The destiny us "Baby Boomer" UK fans never wanted for our football program.

[Kampus Korner]

I've read posts in other threads about UK fans having expectations for something better as regards the future success for our football program. As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game. I suspect many of my fellow "Baby Boomers" feel similarly.

Blanton Collier was the UK football coach when I saw my first game and I'm quite sure he and the ten UK coaches who have succeeded him did their best to help make UK football meet fan expectations. What us burgeoning "Baby Boomer" UK football fans did not know in 1959 was that Blanton Collier would be the last UK coach to win more games than he lost. Ironically, UK's last winning coach was fired after the 1962 season. Two years later, as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns Collier led his team to the NFL Championship, a year before the Super Bowl was created. All ten UK coaches who followed Collier over the next 54 years have lost more games than they won. These facts are not in dispute.

Some previous UK coaches raised fan expectations more than others. John Ray had "We Believe" bumper stickers printed which tens of thousands UK fans, all over the Commonwealth, pasted on their car bumpers. Ray was the former Defensive Coordinator at Notre Dame when that school was annually one of the best three programs in the nation. Ray talked about going to bowl games (when there weren't many bowls), winning the SEC Championship and even the National Championship. Alas, these elevated expectations never matched on the field performance and Ray was fired after only 4 years.

Although Bill Curry was no where near as brash as John Ray when it came to elevating fan expectations, he nevertheless did so if only because he was the previous head coach at Alabama. Curry was 10-2 during his last year at Alabama before the took the UK job. Curry had played in the NFL starting at center for the Baltimore Colts. UK finally had a coach with nationwide name recognition. Many "Boomers" believed at the time, we no longer had any excuses for not being successful. Alas, it was not to be. Curry lasted 7 years. His best season was 6-6. His overall record was 26-52 and was only 14-40 in the SEC.

After Curry, us "Boomers" as well as other UK fans have experienced the predictable but temporary euphoria and related elevated expectations that naturally come with the hiring of any new coach. We somehow believed, despite the evolving history to the contrary, that the next new coach would cause UK to become more successful than his predecessors. It hasn't happened.

For whatever reason, be it the lack of necessary university financial support, the need for a better athletic director or a better coach, the UK football program has never been able to be much more than mediocre. To be sure, about every 10 to 15 years or so, we will have what is a breakout season for us and win 7 or 8 games. However, after such fleeting and momentary success, we quickly fall back to our losing historical legacy.

At 67 years of age and cheering for the University of Kentucky football team for parts of 7 different decades, I have resigned myself to simply appreciating the entertainment and cherishing the victories when they come. No doubt there are some fellow "Boomers" who still "believe" as John Ray urged us in 1969, that the future will become brighter for Kentucky football. I want you to be right. I also would like to see it before the time comes for me to leave this earth. I simply have no expectation it will happen.

 

[tuck66]

I've read posts in other threads about UK fans having expectations for something better as regards the future success for our football program. As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game. I suspect many of my fellow "Baby Boomers" feel similarly.

Blanton Collier was the UK football coach when I saw my first game and I'm quite sure he and the ten UK coaches who have succeeded him did their best to help make UK football meet fan expectations. What us burgeoning "Baby Boomer" UK football fans did not know in 1959 was that Blanton Collier would be the last UK coach to win more games than he lost. Ironically, UK's last winning coach was fired after the 1962 season. Two years later, as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns he led his team to the NFL Championship, a year before the Super Bowl was created. All ten UK coaches who followed Collier over next 54 years have lost more games than they won. These facts are not in dispute.

Some previous UK coaches raised fan expectations more than others. John Ray had "We Believe" bumper stickers printed which tens of thousands UK fans, all over the Commonwealth, pasted on car bumpers. Ray was the former Defensive Coordinator at Notre Dame when that school was annually one of the best three programs in the nation. Ray talked about going to bowl games (when there weren't many bowls), winning the SEC Championship and even the National Championship. Alas, these elevated expectations never matched on the field performance and Ray was fired after only 4 years.

Although Bill Curry was no where near as brash as John Ray when it came to elevating fan expectations, he nevertheless did so if only because he was the previous head coach at Alabama. Curry was 10-2 during his last year at Alabama before the took the UK job. Curry had played in the NFL starting at center for the Baltimore Colts. UK finally had a coach with nationwide name recognition. Many "Boomers" believed at the time, we no longer had any excuses for not being successful. Alas, it was not to be. Curry lasted 7 years. His best season was 6-6. His overall record was 26-52 and was only 14-40 in the SEC.

After Curry, us "Boomers" as well as other UK fans have experienced the predictable but temporary euphoria and related elevated expectations that naturally come with the hiring of any new coach. We somehow believed, despite the evolving history to the contrary, that the next new coach would cause UK to become more successful than his predecessors. It hasn't happened.

For whatever reason, be it the lack of necessary university financial support, the need for a better athletic director or a better coach, the UK football program has never been able to be much more than mediocre. To be sure, about every 10 to 15 years or so, we will have what is a breakout season for us and win 7 or 8 games. However, after such fleeting and momentary success, we quickly fall back to our losing historical legacy.

At 67 years of age and cheering for the University of Kentucky football team for parts of 7 different decades, I have resigned myself to simply appreciating the entertainment and cherishing the victories when they come. No doubt there are some fellow "Boomers" who still "believe" as John Ray urged us in 1969, that the future will become brighter for Kentucky football. I want you to be right. I also would like to see it before the time comes for me to leave this earth. I simply have no expectation it will happen.

