don't think the Tennessee and Eastern games should have been as close as they were. They shouldn't have been. 50/50 type games but we made them that. Still, I will give some credit in that we at least won most of those close games and in years past we'd have lost most of them. So, there is a bright spot to it in some degree.

I agree on UF. We gave it away. Still, could've been bailed out at the end with a little good fortune. I think I was one of the only fans I know very worried about Ole Miss. I feared their scoring ability greatly.

 

[Poetax]

I think great coaches can get more out of their players even if they aren't ranked as highly. Look at James Franklin. Despite Vandy having poor SEC recruiting he had them winning 4 and 5 games in the SEC in just 3 years and had two 9 win seasons. Vandy was 2-10 the two years prior to his arrival and he got 6 wins in year one. So, he certainly wasn't hindered by not having the jimmies and Joes. That year he beat us by 30. Sure, he didn't compete for a league championship, but he didn't need 5+ years to completely change Vanderbilt football. Stoops has improved us, but I don't think he's a great coach to get us to another level. I'll be very happy to be wrong, but to me great coaches do what Franklin was able to do.

His classes were ranked 50, 48, and 26, but he took great players that other schools wouldn’t take a chance on, much like how ul got successful.

 

[wildcat_bigd]

His classes were ranked 50, 48, and 26, but he took great players that other schools wouldn’t take a chance on, much like how ul got successful.

Well it’s time then

 

[jauk11]

Not sure his attitude affects UK's recruiting.

You can talk all you want about negativity from the fanbase affecting recruiting. Our play this season speaks volumes about the direction of the program. I.e. it isn't on an upward trajectory.

Stoops had the easiest schedule of any UK coach in memory, and this sorry shit is what we put on the field in year 5.

You all do understand that we will have a losing record next season, right?

Probably only a few of us, and I wouldn't want to live in their world, I would be afraid to get up in the morning. Both of our biggest stars may have played (not played) themselves into another year at UK and injuries may have done the same to Jones. Not that all three couldn't still be drafted and make a lot of money (I have no idea of their situation), just that they could improve their position a good deal by coming back-----and help UK a lot in the process. Still very talented players but I think we have some very talented young players coming up to replace them. And yes, I do think no matter how much I appreciate Stephen we will be OK at QB next year, possibly even more raw talent.

We lost to most of the teams that should be more talented this year, we WILL be more talented next year, and should beat the three OOC teams plus have a better chance of beating Transfer U without their Heisman winner-------unless he has to take a pay cut by going to the NFL, it isn't the same world as when UCLA's basketball players took a pay cut to go to the NBA, not many Sam Gilbert's around and players AND coaches make obscene wages legally now.

So, 3.5 OOC wins, at worse, we beat Vandy, and mizzou, (that probably loses a great QB AND have a new coach) and USC on the road this year and who knows what Florida and Thug U will do with new coaches, all we know is they went to hell this year.

We will be more experienced (including the coaches) AND more talented next year,especially the DL, problematical how much the opponents improve, I think your prediction of a five win season is just more garbage by the naysayers.,

 

[wildcat_bigd]

Probably only a few of us, and I wouldn't want to live in their world, I would be afraid to get up in the morning. Both of our biggest stars may have played (not played) themselves into another year at UK and injuries may have done the same to Jones. Not that all three couldn't still be drafted and make a lot of money (I have no idea of their situation), just that they could improve their position a good deal by coming back-----and help UK a lot in the process. Still very talented players but I think we have some very talented young players coming up to replace them. And yes, I do think no matter how much I appreciate Stephen we will be OK at QB next year, possibly even more raw talent.

We lost to most of the teams that should be more talented this year, we WILL be more talented next year, and should beat the three OOC teams plus have a better chance of beating Transfer U without their Heisman winner-------unless he has to take a pay cut by going to the NFL, it isn't the same world as when UCLA's basketball players took a pay cut to go to the NBA, not many Sam Gilbert's around and players AND coaches make obscene wages legally now.

