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Reds

#11 Brandon Williamson, LH pitcher. Drafted in the 2nd round of the 2019 draft by the Seattle Mariners. The Reds acquired Williamson in the trade that sent Winker and Suarez to the Mariners.

After being drafted in 2019 Brandon would play 10 games for the Everett AquaSox, a short season A league team. 9 starts. 35 IP, 2.35 ERA, 0.91 WHIP, 5 BB, 25 SO

Brandon wouldn’t see the field again until the 2021 season due to lost Covid year. He would pitch in 6 games, 32 IP, in A+, all starts. 3.19 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 10 BB, 59 SO
Williamson would play in 13 games, 67.1 IP, all starts, after being promoted to AA. 348 ERA, 2.26 WHIP, 23 BB, 94 SO

Brandon was traded to the Reds prior to the 2022 season and was assigned to the AA, Chattanooga Lookouts. He would make 24 starts for the Lookouts, 67.1 IP. 4.14 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, 40 BB, 74 SO
Brandon would move to Louisville midseason and start 13 more games for the AAA, Bats. 4.07 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, 37 BB, 49 SO

I’m 2021, while in the Mariners system Brandon’s BB% was 3.37% In 2022 with the Reds, it ballooned to 6.31%. It was also reported that he had lost some speed on his fastball although it reportedly improved towards the end of the season. It will be interesting to see which pitcher he is when the season starts.
 
I’ve posted this before but I don’t think some realize what the Reds are trying to do. I see a lot of comments talking about Reds prospects saying “they are just going to trade them anyway” yes they are. That’s the plan. We are not going to spend enough money to be competitive. It’s either this way or just suck from now on. I know which I want. And please, don’t say “sell the team Bob” He’s not going to. It’s either the Rays way or suck from now on. Which do you want?

There are 2 ways a team can be consistent contenders. The first is to spend a lot of money, I don’t see the Reds ownership ever doing that. The second is to do like the Rays and trade players as they start to get expensive for prospects and when those prospects start to get expensive trade then, keeping a constant supply of good inexpensive players in the pipeline. The Rays payroll never gets over 75 million but they constantly have one of the best teams in baseball. I think this is what the Reds are trying to do

here is what the 2024 roster will look like if no one is added. There is a lot of good young talent Payroll would only be about 47 million so there would also be a lot of money to spend on free agents to fill holes. I know that all these prospects won’t work out, but some will. I know the roster below is not a winning team. I’m not trying to say it is. I’m just showing what players could be here. These players and a lot of money will make it a good roster. I know it’s a lot easier for me than most people to say “rebuild” even tho it would be a short one, because I love watching minor league baseball

Only thing I would do different than the Rays is pick a couple players to extend to be the face of your franchise. I’m not talking 10 year deals. I’m talking pick a player like India or Stephenson and buy out a couple years early. Give the player some security for their family, they will still be a free agent in time to secure a big contract. and gives the Reds a good player for a couple extra years. Reds should be able to sustain a payroll of 125 million or maybe a little more.

2024 roster and payroll
This is what the roster could look like in 2024.

C- Tyler Stephenson. -1st year arbitration , est. 3 million
C- Matheu Nelson or Daniel Vellojin 740K
1B- Christian Encarnacion Strand 740K
2B Jonathan India- 1st year Arbitration, est. 3.5 million
SS - Elly De La Cruz 740K
3B- Noelvi Marte- 740K
OF - Matt Mclain 740,000
OF- Spencer Steer 740K
OF- Jake Fraley- 1st year arbitration. Est 1 million
BN- Alejo Lopez - 1st year arbitration, est 1.25 million
BN- TJ Friedl - 1st year arbitration. Est. 1.25 million
BN- Nick Senzel- 3rd year arbitration, est. 3.5 million
BN-Jose Barrero est. 2.25M 1st year Arbitration

SP- Hunter Greene- 740,000
SP- Nick Lodolo- 740,000
SP- Graham Ashcraft- 740,000
SP- Andrew Abbott - 740,000
SP- Brandon Williamson 740,000

RP- Vlad Gutierrez 1st year Arb, est 1 million
RP- Ryan Hendrix- 1st arbitration. Set. 1 million
RP- Reiver SanMartin- 740,000
RP- TeJay Antone- 2nd year arbitration, est. 2.5 million
RP- Lucas Simms- 3rd year arbitration, est. 4 million
RP- Tony Santillan 1st year arbitration, est. 2 million
RP- Art Warren- 740,000
RP- Alexis Diaz- 740,000

There are a lot of other players that could be considered:

Justin Dunn- 2nd year arbitration, est 3 million

Pre arbitration players-

Ivan Johnson, Francisco Urbaez, Brian Rey, Rece Hinds, Jose Torres, Christian Roa, Allen Cerda, Connor Phillips,
Michael Siani,
Lyon Richardson, Nick Quintana, Levi Stoudt,
Joe Boyle, TJ Hopkins, Stuart Fairchild. Nick Northcut and Steve Hajjar.
 
