FB Recruiting Things haven't looked this good for UK football since Bear Bryant
- Thread starter JRowland
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Justin, I agree this is a good read. But I don't agree with what all you said about Fran Curci. I know his team went on probation. Yes, he did wrong. But, it's my firm belief most of the penalties where because U.K. Athletics Director at the time pushed off many basketball sanctions to the football team. Read the sanctions against the football team and you can see basketball written all over them. Cliff Hagan sold Curci out. Curci led U.K. To three winning seasons and two SEC titles. He recruited Oh., Pa. NJ. and of course his state of Florida like Stoops is today. COach Claiborne's only Bowl win was with Curci's recruits. I still find it hard to swallow that Fran Curci isn't honored in the stadium or his team or players. John
I don't have enough knowledge of the situation to refute your conviction on this point. I will say that I have talked to a lot of Kentucky football people who basically concede otherwise, but it's not my style to pretend expertise on a subject when I don't have real expertise. I wasn't even alive then so this is based on conversations with long-time UK observers and writers, lots of archived newspaper reading (a time consuming hobby) and piecemeal research.
Totally agree progress is being made. But until these god-awful embarrassing and humiliating UF/UT losing streaks are ended and replaced with some degree of balance much, much work is left to be done. I like the trajectory but success is measured by wins on the field.
The Stoops bandwagon is nothing but presumptions and assumptions at this point. One gratuitous season doesn't get your name in lights.
Stoops is light years at this point from Claiborne, Brooks and Curci, despite the article's sugarcoating in favor of him.
Stoops is light years at this point from Claiborne, Brooks and Curci, despite the article's sugarcoating in favor of him.
Great history & good reasons for optimism.
But I didn't see fan base apathy but rather revolt.
But I didn't see fan base apathy but rather revolt.
Curci and Brooks had some good things working as well. Can Stoops continue to win? I've watched Kentucky football for over 30 years and we can very easily go 5-7 or 7-5.
Great article, Justin. I'm in full football fever frenzy (mmm, alliteration.)
To the naysayers, just shut up. The recruiting is stacked and the results are on their way, just hang on tight.
To the naysayers, just shut up. The recruiting is stacked and the results are on their way, just hang on tight.
Maybe a little premature, but I think this season will tell the tale on Stoops. Wide open (and once again, not very good by historical standards) SEC East and everybody from Georgia to Vanderbilt thinks they've got a shot to go to Atlanta. Probably the worst team in the division (Missouri) may have one of the best offenses in the nation.
If we're ever gonna make a move, this seems to be the year. At some point, order will be restored and Georgia, Tennessee and Florida will stop being mediocre to bad like they have been the last decade. We're not great at QB and pretty bad up front defensively, but otherwise you've got talent to compete with most of the SEC.
If we're ever gonna make a move, this seems to be the year. At some point, order will be restored and Georgia, Tennessee and Florida will stop being mediocre to bad like they have been the last decade. We're not great at QB and pretty bad up front defensively, but otherwise you've got talent to compete with most of the SEC.
Well written and thought out.
You hit the nail on the head with why we should have more confidence this time around with sustainability than during Coach Brook's tenure: the obvious talent/star discrepancy on National Signing Days.
Consider the national rankings of our classes during the 5 Bowl Game streak. The five recruiting classes immediately following the five bowl games were ranked as follows: Feb. '07, #54; Feb. '08, #57; Feb. '09, #41; Feb. '10, #50; and Feb. of '11, #61.
The five classes following the Bowls averaged 52nd in the nation.
Stoops' five are as follows: Feb. '13, #29; Feb. '14, #17; Feb. '15, #35; Feb. '16, #28; and Feb. of '17, #26.
Stoops' "weakest" class was 6 spots higher nationally than the best class during the bowl streak. (The '09 class, though, had 29 signees, likely helping its' ranking into the top 40; the '15 class had only 22 signees, insuring that one two star kid would be included in our top twenty signees, keeping it out of the top 30).
The average being the 27th ranked class in Stoops' first five classes.
What will Stoops and Co. do in recruiting with a Bowl streak?
You hit the nail on the head with why we should have more confidence this time around with sustainability than during Coach Brook's tenure: the obvious talent/star discrepancy on National Signing Days.
Consider the national rankings of our classes during the 5 Bowl Game streak. The five recruiting classes immediately following the five bowl games were ranked as follows: Feb. '07, #54; Feb. '08, #57; Feb. '09, #41; Feb. '10, #50; and Feb. of '11, #61.
