Reds

[M4CAT]

Reds Jacob Hurtubise, Zach Maxwell, Jayvien Sandridge & Carson Spiers have all looked good in the Arizona Fall League.

Hurtubise .290, 13 RBIs & 9 SBs in 91 plate appearances.
Maxwell 1.86 ERA, 17 K's in 7 games and reaching triple digits on the radar gun.
Sandridge 1.42 ERA, 13 K's in 6 games.
Spiers 3-1, 3.86 ERA & 16 K's in 4 games.

Was hoping to see more out of Andrew Moore so far and Michael Trautwein given the lack of depth at catcher in the farm system. As long as Stephenson stays healthy and Maile can continue to be a serviceable backup the Reds will be fine for a few years there.

Seems to me the Reds are having a much better showing in the AZFL than last year's bunch did despite seeing how it launched McLain's career into being called up and Hinds had a good season in Chatanooga. Hopefully Hurtubise and Dunn take the outfield spots of Fairchild and Bader going into free agency. Good to see Spiers doing well and the Reds might have to rely on him again in 2024. Moore, Dunn & Stoudt seem like just a couple of throw in pieces from the Seattle deals. Moore has dealt with injuries that has slowed down his development and Stoudt just isn't very good. Cincinnati already moved on from Justin Dunn & Vladimir Gutierrez.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

Forgot to add Bryce Hubbart's stat line, 3.86 ERA, 1.11 WHIP with 9 K's in 11 2/3 innings.

 

[trueblujr2]

Are Lodolo and Ashcraft expected to be ready to go by Spring Training? Unless they make a splash FA acquisition or trade, I see Hunter Greene as the Opening day starter, followed by Abbott, Ashcraft, Lodolo, then likely Williamson.

 

[maysvilleky]

Are Lodolo and Ashcraft expected to be ready to go by Spring Training? Unless they make a splash FA acquisition or trade, I see Hunter Greene as the Opening day starter, followed by Abbott, Ashcraft, Lodolo, then likely Williamson.

They have to get bullpen help. Most of the starters listed will only go 5 or 6 innings. The relievers are going to have to cover almost as many innings as the starters. That’s what killed the Reds when it counted.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

Are Lodolo and Ashcraft expected to be ready to go by Spring Training? Unless they make a splash FA acquisition or trade, I see Hunter Greene as the Opening day starter, followed by Abbott, Ashcraft, Lodolo, then likely Williamson.

The Reds have said Ashcraft will be ready for Spring Training. Would assume barring any setbacks Lodolo will be as well having been shutdown since May.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

They have to get bullpen help. Most of the starters listed will only go 5 or 6 innings. The relievers are going to have to cover almost as many innings as the starters. That’s what killed the Reds when it counted.

With the rotation as it stands today barring any free agent additions or trades (Greene, Abbott, Ashcraft, Lodolo, Williamson & Phillips) I would still like to see the Reds sign a durable innings eater that will be an ace to this young team, sign a reliable setup man before Diaz and convert one of those pitchers or someone like Lyon Richardson and Carson Spiers to be a long man/rubber arm out of the bullpen to eat multiple innings if a starter gets chased early or gets injured. No more Luke Weaver signings.

 

[CB3UK]

First Spring Training game is Feb 24th v Cleveland. Seems like an eternity away.

 

[kybloo92]

Texas, they have never won and due a World Series.

Phil Castellini will want to hang a banner for sweeping Texas.

Rangers won it all. Called it all the way back on October 4th.

 

[trueblujr2]

They have to get bullpen help. Most of the starters listed will only go 5 or 6 innings. The relievers are going to have to cover almost as many innings as the starters. That’s what killed the Reds when it counted.

I think Abbott has the makings of an innings eater once he gets more experience under his belt. He seems pretty durable even though he hit the proverbial wall towards the end of the year, but that was to be expected. He had never pitched that much in his life, but I do think in a year or two he will become a guy who can push 7 innings on a pretty regular basis.