I posted this a while ago so some things have changed. I just noticed Art Warren is still on here. There may be others I should have added also.
 
kybloo92 said:
He had an .ops above .800 3 straight years from 2018-21 with .914 in 2021, .812 in his '22 callup with the Giants but finding him an everyday spot in the lineup over more deserving prospects who actually may have a future in this organization is the question. Likely a left hand bat off the bench or fill in at 1B if Joey has to miss time to start the year. As an outfielder, not sure that he is all that much than Siani or Hopkins who need time now before the outfielders in the lower levels progress in the system. There's nothing to lose in a rebuild to give any of them a shot in CF. Huge difference in getting it done at the AAA vs the MLB level. Would like to know why Vosler was signed and abruptly released by the Mariners though. Giants fans who follow closely seem to like his power potential but at 29 it's time to get it going.
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Keeping my expectations realistic for a near 30-year old that has bounced around from a couple of organizations. Would be great if he surprised everyone but not going to hold my breath. He's got it all to do first before anointing him as a savior.
 
The message of wait until (insert name) no longer resonates with most of us Reds fans. We know the farm system on paper is stocked. Something Krall has done well with replenishing since taking over. Enough of them should pan out if the Reds stick with the plan but never do long enough to see it through. It's a 3-4 year window tops to contend in before an inevitable fire sale. None of us know how quickly any of them will adapt to the MLB level though which makes contending in a short window hard to do with young players. For every Jonathan India, Greene, Lodolo & Stephenson there are Nick Senzel's, Blandino, Barrero, etc that struggle. The Reds can sign a couple of players to the long term extensions that Votto & Bailey got this past decade but they need to be realistic with who they can afford without mortgaging the future of the team around 1 or 2 players.

Many of us have been saying the Reds need to follow the Rays blueprint model throughout this thread. We get it. Not new to us but Reds fans are frustrated and reserve the right to be with decades of mediocrity. It is the only option small market teams have at surviving is to trade their players for top prospects with a gamble hoping they pan out and don't get injured. Tampa Bay does it better than anyone else. Even Cleveland made the postseason with a lesser pay role than the Reds. With the Castellini's in charge of this franchise for 17 years, I have no hope of this franchise ever carrying out a consistent model that would have anywhere near to the sustained success Tampa Bay has had since 2008.

It's taken the Reds this long so I'll have to see it to believe with this franchise to be the Rays of the National League. At the end of the day, 5 out of 17 winning seasons with this franchise says it all. Shouldn't take an ownership group nearly 2 decades to figure out how string more than 2 winning seasons consecutively on the field and have the appropriate prospects ready in AAA traded MLB players are traded as Tampa Bay does. 23 seasons of losing since 2000 should have seen a couple of phenoms on the level of Trout, Acuna, Judge, Betts, Harper, DeGrom, Max Fried etc beyond just Joey Votto. If the Reds have that in the system, it's ELDC but may not even see him until 2024, September this year if we're lucky. Cincinnati continues to sign players we never heard of that bury guys like Hopkins and Siani in AAA. If you are going to commit to rebuilding, then go all in. Guys like Chad Pinder have no future here and the Reds don't need to be that desperate with players like Siani & Hopking more deserving now. This money wasted on has beens adds up that could be used to sign contract extensions to keep guys that belong here.
 
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kywildcatsfannumber1 said:
Keeping my expectations realistic for a near 30-year old that has bounced around from a couple of organizations. Would be great if he surprised everyone but not going to hold my breath. He's got it all to do first before anointing him as a savior.
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Not saying he is going to save the Reds by any means but it would be nice to see a player with some power come into a hitters paradise like GABP especially as a lefty as opposed to another singles hitter utility role player with Pinder that the 102 loss A's no longer needed but Cincinnati signs anyways.
 
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kybloo92 said:
The message of wait until (insert name) no longer resonates with most of us Reds fans. We know the farm system on paper is stocked. Something Krall has done well with replenishing since taking over. Enough of them should pan out if the Reds stick with the plan but never do long enough to see it through. It's a 3-4 year window tops to contend in before an inevitable fire sale. None of us know how quickly any of them will adapt to the MLB level though which makes contending in a short window hard to do with young players. For every Jonathan India, Greene, Lodolo & Stephenson there are Nick Senzel's, Blandino, Barrero, etc that struggle. The Reds can sign a couple of players to the long term extensions that Votto & Bailey got this past decade but they need to be realistic with who they can afford without mortgaging the future of the team around 1 or 2 players.

