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Should we go back to the platoon system?

BigSexyCat

Senior
Nov 29, 2008
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It seems like since we went away from that style we have struggled. I know Alex going down made that system a little harder implement but it seems like the players thrived in that concept. I also think it kept egos in check.

This post was edited on 1/12 2:29 PM by BigSexyCat
 
Keeps ALL the players happy and sure seemed to work.
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I don't see why not. Hawkins and Willis are going to need minutes this year to give us some experience next year.

Is it so bad if both platoons have 4 stand-out players and 1 pretty solid guy? I don't think that makes either position or platoon weak. Hey, 2 less players who are trying to bolt for the NBA and won't be concerned with touches. Maybe it would be good to put Willis and Hawkins into the mix.
 
Other than Johnson and Lee, no one's minutes have been cut. I think Cal wants to play DJ especially, but man he has to step up and show up to play to start. I give him mad props for the OT performance, but we need that when he comes in. He can be such a good enforcer down low and has some good low post moves, not sure what has happened to him lately.
 
The platoon system as we knew it, is done. And I'm not referring to Alex's injury. I'm sure Cal will continue to platoon at the 4 minute mark, etc. But I think he'll settle into a rotation of 8.5 people, with Marcus Lee getting bigger minutes depending on the matchup. JMO
 
Originally posted by LineSkiCat:
I don't see why not. Hawkins and Willis are going to need minutes this year to give us some experience next year.

Is it so bad if both platoons have 4 stand-out players and 1 pretty solid guy? I don't think that makes either position or platoon weak. Hey, 2 less players who are trying to bolt for the NBA and won't be concerned with touches. Maybe it would be good to put Willis and Hawkins into the mix.
So, which of the superior talented 9 players in front of them are you suggesting we bench to make room or these "two solid guys" in the 2 platoon rotation?
 
Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:

Originally posted by LineSkiCat:
I don't see why not. Hawkins and Willis are going to need minutes this year to give us some experience next year.

Is it so bad if both platoons have 4 stand-out players and 1 pretty solid guy? I don't think that makes either position or platoon weak. Hey, 2 less players who are trying to bolt for the NBA and won't be concerned with touches. Maybe it would be good to put Willis and Hawkins into the mix.
So, which of the superior talented 9 players in front of them are you suggesting we bench to make room or these "two solid guys" in the 2 platoon rotation?
Exactly . Our Platoon is 9 men until the last 6-7 minutes in blow outs then those 2 get in.
 
I don't see what's happening now to be very different from what Cal was doing against our non-conference schedule once Poythress was injured.

Our current struggles are not because of Cal's substitution patterns.
 
Originally posted by The_Godfather:
I don't see what's happening now to be very different from what Cal was doing against our non-conference schedule once Poythress was injured.

Our current struggles are not because of Cal's substitution patterns.
Exactly. Judging by opponent strength, kentucky actually played 3 of its best 4 games of the year in the 3 games after Poythress was injured.
 
Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:

Originally posted by LineSkiCat:
I don't see why not. Hawkins and Willis are going to need minutes this year to give us some experience next year.

Is it so bad if both platoons have 4 stand-out players and 1 pretty solid guy? I don't think that makes either position or platoon weak. Hey, 2 less players who are trying to bolt for the NBA and won't be concerned with touches. Maybe it would be good to put Willis and Hawkins into the mix.
So, which of the superior talented 9 players in front of them are you suggesting we bench to make room or these "two solid guys" in the 2 platoon rotation?
Miscounted. So throw in Willis for Poythress' spot. The rest of my statement stands..
 
Originally posted by BigSexyCat:
It seems like since we went away from that style we have struggled. I know Alex going down made that system a little harder implement but it seems like the players thrived in that concept. I also think it kept egos in check.


This post was edited on 1/12 2:29 PM by BigSexyCat
Yes, it worked why change, if the last two games are any indication, they can't play any worse in the platoon. I think they played with more energy in the platoon system. Now they look flat and tired.
 
Yes we should but won't ever happen. Cal wants to play 8.5 and that's it. Platooning kept him from deciding so much on subbing situations and kept the players fresh and ready to play and practice!
 
Originally posted by trinity45:
Originally posted by BigSexyCat:
It seems like since we went away from that style we have struggled. I know Alex going down made that system a little harder implement but it seems like the players thrived in that concept. I also think it kept egos in check.


