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Twins, selfish or NOT (decluttering)

JonathanW

All-American
Jan 3, 2003
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At face value, 30 of 64 FGA taken by them, sure it looks like they are (selfish). But could it be (I think so) that when they see the team struggling they take it upon themselves to try and win the game. Maybe too much of that competitive spirit that we were told they have 18+ months ago. Booker was the only guy able to make shots (but only when open) before the 2nd OT.

This post was edited on 1/11 7:42 PM by JonathanW
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

And it could also be they HAD to take shots because the shot clock was under 10 seconds.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I can't think of too many shots they took yesterday that were selfish.

When teams are packing it in like they were and daring the twins to shoot, you just have to step up and knock it down.

Let's remember that in the Ole Miss game they played very well. Ulis struggled mightily. Total inversion of that yesterday.

I think this team is just hitting the proverbial wall right now. The teamwide intensity is starting to lag. This is the ides of the season when John Wall wasn't having fun, when Terrence Jones went nuts, when WCS looked like he was a zombie last year. The good news is that good teams usually hit their second wind.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

They shoot way too much. Given the talent on this team there's no reason that our best play should be a long three point attempt when the shot clock is winding down. The second OT stood out as we were getting the ball inside more to Dakari. Should have been doing that all game.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by mdlUK.1:
And it could also be they HAD to take shots because the shot clock was under 10 seconds.
As a team we did a ton of that yesterday no matter who had the ball out front.We had to rush/force multiple bad shots.I don't understand why we let A&M play defense for only about 10 seconds each trip down the court.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Originally posted by Catscratch81:
They shoot way too much. Given the talent on this team there's no reason that our best play should be a long three point attempt when the shot clock is winding down. The second OT stood out as we were getting the ball inside more to Dakari. Should have been doing that all game.
Get it inside? Did you watch the game? Did you see how many inside shots our bigs got blocked or flat missed?
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


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Re: Twins, selfish or Not

The twins are not selfish. If you were watching that game yesterday you could tell our offense was, well there wasn't any offense. I think this is why our fans think they are selfish. They are the two guards who have it in there hands a lot. When we are just passing the ball around the wing and not running anything then the twins get stuck with the ball and have to make a play. I am no twin hater. I think without them we are an average team. But once our offense smooths up like last year you will see a different pair. Just right now the team is in a bad flow on offense leading to too many jumpers. Just my opinion though.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I don't think they are selfish players, It appears that there are certain situations that the don't necessarily "trust" their teammates...throwing ahead or giving it up on fast break being one of them, but who knows what Cal is telling them to do.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I don't know if their selfish or not...they do shoot a lot. The problem is they are to slow/soft to get in gaps. Both are horrendous finishing on contested break aways and Andrew is flat out atrocious at finishing floaters and in the paint two pointers. Stats do mean something when 2 of your top shot takers are two of your poorest shot makers
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

After the game presser by Cal...Andrew was injured, which explains some of the issues with finishing. He usually makes those easy layups, he misses contested layups a lot, but easy ones he makes. He missed like 2 or 3 of those. He's also one of our most clutch free throw shooter, yet he missed bunch yesterday.

Aaron just shot the ball too much, he should of attacked. I think Coach Cal said that yesterday. I agree, he seems to have settled yesterday, other than that his expectation is to try to score. maybe 20 is a bit extreme, but he should be our highest rate of shooting.

Twins also had more assists than Booker + Ulis. Andrew probably also have more hockey assists also.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


If needing a critical basket and not passing to Booker when both twins are in the game, then yes!
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I won't call them selfish,yet, but they seem to be more concerned about the other brother than the rest of the team when both are in the game.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

It would help Andrew's game immensely if he had some semblance of a floater.

These SEC teams are playing the "four guys in the paint and one cheating out on Devin Booker defense." What's open is the part of the paint around the "dotted line" and the mid-range game. We don't exploit that nearly enough.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

MD, not going to defend my opinion to you. We won BECAUSE we got the ball inside during the OT not by throwing up contested three point shots.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I think the best players are selfish to an extent but..........the twins need to work on attacking the basket more. I grew up watching allen iverson attack that basket like it was the only way to score....
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

^^^^ I agree.

Only Harrison play I took issue with was the missed layup at the end. The shot clock was turned off, even though he had some free throw issues, Andrew was our top free throw shooter. He should've dribbled out the clock and taken the foul and attempted the free throws. Instead, he took it the rim....and missed.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

That was the only play that I had issues with also. Lee was ready for the lob that never happened.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I wouldn't call it selfish. I might call it a failure to understand.

For example, Aaron going 4-20. Any player shooting that poorly should know to "slow his roll" for that game. He got 26 points the game before so I'm betting he thought it would come if he just kept shooting. That's what I mean by "failure to understand" or maybe it should be "over confident" instead. But, at any rate, you are hurting your team at 4-20.