Many of us have been saying the Reds need to follow the Rays blueprint model throughout this thread. We get it. Not new to us but Reds fans are frustrated and reserve the right to be with decades of mediocrity. It is the only option small market teams have at surviving is to trade their players for top prospects with a gamble hoping they pan out and don't get injured. Tampa Bay does it better than anyone else. Even Cleveland made the postseason with a lesser pay role than the Reds. With the Castellini's in charge of this franchise for 17 years, I have no hope of this franchise ever carrying out a consistent model that would have anywhere near to the sustained success Tampa Bay has had since 2008.

It's taken the Reds this long so I'll have to see it to believe with this franchise to be the Rays of the National League. At the end of the day, 5 out of 17 winning seasons with this franchise says it all. Shouldn't take an ownership group nearly 2 decades to figure out how string more than 2 winning seasons consecutively on the field and have the appropriate prospects ready in AAA traded MLB players are traded as Tampa Bay does. 23 seasons of losing since 2000 should have seen a couple of phenoms on the level of Trout, Acuna, Judge, Betts, Harper, DeGrom, Max Fried etc beyond just Joey Votto. If the Reds have that in the system, it's ELDC but may not even see him until 2024, September this year if we're lucky. Cincinnati continues to sign players we never heard of that bury guys like Hopkins and Siani in AAA. If you are going to commit to rebuilding, then go all in. Guys like Chad Pinder have no future here and the Reds don't need to be that desperate with players like Siani & Hopking more deserving now. This money wasted on has beens adds up that could be used to sign contract extensions to keep guys that belong here.
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I agree with some of what you said but this is the first year the Reds have went all in on a rebuild. When is the last time we’ve traded anyone with value? Everyone would like the Reds to spend a lot of money but the Reds aren’t going to. That leaves 2 options. Tank for 4 years, try to compete for a couple, then tank again. A cycle I don’t want. Or we do like the Rays, Build thru the farm system. Trade players when they have 1 1/2 to 2 years of control, like we did Castillo and Mahle, to keep the farm stocked. Try to buy out a couple free agent years, while they are young. Sign or trade from what is hopefully a strong farm system to fill any positions we need.
 
Krazzy said:
I agree with some of what you said but this is the first year the Reds have went all in on a rebuild. When is the last time we’ve traded anyone with value? Everyone would like the Reds to spend a lot of money but the Reds aren’t going to. That leaves 2 options. Tank for 4 years, try to compete for a couple, then tank again. A cycle I don’t want. Or we do like the Rays, Build thru the farm system. Trade players when they have 1 1/2 to 2 years of control, like we did Castillo and Mahle, to keep the farm stocked. Try to buy out a couple free agent years, while they are young. Sign or trade from what is hopefully a strong farm system to fill any positions we need.
Click to expand...
They sold off Frazier, Chapman, Leake, Bruce, Volquez, Cueto, Cozart FA, Latos, BP etc from the core of the 2010-13 run outside of Votto and Bailey until it was too late. Didn't have a season above .500 again until 2020-21. Of all of those trades I can't think of anyone in the organization that did anything noteworthy to help the Reds. Yes, the Reds have to trade off the players they can't retain and that's what they always do. Which back to my earlier point building your team this way is always a gamble. Definitely not the first rebuild that the has taken place under the Castellini regime. No one said the Reds were ever going to be big spenders so I don't where that is coming from when you say 'everyone.' Not exactly earth shattering news there. We all watch Reds baseball and know how it works around here. Nothing you're saying isn't what many of us have previously said throughout 2022 and for many years. When multiple top draft picks and prospects in trades don't pan out and when it comes to spending money on extensions/FA prioritizing players like Homer Bailey after 2 no-hitters with his inconsistencies/injuries over Cueto and Moustakas who was never worth that much to begin with is beyond frustrating. It's laughable he made almost as much as Judge last year. Would be hard pressed to find anyone before who thought signing Homer over Cueto long term was going to be a good idea and that's not coming from hindsight perspective when I say that. He proved what I thought would happen.

They have yet to provide a farm system that turns over results consistently enough that makes these rebuilds less painful anywhere close to what Tampa Bay does and the results speak for themselves with 5 winning seasons out of 17. There are many prospects the Reds need especially in the outfield lower in the system who were highly drafted that are struggling and it's concerning. I don't share the same optimism that the Reds fortunes are going to suddenly change and become the Rays of the National League. We hope but it's far from certain. The Reds have everything to prove and asking for our patience year after year with little results is asking a lot. I know Reds fans can't stand the front office/ownership but it's not like they just discovered the draft & trade market on how to best trade their assets to maximize the return on prospects from other organizations after all of this time. If and when they do develop an organization that can replenish the roster anywhere close to the rate TB does, it will be about time after all of the losing this franchise has done.
 
