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The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)

bigblueinsanity said:
The real issue is they all knew taking these steps would prompt a certain response from Russia. Putin is part mad man and part old bloc guy that has to keep up appearances.

So the real question is, knowing Russia's position was it worth taking these steps that really add no benefit, and got an anticipated military response? The answer to me is clearly no. Given the costs vs benefits, there was very little benefit to adding them and the cost was great (and couldve actually been much worse)
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They thought it was worth it.

Best case scenario, you topple Putin's regime and decimate the Russian economy through sanction and internal disorder, rendering them politically, economically, and militarily inert and inept. Worst case, you lose half Ukraine, ruin the country, kill/displace millions of lives no one genuinely cares about, certainly not as much as the profits NGOs and hedgefunds stand to make in her reconstruction.
 
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RunninRichie said:
More like Poland doesn't have massive stocks of high dollar equipment sitting around like the US and other European countries. Poland is dying for Russia to try and invade them. They've made it clear they will end Russia.
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Nice contradicting yourself.
 
RunninRichie said:
What? Poland is gearing their military's up for Russia in case they try anything. Hence them ceasing aid to Ukraine. You far-right guys aren't the brightest though.
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Nor are people who claim the Poland military doesn't have advanced equipment like the rest of Europe, amd in the next sentence say they're chomping at the bit to destroy Russia!

Kind of like idiots who said NATO is next if we don't stop putinn now saying how how pathetic Russia is, and how Ukraine will kick them out!

Lots and lots of Neville chamberlain and appeasement posts from that group.

Everyone knows who those neo-com warmonger are.
 
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Kind of like,

'Ukraine doesn't have biolabs, that's preposterous'

Here's proof USA admitted we do

'Well that's different, those aren't those types of biolabs!'

Next you'll be telling everyone that biolabs in Ukraine are actually a good thing!

We've all read the script, multiple times.
 
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Marleydogg said:
Nor are people who claim the Poland military doesn't have advanced equipment like the rest of Europe, amd in the next sentence say they're chomping at the bit to destroy Russia!

Kind of like idiots who said NATO is next if we don't stop putinn now saying how how pathetic Russia is, and how Ukraine will kick them out!

Lots and lots of Neville chamberlain and appeasement posts from that group.

Everyone knows who those neo-com warmonger are.
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You misunderstood me in your blatant attempt to gotcha. Poland doesn't have a BUNCH of high dollar advanced equipment. And the little it does have it wants to reserve in-case Russia wants to invade and not send to Ukraine. Which is why I said they are gearing up for a war with Russia. And they are very much itching for Russia to try and invade them. They hate Russia.
 
Marleydogg said:
Kind of like,

'Ukraine doesn't have biolabs, that's preposterous'

Here's proof USA admitted we do

'Well that's different, those aren't those types of biolabs!'

Next you'll be telling everyone that biolabs in Ukraine are actually a good thing!

We've all read the script, multiple times.
Click to expand...
Kind of like the labs were researching pathogens and other such things and the US has multiple of these labs in other countries all across the globe? The same labs Russian scientists frequently visited? Just how well-versed are you in this? I imagine nothing more than Tucker Carlson twitter posts and twitter clips.
 
bigblueinsanity said:
This is a red herring imo. I don't think any reasonable person disagrees, when viewed in a vacuum, adding Ukraine to NATO really doesn't harm anyone. Granted it doesn't really help anyone either.

The real issue is they all knew taking these steps would prompt a certain response from Russia. Putin is part mad man and part old bloc guy that has to keep up appearances.

So the real question is, knowing Russia's position was it worth taking these steps that really add no benefit, and got an anticipated military response? The answer to me is clearly no. Given the costs vs benefits, there was very little benefit to adding them and the cost was great (and couldve actually been much worse)
Click to expand...
Giving Putin an excuse like Ukraine joining Nato is a convenient smokescreen. Putin wants Ukraine back as part of Russia. You can play chicken and egg if you wish but the fact of the matter is Putin has acted illegally against Ukraine for more than a decade.