Please, people I'm not picking on AH, I would say that about any player form Michael Jordan down to middle school who was going 4-20.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

I hate it when they have a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 and thy take to the hole instead giving the ball up. I scream at the TV every time..."pass the damn ball." They have talent, but they can be selfish at times.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by Joneslab:
I can't think of too many shots they took yesterday that were selfish.

When teams are packing it in like they were and daring the twins to shoot, you just have to step up and knock it down.

Let's remember that in the Ole Miss game they played very well. Ulis struggled mightily. Total inversion of that yesterday.

I think this team is just hitting the proverbial wall right now. The teamwide intensity is starting to lag. This is the ides of the season when John Wall wasn't having fun, when Terrence Jones went nuts, when WCS looked like he was a zombie last year. The good news is that good teams usually hit their second wind.
I disagree with saying Ulis struggled mightily against Ole Miss. He didnt score but had 7 assists and no turnovers
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by CatsIndy2010:
I think the best players are selfish to an extent but..........the twins need to work on attacking the basket more. I grew up watching allen iverson attack that basket like it was the only way to score....
I'd like to see them attack more as well. If they will get into the gaps of the zone it can only help. I think this was Cal's expectation yesterday, but Andrew was hurt and Aaron was hell-bent on shooting the three.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


I'm like Coach Cal, I will take our guards over any team. How quick people forget that they took us to the final game last year. Enough of this clutter, support our team and our players. Go CATS!
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Maybe some of you should make a trip to Lexington and kindly offer your coaching assistance to them....I'm sure Cal would love the free help.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

^ Ulis was one of the main reasons Ole Miss was in that game. They picked on him relentlessly.

There was some of the same stuff happening yesterday, just not as severe. (Partly because of TAMU's personnel.)

Teams are starting to run a lot of stuff--rub screens, elbow action, etc.--to try and use our switching against us and get Ulis out on an island. He's used to playing an inch off his man right up in the chest. They're starting to exploit him because of that. Needs to make an adjustment, which he will.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by KyFaninNC:
I won't call them selfish,yet, but they seem to be more concerned about the other brother than the rest of the team when both are in the game.
See, this is bitching.

This post was edited on 1/11 11:43 AM by Blueaz
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Originally posted by Catscratch81:
MD, not going to defend my opinion to you. We won BECAUSE we got the ball inside during the OT not by throwing up contested three point shots.
I agree with you but for most of the game our bigs were getting abused. And don't forget the Ulis 3 gave us the lead for good.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Originally posted by John Barleycorn:
^^^^ I agree.

Only Harrison play I took issue with was the missed layup at the end. The shot clock was turned off, even though he had some free throw issues, Andrew was our top free throw shooter. He should've dribbled out the clock and taken the foul and attempted the free throws. Instead, he took it the rim....and missed.
He also had the easy lob to Marcus Lee that he passed on to take the contested layup.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Aaron's taking 30% of the team's shots while he's in the game. That's way too much.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by BBN3240:
Maybe some of you should make a trip to Lexington and kindly offer your coaching assistance to them....I'm sure Cal would love the free help.
I get your point, but that definitely wasn't one of Cal's best games. At this point, I don't know how you can deny that the twins shoot way too much for what their career percentages have been.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

If you think the twins aren't selfish you aren't watching UK play basketball. As other have mentioned they could have a 5 on 1 break away and they wouldn't even consider a pass for an easy lay up. At the end of the game and the end of the 1st overtime Andrew dribbled around for 20 seconds and Cal had to call a timeout and in the 1st overtime Aaron when we were down two dribbled around never looking to give it up ever and shot a brick luckily they missed the missed the free throw at the other end. Aaron isn't as bad as Andrew in my book because he at least supports his team mates. Andrew did the same thing yesterday he did during UL sat on the bench and didn't cheer for the other guys like the little baby he is. Cal has to protect them because he can't have a 5 star top 5 player turn into an un-drafted nobody on his watch, but Andrew is a bum. He wasn't hurt he blew a lay up and fell down out of shame not injury, anyone could see that. I want this team to be awesome and I'd prefer all the guys play and contribute but for 2 years now Cal has been coddling the twins and it isn't working, I think maybe it's time for him to start treating them like he did Terrance Jones.
This post was edited on 1/11 2:22 PM by miracle7s
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

MD, you do have a good point about our bigs getting abused. For whatever reason we finally managed to get them the ball in the second OT. Looked as if putting Lyles at the high post was a good move even though he got called for a bogus traveling violation. I think the bottom line is that if the twins are jacking up too many shots and not hitting the other teams can pack it in on us.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Aaron is option 1 in our offense. That is very obvious. Coach must have it designed that way. They do pass it back and forth to each other but mostly that is a result of the bigs never flashing for the ball. I find it hard to believe that the twins are just going rogue and doing things different than they do everyday in practice.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Originally posted by goingpostal72:

Aaron is option 1 in our offense. That is very obvious. Coach must have it designed that way. They do pass it back and forth to each other but mostly that is a result of the bigs never flashing for the ball. I find it hard to believe that the twins are just going rogue and doing things different than they do everyday in practice.
Well then the Harrison's are going against what Cal wants because he has made it ultra clear he wants the offensive ran through the post. Seems like it's all talk though. Not saying I agree with the Cal just rolls the ball out shtick but he does little to no in game coaching. 6 years as coach we haven't run a single out of bounds, not 1. We just toss it up to a big so he can throw it to reset the offense or we chuck one 60 feet down the court to guard to then bring it back into the front court and start whatever we may do. For 2 years now teams have packed in a zone against us and we have no zone offense. We dribble in circles, pass it to the wing, pass it back out top and a lot of times force a bad shot. I don't know why that is? I have to assume that isn't what Cal wants and the players just aren't executing but at some point, my god, call a timeout. We also for the 2nd year in a row have a team that no one fears. There is no Cousins, Bledsoe, Wall, Harrellson, Knight, Davis, Liggins, Teague, guys that had some toughness, some street if you will. We are soft as hell and honestly I don't think Cal is used to that. He has always had guys that had an edge on his team and with no one to give the team an edge we have no killer instinct.

This post was edited on 1/11 2:59 PM by miracle7s
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

Originally posted by MdWIldcat55:
"for 2 years now Cal has been coddling the twins for 2 years and it isn't working"

Thanks for the laugh of the year. I can't wait to send this to buddies of mine who follow other teams to help them understand the insanity of some Kentucky fans...

Not working? Some knowledgeable basketball fans would consider a 2014 run the the Final Game, in which freshman Aaron Harrison was the undisputed star and cold-blooded assassin with THREE game winning shots, followed by a fantastic start to their sophomore season in which the team is 15-0, and has been No. 1 all year, as working pretty well.

As to the OP's question: No, the Harrisons aren't selfish. They sometimes don't play their best, and fail to get good ball movement going. Usually that's a matter of all the players being out of synch -- the guards not moving the ball well, the front court payers not getting open or making interior passes. Then they take questionable shots late in the shot clock when other options fail. People who don't understand basketball just see the last part, the bad shot, and assume the shooter is "selfish."

By the way, the twins dominated the Ole Miss game when none of Kentucky's interior players could make a 2-foot shot against a team that had THREE players who were making crazy shots all night. No way UK wins without them. What a bunch of ingrates to forget all the good things the Harrisons have done for Kentucky basketball already.







This post was edited on 1/11 2:37 PM by MdWIldcat55
Aaron is a gunner, I don't see how anyone can deny that. He never looks to get it down low. He either shoots it or passes it back to Andrew. He took 20 shots last night and he is currently leading our team in field goal attempts while barely making more than a third of his shots. I'd say the tourney run was just a hot streak. The player he was all season last year, and this year is what he is, at least for the immediate future. I won't call Andrew selfish, but he spends way too much time just dribbling on the perimeter, and not doing anything. He is also terribly inefficient, but it doesn't hurt us as much because he usually doesn't take a lot of shots. They are both ball stoppers.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not


Originally posted by MdWIldcat55:
"for 2 years now Cal has been coddling the twins for 2 years and it isn't working"

Thanks for the laugh of the year. I can't wait to send this to buddies of mine who follow other teams to help them understand the insanity of some Kentucky fans...

Not working? Some knowledgeable basketball fans would consider a 2014 run the the Final Game, in which freshman Aaron Harrison was the undisputed star and cold-blooded assassin with THREE game winning shots, followed by a fantastic start to their sophomore season in which the team is 15-0, and has been No. 1 all year, as working pretty well.

As to the OP's question: No, the Harrisons aren't selfish. They sometimes don't play their best, and fail to get good ball movement going. Usually that's a matter of all the players being out of synch -- the guards not moving the ball well, the front court payers not getting open or making interior passes. Then they take questionable shots late in the shot clock when other options fail. People who don't understand basketball just see the last part, the bad shot, and assume the shooter is "selfish."

By the way, the twins dominated the Ole Miss game when none of Kentucky's interior players could make a 2-foot shot against a team that had THREE players who were making crazy shots all night. No way UK wins without them. What a bunch of ingrates to forget all the good things the Harrisons have done for Kentucky basketball already.






This post was edited on 1/11 2:37 PM by MdWIldcat55
Think whatever you want but when Jones acted like a baby Cal cussed him and benched him. He'd rip Darius Miller, Boogie and him would scream at each other on the sidelines. He hasn't shown an ounce of that towards the Harrisons'. You may have another word besides coddling but I sure don't. In terms of NCAA run last year. You just must not of watched the games if you think the twins carried us through. It was a complete team effort. Twins no showed in the final 4 completely. Aaron made 1 play of consequence in the entire final 4. James Young was hands down the best player of the tournament run. There is more to a game than just 1 shot without the other guys carry the team Aaron wouldn't have even had the chance.
 
Re: Twins, selfish or Not

If it wasn't for the tournament run the twins would be ripped even worse than they are now. 4-20 is being selfish. No way around it. Their biggest problem is on the defensive end. They struggle to stop anyone driving. I'd guess they both want to go pro after this year but are they even draftable at this point?
 
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