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kybloo92 said:
Not saying he is going to save the Reds by any means but it would be nice to see a player with some power come into a hitters paradise like GABP especially as a lefty as opposed to another singles hitter utility role player with Pinder that the 102 loss A's no longer needed but Cincinnati signs anyways.
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I agree about Pinder though all I'm saying is keep expectations realistic for a player that has bounced around between organizations already approaching 30 playing at the AAA for 4 straight seasons. Would be surprised if he's a late bloomer like JD Martinez, Jose Bautista or Eric Thames before their careers took off. You can say Michael Morse but that dude was 6'5 nearly 250, a lot bigger than Vosler.
kybloo92 said:
They sold off Frazier, Chapman, Leake, Volquez, Cueto, Cozart FA, Latos, BP etc from the core of the 2010-13 run outside of Votto and Bailey until it was too late.
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The returns Cincinnati got for those All-Stars during that stretch are hurting the Reds these days. Still kills me how they did not wait it out on Chapman liked New York letting everything settle with his case, dealt him to the Cubs as a 2 month rental and received Gleyber Torres in return. FOR 2 MONTHS!! Duvall was the best return. DeSclafani for Latos was decent but was much better once he left the Reds in 2021 with the Giants. Of course neither are Reds anymore. Go figure lol Overall should have done much better with that many All-Stars compared to what they did in 2022.
 
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Krazzy said:
I’ve posted this before but I don’t think some realize what the Reds are trying to do. I see a lot of comments talking about Reds prospects saying “they are just going to trade them anyway” yes they are. That’s the plan. We are not going to spend enough money to be competitive. It’s either this way or just suck from now on. I know which I want. And please, don’t say “sell the team Bob” He’s not going to. It’s either the Rays way or suck from now on. Which do you want?

There are 2 ways a team can be consistent contenders. The first is to spend a lot of money, I don’t see the Reds ownership ever doing that. The second is to do like the Rays and trade players as they start to get expensive for prospects and when those prospects start to get expensive trade then, keeping a constant supply of good inexpensive players in the pipeline. The Rays payroll never gets over 75 million but they constantly have one of the best teams in baseball. I think this is what the Reds are trying to do

here is what the 2024 roster will look like if no one is added. There is a lot of good young talent Payroll would only be about 47 million so there would also be a lot of money to spend on free agents to fill holes. I know that all these prospects won’t work out, but some will. I know the roster below is not a winning team. I’m not trying to say it is. I’m just showing what players could be here. These players and a lot of money will make it a good roster. I know it’s a lot easier for me than most people to say “rebuild” even tho it would be a short one, because I love watching minor league baseball

Only thing I would do different than the Rays is pick a couple players to extend to be the face of your franchise. I’m not talking 10 year deals. I’m talking pick a player like India or Stephenson and buy out a couple years early. Give the player some security for their family, they will still be a free agent in time to secure a big contract. and gives the Reds a good player for a couple extra years. Reds should be able to sustain a payroll of 125 million or maybe a little more.

2024 roster and payroll
This is what the roster could look like in 2024.

C- Tyler Stephenson. -1st year arbitration , est. 3 million
C- Matheu Nelson or Daniel Vellojin 740K
1B- Christian Encarnacion Strand 740K
2B Jonathan India- 1st year Arbitration, est. 3.5 million
SS - Elly De La Cruz 740K
3B- Noelvi Marte- 740K
OF - Matt Mclain 740,000
OF- Spencer Steer 740K
OF- Jake Fraley- 1st year arbitration. Est 1 million
BN- Alejo Lopez - 1st year arbitration, est 1.25 million
BN- TJ Friedl - 1st year arbitration. Est. 1.25 million
BN- Nick Senzel- 3rd year arbitration, est. 3.5 million
BN-Jose Barrero est. 2.25M 1st year Arbitration

SP- Hunter Greene- 740,000
SP- Nick Lodolo- 740,000
SP- Graham Ashcraft- 740,000
SP- Andrew Abbott - 740,000
SP- Brandon Williamson 740,000

RP- Vlad Gutierrez 1st year Arb, est 1 million
RP- Ryan Hendrix- 1st arbitration. Set. 1 million
RP- Reiver SanMartin- 740,000
RP- TeJay Antone- 2nd year arbitration, est. 2.5 million
RP- Lucas Simms- 3rd year arbitration, est. 4 million
RP- Tony Santillan 1st year arbitration, est. 2 million
RP- Art Warren- 740,000
RP- Alexis Diaz- 740,000

