Should Cason Wallace start at PG over Sahvir Wheeler?
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The problem is this, Wallace needs to be the PG and Wheeler cannot play off the ball.
So it kind of does boil down to Wallace vs. Wheeler, IMHO.
Wallace needs the ball in his hands. He needs to run the show for us to reach our potential.
I don't really put much stock in this. Ulis was not the problem at all on that 2016 team. He didn't have enough help around him. Harrow just wasn't that good (and didn't have help). Wheeler certainly wasn't perfect in that loss but no one was hitting shots consistently.
The real question is this: Is a guard combo of Wallace/CJ (or Reeves) better than a starting combo of Wheeler/Wallace? Wheeler is not a 2 guard so if he's benched and reduced to 8 mpg, either CJ or Livingston have to soak up those minutes. Is Livingston ready...is CJ good enough at this level. Kind of a close call IMO.
I absolutely love Livingston's potential and I want him to get more minutes and be ready for an impact come March. But, I think we need him at the 4. Don't think we can really have him at the 3 and Toppin at the 4 together in the lineup. Feel like it's gotta be one or the other.
If CJ was where we all thought he would be, I'd be all for a Wallace/Reeves/Fredrick/Toppin (or Livingston)/Oscar lineup getting the bulk of the minutes. It just hasn't worked out and I'm skeptical it will but I'd love for CJ to improve and prove me wrong.
You are arguing with someone that thought the dragon should play over IQ. Along with all the rest of the cult.
If we are going to keep Wheeler in the starting five, then I make the case that Livingston needs to replace Toppin at the 4. With Wheeler and Tshiebwe as non-shooters, we need three shooters out there with them. Wallace and Reeves give us two, and Livingston gives us a third. If your 1 can’t shoot, your 4 better be able to.
That’s my compromise, though I still say we won’t make it very deep in the tourney with a 5’8 weak shooter as our starting PG.
That’s my compromise, though I still say we won’t make it very deep in the tourney with a 5’8 weak shooter as our starting PG.
No wheeler is the only true point on the roster. Plus if you sit Wheeler, who’s starting for him that’s worth a crap? Fredderick? Lol
If CJ was playing like we all thought he would, or if Toppin was more of an outside threat, we might not be in this predicament but, as it stands now, I feel like we kind of have to have Wheeler in there. And I do agree that Livingston at the 4 is a better option than Toppin just given his better ability to hit the 3.
If stupid, out-of-control shots at the end of the shot clock or 3-point bricks early in the shot clock count, Wheeler's A:TO ratio would be <1
There is no agenda - in fact, I talk about Wheeler's ability to distribute being one of the biggest reasons he should maintain his starting role on today's episode!
No agenda here - just trying to figure out what fans think. First thing I talk about on the podcast episode that I discuss this is Wheeler's ability to distribute the basketball and maintain the pace of the game. It's too valuable to give up. It's definitely too valuable to take out of a starting role. Seniority and talent outside of scoring is what should keep him in the startling lineup.
Just was scrolling through some numbers and figured I'd share them because I genuinely don't have a great grip on what the fanbase thinks of him and I thought it would spark good conversation. The only in person conversations I've had about him have been with fans saying they hate him. I defended him all last season.
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Wallace doesn’t necessarily handle the pressure that gets thrown at him. I’m backing off a little. They need to play a lot together. I think to be our best, Wallace needs to play point. So, he needs to fix that. Then, yes.
Here’s the thing. You’re right. Against pressure wheeler is better. The comment on penetration though I’m not buying. Wheeler gets into the lane and misses as many layups as he makes. Back to the pressure comment though, Wallace is only playing like 5-10 min of pg and that has gone down. He needs to be running it because he’s a stud in all other areas and is a FRESHMAN who will be dealing fine with the press by mid season. He has the potential to get better. He can get to the rim if that’s what’s needed but your warping the stats of a guy who is playing a low share of the same spot. The only time Wallace and wheeler didn’t play together Wallace nearly had a triple double. The guy is like Lynn Bowden was to the fb team in 2019 when he played qb. This is what you guys don’t realize. Wheeler is wildly inconsistent and here’s this guy who’s not only better but oozes massive potential. A guy for us to succeeed needs the ball in his hands 50% of the time.