The five classes following the Bowls averaged 52nd in the nation.
Stoops' five are as follows: Feb. '13, #29; Feb. '14, #17; Feb. '15, #35; Feb. '16, #28; and Feb. of '17, #26.
Stoops' "weakest" class was 6 spots higher nationally than the best class during the bowl streak. (The '09 class, though, had 29 signees, likely helping its' ranking into the top 40; the '15 class had only 22 signees, insuring that one two star kid would be included in our top twenty signees, keeping it out of the top 30).
The average being the 27th ranked class in Stoops' first five classes.
What will Stoops and Co. do in recruiting with a Bowl streak?
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Excellent post.
Brooks was limited in what he could do at UK------and the limitations were not self imposed.
You must be a joy at parties.
Reservations can and should abound regarding UK football, but to disregard the praise of steady improvement and culmination with a bowl this past season as "gratuitous" is laughable. Stoops dragged the team from the mass grave that Joker threw it in.
He gets a 10/10 in my book so far unless we'd like to crucify him for bumps and bruises that come with being a first-time HC.
One of them got the program on massive probation, another had a really good season then was basically sub-.500 from there on out, and Brooks -- great things he did -- didn't recruit anywhere near well enough to make Kentucky more than an upper-bottom tier of the SEC team.
Curci's fatal flaw - sanctions
Claiborne's fatal flaw - anemic offenses
Brooks fatal flaw - weak recruiting
To date, Stoops does not display any sign of those issues.
Claiborne's fatal flaw - anemic offenses
Brooks fatal flaw - weak recruiting
To date, Stoops does not display any sign of those issues.
Football has really changed over the years. From the way its played on the field to the circus in which we call football recruiting. You need a coach who can adapt to the ever changing strategic dynamic and one who can assemble a staff who can scout talent and recruit them to your school. Coach Stoops seems to be that coach. On the field results haven't been constant yet, with last year being the first winning season. But I can envision many wins for this program in the future. The recruiting factor has been there from day one and since then we have seen an influx of recruits from Ohio and Florida while also keeping the best from Kentucky at home.
The first few years of Coach Stoops tenure was laden with a revolving door of coaches coming and going. Our staff now seems solidly planted in Lexington. The pay increase that the staff members have received and the improvements to the stadium have made Kentucky a program who can contend with the big boy's of college football.
Coach Stoops has opened the doors at Kentucky for Alumnus to return to Kentucky and once again call it home. Many alumni to include former and current NFL player's have returned. Coach Cal stressed making UK basketball a welcoming home to its former players and Coach Stoops has followed suit for the football team. Recruits have been quoted saying UK feels more like a family and that's why they committed here.
Stoops and company have changed the game at UK In many facets, and this is why he and the program will succeed in my opinion.
The first few years of Coach Stoops tenure was laden with a revolving door of coaches coming and going. Our staff now seems solidly planted in Lexington. The pay increase that the staff members have received and the improvements to the stadium have made Kentucky a program who can contend with the big boy's of college football.
Coach Stoops has opened the doors at Kentucky for Alumnus to return to Kentucky and once again call it home. Many alumni to include former and current NFL player's have returned. Coach Cal stressed making UK basketball a welcoming home to its former players and Coach Stoops has followed suit for the football team. Recruits have been quoted saying UK feels more like a family and that's why they committed here.
Stoops and company have changed the game at UK In many facets, and this is why he and the program will succeed in my opinion.
I started paying attention to Kentucky in the late Bryant years and have followed the team through to today. This is the best summary of Kentucky football I have seen and I believe JRoland has covered the program completely with all its warts and moles.
Bryant, Claiborne and Brooks all ran clean programs and those who didn't did more harm in the long run than they did good in the short run. I believe Stoops will follow these three good examples and will keep a clean program win or lose.
Kentucky is poised to take a giant step ahead and if they win the close ones, this could be the year.
Bryant, Claiborne and Brooks all ran clean programs and those who didn't did more harm in the long run than they did good in the short run. I believe Stoops will follow these three good examples and will keep a clean program win or lose.
Kentucky is poised to take a giant step ahead and if they win the close ones, this could be the year.
