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Round 2 jrposs vs. 420Grover

Who would win head to head


  • Total voters
    34
  • Poll closed .

DraftCat

Senior
Nov 5, 2011
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Welcome to the 2021 NBA All-Time NBA Draft. The objective of the draft was to draft a team that will beat your opponent in a best of 7 games.

Round 2 will last for two days. Voters please vote for the team you believe would win. You will be able to change your vote if the discussion sways you the other way.


@jrpross - Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Dirk Nowitzki, Rick Barry, HC Phil Jackson, Dwight Howard, Mitch Richmond, Chris Bosh, Derrick Rose, Joe Johnson, Robert Parish

vs.

@420grover- Shaquille O'Neal, Julius Erving, Dwyane Wade, Kevin McHale, Luka Dončić , Glen Rice, Peja Stojakovic , Tim Hardaway, Arvydas Sabonis, Jamal Mashburn, HC Larry Bird
 
Well first of all I’d like to thank all of you in advance for voting for my juggernaut greatest team of all time. But before you do, let me tell you a little bit about why you will undoubtedly do so...



Starting lineup...

PG- Magic Johnson
SG- Jerry West
SF- Rick Barry
PF- Dirk Nowitzki
C- Dwight Howard

Bench...

Derrick Rose
Mitch Richmond
Joe Johnson
Chris Bosh
Robert Parish
I’m not going to go into minute detail on every player (unless that’s what you guys want...) But I think you guys know who guys like Magic Johnson & Dirk Nowitzki are. Instead, I’m going to tell you about why I picked this team & how it fits together so well...



Once I snagged the best point guard of all time (a shocker at #5), my strategy was to surround him with guys that could score on anybody & shoot from anywhere, then hopefully take Phil Jackson a round before I finished my starters, and then grab the biggest, strongest bruiser I could to grab rebounds. I obviously wanted good defenders when I could but I would prioritize offensive skill. Kind of the anti-Cal approach 😁

That’s exactly what i was able to do & I’m thrilled with how it turned out. West, Barry, & Dirk were all scoring machines, West averaging 27 a game for his career before the 3-point era. Barry is the player to have led the NCAA, ABA, and NBA in scoring. And Dirk’s fadeaway is probably second only to Kareem’s sky hook as an unstoppable shot. Dwight is the perfect guy to man the paint, as he was a tank who averaged 12+ rebounds 11 times and led the league in blocks twice.



But Phil Jackson was the real key to making this team special. The guy is an 11x champion in 20 seasons. That’s unreal. 30 teams in the league and he won the championship OVER 50% OF THE TIME. And this team is tailored to him. His triangle offense was all about spacing and finding the best shots. With Magic finding my 3 guys at the 2-4 spots, there wouldn’t be a team out there that could stop em.
“But hey man, hey, hey, hey! All of Phil’s championships were with the best players ever! That’s why he won so many!”
And that’s exactly what he has here. (West was basically the Kobe of 40-50 years ago) Phil’s got a team of disciplined, high IQ guys that will run the system to perfection.
To go with my starters, my bench has some great complimentary pieces. If i want to go fast & athletic, I can put in Rose (MVP winner), Richmond (highly underrated 5x all nba), and Bosh, move Magic to the 4 and put Bosh at 5. If i want to go old-school i can put Parish in for some of his patented jumpers with the 20 foot arch, and yet he can still gracefully run the floor like a gazelle. Oh and did you know that my late round selection, Joe Johnson is 12th all-time in 3-pointers made?

Some other points of note....

Despite the fact that I prioritize offense, I ended up with a very strong defensive group. Magic & Barry both led the league in steals, West was 5x all defense and Dwight was a 3x DPOY.
I have incredible passing. Magic is the GOAT at pg, but West led the league in assists once, Barry averaged 5 per game in his career, and Rose averaged 7-8 per game during his MVP era prime. Again this fits perfectly with Phil’s offense.


And finally, these guys are winners. Rose and Johnson are the only ones on my team without a title. 4/5 starters have won a finals MVP, with Magic taking home 3. They’re being led by the biggest winner of them all. The coach with the highest winning percentage and the most championships of all time.
Alright. My speech is now over. Go ahead. Do the inevitable. Shower me with your votes.
 
@420grover
4fd16c7fecad043b4d000001
 
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Luka
Wade
Dr. J
McHale
Shaq

Instant offense off the bench with Peja and Rice, calming effect of a savvy veteran with Sabonis and Hardaway, all-around do-everything Mashburn

Really, I think I managed to luck into building the perfect team. I can mix and match players with several of them being able to play multiple positions.