So, 3.5 OOC wins, at worse, we beat Vandy, and mizzou, (that probably loses a great QB AND have a new coach) and USC on the road this year and who knows what Florida and Thug U will do with new coaches, all we know is they went to hell this year.

We will be more experienced (including the coaches) AND more talented next year,especially the DL, problematical how much the opponents improve, I think your prediction of a five win season is just more garbage by the naysayers.,

We’ll be about the same next year 7-8 wins

 

[jauk11]

I don't believe that all. Some schools sucked for years and they turned it around and started recruiting nationally.

Many players want to play for a program and not necessarily the home stage school.

Ohio St goes National as does Bama. Most every program that is good does that.

We had a bit of a pick up in recruiting by hiring the Stoops name even though most of his assistants you never heard of.

Big name coach, big name assistants, great facilities are all a recipe for success. Mostly the coach.

If we had been putting the kind of resources into football that we hav

UK didn't choose Rupp over The Bear, Bryant chose to leave. Bryant even said he regretted leaving... but go ahead and keep thinking UK ran him off.

Blanton Collier was fired for not winning enough yet he was a good enough coach to win 70% of his games in the NFL.

UK was a football power in the 50's? UK won 1 conference championship, tied for 2nd once, tied for 3rd once, 5th once, 6th twice, 7th once,9th once, 10th once and 12th once between 1950-1959. They were 30-34-1 in SEC play. Do "football powers" finish below 500 in their conferences?
UK had a good 3 year run from 49-51... even in '51 they "only" went 3-3 in conference play.

It is absolutely stupid to think that UK ever hired any less than the best coaches they thought they could get.

The problem with your last statement is that the best coaches they could get recently were way down the pecking list of desirable coaches------stealing the SEC COY (and Bear Bryant NCOTY) from a pretty good program was a very good hire on paper, his support here wasn't.

Coach Brooks saved mitch's A$$ when no self respecting coach wanted the job, and then I am sure he didn't get nearly the support he was promised. Kentucky has been a coach's graveyard for quite a while, Curci was successful by cheating, which he had to do to win here, but it cost us dearly in the long run, just like Basset hound did----And the powers that be, unlike Bama, added to that big setback by giving even less support to football.

 

[Black Diamond Cat]

Part of the recruiting problem is that KY high school football is really not very good and it has few really good coaches. Ky need more home grown talent. Being south of Ohio and north of southern football oriented states makes recruiting difficult. Even with Marrow’s great recruiting, we are still are one of the lowest ranked SEC schools. Can’t beat them if you can’t out-recruit them. It’s not the Xs and Os, it’s the Jimmies and Joes. We need more horses to compete at the upper levels.

Until than happens, UK will not compete for a league championship.

This is one of the best years in recent memory for HS football talent in Kentucky. With at least four 4* players and several high 3*s, and yet we have 0 commits from in state, they are going to Texas, West Virginia, Georgia Tech, Duke, Vandy etc.

 

[rqarnold]

I think great coaches can get more out of their players even if they aren't ranked as highly. Look at James Franklin. Despite Vandy having poor SEC recruiting he had them winning 4 and 5 games in the SEC in just 3 years and had two 9 win seasons. Vandy was 2-10 the two years prior to his arrival and he got 6 wins in year one. So, he certainly wasn't hindered by not having the jimmies and Joes. That year he beat us by 30. Sure, he didn't compete for a league championship, but he didn't need 5+ years to completely change Vanderbilt football. Stoops has improved us, but I don't think he's a great coach to get us to another level. I'll be very happy to be wrong, but to me great coaches do what Franklin was able to do.

So why didn’t Vandy go hire the next James Franklin?
And even James Franklin is only doing marginally better at Penn State than he did at Vandy with all of their resources.

 

[reflaine]

And didn't Vandy have a bunch of off field problems when Franklin was leaving? Can't honestly remember.