There are a lot of other players that could be considered:

Justin Dunn- 2nd year arbitration, est 3 million

Pre arbitration players-

Ivan Johnson, Francisco Urbaez, Brian Rey, Rece Hinds, Jose Torres, Christian Roa, Allen Cerda, Connor Phillips,
Michael Siani,
Lyon Richardson, Nick Quintana, Levi Stoudt,
Joe Boyle, TJ Hopkins, Stuart Fairchild. Nick Northcut and Steve Hajjar.
Click to expand...
I like the optimism and it looks plausible with the depth in the pipeline on paper. Variables along the way can throw a wrench like injuries/busts though if the pipeline is deep enough should be able to overcome it. Hopefully they can get to that spot someday where it's a plug in the holes from within approach after the return in a trade or built up from the draft ready to go in AAA.

I do think Cincinnati needs to do all they can to make a star a career Cincinnati Red like Votto as TB has done with Wander Franco so it is not always a revolving door with some veteran experience & stability which will pay off for the Rays in the future. Would rather keep as many of the prospects as the Reds can to sustain the depth rather than sending a bunch on a rental that will leave Cincinnati eventually but that's not realistic for any small market team that can't just take a bunch of big contracts. It will have to happen with so many infielders unless more like Hinds start a transition to the OF. Just like with Kansas City during their WS run, trading prospects for rentals with Cueto, Shields, Zobrist & Volquez. Will require patience in the organization. Imagine having a DH during the time Encarnacion was here and had the Reds been able to stay the course with him.
 
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kywildcatsfannumber1 said:
I like the optimism and it looks plausible with the depth in the pipeline on paper. Variables along the way can throw a wrench like injuries/busts though if the pipeline is deep enough should be able to overcome it. Hopefully they can get to that spot someday where it's a plug in the holes from within approach after the return in a trade or built up from the draft ready to go in AAA.
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A plug and go is not that simple or more teams would be able to do. The Great One out in Oakland Billy Beane just had a 102 losses and Cincinnati is signing his scraps. Think this is all new to teams like them, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Kansas City and Washington all still trying to figure it out like the Rays do things? Baltimore is in the best position with a loaded farm system as well with quite a few of their players in AAA on the verge of MLB. Were above .500 so it will be interesting to see how well they do in 2023. A few bad drafts for the Rays and lower picks with the TB winning more, the new lottery system does not guarantee the bottom feeders anything in the draft will put their model to the test. Long are the days of 100 losses getting you a top 5 pick for sure. Even Tampa Bay missed the postseason 5 out of 6 years from 2012-18 with their way of doing things.
 
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kybloo92 said:
A plug and go is not that simple or more teams would be able to do. The Great One out in Oakland Billy Beane just had a 102 losses and Cincinnati is signing his scraps. Think this is all new to teams like them, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Kansas City and Washington all still trying to figure it out like the Rays do things? Baltimore is in the best position with a loaded farm system as well with quite a few of their players in AAA on the verge of MLB. Were above .500 so it will be interesting to see how well they do in 2023. A few bad drafts for the Rays and lower picks with the TB winning more, the new lottery system does not guarantee the bottom feeders anything in the draft will put their model to the test. Long are the days of 100 losses getting you a top 5 pick for sure. Even Tampa Bay missed the postseason 5 out of 6 years from 2012-18 with their way of doing things.
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Fair point about the lottery draft position these days with the Reds at #7 this year. That's what 100 losses bought them so no incentive to tank. I'm sure the lottery draft position will work in the Reds favor at some point but that's no way to build a team banking on the odds working in your favor at some point.
 
kybloo92 said:
A plug and go is not that simple or more teams would be able to do. The Great One out in Oakland Billy Beane just had a 102 losses and Cincinnati is signing his scraps. Think this is all new to teams like them, Pittsburgh, Arizona, Kansas City and Washington all still trying to figure it out like the Rays do things? Baltimore is in the best position with a loaded farm system as well with quite a few of their players in AAA on the verge of MLB. Were above .500 so it will be interesting to see how well they do in 2023. A few bad drafts for the Rays and lower picks with the TB winning more, the new lottery system does not guarantee the bottom feeders anything in the draft will put their model to the test. Long are the days of 100 losses getting you a top 5 pick for sure. Even Tampa Bay missed the postseason 5 out of 6 years from 2012-18 with their way of doing things.
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You say the Reds are signing scraps. I say they are waiting till they have a nucleus that is ready to win. That’s when you add. Trout wouldn’t make this team a contender.
 
kywildcatsfannumber1 said:
I agree about Pinder though all I'm saying is keep expectations realistic for a player that has bounced around between organizations already approaching 30 playing at the AAA for 4 straight seasons. Would be surprised if he's a late bloomer like JD Martinez, Jose Bautista or Eric Thames before their careers took off. You can say Michael Morse but that dude was 6'5 nearly 250, a lot bigger than Vosler.