 

[trueblujr2]

With the rotation as it stands today barring any free agent additions or trades (Greene, Abbott, Ashcraft, Lodolo, Williamson & Phillips) I would still like to see the Reds sign a durable innings eater that will be an ace to this young team, sign a reliable setup man before Diaz and convert one of those pitchers or someone like Lyon Richardson and Carson Spiers to be a long man/rubber arm out of the bullpen to eat multiple innings if a starter gets chased early or gets injured. No more Luke Weaver signings.

I agree. Who are some likely viable candidates out there in the FA market that the Reds could pick up to fit that bill for a couple of years?

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

I agree. Who are some likely viable candidates out there in the FA market that the Reds could pick up to fit that bill for a couple of years?

If Eduardo Rodriguez opts out, that is one name I have seen many articles rumor him to be linked to the Reds since trade deadline. Apparently he wants to be on a team close to family on the east coast and vetoed a trade to the Dodgers. JMO on these guys, but think they a Sonny Gray reunion makes sense with Derek Johnson. Then you have Lorenzen, Jordan Montgomery out there who will definitely get paid after the WS. Giolito who doesn't exactly excite me but would eat innings. Not sure he is an upgrade to the pitchers in the rotation above if they are all healthy and reach their potential. Maybe the Reds look at the trade market and unload prospects for Shane Bieber?

 

[trueblujr2]

If Eduardo Rodriguez opts out, that is one name I have seen many articles rumor him to be linked to the Reds since trade deadline. Apparently he wants to be on a team close to family on the east coast and vetoed a trade to the Dodgers. JMO on these guys, but think they a Sonny Gray reunion makes sense with Derek Johnson. Then you have Lorenzen, Jordan Montgomery out there who will definitely get paid after the WS. Giolito who doesn't exactly excite me but would eat innings. Not sure he is an upgrade to the pitchers in the rotation above if they are all healthy and reach their potential. Maybe the Reds look at the trade market and unload prospects for Shane Bieber?

Everybody talks about India and how he's important for team chemistry and in the clubhouse, but IMO, holding on to him just because of that creates logjams in the infield and holds some guys back or puts them in limbo. I could understand not moving him for chemistry reasons at the mid-season trade deadline, but in the offseason, I think they seriously need to look at him as trade bait to get either a high level rotation guy, or an OF with some power capable of producing 35-40 homers in GABP, the latter may not be as necessary, I'd still like to see what CES, Marte and EDLC could produce given a full season.

Speaking of EDLC, I really think he needs to find a way to shorten his strike zone. at a lanky 6'-5" or 6'-6", his strike zone just seems huge. He has a chance to put up huge numbers, but I think he is always going to be a very streaky hitter prone to slumps.

 

[mrschwump]

Everybody talks about India and how he's important for team chemistry and in the clubhouse, but IMO, holding on to him just because of that creates logjams in the infield and holds some guys back or puts them in limbo. I could understand not moving him for chemistry reasons at the mid-season trade deadline, but in the offseason, I think they seriously need to look at him as trade bait to get either a high level rotation guy, or an OF with some power capable of producing 35-40 homers in GABP, the latter may not be as necessary, I'd still like to see what CES, Marte and EDLC could produce given a full season.

Speaking of EDLC, I really think he needs to find a way to shorten his strike zone. at a lanky 6'-5" or 6'-6", his strike zone just seems huge. He has a chance to put up huge numbers, but I think he is always going to be a very streaky hitter prone to slumps.

That team chemistry thing doesn't wash. If that was the case why didn't they keep K. Farmer, Solano, Casali, Barnhart....they were all "team chemistry" guys? Trade India before he gets older, one of the few veteran players who has even modest value.

 

[trueblujr2]

That team chemistry thing doesn't wash. If that was the case why didn't they keep K. Farmer, Solano, Casali, Barnhart....they were all "team chemistry" guys? Trade India before he gets older, one of the few veteran players who has even modest value.