 

[reflaine]

This is one of the best years in recent memory for HS football talent in Kentucky. With at least four 4* players and several high 3*s, and yet we have 0 commits from in state, they are going to Texas, West Virginia, Georgia Tech, Duke, Vandy etc.

And how many of those programs are just big national power houses right now. Texas has been down for pretty much a decade, wvu hasn't been lighting it up since going to big 12.

The others are teams we all agree obtain much lower talent then we do.

Not saying those kids are bad football players, it just because you get a high rating don't always equal success. Elam was a five star by one recruiting service, and we all know how far off that was.

When we sign a four star player out of Ohio, we have a fair share of posters complain about the difference between Florida four stars and Ohio four stars. That we can't win without recruiting the south.

How would a four star Kentucky kid, against the HS compition here be able to build a football team even if we signed those players.

 

[Black Diamond Cat]

And how many of those programs are just big national power houses right now. Texas has been down for pretty much a decade, wvu hasn't been lighting it up since going to big 12.

The others are teams we all agree obtain much lower talent then we do.

Not saying those kids are bad football players, it just because you get a high rating don't always equal success. Elam was a five star by one recruiting service, and we all know how far off that was.

When we sign a four star player out of Ohio, we have a fair share of posters complain about the difference between Florida four stars and Ohio four stars. That we can't win without recruiting the south.

How would a four star Kentucky kid, against the HS compition here be able to build a football team even if we signed those players.

Tim Couch, Andre Woodson, Dennis Johnson, Jared Lorenzen, Micah Johnson, Keenan Burton, Cory Peters, Craig Yeast .....

 

[reflaine]

Tim Couch, Andre Woodson, Dennis Johnson, Jared Lorenzen, Micah Johnson, Keenan Burton, Cory Peters, Craig Yeast .....

How many of those were true NFL players? That's the point about talent. They were good players here no doubt. But those (maybe couch) would be kids who might not see the field at a big time program.

talent wise How many NFL players have went to Florida, UT, lsu, or Bama. That's why poster is saying we will have a lot of trouble out recruiting a lot in this league.

Woodson never made an NFL roster, Lorenzen never a start, Couch was drafted first but put in a terrible spot to succeed so hard to say anything there. The rest never had success in NFL. While every year there are many kids we play against who does. That's the difference in talent.

 

[Black Diamond Cat]

How many of those were true NFL players? That's the point about talent. They were good players here no doubt. But those (maybe couch) would be kids who might not see the field at a big time program.

talent wise How many NFL players have went to Florida, UT, lsu, or Bama. That's why poster is saying we will have a lot of trouble out recruiting a lot in this league.

Woodson never made an NFL roster, Lorenzen never a start, Couch was drafted first but put in a terrible spot to succeed so hard to say anything there. The rest never had success in NFL. While every year there are many kids we play against who does. That's the difference in talent.

Not interested in the NFL, like Calipari and his NBA over NC theory. Several of the people listed played/are still playing in the NFL.
Getting Ky. kids isn't just about star rankings, it state PRIDE also. Getting fired up for every game, crying hard when we lose..... intangibles !

 

[UKat51]

I think great coaches can get more out of their players even if they aren't ranked as highly. Look at James Franklin. Despite Vandy having poor SEC recruiting he had them winning 4 and 5 games in the SEC in just 3 years and had two 9 win seasons. Vandy was 2-10 the two years prior to his arrival and he got 6 wins in year one. So, he certainly wasn't hindered by not having the jimmies and Joes. That year he beat us by 30. Sure, he didn't compete for a league championship, but he didn't need 5+ years to completely change Vanderbilt football. Stoops has improved us, but I don't think he's a great coach to get us to another level. I'll be very happy to be wrong, but to me great coaches do what Franklin was able to do.

Franklin was recruiting better than Joker and that was reflected in the scores of our games. We have decent skill players. The OL and DL is another matter.

 

[reflaine]

Not interested in the NFL, like Calipari and his NBA over NC theory. Several of the people listed played/are still playing in the NFL.
Getting Ky. kids isn't just about star rankings, it state PRIDE also. Getting fired up for every game, crying hard when we lose..... intangibles !

