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Toppins comments on Wheeler

This forum has become a no holds barred grudge match. Different people take turns in the ring but it’s present in every single thread- every single day. We need to have a forum wide day of peace lol. Between the baiting, allowing trolls to run free, and the state of the program, don’t see much changing.
 
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Obviously the coach is mostly to blame not the players. Cal is the one playing wheeler too many minutes. At the end of the day though wheeler has been more productive than toppin.

If wheeler is played with the correct lineup like he was majority of last year he can be effective. When he’s on the floor with a crew of non shooters he looks like what he is. An undersized point guard.
 
Yes, I do think there are posters here who don't want him to do well. The example you give is posted here daily- Wheeler is trash or Wheeler sucks or Wheeler isn't UK caliber or Wheeler shouldn't play a minute. It's hate. I've agreed with your premise in paragraph 1, by the way. It's clear, the numbers bear it out that Wheeler must play a lesser role. I'm not even arguing.

Here's what I'm arguing. We need Wheeler to embrace that lesser role because he's still on the team and will still be needed. So, we've proven he should play less, now let's support him. We don't need him any more upset than he already would be naturally, and any of us would feel the same way. And it's clear they do read comments from fans, just based on Toppin's comments. These guys love Wheeler. We should too. That's all I'm saying. I know there are many who won't be able to do that, but I can ask.

And as for Jesus being hated, no doubt, He was. It was wrong when they hated Him, though, it was unjust hate. Probably not your best example. And for us who follow His example, we're told to love one another and treat others as we would want to be treated. Our fans have not come close to doing this with Wheeler. We've done the opposite. And constructive criticism is fine, as I've said many times. But gratuitous insults, as I mentioned above, don't help anyone. We can support him even while saying he shouldn't be playing as much. We want him to do well in his more limited role.

And I'm sure you don't hate him, which is shown from your thoughtful response instead of a one-liner insults which I often get when attempting to talk about Wheeler.

As for Wheeler needing to learn how to persevere through hate and hyper criticism, BBN has been teaching him that for well over a year now. I'm not sure if he's learned to endure it well or not, but he's getting that lesson every single day right here. He's the unfortunate son this season, without question. I wonder, though, if we should make it our goal to be the source of someone's persecution? To be the reason they must learn perseverance and patience? To be the jerks who try to cause another's suffering to teach them to have a stronger character? I don't think that's a virtue. If it were, we'd be a holy group for sure in regard to Wheeler.
I don’t think saying he isn’t UK caliber is “hate” when he’s making 6-7 figures to play here. Your other examples I agree with but mostly what I see about Wheeler are posters analyzing the performance of the team with him on vs off the court. They’re looking at the flow of the team, how well they play defense, and some even go as deep as the study the numbers behind it all. The people saying things like “he’s trash” with nothing else attached are not usually routine posters.

And you’re not wrong that we should all be more virtuous and strive to be nicer to people, I’m just not sure how realistic that expectation is for the starting PG of a Calipari coached UK team. When people say he’s not a UK caliber starting PG I think that’s an honest assessment given UKs history of talent, especially at PG under Cal. I don’t think that’s hate, rather, I think it’s just calling a spade a spade.

The way you talk about Wheeler you make it sounds like he’s a war veteran. He’s getting paid 6-7 figures, a free college education/degree (which he will need if we’re being realistic), free room and board, free meals, and top tier athletic facilities and trainers to get better at the game he’s profiting off of. If he can’t take the bad with the good that’s tough. Is it fair that life is like that? Well, while I won’t go out of my way to hurt anyone’s feelings I will share my honest opinion on his ability and how the team does without him vs with him. If that hurts his feelings then he’s out of touch with reality. If you think he’s really a victim that needs defending, then I would argue you’re out of touch with reality. I understand this may sound blunt but I do say this with respect. I just don’t know how else to be, I’ve never been a sugar coater.

I thought the example of Jesus was the best example. I never said it was fair or just. I never even implied that. My whole point was that people have had it much worse and currently have it much worse than Wheeler does. And if we’re going to fight a crusade to treat people better I just don’t think your time and energy defending Wheeler is well spent. He’s leading a very good and comfy life, even when you consider the less than pleasant things said about him.
 
Unfortunately there are alot of vocal fanatics in this fanbase that constantly voice their opinions in ways that hurt the program.
 
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I don’t think saying he isn’t UK caliber is “hate” when he’s making 6-7 figures to play here. Your other examples I agree with but mostly what I see about Wheeler are posters analyzing the performance of the team with him on vs off the court. They’re looking at the flow of the team, how well they play defense, and some even go as deep as the study the numbers behind it all. The people saying things like “he’s trash” with nothing else attached are not usually routine posters.

And you’re not wrong that we should all be more virtuous and strive to be nicer to people, I’m just not sure how realistic that expectation is for the starting PG of a Calipari coached UK team. When people say he’s not a UK caliber starting PG I think that’s an honest assessment given UKs history of talent, especially at PG under Cal. I don’t think that’s hate, rather, I think it’s just calling a spade a spade.

The way you talk about Wheeler you make it sounds like he’s a war veteran. He’s getting paid 6-7 figures, a free college education/degree (which he will need if we’re being realistic), free room and board, free meals, and top tier athletic facilities and trainers to get better at the game he’s profiting off of. If he can’t take the bad with the good that’s tough. Is it fair that life is like that? Well, while I won’t go out of my way to hurt anyone’s feelings I will share my honest opinion on his ability and how the team does without him vs with him. If that hurts his feelings then he’s out of touch with reality. If you think he’s really a victim that needs defending, then I would argue you’re out of touch with reality. I understand this may sound blunt but I do say this with respect. I just don’t know how else to be, I’ve never been a sugar coater.