The returns Cincinnati got for those All-Stars during that stretch are hurting the Reds these days. Still kills me how they did not wait it out on Chapman liked New York letting everything settle with his case, dealt him to the Cubs as a 2 month rental and received Gleyber Torres in return. FOR 2 MONTHS!! Duvall was the best return. DeSclafani for Latos was decent but was much better once he left the Reds in 2021 with the Giants. Of course neither are Reds anymore. Go figure lol Overall should have done much better with that many All-Stars compared to what they did in 2022.
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He shit up his garage in a fight with his girlfriend. The Reds had a deal worked out with the dodgers but they backed out when the news broke. Should they have waited to trade him. Maybe, but you will never hear me complain when they dump a player for domestic violence.
 
kybloo92 said:
They sold off Frazier, Chapman, Leake, Bruce, Volquez, Cueto, Cozart FA, Latos, BP etc from the core of the 2010-13 run outside of Votto and Bailey until it was too late. Didn't have a season above .500 again until 2020-21. Of all of those trades I can't think of anyone in the organization that did anything noteworthy to help the Reds. Yes, the Reds have to trade off the players they can't retain and that's what they always do. Which back to my earlier point building your team this way is always a gamble. Definitely not the first rebuild that the has taken place under the Castellini regime. No one said the Reds were ever going to be big spenders so I don't where that is coming from when you say 'everyone.' Not exactly earth shattering news there. We all watch Reds baseball and know how it works around here. Nothing you're saying isn't what many of us have previously said throughout 2022 and for many years. When multiple top draft picks and prospects in trades don't pan out and when it comes to spending money on extensions/FA prioritizing players like Homer Bailey after 2 no-hitters with his inconsistencies/injuries over Cueto and Moustakas who was never worth that much to begin with is beyond frustrating. It's laughable he made almost as much as Judge last year. Would be hard pressed to find anyone before who thought signing Homer over Cueto long term was going to be a good idea and that's not coming from hindsight perspective when I say that. He proved what I thought would happen.

They have yet to provide a farm system that turns over results consistently enough that makes these rebuilds less painful anywhere close to what Tampa Bay does and the results speak for themselves with 5 winning seasons out of 17. There are many prospects the Reds need especially in the outfield lower in the system who were highly drafted that are struggling and it's concerning. I don't share the same optimism that the Reds fortunes are going to suddenly change and become the Rays of the National League. We hope but it's far from certain. The Reds have everything to prove and asking for our patience year after year with little results is asking a lot. I know Reds fans can't stand the front office/ownership but it's not like they just discovered the draft & trade market on how to best trade their assets to maximize the return on prospects from other organizations after all of this time. If and when they do develop an organization that can replenish the roster anywhere close to the rate TB does, it will be about time after all of the losing this franchise has done.
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They ate all of Philips salary except for 1 million if I remember right. They refused to trade Frazier when they should have because of the all star game. Cueto had just came off the DL with his shoulder and only had about 2 months of control left. I believe cozart was a free agent, how was he after leaving the Reds? Wasn’t he out of baseball in 2 years? Wasn’t Bruce hitting something like 220-240? He also only had about 2 months of control left. Volquez was traded for Latos. (We did overpay but that was the prospects we gave away) I believe Latos was traded away before the season. I don’t remember him being any good after the trade either but may be wrong and don’t remember what we got in return. I do remember he was supposed to be a clubhouse cancer tho. I also remember that they traded these guys over a couple years instead of going all in on a rebuild because they wanted to stay competitive. Wanted players major league ready instead of legit prospects. That’s why we ended up with players like Schwarber and Peraza instead of legit prospects.
 