And those guys above had no more, if not less success than the guys you have right now. The NFL is for the best players. This thread is about not being able to recruit the best players in our league. I'm about winning ballgames. And talent goes way farther than pride. Want to debate about how much work and pride JLo had? Or desire to get better when he couldn't get to camp at a weight needed to succeed. (Hey I love Jarred, but let's call a spade a spade)

Just because I shot down your narritive don't try and come up with something else. The thread is about not being able to recruit talent at the level of a lot of our conference brethren. To compete in the east we have to have talent. It's funny that we have increased our talent level, and also increased how long into the season we are still in the race for the east. The past two years we have came into the month of November still with a chance (this year much slimmer than last) to go to Atlanta. It's funny that the talent had gotten better, as have our results.

I love an instate kid and all that pride. But that group (Woodson, burton) also layed some major eggs in their career. (, ulm where we needed a two point conversion stop to hold on in 2006, how about miss state in what could of been our best year ever at home in 2007. Even USC 2007 although they were ranked high early before finishing 6--6)
We were ready to play and showed good fight yesterday. Wasn't until it was known we wasn't going to win that they mated down. A lot of that was due to the fact that UGA is that kind of team. How hard is it to keep from getting ran on by them. Esp when the game is in doubt. They still had motivation as seniors trying to finish out a career in their own stadium late. Our effort was good last night until game was decided.

 

[UKat51]

This is one of the best years in recent memory for HS football talent in Kentucky. With at least four 4* players and several high 3*s, and yet we have 0 commits from in state, they are going to Texas, West Virginia, Georgia Tech, Duke, Vandy etc.

Then you are in agreement that we need to do a better job in keeping home grown talent at KY instead of them leaving the state.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

And how many of those programs are just big national power houses right now. Texas has been down for pretty much a decade, wvu hasn't been lighting it up since going to big 12.

The others are teams we all agree obtain much lower talent then we do.

Not saying those kids are bad football players, it just because you get a high rating don't always equal success. Elam was a five star by one recruiting service, and we all know how far off that was.

When we sign a four star player out of Ohio, we have a fair share of posters complain about the difference between Florida four stars and Ohio four stars. That we can't win without recruiting the south.

How would a four star Kentucky kid, against the HS compition here be able to build a football team even if we signed those players.

Oh I don't know... How would you feel if we had Damien Harris and Jedrick Wills on the team? I think if schools like Bama are coming hard after players in your state then they must be pretty good.
I don't think schools from all over the country will be wasting resources on players in Kentucky if they did not evaluate them theirselves and find them worthy of a scholarship. Don't you think?

 

[Comebakatz3]

Franklin was recruiting better than Joker and that was reflected in the scores of our games. We have decent skill players. The OL and DL is another matter.

The point is more that he turned them around immediately. He didn't need 6 years. In year one he had them at 6 wins and in years 2 and three he had them at 9. He did improve their recruiting but he didn't need a roster of his own recruits to make them better.

 

[Comebakatz3]

So why didn’t Vandy go hire the next James Franklin?
And even James Franklin is only doing marginally better at Penn State than he did at Vandy with all of their resources.

I'm not saying it's easy to find those coaches. I'm saying that great coaches can make an impact immediately or very quickly. I honestly don't think Franklin is a great coach, but he is a very good coach. He's had Penn State in the national championship discussion the last two seasons and went to the rose bowl last year. My point is that I think that with better coaching we would have had a much better season ourselves. We had the talent to play much better than we have this season.