This, Like I said, Trading him mid season when they had hopes of a playoff push, probably not a good idea. but 2024 is a whole new season, let one of these other guys become that clubhouse chemistry guy. Just do what it takes to solidify the lineup and keep from bouncing guys around all over the place. let some of these players settle into a position and lineup spot and maybe we will see more consistency.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

Everybody talks about India and how he's important for team chemistry and in the clubhouse, but IMO, holding on to him just because of that creates logjams in the infield and holds some guys back or puts them in limbo. I could understand not moving him for chemistry reasons at the mid-season trade deadline, but in the offseason, I think they seriously need to look at him as trade bait to get either a high level rotation guy, or an OF with some power capable of producing 35-40 homers in GABP, the latter may not be as necessary, I'd still like to see what CES, Marte and EDLC could produce given a full season.

Speaking of EDLC, I really think he needs to find a way to shorten his strike zone. at a lanky 6'-5" or 6'-6", his strike zone just seems huge. He has a chance to put up huge numbers, but I think he is always going to be a very streaky hitter prone to slumps.

I am with you that the Reds could use a huge impact 35-40 HR guy in the outfield and hope they make it happen. Hope they hold onto Friedl, Benson and use Steer in LF still for the same reason of the infield logjam. As far as Fraley, he is a nice player but is as good as he will get IMO and injury prone. If the Reds had room to make him a full-time DH then I would be all for keeping him but would consider trading him in a package for that coveted outfielder, ace or a reliever. There is room to improve over him and the Reds have the prospects to make some quality trades happen.

 

[kybloo92]

That team chemistry thing doesn't wash. If that was the case why didn't they keep K. Farmer, Solano, Casali, Barnhart....they were all "team chemistry" guys? Trade India before he gets older, one of the few veteran players who has even modest value.

Farmer was a solid player who played hard but nowhere near the talent of the infielders around him to be apart of the future infield to include India. Solano is old, injured most of his 1 year with Cincinnati and did next to nothing here. Wound up bringing Casali back and kept 3 catchers around though I don't expect Cincinnati to keep 3 going into 2024. Barnhart was one of the greatest catchers the Reds have had in recent years behind the plate but a terrible hitter with a bad contract that Cincinnati had to dump but still wound up reaching out to him for a return after 1 year in Detroit.

I get Jonathan India needs to step it up but he likely is getting traded for someone else to deal with. Will have to be realistic in what you expect the Reds to get in return if you don't think he is good enough to keep over the younger infielders to come and rival teams are going to rightlly be concerned over his plantar fasciitis. I don't underestimate the value of team chemistry. Promote all of these young infielders at once their egos will get in the way if one has to sacrafice playing time. Arroyo is on track to be called up in 2024 but even moving on from India there is no room for everyday playing time for him.

Will say though if there is a time to hit the reset button for team leadership, now would be it with Votto likely out the door too and he is as vital to team chemistry as anyone on this team but simply can't hold onto him anymore for old times sake. It will concern me if Cincinnati doesn't go out and find someone with postseason experience whether it is a RF or starting pitcher than can bring the leadership that would be lost and has the experience in October that the Reds are lacking.

 

[mrschwump]

Farmer was a solid player who played hard but nowhere near the talent of the infielders around him to be apart of the future infield to include India. Solano is old, injured most of his 1 year with Cincinnati and did next to nothing here. Wound up bringing Casali back and kept 3 catchers around though I don't expect Cincinnati to keep 3 going into 2024. Barnhart was one of the greatest catchers the Reds have had in recent years behind the plate but a terrible hitter with a bad contract that Cincinnati had to dump but still wound up reaching out to him for a return after 1 year in Detroit.

I get Jonathan India needs to step it up but he likely is getting traded for someone else to deal with. Will have to be realistic in what you expect the Reds to get in return if you don't think he is good enough to keep over the younger infielders to come and rival teams are going to rightlly be concerned over his plantar fasciitis. I don't underestimate the value of team chemistry. Promote all of these young infielders at once their egos will get in the way if one has to sacrafice playing time. Arroyo is on track to be called up in 2024 but even moving on from India there is no room for everyday playing time for him.