Yeah, Phil won a lot, but every team was absolute loaded. But we all witnessed him not win it all in 04 with a starting lineup that looked like a team from this draft. My coach never finished lower than the conference finals in his entire coaching career. ;)

But the main thing is, Shaq would NEVER allow himself to be beat by Dwight Howard.
 
This is tough. A couple very good teams. If I am being honest, I’m leaning Grover because I feel the pick of Phil Jackson was made a bit too early, with a starting lineup not set yet. That said, I still really like his team, and Robert Parish as the last pick was possibly the best value pick of the draft, slightly canceling out the early Phil pick. I’m over thinking this one, but it’s too tough to pick right now lol
 
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This is tough. A couple very good teams. If I am being honest, I’m leaning Grover because I feel the pick of Phil Jackson was made a bit too early, with a starting lineup not set yet. That said, I still really like his team, and Robert Parish as the last pick was possibly the best value pick of the draft, slightly canceling out the early Phil pick. I’m over thinking this one, but it’s too tough to pick right now lol
I went with him early because, yeah again, he always has great teams when he won, but that’s kinda the point. He was able to get the absolute best out of the best players. Looking back at the draft, there actually weren’t any centers drafted between when I drafted Phil & Dwight, so has I taken a center in round 5, I would have gotten Dwight anyway 😁

I’m not going to go into a big spiel about how terrible Grover’s team is, because it’s obviously not. There’s not a bad team in this draft. But my only problem is that there’s ZERO outside shooting in his starting lineup outside of Luka and bringing in bench players means taking his best players out. Stojakovic & Rice were actually known as below average defenders so if they go in against my wings, they get thoroughly abused. I just don’t think he has the scoring to keep up with my lineup.

Oh and fun fact: Shaq & Dwight went head to head 12 times between 2004-2011.

Shaq: 15.7 ppg, 6.4 rpg
Dwight: 16.5 ppg, 10.9 rpg

Now, mind you, that was on the back 9 of Shaq’s career but still, Dwight in his prime could contain Shaq in his just about as well as anyone could.
 
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I think 3 point shooting is overvalued in these drafts because that's how the game is played now. Most of the dudes in this league never played that way and aren't going to play that way.

Prime Shaq vs prime Dwight? Lol
 
One more thing, if me and @JHannibalSmith both win this round, the next game will be Larry Bird the player vs Larry Bird the coach. That's gotta be worth a vote or two.
Oh Shaq is considerably better. I’m well aware of that. 😁 Just saying Dwight is a 3x DPOY. He’s not getting abused.
a old and washed up Shaq, playing on the cavs, abused prime dwight.
 
I don't think Dirk get enough respect. He is absolutely a top 20 player of all time. He's arguably better than anyone else on 420's team beyond Shaq. He's better than Kevin Garnett. He completely revolutionized the PF position, and broke through the stigma that the European kids weren't tough enough, and was incredibly clutch. He was so money in game 7s. Went into San Antonio against prime Tim Duncan in a game 7 playoff matchup and dropped 37 and 15 in a win. Was good enough to carry his team to a championship against that super Heat team. And let's be real, the Mavs were absolutely cheated against the Heat in the Finals in '06. Not as bad as the 2000 Lakers/Blazers series, but the NBA definitely wanted to extend that Finals and screwed the Mavs hard. The Heat shot 50 damn free throws in game 5 on so many phantom foul calls. Tim Donaghy wasn't some rogue ref, there were systemic issues.

And maybe it's just me, but I think it's kind of lame having Luka here. The dude has been in the league a little over 2 years. He very well may get there at some point, but he doesn't belong in an all-time competition like this. Just my 2 cents.
 
I’m down 7 at the moment. Not looking too hot 😬

I personally feel like I have the better team. Much better shooting & ball movement. Better coaching by a landslide. Better defense in my opinion too. Rebounding is about even. He definitely has better post offense and athleticism. West & Barry aren’t as sexy at the 2 & 3 as Wade & Dr. J though 😁

But of course this is all my opinion of course. As I said in another thread, if all of us didn’t think the players we got were the best possible, we wouldn’t have picked them.
 
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Finally voted. After much consideration, the teams were close enough that I felt the picks of Sabonis and Mashburn didn’t really make a ton of sense, therefore giving jrpross a slight edge. Both players combined for one all star appearance and just don’t add a lot as opposed to what other picks strategically could have, IMO. It feels nitpicky, but I just couldn’t draw a line anywhere else. It’s going 7 games, though.
 
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