 

[Blue Decade]

UK may have great seasons in the future but they will never have better players than half the SEC. Georgia, Florida, Bama, LSU, Texas A&M and Auburn will always have more talent than UK. The team left like Tennessee, the Mississippi schools will do whatever it takes to get players. U.K., Vandy, and Missouri will always suck hind tit

No matter what UK does the rest of the year they will always have a football program like the one you see on the field today. UK could go undefeated and that would be great in any year but at UK it would be the exception, an anomolie, and would never affect the perception of UK. Going undefeated at UK is the exception but at the SEC powerhouses, going undefeated is expected every year. That is the simple facts. When fans, coaches, AD, and have low expectation and accept 6-7-8 win seasons as being successful, what you see is what you get.

Another pessimist with a crystal ball.

 

[cardkilla]

They haven't played a schedule that much different than us and even if it isn't quite as good, they still have gone out every week and taken care of business. Doing so with recruiting classes ranked lower than ours.

Sorry this isn't aritmetic where you can just plugin numbers and arrive at an accurate conclusion.

Wisconsin has been a winning program for quite some time. If you go back to 2006
2006 - 12-1
2007 9-4
2008 7-6
2009 10-3
2010 11-2
2011 11-3
2012 8-6
2013 9-4
2014 11-3
2015 10-3
2016 11-3

That's a pretty good record and shows they have a system that is consistent and found a formula that wins games.

 

[Blue Decade]

We’ll be about the same next year 7-8 wins

Another fortune teller. Actually, I doubt next year will be a whole lot like this 1. Losing SJ, Juice, Love, MacGinnis, a lot of things are bound to change. I follow recruiting as a predictor of the future, and our next couple of recruiting classes will tell us a great deal.

 

[Comebakatz3]

Sorry this isn't aritmetic where you can just plugin numbers and arrive at an accurate conclusion.

Wisconsin has been a winning program for quite some time. If you go back to 2006
2006 - 12-1
2007 9-4
2008 7-6
2009 10-3
2010 11-2
2011 11-3
2012 8-6
2013 9-4
2014 11-3
2015 10-3
2016 11-3

That's a pretty good record and shows they have a system that is consistent and found a formula that wins games.

Yes, that's kind of the point. That they've found a way to be successful on na high level despite having recruiting classes similar to ours. So, it stands to reason that we can do something similar.

 

[Blue Decade]

Franklin was recruiting better than Joker and that was reflected in the scores of our games. We have decent skill players. The OL and DL is another matter.

Offensive line returners for 2018. Price, Young, GAA, Watkins, Dolcine, Dotson, Fortner, Stallings, Stenberg, Wolfe, Jackson. Defensive line returners. Bohanna, Cross, Dubose, Carter, Taylor, Daniel, Middleton, Looney, Hoskins, Whittaker, Abadi-Fitzgerald, plus the Jack linebackers Ware and Paschal. Call me crazy, but this is a lot of quality linemen returning from a repeat bowl team. It isn't the best returning roster in the SEC, but it's better than most. Building a football team is a process. We will need a quarterback and a middle linebacker. Those guys may already be on our roster, or not, but the roles must be won in the spring.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

UK may have great seasons in the future but they will never have better players than half the SEC. Georgia, Florida, Bama, LSU, Texas A&M and Auburn will always have more talent than UK. The team left like Tennessee, the Mississippi schools will do whatever it takes to get players. U.K., Vandy, and Missouri will always suck hind tit

No matter what UK does the rest of the year they will always have a football program like the one you see on the field today. UK could go undefeated and that would be great in any year but at UK it would be the exception, an anomolie, and would never affect the perception of UK. Going undefeated at UK is the exception but at the SEC powerhouses, going undefeated is expected every year. That is the simple facts. When fans, coaches, AD, and have low expectation and accept 6-7-8 win seasons as being successful, what you see is what you get.

Probably right, but there is a coach somewhere out there that could come in and recruit and get a lot of 4 and 5 star players. If Franklin can go to a place like Vandy, for example, there are a couple of coaches out there that could do it. Our linemen are a level down from the better teams in the SEC. Till we can get numerous to linemen every year, nothing much is going to change.

 

[Black Diamond Cat]

Then you are in agreement that we need to do a better job in keeping home grown talent at KY instead of them leaving the state.

Sure !