Will say though if there is a time to hit the reset button for team leadership, now would be it with Votto likely out the door too and he is as vital to team chemistry as anyone on this team but simply can't hold onto him anymore for old times sake. It will concern me if Cincinnati doesn't go out and find someone with postseason experience whether it is a RF or starting pitcher than can bring the leadership that would be lost and has the experience in October that the Reds are lacking.

I guess some think me crazy but I think the Reds should entertain offers for Freidl. He had a nice year but in reality is of limited ability and has likely reached his pinnacle. He's the type of player who could be hitting .230 in 2 years. I like him, he plays hard although throwing is below average. I just feel the Reds have some young guys who'll bring more offense without suffering the defense. Probably won't happen but the Reds may look back in 2 years and wished they'd dealt him.

 

[kybloo92]

I guess some think me crazy but I think the Reds should entertain offers for Freidl. He had a nice year but in reality is of limited ability and has likely reached his pinnacle. He's the type of player who could be hitting .230 in 2 years. I like him, he plays hard although throwing is below average. I just feel the Reds have some young guys who'll bring more offense without suffering the defense. Probably won't happen but the Reds may look back in 2 years and wished they'd dealt him.

I think it's fair to expect some regression out of Friedl after the season he had. Would love to see him turn out to be Brett Gardner or Harrison Bader during his peak with St. Louis. Outside of pitching I still see the outfield as an area the Reds need to improve and a chance to add an impact power bat to the lineup. Friedl has the range for CF but not a strong enough arm. Fraley is a LF and a stop gap RF and much prefer Steer everyday in left over Fraley. I'd be fine with Benson, Friedl & Steer everyday but we know Bell is going to overmanage without an everyday set lineup with the L/R splits. Benson gives them true versatility in all 3 spots but still needs to improve defensively. Has all the tools necessary to be a star outfielder in time but will need to see him be able to sustain it more than a season. Like Friedl, they both took a huge leap forward this past season. Reds have plenty of options for LF and need a big time power bat in RF. As far as Fairchild & Senzel forth, they need to get replaced by Dunn, Hinds or Hurtubise.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

I think it's fair to expect some regression out of Friedl after the season he had. Would love to see him turn out to be Brett Gardner or Harrison Bader during his peak with St. Louis. Outside of pitching I still see the outfield as an area the Reds need to improve and a chance to add an impact power bat to the lineup. Friedl has the range for CF but not a strong enough arm. Fraley is a LF and a stop gap RF and much prefer Steer everyday in left over Fraley. I'd be fine with Benson, Friedl & Steer everyday but we know Bell is going to overmanage without an everyday set lineup with the L/R splits. Benson gives them true versatility in all 3 spots but still needs to improve defensively. Has all the tools necessary to be a star outfielder in time but will need to see him be able to sustain it more than a season. Like Friedl, they both took a huge leap forward this past season. Reds have plenty of options for LF and need a big time power bat in RF. As far as Fairchild & Senzel forth, they need to get replaced by Dunn, Hinds or Hurtubise.

Hinds will give you power in RF. Dunn is primarily a CF and Hurtubise plays all 3 but mostly in the corner outfield spots. Still have Hopkins around the organization but the Reds will have to look elsewhere for an MLB ready outfielder who will bring the raw power to the lineup to hit 30-40 out. Hinds hit 23 HR & 98 RBIs in 412 AB's but yet to make it Louisville. Same with Dunn still in Chattanooga.

 

[kybloo92]

Hinds will give you power in RF. Dunn is primarily a CF and Hurtubise plays all 3 but mostly in the corner outfield spots. Still have Hopkins around the organization but the Reds will have to look elsewhere for an MLB ready outfielder who will bring the raw power to the lineup to hit 30-40 out. Hinds hit 23 HR & 98 RBIs in 412 AB's but yet to make it Louisville. Same with Dunn still in Chattanooga.

I don't think I can sit through another season of watching minor league journeymen like Ramos, has been like Wil Myers and rejects like Nick Senzel. Especially when you have options like Blake Dunn already 25 who was the Reds minor league player of the year, Hurtubise in the Arizona Fall League this year getting fast tracked & Hinds with AZFL experience last year.