Looking like we can expect more of the same going forward. I guess we should just be happy we're going to Birmingham. Oh well, there's always the UK swim & dive team.....

 

[crazyqx83]

It would take a transcendent coach for us to overcome our recruiting deficiences.

When we're talking about our greatest recruiting classes ever and they rank 13th, 12th, 10th and 13th out of 14 teams in the sec, are you all really wondering why we struggle to compete? Really?

Maybe if we put together a string of AT LEAST the #10 recruiting class in the sec over 4 or 5 years, we might compete.

The bottom 4 of the sec recruiting rabkings contains the following teams the following # of times over the past 5 years:

Kentucky: 4
Vandy: 5
Missouri: 5
MSU: 3
Ole Miss: 1
Arkansas: 2

It's really as simple as that.

 

[bigbluedon]

I've read posts in other threads about UK fans having expectations for something better as regards the future success for our football program. As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game. I suspect many of my fellow "Baby Boomers" feel similarly.

Blanton Collier was the UK football coach when I saw my first game and I'm quite sure he and the ten UK coaches who have succeeded him did their best to help make UK football meet fan expectations. What us burgeoning "Baby Boomer" UK football fans did not know in 1959 was that Blanton Collier would be the last UK coach to win more games than he lost. Ironically, UK's last winning coach was fired after the 1962 season. Two years later, as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns he led his team to the NFL Championship, a year before the Super Bowl was created. All ten UK coaches who followed Collier over next 54 years have lost more games than they won. These facts are not in dispute.

Some previous UK coaches raised fan expectations more than others. John Ray had "We Believe" bumper stickers printed which tens of thousands UK fans, all over the Commonwealth, pasted on car bumpers. Ray was the former Defensive Coordinator at Notre Dame when that school was annually one of the best three programs in the nation. Ray talked about going to bowl games (when there weren't many bowls), winning the SEC Championship and even the National Championship. Alas, these elevated expectations never matched on the field performance and Ray was fired after only 4 years.

Although Bill Curry was no where near as brash as John Ray when it came to elevating fan expectations, he nevertheless did so if only because he was the previous head coach at Alabama. Curry was 10-2 during his last year at Alabama before the took the UK job. Curry had played in the NFL starting at center for the Baltimore Colts. UK finally had a coach with nationwide name recognition. Many "Boomers" believed at the time, we no longer had any excuses for not being successful. Alas, it was not to be. Curry lasted 7 years. His best season was 6-6. His overall record was 26-52 and was only 14-40 in the SEC.

After Curry, us "Boomers" as well as other UK fans have experienced the predictable but temporary euphoria and related elevated expectations that naturally come with the hiring of any new coach. We somehow believed, despite the evolving history to the contrary, that the next new coach would cause UK to become more successful than his predecessors. It hasn't happened.

For whatever reason, be it the lack of necessary university financial support, the need for a better athletic director or a better coach, the UK football program has never been able to be much more than mediocre. To be sure, about every 10 to 15 years or so, we will have what is a breakout season for us and win 7 or 8 games. However, after such fleeting and momentary success, we quickly fall back to our losing historical legacy.

At 67 years of age and cheering for the University of Kentucky football team for parts of 7 different decades, I have resigned myself to simply appreciating the entertainment and cherishing the victories when they come. No doubt there are some fellow "Boomers" who still "believe" as John Ray urged us in 1969, that the future will become brighter for Kentucky football. I want you to be right. I also would like to see it before the time comes for me to leave this earth. I simply have no expectation it will happen.

I too am a boomer almost your age and agree totally. Love the kids and the program but I dont ever see it happening. Will always cheer for them and hope they win every game...Good post.

 

[UKCatnNC]

Thank you Kampus Korner. I also started following UK football when Blanton Collier was the head coach. It has been a very frustrating and disappointing time. I want so bad for us to have a respectable and consistently winning football program. That light at the end of the tunnel seems to always end up being a train. Like you, I will continue to follow them. Go Cats!!

 

[BoulderCat]

I'm a boomer to and I have never had expectations of winning the SEC or making the playoffs. What I'd like to see is us consistently win 7-9 games. We could have won 8 this year if we'd beaten S Miss and Georgia, and we should have. I think that would have more than pleased most of the fan base. It's a shame that in a year when the SEC East is so weak we couldn't take advantage for a 5-3 record. That and 8 wins would have been a huge step forward instead of the little baby step winning 6 games is going to be.

 

[Deeeefense]

I'm of that generation, and my attitude is different. I recognize that NO ONE no matter how smart they think they are, knows what will happen in the future, and history does not define the future. So I never put a "cap" on what might occur with the football program in the next decade, the next year, the next game or the next play. The only thing you can ever expect is the unexpected.

 

[VFO]

I too am a boomer almost your age and agree totally. Love the kids and the program but I dont ever see it happening. Will always cheer for them and hope they win every game...Good post.

I am same age and have followed the Cats since 1960. You have stated my sentiments exactly. Will always be a fan and hope for wins and take it as it comes from now on. Go Big Blue.

 

[LordEgg]

i get it...but who would have thought Louisville...UofL...City College...would ever compete for high level bowls, and they are on the cusp of the playoffs. Fate is an excuse designed by the already defeated. We have to press on. WE will get there. And it'll take schnellenberger type attitudes to do it. But living proof it can be done is right down the road.

 

[Deeeefense]

Fate is an excuse designed by the already defeated.

Love that quote.

 

[LordEgg]

^i thought it rolled off nicely too. lol.