 

[The-Hack]

I quote two portions of the OP, below, for the purpose of pointing out that they appear a bit contradictory.

If half the SEC will ALWAYS have more talent, and a rational person has so concluded, then how do fan, coach and AD expectations limit us? It sounds like talent is really the limiting factor.

UK may have great seasons in the future but they will never have better players than half the SEC. Georgia, Florida, Bama, LSU, Texas A&M and Auburn will always have more talent than UK.

When fans, coaches, AD, and have low expectation and accept 6-7-8 win seasons as being successful, what you see is what you get.

 

[truebluewildcat]

UK could have a top 15, hell maybe even 10 class, 6-8 programs ahead of us in the rankings will be teams we have to play on a regular basis. In terms of raw talent and skill, UK's best squad ever whether we've had it yet or it's coming, we will be about 4th in the east.

This is why folks are so critical of coaching, and nit pick seemingly every play. We are never going to trot out there with the biggest, fastest, strongest, most talented players. So wins and losses for UK are going to come down to coaching/play calling. A couple bad play calls can literally end the game for us, and they have this year.

Folks, we're in the game with 8:16 in the 3rd. It's 28-13, even just a FG can change the flow of the game. 18 yard pass, great. 3 yard run, 3 yard run, and then a sack on 3rd n 4! For christ sake!

D holds. Next possession we still have hope. Still 28-13. Benny with a 7 yard run, then a 4, then on 1st and 10 we go heave one from the wildcat with Bowden...turnover...

Folks, extending those drives and getting just 3 points not only makes the score 28-19, but it chews up clock and we go into the 4th with some mojo and a chance...

That is not talent, that is not OL, DL, depth etc...all of that was holding up as best it could and in the game...what doomed us was play calling, situational/game awareness...

Benny is averaging 4-5 yds a carry...why the hell would you pass on run downs?

 

[rqarnold]

I'm not saying it's easy to find those coaches. I'm saying that great coaches can make an impact immediately or very quickly. I honestly don't think Franklin is a great coach, but he is a very good coach. He's had Penn State in the national championship discussion the last two seasons and went to the rose bowl last year. My point is that I think that with better coaching we would have had a much better season ourselves. We had the talent to play much better than we have this season.

There is no doubt that with a “better coach” that we could be better. Likewise with a better wife all men could be happier, with a better job we could all be wealthier.
It is also true that with better coaching and less talent we could be in our same position.
Actually finding that “better” option is easier said than done. UK football has been looking for that “better” for over 60 years.
Texas, Tennessee, Nebraska...three historically successful teams have struggled to find the right coach over the last decade.

We have better talent because of Stoops. Brooks was probably a better coach but couldn’t get the talent.

Being over .500 is good by historical UK football standards. How about we get to the point that simply getting to 6-6 is no cause for celebration. Let’s go on a 10-15 year bowl run and get past the stigma of being a bottom feeder program. Doing so will make the job more attractive to both coaches and talent.

 

[rqarnold]

UK could have a top 15, hell maybe even 10 class, 6-8 programs ahead of us in the rankings will be teams we have to play on a regular basis. In terms of raw talent and skill, UK's best squad ever whether we've had it yet or it's coming, we will be about 4th in the east.

This is why folks are so critical of coaching, and nit pick seemingly every play. We are never going to trot out there with the biggest, fastest, strongest, most talented players. So wins and losses for UK are going to come down to coaching/play calling. A couple bad play calls can literally end the game for us, and they have this year.

Folks, we're in the game with 8:16 in the 3rd. It's 28-13, even just a FG can change the flow of the game. 18 yard pass, great. 3 yard run, 3 yard run, and then a sack on 3rd n 4! For christ sake!

D holds. Next possession we still have hope. Still 28-13. Benny with a 7 yard run, then a 4, then on 1st and 10 we go heave one from the wildcat with Bowden...turnover...

Folks, extending those drives and getting just 3 points not only makes the score 28-19, but it chews up clock and we go into the 4th with some mojo and a chance...