This post was edited on 1/12 2:29 PM by BigSexyCat
Yes, it worked why change, if the last two games are any indication, they can't play any worse in the platoon. I think they played with more energy in the platoon system. Now they look flat and tired.
yes they did
 
Originally posted by LineSkiCat:
I don't see why not. Hawkins and Willis are going to need minutes this year to give us some experience next year.

Is it so bad if both platoons have 4 stand-out players and 1 pretty solid guy? I don't think that makes either position or platoon weak. Hey, 2 less players who are trying to bolt for the NBA and won't be concerned with touches. Maybe it would be good to put Willis and Hawkins into the mix.
Naw, ulis and booker will be back..there's the gaurd spots. I suppose lee, poythress, maybe lyles, will be back...so nope Willis doesn't "need" minutes either.
 
FWIW, my suggestion has nothing to do with the fact that we need Willis or Hawkins in any way, though I think it might help us in some ways. However, it has to do with getting them prepped for next year or in the event another player goes out with an injury.

How nice would it be to run the platoon again next year, with 2 sets of 5 guys? To do that, we'd most likely need to insert these guys into the line-up.
 
Coach Cal already said he was not running the platoon next season and beyond. This was a one year thing most likely.

Plus, we'd have a much weaker 2nd 5 next year than this year so it would not work as well.
 
Well if were going to scrap it all the way let's just go with best players. Start Uliis, Booker, Aaron, Willie & Karl. Rotate Andrew in for the guards and Lyles in for the post players. Team chemistry might go to hell but oh well.
 
We are struggling because Cal has basically stopped platooning. For the life of me I just think its a terrible move. Again, that's why we are struggling whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Its crazy to go away from what separated us from everyone else.
 
Originally posted by BigSexyCat:
It seems like since we went away from that style we have struggled. I know Alex going down made that system a little harder implement but it seems like the players thrived in that concept. I also think it kept egos in check.


This post was edited on 1/12 2:29 PM by BigSexyCat
We played faster and with platoon teams we picked up full court and totally wore the other team out. Yes I say we need to try the platoon teams again picking up full court. We played our best with it.
 
Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:
Coach Cal already said he was not running the platoon next season and beyond. This was a one year thing most likely.

Plus, we'd have a much weaker 2nd 5 next year than this year so it would not work as well.
it all depends who comes back and who stays as you know if we sign Brown/Newman/Maker/Zimmerman/Briscoe/Skal/Matthews with Poy/Willis/Hawkins/Booker/Ulis/Lee back Cal will have to run platoon .
 
Surely Booker/Lyles/AaHarrison can split the 20 minutes made available with the Poythress injury. Would only cost them around 6 minutes a piece. I think Cal has been using it, but gets away from it a little as the game goes on. Whatever they continue to do I just want them to get better and better. Who plays what minutes will take care of itself.
 
How would the platoon help? The problem is we have no offense. The defense continues to be fine. Teams are game planning to take away our advantages and we aren't adjusting well.
 
Originally posted by michaeluk26:
We are struggling because Cal has basically stopped platooning. For the life of me I just think its a terrible move. Again, that's why we are struggling whether anyone wants to admit it or not. Its crazy to go away from what separated us from everyone else.
this is of coarse the truth .
 
Originally posted by Hoskins91:
How would the platoon help? The problem is we have no offense. The defense continues to be fine. Teams are game planning to take away our advantages and we aren't adjusting well.
Because DJ and Lee are offensive juggernauts and will make our team start scoring at will platoon style baby!

Less minutes for Towns and WCS is the way to go for this bunch clearly.

I agree with you, sarcasm above lol
 
I thought Cal was pleased how Willis and Hawkins played in the Pre-Season Bahamas trip when they were in the platoon system with Lyles and WCS out during the bahamas games. I would use Willis, WCS, Towns, Harrison Twins, and then have Ullis, Booker, Lyles, Johnson, and Lee. That was how he was doing it in the bahamas pre-season games and we all know that the Competition that UK played there was decent and past NCAA players that were playing were good competition against us. Both Willis and Hawkins played extremely well in the Pre-Season Bahamas Games. It wouldn't hurt to give it a shot and see if it helps get us back to where we were playing before the UL game.
 
I definitely think we should platoon again. I remember Cal saying earlier in the year that platooning hides player deficiencies. If you're playing 20 min instead of 30-35 you hide those bad stretches from players. And that's why I think we've looked so bad the past two games. Instead of guys playing at a very high level for 4-5 min then platooning, we're seeng guys play extended minutes and hitting a wall and struggling. Just my opinion.
 