 

[The-Hack]

Born in '63. At a party, once, I was introduced as a UK Football expert," and then immediately asked by the host, "if you know so much, who was the starting tailback the year you were born?"

I responded, "I can't tell you his first name, but it was a Bird brother from Corbin, either Calvin or Roger."

Hope springs eternal, and no one can say that the task is impossible.

There is one ray of sunshine, right now. While painstakingly slow, there is a clear sign of "Straight-Line" linear progress with Stoops. 2-10, 5-7, 5-7, 6-6(?) is slow, but certain progress without clear signs of regression. Look at Curry, Ray, Mumme, and even Claiborne, etc., etc., and there was not as clear an example of mounting (modest) success, over a four year time period in such a straight line, mathematically. Does this guarantee that 10 years from now we will be in the Playoffs? No, but what can?

As one example (of many I could site) what did the UK defensive ends do in the first half in Knoxville, that even NFL draftee Bud Dupree and others failed to do 2 years ago? They put that freak of a QB on the ground several times.

Was this enough? No. Even 450 yards of rushing was not enough, but still, we were closer than last year, and closer than the year before that.

I think when we look at Louisville, we envision a "miracle," having occurred. Louisville is no miracle. Louisville's success is based upon a 30 year effort that has slowly, and with few bumps, built success from prior success.

I will agree with the basic premise of the OP, to this extent: It is unlikely that UK achieves the level of football we all want, no matter what we do. And the very modest chance that exists will make it all the sweeter, when it comes.

So in the immortal words of Spock from Star Trek, Live Long and Prosper, Cat fans, especially "Live Long!"

 

[Kampus Korner]

Born in '63. At a party, once, I was introduced as a UK Football expert," and then immediately asked by the host, "if you know so much, who was the starting tailback the year you were born?"

I responded, "I can't tell you his first name, but it was a Bird brother from Corbin, either Calvin or Roger."

Hope springs eternal, and no one can say that the task is impossible.

There is one ray of sunshine, right now. While painstakingly slow, there is a clear sign of "Straight-Line" linear progress with Stoops. 2-10, 5-7, 5-7, 6-6(?) is slow, but certain progress without clear signs of regression. Look at Curry, Ray, Mumme, and even Claiborne, etc., etc., and there was not as clear an example of mounting (modest) success, over a four year time period in such a straight line, mathematically. Does this guarantee that 10 years from now we will be in the Playoffs? No, but what can?

As one example (of many I could site) what did the UK defensive ends do in the first half in Knoxville, that even NFL draftee Bud Dupree and others failed to do 2 years ago? They put that freak of a QB on the ground several times.

Was this enough? No. Even 450 yards of rushing was not enough, but still, we were closer than last year, and closer than the year before that.

I think when we look at Louisville, we envision a "miracle," having occurred. Louisville is no miracle. Louisville's success is based upon a 30 year effort that has slowly, and with few bumps, built success from prior success.

I will agree with the basic premise of the OP, to this extent: It is unlikely that UK achieves the level of football we all want, no matter what we do. And the very modest chance that exists will make it all the sweeter, when it comes.

So in the immortal words of Spock from Star Trek, Live Long and Prosper, Cat fans, especially "Live Long!"

Hack, your points are well taken. Louisville's success is certainly befuddling. Over the last 15 years, UK and UL have recruited about equally. However, in 3 out of the last 4 years UK has ranked higher than UL. UL has never had a recruiting class ranked higher than 30 in the nation. UK has more statewide support and is the flagship university for Kentucky.

UL does usually play a much weaker schedule of opponents than UK UL does not play in the SEC which historically has provided much better football competition than the ACC, The Big East, The Metro and all of the other weaker football conferences to which UL has been a member. Still, UK has lost to UL 5 times in a row. UL beat Florida in a bowl game something we haven't done in 30 years. UL's success compared to UK's failure may be explained in part but the other part is also dumbfounding.

I'm not sure your reference to Coach Claiborne and the mathematical straight line theory you suggest might have application is accurate. This is Claiborne's record at UK:


1982 Kentucky 0–10
1983 Kentucky 6–5
1984 Kentucky 9–3
1985 Kentucky 5–6
1986 Kentucky 5–5
1987 Kentucky 5–6
1988 Kentucky 5–6
1989 Kentucky 6–5
Kentucky: 41–46–3

Claiborne has been one of the more successful coaches at UK since Collier. I hope Stoops "skyrockets" to 7-5 next year but he seems to be on a path more like like Claiborne's tenure at UK.

Claiborne came to UK with outstanding credentials as a head coach. He coached Virginia Tech to 61-39-2 record and two bowl appearances before leaving to become the head coach at Maryland where he was 77-37-3, played in 7 bowl games, winning 5 of them. His 1976 Maryland team was undefeated and arguably playing for a shot at the national championship in the Cotton Bowl before losing to Houston. Regrettably, he was not able to continue his coaching success at his alma mater.

Of course, it is "possible" Stoops or some other future UK coach could make UK a consistent winner. I hope he does or they do. Also, to be clear, even as a frustrated UK football fan, I want UK's AD to keep trying to hire the best head coach and do whatever else it takes that will cause UK football to succeed more than it has since 1959, All I am saying is that after 58 years of being a fan of UK football, I don't expect it to happen.

 

[LeonThe Camel]

As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game.

After 57 years you have come to that conclusion.

 

[docholiday51]

I've read posts in other threads about UK fans having expectations for something better as regards the future success for our football program. As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game. I suspect many of my fellow "Baby Boomers" feel similarly.