Krazzy said:
You say the Reds are signing scraps. I say they are waiting till they have a nucleus that is ready to win. That’s when you add. Trout wouldn’t make this team a contender.
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That's rich because the player I was referring to was Pinder and even you said is no guarantee to make the roster and did not understand the move.
Krazzy said:
They ate all of Philips salary except for 1 million if I remember right. They refused to trade Frazier when they should have because of the all star game. Cueto had just came off the DL with his shoulder and only had about 2 months of control left. I believe cozart was a free agent, how was he after leaving the Reds? Wasn’t he out of baseball in 2 years? Wasn’t Bruce hitting something like 220-240? He also only had about 2 months of control left. Volquez was traded for Latos. (We did overpay but that was the prospects we gave away) I believe Latos was traded away before the season. I don’t remember him being any good after the trade either but may be wrong and don’t remember what we got in return. I do remember he was supposed to be a clubhouse cancer tho. I also remember that they traded these guys over a couple years instead of going all in on a rebuild because they wanted to stay competitive. Wanted players major league ready instead of legit prospects. That’s why we ended up with players like Schwarber and Peraza instead of legit prospects.
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Not even close on Jay Bruce. He was an All-Star in 2016 and was hitting .265 for the Reds ending the season with 33 home runs & 99 RBIs. The Mets couldn't wait to get rid of Dilson Herrera and it was reported the Reds turned down a return including Brandon Nimmo at the time. Yes, you remember right the Reds ate $15 million of $16 remaining on BP for 2 minor leaguers that never materialized and no one expected too. Great move! Who did the Reds get in the compensation pick for Cozart during an All-Star season rather than keeping up with the theme of trading everyone at that time with 2 months of control left? For the record, Jose Peraza was indeed considered by the experts at MLB a 'legit' prospect. Ranked in the top 40 in all of MLB in 2015 and the one I had high hopes for. Failed to develop in Cincinnati just like everyone else from those trades.

I remember that period different than you. It seemed pretty evident after 2013 firing Dusty Baker, letting Bronson Arroyo go after a 14-win season they weren't all in on winning the next few seasons. If not, it just shows the incompetency of this ownership without a clear direction to make some of the moves they've made over the years. No one can predict injuries to Arroyo, Cozart etc so that's not a valid excuse for letting a player walk before an injury on another team happens. If injuries can be predicted then you'd have to assign blame for the contracts Bailey & Mesoraco received in that time which wouldn't be fair since the Reds didn't see it coming.
 
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Is anyone following the likely bankruptcy of Bally Sports? What happens to the Reds if they lose all of the payments due on their media rights deal? I think this is a real problem going forward for small market teams, and an unintended consequence of "cord cutting".
 
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kybloo92 said:
That's rich because the player I was referring to was Pinder and even you said is no guarantee to make the roster and did not understand the move.

Not even close on Jay Bruce. He was an All-Star in 2016 and was hitting .265 for the Reds ending the season with 33 home runs & 99 RBIs. The Mets couldn't wait to get rid of Dilson Herrera and it was reported the Reds turned down a return including Brandon Nimmo at the time. Yes, you remember right the Reds ate $15 million of $16 remaining on BP for 2 minor leaguers that never materialized and no one expected too. Great move! Who did the Reds get in the compensation pick for Cozart during an All-Star season rather than keeping up with the theme of trading everyone at that time with 2 months of control left? For the record, Jose Peraza was indeed considered by the experts at MLB a 'legit' prospect. Ranked in the top 40 in all of MLB in 2015 and the one I had high hopes for. Failed to develop in Cincinnati just like everyone else from those trades.

I remember that period different than you. It seemed pretty evident after 2013 firing Dusty Baker, letting Bronson Arroyo go after a 14-win season they weren't all in on winning the next few seasons. If not, it just shows the incompetency of this ownership without a clear direction to make some of the moves they've made over the years. No one can predict injuries to Arroyo, Cozart etc so that's not a valid excuse for letting a player walk before an injury on another team happens. If injuries can be predicted then you'd have to assign blame for the contracts Bailey & Mesoraco received in that time which wouldn't be fair since the Reds didn't see it coming.
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Pinder is a MINOR LEAGUE signing. I wasn’t even taking it into acount.

Jay Bruce’s last full season with the Reds, he hit .226 with a 729 OPS. The year before that he hit .217 with a .664 OPS. He was having a good year when he was traded but how much value do you think he had after those 2 awful years? And for record. He did regress. .219 BA with a .685 OPS. And yes, that was to be expected. Nimmo was injured at the time. It was a mistake not taking him but hindsight is 20/20.
 
Krazzy said:
Pinder is a MINOR LEAGUE signing. I wasn’t even taking it into acount.

Jay Bruce’s last full season with the Reds, he hit .226 with a 729 OPS. The year before that he hit .217 with a .664 OPS. He was having a good year when he was traded but how much value do you think he had after those 2 awful years? And for record. He did regress. .219 BA with a .685 OPS. And yes, that was to be expected. Nimmo was injured at the time. It was a mistake not taking him but hindsight is 20/20.
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Ridiculous. No wonder the Reds are where they are when the organization/FO shares the same logic as you do.
 