That is not talent, that is not OL, DL, depth etc...all of that was holding up as best it could and in the game...what doomed us was play calling, situational/game awareness...

Benny is averaging 4-5 yds a carry...why the hell would you pass on run downs?

That same play calling that you criticize has us where we were when you said we were still in it. Complaints about plays that were not called assume that whatever play you think should have been called would have worked.

It’s easy to be a second guesser. You get to watch and when something doesn’t work you get to claim that we should have done something different with never having to prove anything.

 

[Comebakatz3]

There is no doubt that with a “better coach” that we could be better. Likewise with a better wife all men could be happier, with a better job we could all be wealthier.
It is also true that with better coaching and less talent we could be in our same position.
Actually finding that “better” option is easier said than done. UK football has been looking for that “better” for over 60 years.
Texas, Tennessee, Nebraska...three historically successful teams have struggled to find the right coach over the last decade.

We have better talent because of Stoops. Brooks was probably a better coach but couldn’t get the talent.

Being over .500 is good by historical UK football standards. How about we get to the point that simply getting to 6-6 is no cause for celebration. Let’s go on a 10-15 year bowl run and get past the stigma of being a bottom feeder program. Doing so will make the job more attractive to both coaches and talent.

Many people leave jobs for better ones and even leave bad wives (although that's a lot different and isn't really performanced based like we are actually talking about). Very good coaches can take lesser talent and still win with it. Washington State recruiting isn't much better than ours, actually probably worse. Yet they are 9-2 with a schedule similar to ours. They are doing that without a recruiting class in the top 50. We've got enough talent to be much better and I think if we don't start taking advantage of these weak schedules then were going to likely begin to struggle more in recruiting because the recruits will begin to understand that our coaching staff is average at best.

 

[seccats04]

This is pretty amazing I must admit. I equate it to Stoops still gaining experience and in at least a small part - freaking bad luck. We shot ourselves in the foot vs UF and Ole Miss, but let's be honest, the ref's sure did us no favors either in those games. Take away that holding vs UF and we likely beat them on a FG. Take away that over-turned fumble and we beat Ole Miss. Although our final record will be better, there's been as much heart-break this season as any since 2002 and 2003 - the Bluegrass Nightmare vs LSU, 4th quarter collapse vs FL in Lorenzen's last year, 7 OT loss vs Arky.

Paul Chryst has been a HC for 1 more year than Stoops. Although I thought it was surprising that Wisconsin hired him because he was 19-19 at Pitt. But he did have connections to Wisky as he was the OC before Pitt hired him. I guess when you hire a coordinator you never know what you're going to get. Who thought James Franklin was going to be a home run at Vandy? Nobody knew who he was.

 

[Brown is the new Blue]

with your attitude, we certainly won't sign better recruiting classes....

It's your losing mentality that needs to be adjusted.

There is no reason UK cannot start recruiting with the best teams in the SEC if we keep improving. We have the facilities, we have a fan base that will continue to support the program especially if we keep going to bowls, etc.

There are only so many spots on a football team. UK can find enough top notch recruits in the states of Ohio, Kentucky, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, etc. to field a top notch SEC program.

It can happen. We just have to keep racking up 8+ win seasons and top recruits will consider us.

Mr Hot Dice’s attitude has nothing to do with UK’s recruiting results. Neither does yours. Where do you people come up with this stuff?

 

[Bluegrass79]

Let’s expand on this smart scheduling concept for a bit. Given that 9 games on our schedule are set and the other three we usually play couldn’t beat Trinity High School, I’d be interested to know what you’re proposing here that could help us get to 10 wins.

the order in which we play the other SEC teams is important. We didn't play a west sec team until mid-October. That's a plus. Id like to see Florida moved to November and Vandy moved to September....id call that smart scheduling. I'd continue playing the same Out of conference low end type teams before mid October. Keep loserville in November and we can get 8, 9, 10 wins every year with our current level of recruiting.