Blanton Collier was the UK football coach when I saw my first game and I'm quite sure he and the ten UK coaches who have succeeded him did their best to help make UK football meet fan expectations. What us burgeoning "Baby Boomer" UK football fans did not know in 1959 was that Blanton Collier would be the last UK coach to win more games than he lost. Ironically, UK's last winning coach was fired after the 1962 season. Two years later, as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns Collier led his team to the NFL Championship, a year before the Super Bowl was created. All ten UK coaches who followed Collier over the next 54 years have lost more games than they won. These facts are not in dispute.

Some previous UK coaches raised fan expectations more than others. John Ray had "We Believe" bumper stickers printed which tens of thousands UK fans, all over the Commonwealth, pasted on their car bumpers. Ray was the former Defensive Coordinator at Notre Dame when that school was annually one of the best three programs in the nation. Ray talked about going to bowl games (when there weren't many bowls), winning the SEC Championship and even the National Championship. Alas, these elevated expectations never matched on the field performance and Ray was fired after only 4 years.

Although Bill Curry was no where near as brash as John Ray when it came to elevating fan expectations, he nevertheless did so if only because he was the previous head coach at Alabama. Curry was 10-2 during his last year at Alabama before the took the UK job. Curry had played in the NFL starting at center for the Baltimore Colts. UK finally had a coach with nationwide name recognition. Many "Boomers" believed at the time, we no longer had any excuses for not being successful. Alas, it was not to be. Curry lasted 7 years. His best season was 6-6. His overall record was 26-52 and was only 14-40 in the SEC.

After Curry, us "Boomers" as well as other UK fans have experienced the predictable but temporary euphoria and related elevated expectations that naturally come with the hiring of any new coach. We somehow believed, despite the evolving history to the contrary, that the next new coach would cause UK to become more successful than his predecessors. It hasn't happened.

For whatever reason, be it the lack of necessary university financial support, the need for a better athletic director or a better coach, the UK football program has never been able to be much more than mediocre. To be sure, about every 10 to 15 years or so, we will have what is a breakout season for us and win 7 or 8 games. However, after such fleeting and momentary success, we quickly fall back to our losing historical legacy.

At 67 years of age and cheering for the University of Kentucky football team for parts of 7 different decades, I have resigned myself to simply appreciating the entertainment and cherishing the victories when they come. No doubt there are some fellow "Boomers" who still "believe" as John Ray urged us in 1969, that the future will become brighter for Kentucky football. I want you to be right. I also would like to see it before the time comes for me to leave this earth. I simply have no expectation it will happen.

Count me in this crowd as well,I think one has to have lived it( UK football fandom) to understand it.You have captured the essence of what UK football is and is not for the past 60 years,us old timers get it.

A few thoughts on the current situation.Mark Stoops, as bad as things have gone in the second half of the past two seasons is off to a better start than most (if not all) the previous coaches of the era we are talking about. It is anyone's guess where we go from here.As long as we are in the SEC 7-5 or 8-4 is about as good as we are going to do.The younger fans can jump up and down and have as big of a fit as they like about accepting average but 60 years of history pretty much tell you where we stand.

I support the kids that take the field in blue and white,I want the coaches to be successful and represent UK with class and integrity. It is a tough job here,it always has been and probably always will be.Brooks got as close to getting over the hump as anyone has during my lifetime as a fan,if a coach could replicate that without having to go 2-10 getting started then he would be a success

Stoops may or may not be on his way to doing that,I don't want to start over right now in case he is able to do it.

I remember the years of 3-7 or 2-8 when we celebrated a sack by Dave Roller as a season high point or Dicky Lyons running 30 yards for a six yard gain. We have been there seen that and are still here waiting for next year,so don't tell us what kind of fans we should be or how we should feel about UK football.We have already been that fan and felt that way about 6 times over.

 

[jauk11]

Looking like we can expect more of the same going forward. I guess we should just be happy we're going to Birmingham. Oh well, there's always the UK swim & dive team.....

This is BS: "Looking like we can expect more of the same going forward"

How many players do we lose going into 17, and who knows, Barker could come back and be a huge factor. In any case our QB position (biggest question mark now?) should be much improved.

I think three OOC wins next year are a given, and probably four, seven wins would be nice and steady progress but I see eight as a real possibility next year.

 

[crazyqx83]

I'm of that generation, and my attitude is different. I recognize that NO ONE no matter how smart they think they are, knows what will happen in the future, and history does not define the future. So I never put a "cap" on what might occur with the football program in the next decade, the next year, the next game or the next play. The only thing you can ever expect is the unexpected.

Optimistic yet ridiculous position.

When you recruit like thr bottom of the SEC, you end up in the bottom of the SEC.

Over 1 play, 1 game, 1 month you might end up with a fluke. Over a season, a decade, a century: you are largely going to play like the sum of your players and coaches. When you get a good coach and good recruits, you dominate schools like Kentucky. When you get a great coach and great recruits you end up as the 2010's Alabama.

Why do our fans constantly ignore this? You all want 8 or 9 (or ridiculously even 10+) wins and we have 6 or 7 win players... It would be like going to a Tarantino movie and expecting a lighthearted romcom. Why do you all do this to yourselves?

 

[crazyqx83]

i get it...but who would have thought Louisville...UofL...City College...would ever compete for high level bowls, and they are on the cusp of the playoffs. Fate is an excuse designed by the already defeated. We have to press on. WE will get there. And it'll take schnellenberger type attitudes to do it. But living proof it can be done is right down the road.