The Platoon allowed the players to play balls to the wall defense in 4 minute increments, and it kept them fresh. The defense has suffered in last two games, they got outscored in paint by a wide margin for whatever reason.

I think the hesitancy to play Willis or Hawkins kept Cal from staying with true platoons. The Missouri game would be a good time to reinstall it.
 
Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:

Originally posted by Hoskins91:
How would the platoon help? The problem is we have no offense. The defense continues to be fine. Teams are game planning to take away our advantages and we aren't adjusting well.
Because DJ and Lee are offensive juggernauts and will make our team start scoring at will platoon style baby!

Less minutes for Towns and WCS is the way to go for this bunch clearly.

I agree with you, sarcasm above lol

While taking minutes away from better players seems like a problem, many would argue that the benefit you're getting from a fresh WCS/Towns/Johnson/Lee for 40 mins is greater than WCS and Towns playing 30+ minutes and suffering fatigue.

The evidence to base this on is that the team was steamrolling opponents both in the Bahamas and the early part of the schedule using the 5-in, 5-out strategy. We've been getting away from it more and more each game since Poy went out and our margin of victory has been steadily decreasing - the last two games obviously being the worst. I just don't get why you would want to go away from something that helped get the team off to a historically good start unless you think they will get even better. Personally, I don't think the top 8 on this team are better than the top 8 on the 2010 and 2012 squads. We were getting better results than those teams using the platoon strategy.. Without it, our ceiling is a little less than theirs in my honest opinion.

I look for us to win by 12-15 tonight if Cal continues to use the 8.5 man rotation. Still a double-digit win, but nowhere near the 28-point spread Vegas originally determined using our results from the early part of the season.
 
Originally posted by caneintally:
we havent gone away from it the games have just been to close . tomorrow i expect to see platoon all the way thru as Mizzou sucks . WE will platoon until we have another close game which i think will be at USC next.
That's a nice thought, and it gets repeated here, but we've been "going away from it" if the game is close 5 minutes into the game.
 
Originally posted by blue_kentucky_boy:


Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:


Originally posted by Hoskins91:
How would the platoon help? The problem is we have no offense. The defense continues to be fine. Teams are game planning to take away our advantages and we aren't adjusting well.
Because DJ and Lee are offensive juggernauts and will make our team start scoring at will platoon style baby!

Less minutes for Towns and WCS is the way to go for this bunch clearly.

I agree with you, sarcasm above lol

While taking minutes away from better players seems like a problem, many would argue that the benefit you're getting from a fresh WCS/Towns/Johnson/Lee for 40 mins is greater than WCS and Towns playing 30+ minutes and suffering fatigue.

The evidence to base this on is that the team was steamrolling opponents both in the Bahamas and the early part of the schedule using the 5-in, 5-out strategy.
We were also getting far better individual play out of some of these guys. Andrew played better in the first 10 games of the season. Towns played better. Dakari played much better. WCS was at least a threat on offense.

A lot of that has gone away. It doesn't matter if you sub five-for-five or play the same group for 40 minutes if you aren't getting high-level play from individual guys.

The poor play is starting very early in games before the platoons have even had time to set in, so I don't believe the sub patterns are the reason for the poor play. I think Cal wants to play a rotation of 9, but to do it certain players have to simply perform better. The platoon discussion is inconsequential next to that.
 
Originally posted by caneintally:
we havent gone away from it the games have just been to close . tomorrow i expect to see platoon all the way thru as Mizzou sucks . WE will platoon until we have another close game which i think will be at USC next.
a&m sucked too, Ole Miss as well
 
Originally posted by ThroughBlue:

Originally posted by caneintally:
we havent gone away from it the games have just been to close . tomorrow i expect to see platoon all the way thru as Mizzou sucks . WE will platoon until we have another close game which i think will be at USC next.
a&m sucked too, Ole Miss as well
A&M definitely does without their best player.

Ole Miss isn't a bad team IMO. Probably right there squarely in the middle of the SEC. Anytime you have two guards who play as well as theirs are playing you'll have a chance to win.
 
We were also getting far better individual play out of some of these guys. Andrew played better in the first 10 games of the season. Towns played better. Dakari played much better. WCS was at least a threat on offense.

A lot of that has gone away. It doesn't matter if you sub five-for-five or play the same group for 40 minutes if you aren't getting high-level play from individual guys.