Dore95 said:
Is anyone following the likely bankruptcy of Bally Sports? What happens to the Reds if they lose all of the payments due on their media rights deal? I think this is a real problem going forward for small market teams, and an unintended consequence of "cord cutting".
Click to expand...
An article another member posted a week ago here stated that the league might make games in your regional market available on their MLB TV subscription without blackout restrictions until a long term solution is figured out. I'm all for the games being shopped around to different networks to accommodate more people than Directv customers. It's the only way you can see the Reds in-market and frankly not worth paying over $100 for the service.
 
I’m done talking Reds on this site. Tired of the rude people. Anyone interested in following the Reds minor league systems is welcome to check out my Facebook group. We have almost 4100 members. A lot of great content. If you just want to complain, don’t bother. You wont last long before getting booted.

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Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
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Krazzy said:
I’m done talking Reds on this site. Tired of the rude people. Anyone interested in following the Reds minor league systems is welcome to check out my Facebook group. We have almost 4100 members. A lot of great content. If you just want to complain, don’t bother. You wont last long before getting booted.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
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I wouldn't bother joining a juvenile group of yours so don't flatter yourself. Go back to your safe space.
 
Put up some big time power numbers since he was last in MLB. Hopefully something has clicked since then and can give the Reds some value. May be a sign Votto is further off than we think adding 1B in February.
www.redlegnation.com

Cincinnati Reds sign slugger Kennys Vargas for 2023 - Redleg Nation

The Cincinnati Reds and Kennys Vargas have agreed to a minor league deal for 2023 that includes an invite to Major League spring training.
www.redlegnation.com www.redlegnation.com
 
kywildcatsfannumber1 said:
www.mlbtraderumors.com

Latest On Nick Senzel's Injury Rehab

Nick Senzel saw his 2022 season cut a little short after fracturing a toe in his left foot in September. …
www.mlbtraderumors.com www.mlbtraderumors.com
www.mlbtraderumors.com

Mike Minor Likely To Throw For Teams Later This Month

Lefty Mike Minor considered retirement last year, but he's now planning to audition for teams later this month. Read more at MLB Trade Rumors.
www.mlbtraderumors.com www.mlbtraderumors.com
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Sad, can't keep Senzel healthy enough to dump him.

FO had 2 jobs in the off season: Rebuild a paltry OF and find an innings eater starting pitcher. They failed each in epic fashion.
 
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mrschwump said:
Sad, can't keep Senzel healthy enough to dump him.

FO had 2 jobs in the off season: Rebuild a paltry OF and find an innings eater starting pitcher. They failed each in epic fashion.
Click to expand...
Saw where Lopez was DFA'd and the Reds sent OF Justin Boyd to Cleveland for outfielder Will Benson. Hopefully he can help the Reds this year as the outfield situation needed to be addressed more prior to this move.

www.redlegnation.com

Reds trade for Will Benson from the Guardians, DFA Alejo Lopez - Redleg Nation

The Cincinnati Reds have acquired slugger Will Benson in a trade with the Cleveland Guardians and designated Alejo Lopez for assignment.
www.redlegnation.com www.redlegnation.com
 
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Decent power numbers, cut his strikeout rate down to 22.7%, 18.7 % walk rate. Curious as to why the Guardians were willing to move him coming off one of his best seasons in MILB with significant improvement. With Cincinnati needing quality outfielders , have to roll with him the best outfield prospects still lower in the system. Would much prefer to see him and Hopkins over Senzel, Friedl & Fairchild. His power and speed for a 5 tool player in GABP if he pans out would be more power than Boyd would ever bring to the lineup who is a speedster/high average hitter.
 
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kybloo92 said:
Decent power numbers, cut his strikeout rate down to 22.7%, 18.7 % walk rate. Curious as to why the Guardians were willingly move him coming off one of his best seasons with significant improvement but if you're Cincinnati needing outfielders now, have to roll with him the best outfield prospects still lower in the system. Would much prefer to see him and Hopkins over Senzel, Friedl & Fairchild. His power and speed for a 5 tool player in GABP if he pans out would be more power than Boyd would ever bring to the lineup who is a speedster/high average hitter.
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Doubt Cleveland is moving him if they felt he could sustain that level of success based on his MILB career numbers. The Guardians outfield struggled in 2022, experimented with Amed Rosario transitioning from the infield to the outfield part-time (novel concept) and Oscar Gonzalez has high upside but struggled in '22. Hopefully the trade pays off and I don't fault the Reds for the gumption of adding a player that needs to help the Reds at the MLB Level over a 2nd round pick in Boyd that is going to be a few years off from helping the Reds. Would bet Boyd makes his MLB Debut sooner in Cleveland or another organization than he would staying in the Reds system.
 
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