Now he's getting what he deserves. More border countries that will ultimately join Nato and there is nothing Putin can do about it. Its pretty sad that you guys obfuscate the issue in Putins favor.

As for Nato, here ya go.

 
BigBlueFanGA said:
Giving Putin an excuse like Ukraine joining Nato is a convenient smokescreen. Putin wants Ukraine back as part of Russia. You can play chicken and egg if you wish but the fact of the matter is Putin has acted illegally against Ukraine for more than a decade.

Now he's getting what he deserves. More border countries that will ultimately join Nato and there is nothing Putin can do about it. Its pretty sad that you guys obfuscate the issue in Putins favor.

As for Nato, here ya go.

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Of course he does. He did all along. Yet he didn't act until a line was crossed that everyone was told he drew in the sand.

These countries aren't in danger. They certainly add no value to NATO if they're added. Why risk global fallout to make moves that have literally no benefit but have potentially disastrous costs?

Let's say we're actually doing it solely to spite Putin. Why? Where is the value? There is none but again the downside is potentially disastrous.

There is no upside to any of this. Only downside, potentially catastrophic downside. No rational competent leadership would ever choose such a risk for little/no benefit. Yet here we are.
 
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bigblueinsanity said:
This is a red herring imo. I don't think any reasonable person disagrees, when viewed in a vacuum, adding Ukraine to NATO really doesn't harm anyone. Granted it doesn't really help anyone either.

The real issue is they all knew taking these steps would prompt a certain response from Russia. Putin is part mad man and part old bloc guy that has to keep up appearances.

So the real question is, knowing Russia's position was it worth taking these steps that really add no benefit, and got an anticipated military response? The answer to me is clearly no. Given the costs vs benefits, there was very little benefit to adding them and the cost was great (and couldve actually been much worse)
Click to expand...
Adding Ukraine helps Ukraine. Threatening to add Ukraine hurts Ukraine.
 
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Zelly's pre-war approval rating was 10%. Immediately following the invasion, it was purportedly 90%.

He was elected with no actual experience, just the brainwashing of it as an actor portratying a noble intelligent history professor reluctantly thrust into the presidency as ukraine's only anti-corruption hope, on a platform of bringing peace and reconciliation to donbas. Once elected, he was forced into taking the opposite stance by hardline Ukrainian nationalists and Oligarchical interests, many of whom footed the bill for his TV show.

Cui Bono.
 
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SDC888 said:
Zelly's pre-war approval rating was 10%. Immediately following the invasion, it was purportedly 90%.

He was elected with no actual experience, just the brainwashing of it as an actor portratying a noble intelligent history professor reluctantly thrust into the presidency as ukraine's only anti-corruption hope, on a platform of bringing peace and reconciliation to donbas. Once elected, he was forced into taking the opposite stance by hardline Ukrainian nationalists and Oligarchical interests, many of whom footed the bill for his TV show.

Cui Bono.
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Your numbers aren't close to correct.
 
The results mean the country is headed for a coalition government, with neither of the largest two parties winning enough support to command a parliamentary majority. If Fico’s Smer leads that coalition, it could reverse Slovakia’s strong support for Ukraine amid Russia’s invasion.

“We think Ukraine is a great tragedy for everyone involved,” Fico said in a news conference after the results were in. “And if Smer gets to form a government, we will do everything we can — also within the E.U. — to start peace talks as quickly as possible. Further killing won’t benefit anyone.” He also said Smer is prepared to continue providing humanitarian aid to Ukraine and predicted it would take two weeks to form a coalition.
...
Fico’s victory is another sign of Europe’s tilt toward populism, as the cost of living spirals and anxieties over the Ukraine war mount. It could also turn an ally in the Western response to Russia’s invasion into a spoiler, with Fico threatening to stop arms deliveries and block European Union penalties against Moscow.
...
At a polling station in the capital’s Old Town near its baroque-style castle, Peter Hladky, 56, had just voted for Fico’s Smer.