The poor play is starting very early in games before the platoons have even had time to set in, so I don't believe the sub patterns are the reason for the poor play. I think Cal wants to play a rotation of 9, but to do it certain players have to simply perform better. The platoon discussion is inconsequential next to that.
I would argue that the increased efficiency was a symptom of "the platoons." Again, players are fresh for most of the game with the strategy and are playing a more worn-out opponent in the second half. It makes sense that players like Andrew, WCS, and Aaron are becoming less efficient as they play more minutes.

The team also got off to poor starts while they were using platoons, but would usually dominate in the second half. This hasn't happened in the past two games - which are also the two games that Cal has virtually scrapped the Platoon completely. I dont think five minutes are enough to determine whether or not it's working - since most of the benefits come after 2-3 rotations.
 
I know everyone is a coach, so here goes my spill:

--Go back to the platoon system with WCS, Lyles, Towns, Harrisons on one platoon
----------Ulis, Lee, Booker, Johnson, and Hawkins on the other

--Use the first platoon to try and build a few point lead
--Come in with second platoon with aggressive defense in mind, especially Hawkins, to wear down opponent
--Come back with first platoon after 10 minute mark and substitute when needed at that point

--Same in second half

--Guess I'm more of a first half of each half platooner, then adjust lineup to who is hot or who is playing great defense

--The whole point is to wear down the other team and I think it's possible, but we've got to figure out a way to speed the game up a little instead of letting these teams run the clock down every time and then sagging in a zone on us. Get ahead by 12-15 points and they can't really afford to, especially in the second half.
 
Originally posted by blue_kentucky_boy:


Originally posted by UKWildcats#8:


Originally posted by Hoskins91:
How would the platoon help? The problem is we have no offense. The defense continues to be fine. Teams are game planning to take away our advantages and we aren't adjusting well.
Because DJ and Lee are offensive juggernauts and will make our team start scoring at will platoon style baby!

Less minutes for Towns and WCS is the way to go for this bunch clearly.

I agree with you, sarcasm above lol

While taking minutes away from better players seems like a problem, many would argue that the benefit you're getting from a fresh WCS/Towns/Johnson/Lee for 40 mins is greater than WCS and Towns playing 30+ minutes and suffering fatigue.

The evidence to base this on is that the team was steamrolling opponents both in the Bahamas and the early part of the schedule using the 5-in, 5-out strategy. We've been getting away from it more and more each game since Poy went out and our margin of victory has been steadily decreasing - the last two games obviously being the worst. I just don't get why you would want to go away from something that helped get the team off to a historically good start unless you think they will get even better. Personally, I don't think the top 8 on this team are better than the top 8 on the 2010 and 2012 squads. We were getting better results than those teams using the platoon strategy.. Without it, our ceiling is a little less than theirs in my honest opinion.

I look for us to win by 12-15 tonight if Cal continues to use the 8.5 man rotation. Still a double-digit win, but nowhere near the 28-point spread Vegas originally determined using our results from the early part of the season.


The problem is that if we had played the inferior player more in the last few games we would be playing from behind when the main guys come back in.

Our defense against a&m was great, I don't get why people are complaining about it. I'd also credit the Ole Miss game more to them just playing out of their minds rather than us not doing well on D. We've always come out slowly against teams that we should roll easily, the problem is that these teams are good enough to force you to have to give consistent effort, instead of just turning it on in the last 10 minutes.

We've not been very impressive on offense all year, and teams are starting to take away the few things we are good at, mainly our size advantage. They are swarming anyone who gets the ball in the paint, and our bigs are not doing a good job of reacting. Other teams are also gang rebounding, which nullifies our advantage on the boards. They are forcing our guards to score, and unless we are hitting threes, they struggle to do so. This is exactly how UConn beat us in the title game last year. Our field goal percentage inside the 3-point line has been garbage the last few games. We've luckily been hitting threes and free throws. With our defense, that has been enough to get by.

The improvements need to come on offense, and I don't see how playing everybody 20 minutes a game is going to change our poor performance on that end. Several of our guys just are not good offensive players, and that is not going to change by the end of the season. It is wrong to assume just because something happens after an action, that it must have been a direct result of that action.
 
I agree with everyone that thinks the platoon should be brought back. I think having a rest helped the team and the other teams suffered because of it.
 
Originally posted by Graves51:
Yes we should but won't ever happen. Cal wants to play 8.5 and that's it. Platooning kept him from deciding so much on subbing situations and kept the players fresh and ready to play and practice!
wow, when did Cal say this? When did Cal say he was going to keep platooning? just a few days ago on the Dan Patrick show...
 
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