Good post, but as everyone on here knows I believe that Joker had a tremendous amount of help in throwing our team into that mass grave. He inherited a team that had TWO four stars playing against seven SEC teams that AVERAGED 38 four star commits the previous four classes, and while that omits Vandy it does include the two Misses. AND he beat a top ten USC team that had 39 four star commits AND a five star, while giving NC Auburn with Cam their closest game, a 3 point loss.
Then the next two years, with the "recruiting room" the focus of our recruiting (by our opponents) he played with NO four stars contributing.
Unpleasant facts, but facts no matter how much some like to ignore them.
Stoops is doing a fantastic job, with a LOT of help totally missing before the strike
Justin, from reading your article it appears cheating has gotten us in trouble several times. Your close to the team and college football insiders, do most people think Kentucky is clean on the recruiting trail. In other words is our recruiting success because of hard work, not something that is going to bite us in the @ss down the line.
I am excited by the recruiting we have seen since Coach Stoops has been here. It appears he has the Assistants that he wants. Now to put all the pieces of the puzzle together.
Times have changed since Coach Bryant. Stadiums are improved, especially at UK, recruiting is much different, and there is more recruiting over players. If a 4 Star player can't cut it, then he will be recruited over. Usually he will be shown the door, even though that's not the way it's put. That's football today! With the big salaries of the coaches, it's win now, or your on the way out, usually with a BIG Buyout.
I, for one, am excited for the new season. It's time to "Put up or shut up."
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Times have changed since Coach Bryant. Stadiums are improved, especially at UK, recruiting is much different, and there is more recruiting over players. If a 4 Star player can't cut it, then he will be recruited over. Usually he will be shown the door, even though that's not the way it's put. That's football today! With the big salaries of the coaches, it's win now, or your on the way out, usually with a BIG Buyout.
I, for one, am excited for the new season. It's time to "Put up or shut up."
OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
Valid points, but Joker doesn't get a pass from me with the whole recruiting thing since he basically cleaned house of all Brooks' coaches and brought in his own people who ended up not being able to coach up anyone not named Hartline or Cobb (who basically coached himself).
Talent doesn't matter if you can't develop it. Development can only take a team so far if you don't have the talent. This much is true, but Joker ran into both issues whereas Rich dealt with one.
My feeling is that as the MAIN recruiter for Brooks and as the RC Joker saw the effort some of the coaches put into recruiting AND the talent gap and thought he needed to bring in coaches that would hit the road and bring in better talent. Unfortunately with the resources available the better talent didn't happen, and the new coaches weren't nearly as good at coaching as some of Brooks old timers that he let go.
I think we are squeaky clean, and while I would never want to be like a city college I think we have gone overboard on it. Not just in recruiting, but other areas, for instance a few years ago members of the squad were supposed to be gone after two mj violations (cost us Caffey, but he also had some grade problems that would have been fixed elsewhere, coaches raved about him as a DB), while Thug U's number was five and the number at Transfer U didn't matter because jurich was in charge. JMO, but a lot of fans agree with it.
Interestingly enough, until Joker became coach we had never signed a recruit with an offer from Home State University this century, and we only got Clemons and Caffey from Georgia because they didn't offer because they happened to sign the #1 RB prospect in the nation, that also happened to be from Georgia. Same reason we got Boom to decommit from Georgia after they signed two five stars from in state. Meanwhile in 2010 Kentucky not only didn't have a five star in the state, we also didn't even have ONE four star.But we didn't need to spend above the bare minimum on football because Brooks sold the stadium out in 07 and that was all that mattered to UK. Fool's gold.
Such was UK's recruiting in the old days before the strike. Also before the in state talent improved a bit.
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CMS will win at UK do to his sustained recruiting. You can look at other teams that have turned their programs around and always find a dramatic rise in their recruiting right before they started their consistent winning.
By averaging the 27th best class nationally, UK has the talent and depth to compete with anyone in the nation, unlike I have ever seen during my time as a fan.
By averaging the 27th best class nationally, UK has the talent and depth to compete with anyone in the nation, unlike I have ever seen during my time as a fan.
I was at UK during the Curci era. I can attest we had some less than desirable characters on the team. Although I have zero knowledge of recruiting violations, some of the stuff players got into ...shall we say violated certain university and state laws, and they always seemed to get away with it. That 1977 team could play though....
In today's world they would all have to gitouttatown, but it is a short drive to Louisville and Knoxville isn't too far away either.
I agree the Cats will have a Humongous '17. & BTW the Cats will be the
Great coach but I don't think Snyder recruits quite that well, AND Oklahoma is supposed to be really good this year.