The UK basketball season will once again end early as long as Wheeler has the car keys. Sorry, but it is what it is. I’d say ceiling is sweet 16 with Wheeler as the starting PG playing 35 minutes per game. Maybe only one win.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Wheeler playing 30 mpg. I just don't want him being the decision maker when the court is shrunk and there is less than 5 minutes to go.
It isn't even his fault, it is Cal.
It isn't even his fault, it is Cal.
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If he is not the one with the ball in his hands distributing, I see no reason for him on the floor, we have 7-8 guys I’d rather have shooting a jumper, and at least 10 I’d rather see posting up.
Wheeler is not the type of PG that is successful in Cal's system. He has too many WARTS.
He's extremely small
He can't make shots consistently
He plays out of control
He doesn't have a DAWG attitude because he doesn't have the skill level to will his team to a victory
Wallace is unproven, but so were ALL of the big time performers in the Cal era. He just needs MORE PT with the ball IN HIS HANDS.
He's extremely small
He can't make shots consistently
He plays out of control
He doesn't have a DAWG attitude because he doesn't have the skill level to will his team to a victory
Wallace is unproven, but so were ALL of the big time performers in the Cal era. He just needs MORE PT with the ball IN HIS HANDS.
I agree, my point is I think he has value...just don't want him in at end of game.
I think I could live with him in at the end of the game just as long as the ball isn't in his hands at the end of the shot clock each possession. Attack and do what he does in transition and early in the shot clock. If nothing is there, get it over to Wallace to take over at the end of each possession.
It's a logical fallacy to appeal to majority opinion gromcat. I know the game pretty well. You've agreed with me very often until my opinion goes against your bias. I'm not slamming Wallace. I think he's an elite guard who is probably the best player on the team in regard to pro potential. He's just not as good a facilitator as Wheeler. The stats bear that out. The eye test bears it out. Agreeing with a bunch of biased and angry people only makes you part of an angry mob, not right. Conscensus doesn't mean truth. You're all talk Gromcat, no substance. It's hilarious, you're trying to bully me. I have to laugh. This isn't a junior high cafeteria. Continuing to insist something is true despite facts to the contrary only makes you obtuse and stubborn.
So, let me say it again. Wheeler is the best point guard on the team right now. Maybe by the end of the season Wallace will overtake Wheeler, but I tell you this- he's got to handle ball pressure better and he's got to be able to get by his man and get into the lane. He can't do either right now. He is superior in many ways, as I mentioned above (and creating steals is another elite skill of his) but as a pure point guard he's behind Wheeler. Sahvir is the quickest guy on the team by a long shot. He can almost always get by his man. He can get into the paint almost at will and he can create for himself and others. In fact, without help from others, I don't think there is a guard who can stay in front of him. Observe Gromcat, just watch the game. Do you still watch the games? I only ask because it seems clear you don't know the players.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying Wheeler is a better overall player than Wallace. I'm simply saying that he's not as good a point guard. And there is no shame in that, by the way. I know you've decided Wheeler is your enemy and you can't stand the kid, but he's an elite distributor and facilitator. This is not my opinion, it's a fact. Even after a 1 assist outing against Yale, Wheeler is still #22 in the nation in assist rate. Wallace is #309. Wheeler has 52 assists and 15 turnovers on the season. That's a 3.46 a/to ratio, which is elite. Wallace has 39 assists and 18 turnovers. That's a 2.16 a/to ratio, which is also good but not elite. I'm sure you'll call me some more names, you and the rest of the mob. The facts are on my side on this one. The mob is on yours. Too bad for you I'm not a coward.