We had a shot at 10 this year. Probably would've beaten Florida had the game been in November.

 

[WildcatDJ]

There is no doubt that with a “better coach” that we could be better. Likewise with a better wife all men could be happier, with a better job we could all be wealthier.
It is also true that with better coaching and less talent we could be in our same position.
Actually finding that “better” option is easier said than done. UK football has been looking for that “better” for over 60 years.
Texas, Tennessee, Nebraska...three historically successful teams have struggled to find the right coach over the last decade.

We have better talent because of Stoops. Brooks was probably a better coach but couldn’t get the talent.

Being over .500 is good by historical UK football standards. How about we get to the point that simply getting to 6-6 is no cause for celebration. Let’s go on a 10-15 year bowl run and get past the stigma of being a bottom feeder program. Doing so will make the job more attractive to both coaches and talent.

While I agree with much of what you're saying, our improved facilities should lead to no worse than the current level recruiting regardless who the coach is.

Now we need to see our coaches make our players play above their heads.

 

[NamelessOne]

UK may have great seasons in the future but they will never have better players than half the SEC. Georgia, Florida, Bama, LSU, Texas A&M and Auburn will always have more talent than UK. The team left like Tennessee, the Mississippi schools will do whatever it takes to get players. U.K., Vandy, and Missouri will always suck hind tit

No matter what UK does the rest of the year they will always have a football program like the one you see on the field today. UK could go undefeated and that would be great in any year but at UK it would be the exception, an anomolie, and would never affect the perception of UK. Going undefeated at UK is the exception but at the SEC powerhouses, going undefeated is expected every year. That is the simple facts. When fans, coaches, AD, and have low expectation and accept 6-7-8 win seasons as being successful, what you see is what you get.

They don't have to.

If you can consistently get in the 20's (like Mizz did before coming to SEC) you can win. It's just harder and you need a few breaks along the way.

Stoops best class was the 2014 class. We saw it pay off last year in a season I say we were much better. Probably the best in my life. Had they knew who they were early in the season, (a running team) they would have beat Southern MIss and finished 8-4. Stoops last few classes have dipped down in the lower 30's and it's not doable with those. When you look at the schedule preseason, UK from a talent standpoint was probably better than 4 or 5 teams. But we've had the fortune of playing badly coached teams.

But you cant win the East with classes that come in at 35-40. If stoops can get classes like 2014 routinely, then yah we'll compete for the east. And since he's already done it once, then it's fair to say he can again.

 

[The-Hack]

If you can consistently get in the 20's (like Mizz did before coming to SEC) you can win.

Well, according to Rivals, the most easily accessible rankings list, Mizzou's rankings were as follows: '05--39th; '06--47th; '07--33rd; '08--25th; '09--40th; '10--21st; '11--48th; '12--31st; '13--41st; '14--34th; '15--27th; '16--47th; '17--49th.

Frankly, they were hardly better than Kentucky's recruiting classes during the same period, with the exception of '08 and '10, and they were far from consistently being in the twenties . . . .the six year average from '08 to '13 was 34th, and these were the recruits (largely) who brought them the two SEC East titles in 2013 and 2014.

A few years ago, though, I saw a thread on a Mizzou board that listed Mizzou as third in the nation for NFL draftees from 2002 thru 2015 . . . .

Stoops last few classes have dipped down in the lower 30's and it's not doable with those.

Generally, I agree, although Mizzou is the perfect example to contradict you. If you can get enough 2 stars to bloom, and few of the 4 and 5 stars to fade, it can be done. Michael Sams, for reference, was a 5.4, 2 star according to Rivals.

[Begin Edit]

Stoops' classes since his arrival have been as follows: '17--26th; '16--28th; '15--35th; '14--17th; '13--29th. A five year average of 27th. Only one according to Rivals has hit the 30's.

 

[JC CATS]

Will struggle to crack the top 10 which makes Vince Marrow vastly overrated.

Your posts are vastly overrated, and I think they suck