“I want a strong leader, someone who knows what he’s doing,” he said. He expressed support for Fico’s “Christian values” and his stance on Ukraine.
“How many conflicts are there in the world? And why should a country of 5 million people rush to solve them?” he said of the war over the border.


 
BigBlueFanGA said:
Doing what?
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Eurasia Group

This is Brenmer’s company. They do consulting, speaking, analysis of geopolitical situations for companies and governments. Ukraine is one of their specialties. So let’s say you are the US and you need to give $30B of aid to #TeamZelensky. You’re gonna want to know who to give it to, right? That’s where Eurasia comes in. You hire them to figure out where things should go.
 
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WayneDougan said:
Eurasia Group

This is Brenmer’s company. They do consulting, speaking, analysis of geopolitical situations for companies and governments. Ukraine is one of their specialties. So let’s say you are the US and you need to give $30B of aid to #TeamZelensky. You’re gonna want to know who to give it to, right? That’s where Eurasia comes in. You hire them to figure out where things should go.
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Ok, can you point me to the info on the money they're making?
 
BigBlueFanGA said:
Ok, can you point me to the info on the money they're making?
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In all actuality, he probably can't. He can't, because his conception of how things work is wrong. (Yeah, I'm really sure the Eurasia Group is telling DoD where it should send its Bradleys and Abrams. 🙄)

Anyway, not all that impressed with Ian Bremmer if we're being honest. Doesn't mean he wasn't wrong in his tweet, and much less of a bonehead than Sachs, Mearsheimer, Davis, etc. and the other appeasenik heroes.
 
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entropy13 said:
In all actuality, he probably can't. He can't, because his conception of how things work is wrong. (Yeah, I'm really sure the Eurasia Group is telling DoD where it should send its Bradleys and Abrams. 🙄)

Anyway, not all that impressed with Ian Bremmer if we're being honest. Doesn't mean he wasn't wrong in his tweet, and much less of a bonehead than Sachs, Mearsheimer, Davis, etc. and the other appeasenik heroes.
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A peace deal with.....russia. Someone should tell these guys Russia signed a treaty agreeing not to invade Ukraine if Ukraine gave up nukes.
 
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WayneDougan said:
I’ve been way out in front of this. People are dying because the left is mad that Hillary’s **** ass lost to Trump. There’s blood on your hands, libs.
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And your true colors come out. As well as other pro-russian people in this thread. It's not about defending a sovereign country. It's about backing up your election candidate's abroad supporters.
 
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vhcat70 said:
No different than claiming those who support Ukraine are anti-American because we could be spending same money on _________________________.
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And when the time comes to spend that money on something to help people in the country its....''these millennials need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps instead of relying on my tax dollars'.
 
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RunninRichie said:
And when the time comes to spend that money on something to help people in the country its....''these millennials need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps instead of relying on my tax dollars'.
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We aren’t the world’s police man. I would prefer it if countries didn’t invade each other, but I wouldn’t advocate giving a dollar to about 200 different countries if they were invaded.
 
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RunninRichie said:
And when the time comes to spend that money on something to help people in the country it’s....''these millennials need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps instead of relying on my tax dollars'.
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There’s so much wrong here that it’s impossible to know where to start:

-we don’t have money to spend, period. We’re headed for a default of some sort.
-we just spent trillions in borrowed money on “infrastructure”. Where is it? Why isn’t it benefitting millennials? Or anybody else?
-because we don’t piss money away on something that doesn’t matter to us doesn’t mean we would (or should) otherwise be handing it out in yet another disastrous form of entitlements.

-but the ultimate, smack your head in disbelief at the ignorance, is the apparent disconnect as to HOW the economic conditions that are making life shitty for millennials are connected to reckless spending on moronic shit like this war.
 
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JumperJack said:
It’s a far better explanation as to why we should fight Russia than anything you and your buddies have produced.

To date, there’s not been one coherent reason given as to why Russia is, or should be, our enemy.
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I'm really not surprised that you loons actually believe Biden and his admin are fighting russia because they're pissed Hillary lost. You people are real and have off-spring. Wow.
 
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