They play an embarrassing schedule. Look at it. They've played 2 ranked teams this year and are 1-1 (the win came against a team that will likely have 4 losses at the end of the year and came in what was probably the biggest home game in school history). They have 1 great player and very solid players around him. They have admittedly a great coach whom nobody else wanted because he is a bottom 5 character among coaches in an admittedly sleazy sport.

I mean, UofL has played 3 teams so far with a winning record in 10 games. They are "world's ahead of us" but are basically right where we are. Beating the bad teams below them and wondering why they can't get over the hump to a division title. Difference is, they have a schedule full of awful teams.

Trade Lamar Jackson for Stephen Johnson and have us trade schedules. We are basically 1 player and an abysmal schedule from being them.

 

[mrschwump]

I've read posts in other threads about UK fans having expectations for something better as regards the future success for our football program. As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game. I suspect many of my fellow "Baby Boomers" feel similarly.

Blanton Collier was the UK football coach when I saw my first game and I'm quite sure he and the ten UK coaches who have succeeded him did their best to help make UK football meet fan expectations. What us burgeoning "Baby Boomer" UK football fans did not know in 1959 was that Blanton Collier would be the last UK coach to win more games than he lost. Ironically, UK's last winning coach was fired after the 1962 season. Two years later, as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns Collier led his team to the NFL Championship, a year before the Super Bowl was created. All ten UK coaches who followed Collier over the next 54 years have lost more games than they won. These facts are not in dispute.

Some previous UK coaches raised fan expectations more than others. John Ray had "We Believe" bumper stickers printed which tens of thousands UK fans, all over the Commonwealth, pasted on their car bumpers. Ray was the former Defensive Coordinator at Notre Dame when that school was annually one of the best three programs in the nation. Ray talked about going to bowl games (when there weren't many bowls), winning the SEC Championship and even the National Championship. Alas, these elevated expectations never matched on the field performance and Ray was fired after only 4 years.

Although Bill Curry was no where near as brash as John Ray when it came to elevating fan expectations, he nevertheless did so if only because he was the previous head coach at Alabama. Curry was 10-2 during his last year at Alabama before the took the UK job. Curry had played in the NFL starting at center for the Baltimore Colts. UK finally had a coach with nationwide name recognition. Many "Boomers" believed at the time, we no longer had any excuses for not being successful. Alas, it was not to be. Curry lasted 7 years. His best season was 6-6. His overall record was 26-52 and was only 14-40 in the SEC.

After Curry, us "Boomers" as well as other UK fans have experienced the predictable but temporary euphoria and related elevated expectations that naturally come with the hiring of any new coach. We somehow believed, despite the evolving history to the contrary, that the next new coach would cause UK to become more successful than his predecessors. It hasn't happened.

For whatever reason, be it the lack of necessary university financial support, the need for a better athletic director or a better coach, the UK football program has never been able to be much more than mediocre. To be sure, about every 10 to 15 years or so, we will have what is a breakout season for us and win 7 or 8 games. However, after such fleeting and momentary success, we quickly fall back to our losing historical legacy.

At 67 years of age and cheering for the University of Kentucky football team for parts of 7 different decades, I have resigned myself to simply appreciating the entertainment and cherishing the victories when they come. No doubt there are some fellow "Boomers" who still "believe" as John Ray urged us in 1969, that the future will become brighter for Kentucky football. I want you to be right. I also would like to see it before the time comes for me to leave this earth. I simply have no expectation it will happen.

I'm with you. I'm 70, sure would like to see a big UK winner before I head off to that Big End Zone In The Sky.

 

[Kampus Korner]

Optimistic yet ridiculous position.

When you recruit like thr bottom of the SEC, you end up in the bottom of the SEC.

Over 1 play, 1 game, 1 month you might end up with a fluke. Over a season, a decade, a century: you are largely going to play like the sum of your players and coaches. When you get a good coach and good recruits, you dominate schools like Kentucky. When you get a great coach and great recruits you end up as the 2010's Alabama.

Why do our fans constantly ignore this? You all want 8 or 9 (or ridiculously even 10+) wins and we have 6 or 7 win players... It would be like going to a Tarantino movie and expecting a lighthearted romcom. Why do you all do this to yourselves?

Crazy, I laughed out loud at your Tarantino/romcom analogy. Additionally, your points about the correlation of recruiting better players as a necessary prerequisite to achieving better results is axiomatic and the undisputed truth.

 

[docholiday51]

Looking like we can expect more of the same going forward. I guess we should just be happy we're going to Birmingham. Oh well, there's always the UK swim & dive team.....

Yes we can expect more of the same and yes we should be happy going anywhere to a bowl game,as for the swim&dive team I'll leave that to you I'm a football and basketball fan,UK football will never make you happy,some of us have been waiting a long time for 1977 to repeat itself

 

[WildCard]

Nice post Kampus. FWIW your fandom precedes mine by a few years (I started with Bradshaw). Although I attended UofL I was primarily a UK football fan and attended many UK games while at UofL and after moving back to the city in the early 70s. That began to change in 1985 when Howard Schnellenberger was hired. (FWIW, I'm still a UK football fan but a UofL fan "first".)

It is not a stretch to say UofL football "began" in 1985. There was serious consideration of dropping football during my school years (mid-60s) as well as the immediate pre-Schnellenberger years (early 80s). I had the occasion to meet Howard several times and let me say this, the man is larger than life. By sheer force of personality he somehow made the school, the community and the then handful of fans believe that UofL could be "a major player" in college football.