I thought the example of Jesus was the best example. I never said it was fair or just. I never even implied that. My whole point was that people have had it much worse and currently have it much worse than Wheeler does. And if we’re going to fight a crusade to treat people better I just don’t think your time and energy defending Wheeler is well spent. He’s leading a very good and comfy life, even when you consider the less than pleasant things said about him.
I appreciate the thoughtful interaction jmeeks. I really do. I think we are mostly in agreement. And we can agree to disagree on the rest. 👍
 
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If Wheeler is reading comments here and taking them to heart, I'd have serious doubts about him having the mental approach to help a legitimate D1 basketball program succeed.
So, we put the responsibility on the people we're daily attacking and insulting to not read what we say instead of being honorable enough not to say awful things that are harmful and painful? Gotcha.

And while we relegate the responsibility to the one we're attacking to just not take it seriously, we take another shot at their intellect in the process. 👍
 
So, we put the responsibility on the people we're daily attacking and insulting to not read what we say instead of being honorable enough not to say awful things that are harmful and painful? Gotcha.

And while we relegate the responsibility to the one we're attacking to just not take it seriously, we take another shot at their intellect in the process. 👍
If fans are attacking his character and personhood on this board, they are idiots who give all us fans a bad look. Haven't read all Wheeler related threads, but in the ones I have, haven't seen much of that.

What I have seen are fans ticked off about his usage and minutes. If people think he sucks as a basketball player and shouldn't play a minute, that is their basketball opinion, which whether or not I agree with, am fine with them expressing.

If Wheeler is reading these threads about him, he is focusing his energy in the wrong spot.
 
I understand they are good friends so taking up for him is fine.But the true fact is this team has been much better on offense without him and he hasn't improved at all.
Agree with a qualifier . . . Much better in THIS offense without him. I contend that in a more spread up tempo offense he would thrive and has before. We all say that we are better in this offense without him but that offense still struggles a lot to score points. That shows that its not just him.

Savir biggest mistake is he tries to force tempo and make things happen when its jut not there and he has to learn to play better in the half court set with more patience and discipline. You saw him start to to that a couple weeks ago when instead of driving out of control he starte just taking the high screen and pulled up for short jumpers instead. But then he got back away from that and made some bad decisions/turnovers again.

But one thing you cant deny, no matter what he's the one guy that would play balls to the wall and not be scared or timid like many others fall into from time to time. So I give him props for that.
 
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So the numbers lie when it tells that the offense is better with Wheeler out?Interesting.
Then again, the offense may be better if Cal actually COACHED an offense. And if he fit that offense to the team he has, Wheeler might look like a star.
 
If fans are attacking his character and personhood on this board, they are idiots who give all us fans a bad look. Haven't read all Wheeler related threads, but in the ones I have, haven't seen much of that.

What I have seen are fans ticked off about his usage and minutes. If people think he sucks as a basketball player and shouldn't play a minute, that is their basketball opinion, which whether or not I agree with, am fine with them expressing.

If Wheeler is reading these threads about him, he is focusing his energy in the wrong spot.
You're absolutely correct. Players aren't attacked on here, daily. It's the fans that are attacked daily. Cal doesn't even get as much hate on here as the fans do. These Cal first guys love to exaggerate and paint anyone that is critical of Cal as a vicious animal.

I see people say Wheeler is an awesome kid and can be an important player off the bench, but doesn't need be the main point guard. That's not hating. But it gets labeled that way.

And there is no reason for players to read message boards, social media, anything. Nothing good can come of it.
 
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So, we put the responsibility on the people we're daily attacking and insulting to not read what we say instead of being honorable enough not to say awful things that are harmful and painful? Gotcha.

And while we relegate the responsibility to the one we're attacking to just not take it seriously, we take another shot at their intellect in the process. 👍
I'm not taking a shot at anyone's intellect. I have no clue if Wheeler reads or actually takes seriously the opinions of fans on a message board. But if he does, and it affects his play, then yeah I seriously question whether he's got the mental approach to be a difference maker with this team. If you don't see that, I can't help you.
 
🤔I'll take the opinion of Kentucky fans who have been watching basketball longer than this Toppin has been alive.... Three or four times his age some of us.🫴
🤙In our professional opinion as fans 92% of us think Wheeler sucks balls and wish for him to pay 5 minutes or less. 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 We care about winning around here not losing. And if you want to lose toppin you can stay on the bench with him with your 16% from three-point line.💯 If ain't wheeler it's your ass causing uk to lose believe that shite..... go look at the stats my friend.💯 You're freaking worse than him at shooting...by alot. And that's saying something. Oh you might play okay Rupp arena but what you going to do on the road? N u t t i n... but.. missing. 💯
Shut the hell up ...you and him ain't done nothing but lose.
Were all the emojis necessary? Lol
 
Well. It this is a good teammate, it doesn't change the fact that Wheeler is not the level of PG UK and Cal needs for his system as a starter. People, us Benny's, have been seeing this for a while now.
When analytics align with results it cannot be any clearer what needs to be done. I agree with Jerry Eaves (a former player AND coach BTW) who says wheeler should play 6 maybe 8 mins a game max. He has too many deficiencies on Offense AND believe it or not D.... Just being fast doesn't make you good... he simply gives up too much height.. He is NOT Ulis... I repeat, HE IS NOT ULIS...

Some people will just look at stat lines, well what has that got us? How are we vs. power 5?

Time to just win ball games. Put the best team out there Cal and quit coddling certain players. Wallace is a top 10 pick. Wheeler has peaked and we know what we have had.
 
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