I agree with you and it's clear Calipari does too. Despite the accusations of my being a homer for Wheeler for whatever reason, I actually love Wallace too. I want him starting also and he is a solid pg backup to Wheeler. His other skills, 3pt shooting, athleticism, creating steals, finishing in traffic in the lane, and other attributes, make him an elite guard. He's just not as good a facilitator. Wheeler's ability to create pace, as you say, is a big part of that as well. We all say, this team needs to play fast to be at its best. Wheeler is the one who makes the team go, in both the full court and the half court. Now, the absolute best thing for this team would be for Wallace to truly challenge Wheeler as a playmaker and force Calipari to play him more at point. He's not there yet. Right now he's better off the ball as a primary scorer than as a facilitator.
Hey, at least you are trying to be reasonable. I appreciate it. Wheeler isn't the awful player some make him out to be. He is frustrating at times, no doubt. He gets in too deep with nowhere to go sometimes. But here is the thing with Wheeler- his fast play also turns into wide open shots for someone often. So, what do you do with a player like that? Do you handcuff him and tell him to stop driving and stop trying to make plays or do you let him go and ask him to be smarter about it? Well, he has 52 assists and only 15 turnovers on the season. So, despite his erratic play at times, he's making more plays than he's turning it over, by a long shot. So, if I'm his coach, I tell him to keep driving and keep looking for the easiest and best play. Benching him would be a huge mistake. So, game by game, depending on his play, you play him more or less. He's got to start making free throws, though, or he's out at crunch time.
Yet you don't mention anything but shooting stats in your post. That's a massive problem on this board, cherry picked stats. Not to mention that rags and riches are thought to be founded in nothing more flimsy than 3 pt shooting percentages. This narrow view figures heavily into agenda based posting by many. Bottom line is that Wheeler is a much better rounded point guard at this point in time. Wallace has great potential and is developing fast but he is also lucky to have Wheeler to learn from as well. Coaches are playing these two about right. Of course they are much better qualified and look at far more than a single stat.
I was trying to understand your position so that we could have a discussion. I never suggested we ignore those things and if you think I did I would ask you provide the quote where I completely disregarded those stats like you suggested I did.
If you want to try again without devolving to this debate etiquette of a 5 year old then I welcome it. But if these are the sorts of responses I can expect from you then please, just agree to disagree and don’t reply. Thank you, be well.
But if he is not creating, he serves no purpose on the floor, because it is literally 4 on 5 at that point. If he has the ball, at least him driving is a threat. If he is spotted up for a 3, = no threat.
So the 15-20mpg I want him on the floor, he is the PG, incuding the 10min he is on the floor w/ Wallace. The other 20-25min Wallace is.
Wallace should start, and Sahvir should have about 12-15 min per game, maybe more depending on how Fredrick is shooting.
I get frustrated with him at times but you are talking about a guy who has led the SEC in assists back to back years. Doesn't typically sound like a guy who should clearly be restricted to a limited role.
He’s terrible in many aspects of the game. He’s not clutch at all. He can’t shoot. He can’t hit free throws. He can’t rebound at all, Wallace is 10 times the defender.
All he can do is pass. That’s it. And his turnovers in key possessions? Come on, if he couldn’t pass he wouldn’t even be D1.
He’s a role player and that’s why he was at Georgia.
Yes
let me preface my answer in a way that everyone can understand and appreciate. If the coach’s goal is to win a title? It would already have happened. If the coach’s goal is to get more draft picks, because let’s face it, that’s why we are all here, then No let’s let Wheeler play 35+ minutes a game, lose 12-15 games and end our season the second week of March.
So if you can figure out what the coach’s goal is then you will have your answer. It doesn’t matter what the other millions of people think
There's no way this team is better in March with Wheeler at PG.
If Cal started Wallace now at PG, and played him 25-28 minutes there, every game, we'd be a legit contender.
If Cal started Wallace now at PG, and played him 25-28 minutes there, every game, we'd be a legit contender.
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