There are probably some UK fans wondering how UofL football get "so good so fast". Well, we can dispute how good they are but it has not been very fast; it has taken 30+ years to get where they are today. While there have been some steps back since Howard coached the overall trend has been up. And for the past 15+ years or so Tom Jurich has been an outstanding administrator to not only secure but advance what Howard started.

I still believe UK can mimic UofL's "success". I think the vision and the resources are there. I recall when first CWS, then the Nutter Field House, then CWS expansion were all called as being "the missing piece of the puzzle". Truly turning things around at UK is not going to be a quick 4 or 5 year job. It will take time and there will be bumps in the road. But it must begin with a coach that can galvanize the fan base and, maybe more importantly, simply has a knack for doing more with less.

Peace

 

[JDHoss]

In my years of fandom:

* John Ray was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Fran Curci was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Jerry Claiborne finally hired to clean up Curci's mess, but in the twilight of his career.

* Bill Curry hired, but no money provided to Curry so he could hire and retain good assistants.

* David Cutcliffe wanted the job when Curry was let go, but Cash Money Newton went the cheap route instead and hired Dumme and his band of high school coaches, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[sluggercatfan]

In my years of fandom:

* John Ray was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Fran Curci was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Jerry Claiborne finally hired to clean up Curci's mess, but in the twilight of his career.

* Bill Curry hired, but no money provided to Curry so he could hire and retain good assistants.

* David Cutcliffe wanted the job when Curry was let go, but Cash Money Newton went the cheap route instead and hired Dumme and his band of high school coaches, and we all know how that turned out.

You forgot the biggest mistake of all!!! Not hiring Howard Schnellenburger

 

[crestcat]

Nice post Kampus. FWIW your fandom precedes mine by a few years (I started with Bradshaw). Although I attended UofL I was primarily a UK football fan and attended many UK games while at UofL and after moving back to the city in the early 70s. That began to change in 1985 when Howard Schnellenberger was hired. (FWIW, I'm still a UK football fan but a UofL fan "first".)

It is not a stretch to say UofL football "began" in 1985. There was serious consideration of dropping football during my school years (mid-60s) as well as the immediate pre-Schnellenberger years (early 80s). I had the occasion to meet Howard several times and let me say this, the man is bigger than life. By sheer force of personality he somehow made the school, the community and the then handful of fans that UofL believe that UofL could be "a major player" in college football.

There are probably some UK fans wondering how UofL football get "so good so fast". Well, we can dispute how good they are but it has not been very fast; it has taken 30+ years to get where they are today. While there have been some steps back since Howard coached the overall trend has been up. And for the past 15+ years or so Tom Jurich has been an outstanding administrator to not only secure but advance what Howard started.

I still believe UK can mimic UofL's "success". I think the vision and the resources are there. I recall when first CWS, then the Nutter Field House, then CWS expansion were all called as being "the missing piece of the puzzle". Truly turning things around at UK is not going to be a quick 4 or 5 year job. It will take time and there will be bumps in the road. But it must begin with a coach that can galvanize the fan base and, maybe more importantly, simply has a knack for doing more with less.

Peace

To use nice language, our AD's have always been "too timid" to hire a coach like Schnelly. Larger than life would scare them to death.

 

[docholiday51]

In my years of fandom:

* John Ray was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Fran Curci was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Jerry Claiborne finally hired to clean up Curci's mess, but in the twilight of his career.

* Bill Curry hired, but no money provided to Curry so he could hire and retain good assistants.

* David Cutcliffe wanted the job when Curry was let go, but Cash Money Newton went the cheap route instead and hired Dumme and his band of high school coaches, and we all know how that turned out.

Guilty on all counts,funny how one misstep can cause a program to fall off the path into the deep woods,if you want to go back one step Bradshaw was a terrible hire(trying to find the next Bear Bryant is tough there just isn't that many of them)

 

[CB3UK]

Yeah...its definitely no secret that the Jimmies and Joes have always been our problem. Since this is Kentucky....basketball is always the soup du jour so here goes: We pretty much always recruit at the Billy Gillispie level. Occasionally we get late year Tubby recruiting. We have tried the Sutton methods and been busted. We will never get the Cal recruits. What we need is someone to walk in here at the right moment in time like Pitino and get some 3* guys to really pull together, a la the Unforgettables, and land some difference makers like Monster Mash and use that foundation to start pulling in more 4* guys that competing in the SEC demands in order to compete.

 

[The-Hack]

Kampus, good posts, all.

I meant no disrespect to Coach Claiborne, but your response, closely examined, reveals the math I was speaking of. Focusing on the 4 year time period, there was a sign of a step backwards in 1985 . . . . the 4th year . . . . a 5 win season following an 8 win season . . . . that led to repeated 5 win seasons.

One can argue the stuff we've seen/heard for years . . . . Claiborne had it better/worse because of scheduling . . . . etc.

But, for four years running, we've held even or improved each year under Stoops. Does 6 wins automatically carry us to 7 next year? And 8 the year after?

And 20 in another 14 years?

No.

But given that the leaders on this team are almost entirely red-shirt sophomores, true Juniors, or younger, I cannot get with the crowd that wants a change this year, or is bemoaning (completely) our chances of continued improvement, or acting as though the more patient among us are not "expecting" or "wanting" enough.

No one wants more for UK football than I do. But any talk of getting rid of Stoops (and Kampus, I'm not talking about you, here) and subjecting the program to our typical "lather, rinse and repeat," and losing a couple of folks to the NFL that MIGHT otherwise stick around to finish what they started with Stoops, just makes little sense at this point. (And is one heck of a run-on sentence!).

Where would I draw the line? If by the time the Boom Williams, Denzil Ware class graduates, if we've seen no better than a 7 win regular season, probably time to move on.

 

[Deeeefense]

Optimistic yet ridiculous position.

When you recruit like thr bottom of the SEC, you end up in the bottom of the SEC.

Over 1 play, 1 game, 1 month you might end up with a fluke. Over a season, a decade, a century: you are largely going to play like the sum of your players and coaches. When you get a good coach and good recruits, you dominate schools like Kentucky. When you get a great coach and great recruits you end up as the 2010's Alabama.

Why do our fans constantly ignore this? You all want 8 or 9 (or ridiculously even 10+) wins and we have 6 or 7 win players... It would be like going to a Tarantino movie and expecting a lighthearted romcom. Why do you all do this to yourselves?

How is "I don't claim to know" optimistic? or anything else for that matter?

Our relative rankings in the SEC recruiting pecking order the last few years has nothing to do with how the team might perform in the next 10 years or next year. It was already noted above that UofL has never had better than a top 30 class yet they have been in the Top 10 all year. How do you know we don't win 8 games next year and then sign a top 15 class, win 9 a couple of years later and sign a top 10 class in 4 or 5 years. you DON'T know and neither does anyone else. This entire relative ranking argument is mostly crap anyway. There is no more than 1/10 of a star difference from our rankings and half of the other teams, but those that advance that argument act like it's a gigantic inhibiting factor.

The fact that Kentucky has not been very good in football historically does not mean we are condemned to football hell for eternity. Stuff happens. We may never win more than 7 games for the next century or we might establish a football dynasty.

 

[mtn cat1]

kes his coaching & organizational skills to that school 90 miles West of UK & we
now know the significance of that brilliant stroke of genius! WE now experience the Curry & Mummy years along with probation again! We are fortunate to get an "old war horse from Oregon" that bails us out of that horrendous period! Coach Brooks brings the program back from near death to a series of Bowl Games only to be followed by the "Coach in waiting", Joker, or some refer to as the "the Joke", !!!! We know how that turned-out!!! This brings us to our current status & Coach Stoops! (PLEASE NOTE: I did not make reference one time to UK's AD's during all this diatribe but that's a story for another day, suffice it to say "it has a direct bearing" on FB's success)

 

[SanAntonioCat]

I go back to 1952 when I was seven years old and one Saturday evening listened to something called the Standard Oil Network. I was a fan that day and asked my dad where was Lexington? My first game at Stoll Field was the 1954 Auburn game. They were the Tigers or Plainsmen in those days.

I was a 1962 freshman when Blanton Collier was pushed out the door. Bernie Shively was AD and he wanted another "Bear Bryant." He hired Charlie Bradshaw over Jerry Claiborne, a decision that would haunt UK football to this day. Had Jerry Claiborne been hired in 1962, this thread would never need to be written.

 

[docholiday51]

I go back to 1952 when I was seven years old and one Saturday evening listened to something called the Standard Oil Network. I was a fan that day and asked my dad where was Lexington? My first game at Stoll Field was the 1954 Auburn game. They were the Tigers or Plainsmen in those days.

I was a 1962 freshman when Blanton Collier was pushed out the door. Bernie Shively was AD and he wanted another "Bear Bryant." He hired Charlie Bradshaw over Jerry Claiborne, a decision that would haunt UK football to this day. Had Jerry Claiborne been hired in 1962, this thread would never need to be written.

There are a lot of threads that wouldn't have been written and some football history that would have been rewritten
Dale Lindsey would have been a star at UK not WKU,the thin 30 might have been the fat 50 and the wide tackle six might have won the SEC a time or two

 

[JDHoss]

You forgot the biggest mistake of all!!! Not hiring Howard Schnellenburger

Could have hired either in their prime, and this turns out much different.

 

[Kampus Korner]

In my years of fandom:

* John Ray was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Fran Curci was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Jerry Claiborne finally hired to clean up Curci's mess, but in the twilight of his career.

* Bill Curry hired, but no money provided to Curry so he could hire and retain good assistants.

* David Cutcliffe wanted the job when Curry was let go, but Cash Money Newton went the cheap route instead and hired Dumme and his band of high school coaches, and we all know how that turned out.

In my years of fandom:

* John Ray was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Fran Curci was hired when it should have been Jerry Claiborne.

* Jerry Claiborne finally hired to clean up Curci's mess, but in the twilight of his career.

* Bill Curry hired, but no money provided to Curry so he could hire and retain good assistants.

* David Cutcliffe wanted the job when Curry was let go, but Cash Money Newton went the cheap route instead and hired Dumme and his band of high school coaches, and we all know how that turned out.

JD, You are right on point about Jerry Claiborne. He wanted to come to UK all the times you mentioned. I think our football program would have been much different had he been hired much earlier.

There are a lot of threads that wouldn't have been written and some football history that would have been rewritten

 

[Kampus Korner]

There are a lot of threads that wouldn't have been written and some football history that would have been rewritten

To quote former coach Claiborne, "It's the old 'iffin game', that is to say, 'iffin they had hired Jerry back in the day, we would probably be a top echelon program in the SEC today. Think what would have happened if UK had hired another "Billy Gillispie" type after getting rid of the original Billy Gillispie. Sometimes, repeated bad selections for a critical position can create a stigma to any organization which can't be fully overcome.

 

[docholiday51]

To quote former coach Claiborne, "It's the old 'iffin game', that is to say, 'iffin they had hired Jerry back in the day, we would probably be a top echelon program in the SEC today. Think what would have happened if UK had hired another "Billy Gillispie" type after getting rid of the original Billy Gillispie. Sometimes, repeated bad selections for a critical position can create a stigma to any organization which can't be fully overcome.

iffin we had beat Southern Miss and UGA Mark Stoops probably would wearing a Houndstooth hat

 

[Gene1864]

The AD has killed us for decades

 

[crazyqx83]

How is "I don't claim to know" optimistic? or anything else for that matter?

Our relative rankings in the SEC recruiting pecking order the last few years has nothing to do with how the team might perform in the next 10 years or next year. It was already noted above that UofL has never had better than a top 30 class yet they have been in the Top 10 all year. How do you know we don't win 8 games next year and then sign a top 15 class, win 9 a couple of years later and sign a top 10 class in 4 or 5 years. you DON'T know and neither does anyone else. This entire relative ranking argument is mostly crap anyway. There is no more than 1/10 of a star difference from our rankings and half of the other teams, but those that advance that argument act like it's a gigantic inhibiting factor.

The fact that Kentucky has not been very good in football historically does not mean we are condemned to football hell for eternity. Stuff happens. We may never win more than 7 games for the next century or we might establish a football dynasty.

1. Louisville has been in the top 10 all year because they have played only 3 teams with winning records. They lost to the 9-1 team and beat the 7-3 team (who also has all their wins against a terrible schedule) and the 6-4 team (who has 6 of their wins against a terrible schedule). You all look strictly at record and ranking a completely ignore how awful those wins were piled up against.

2. Our recruiting will not drastically improve because recruiting is regional and our state is a terrible recryiting base.

3. The only football dynasties that have come from mediocrity in the past 100+ years are in areas that have experienced huge population booms (florida schools for example). Name one other program that has risen from nowhere and sustained success. We have 0 chance of doing it. It's delusional to think otherwise. I love thr cats because i grew up in lexington and I'm an alum. I'll always support them, but you all that raise your blood pressure year after year after year after year that the cats fall flat, are just denying the inevitable.

 

[Deeeefense]

1. Louisville has been in the top 10 all year because they have played only 3 teams with winning records. They lost to the 9-1 team and beat the 7-3 team (who also has all their wins against a terrible schedule) and the 6-4 team (who has 6 of their wins against a terrible schedule). You all look strictly at record and ranking a completely ignore how awful those wins were piled up against.

They beat Florida State 63-20 but they still aren't all that good? OK, lots of luck with that argument.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

I've read posts in other threads about UK fans having expectations for something better as regards the future success for our football program. As someone who became a UK fan in 1959, when I saw my first game at the old Stoll Field, I regretfully have to confess that I no longer harbor expectations that the UK football program will ever become any better than what its history has demonstrated since I attended my first UK game. I suspect many of my fellow "Baby Boomers" feel similarly.

Blanton Collier was the UK football coach when I saw my first game and I'm quite sure he and the ten UK coaches who have succeeded him did their best to help make UK football meet fan expectations. What us burgeoning "Baby Boomer" UK football fans did not know in 1959 was that Blanton Collier would be the last UK coach to win more games than he lost. Ironically, UK's last winning coach was fired after the 1962 season. Two years later, as the head coach of the Cleveland Browns Collier led his team to the NFL Championship, a year before the Super Bowl was created. All ten UK coaches who followed Collier over the next 54 years have lost more games than they won. These facts are not in dispute.

Some previous UK coaches raised fan expectations more than others. John Ray had "We Believe" bumper stickers printed which tens of thousands UK fans, all over the Commonwealth, pasted on their car bumpers. Ray was the former Defensive Coordinator at Notre Dame when that school was annually one of the best three programs in the nation. Ray talked about going to bowl games (when there weren't many bowls), winning the SEC Championship and even the National Championship. Alas, these elevated expectations never matched on the field performance and Ray was fired after only 4 years.

Although Bill Curry was no where near as brash as John Ray when it came to elevating fan expectations, he nevertheless did so if only because he was the previous head coach at Alabama. Curry was 10-2 during his last year at Alabama before the took the UK job. Curry had played in the NFL starting at center for the Baltimore Colts. UK finally had a coach with nationwide name recognition. Many "Boomers" believed at the time, we no longer had any excuses for not being successful. Alas, it was not to be. Curry lasted 7 years. His best season was 6-6. His overall record was 26-52 and was only 14-40 in the SEC.

After Curry, us "Boomers" as well as other UK fans have experienced the predictable but temporary euphoria and related elevated expectations that naturally come with the hiring of any new coach. We somehow believed, despite the evolving history to the contrary, that the next new coach would cause UK to become more successful than his predecessors. It hasn't happened.

For whatever reason, be it the lack of necessary university financial support, the need for a better athletic director or a better coach, the UK football program has never been able to be much more than mediocre. To be sure, about every 10 to 15 years or so, we will have what is a breakout season for us and win 7 or 8 games. However, after such fleeting and momentary success, we quickly fall back to our losing historical legacy.

At 67 years of age and cheering for the University of Kentucky football team for parts of 7 different decades, I have resigned myself to simply appreciating the entertainment and cherishing the victories when they come. No doubt there are some fellow "Boomers" who still "believe" as John Ray urged us in 1969, that the future will become brighter for Kentucky football. I want you to be right. I also would like to see it before the time comes for me to leave this earth. I simply have no expectation it will happen.

When I entered UK as a student Blanton Collier was head voach. I have gone down the road with you and understand. I agree with everything you said and was one who had a We Believe bunper sticker on my car. I have no exlectations