 

[kybloo92]

Hope Craig Counsell takes the managerial job with Cleveland or New York. If Milwaukee loses him and Corbin Burnes this offseason, that will knock them down a notch. Counsell has done a really good job with the Brewers team during his time as their manager and kind of shocked he is looking elsewhere unless he feels they are about to go into a rebuilding phase.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

 

[M4CAT]

I think it's fair to expect some regression out of Friedl after the season he had. Would love to see him turn out to be Brett Gardner or Harrison Bader during his peak with St. Louis. Outside of pitching I still see the outfield as an area the Reds need to improve and a chance to add an impact power bat to the lineup. Friedl has the range for CF but not a strong enough arm. Fraley is a LF and a stop gap RF and much prefer Steer everyday in left over Fraley. I'd be fine with Benson, Friedl & Steer everyday but we know Bell is going to overmanage without an everyday set lineup with the L/R splits. Benson gives them true versatility in all 3 spots but still needs to improve defensively. Has all the tools necessary to be a star outfielder in time but will need to see him be able to sustain it more than a season. Like Friedl, they both took a huge leap forward this past season. Reds have plenty of options for LF and need a big time power bat in RF. As far as Fairchild & Senzel forth, they need to get replaced by Dunn, Hinds or Hurtubise.

He won't hit for near the same power consistently enough that Brett Gardner did. They're short and outfielders with some speed but that's about where comparisons end. Gardner was built like a brick shithouse for his size. A Bader comparison is more accurate for when he is healthy and not in a slump like he was in New York and his cup of coffee with the Reds this year.

 

[M4CAT]

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I'll believe it when I see it. Will have to be thinking about which players to sign contract extensions to next while plugging holes on the roster. They need players to build around. Not rentals or mediocre stop gaps.

 

[CB3UK]

It's official. The Joey Votto Era is over in Cincinnati.

The Joey Votto Era in Cincinnati is over

The Reds declined the option on his contract for 2024, rendering him a free agent.

www.redreporter.com

 

[rick64]

 

[kybloo92]

Reds will be better off for it as it opens doors for much deserving young talent like CES to grow everyday at 1B and everyday AB's for the infield logjam with an opening at DH. If Votto forced the Reds hand demanding a routine amount of playing time as Krall seems to allude to along with a $20 million option for 2024, they had no choice to decline. Everyone saw it coming, not surprising at all. It's time for a new era of Reds baseball and hopefully a winning era with a promising core of young players to build around for the future.

 

[M4CAT]

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Cincinnati was never picking up that $20 million option. Would be bad baseball business. Teams decline options all the time, just a formality and that doesn't necessarily mean a player won't return to that team by the move in of itself on a cheaper deal. The damning part of that statement from Krall sure makes it seem like Joey Votto thinks he can still play everyday at this stage of his career and that's just not realistic if you expect to contend. He'll be an expensive hitting coach/mentor for a year for a Vlad Guerrero Jr or someone like that in Toronto. Just not here anymore. No contender is looking to add a .202 hitter in their age 41 season.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

 

[trueblujr2]

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Will be interesting to see where he lands. I can't see a contender taking him on considering his age and recent injury history. what I do hope is that once he does decide to hang it up, the Reds do one of those one day contract things so he can officially retire a Red. He needs to go in the HOF as a Red.

 

[trueblujr2]

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He knew all along it was going to happen. He's a classy guy.

 

[kywildcatsfannumber1]

 

[mrschwump]

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Now that's how you go all in to win your division.

 

[kybloo92]

This is the time for the Reds to make their push for the NL Central while St. Louis is down, Pittsburgh still rebuilding and looks like the window is closing for Milwaukee losing Counsell and are expected to move Burnes this offseason. I don't see how they are going to be the favorites without their former Cy Young Award winner and Counsell who I believe made them better. He was a great fit for that team. Cubs win here and hoping the Reds do as well if this decision makes the Brewers fade away with one less challenger if they fall apart. They still have some good pieces on their pitching staff but never really been sold on them offensively. Not even huge on Yelich who had a good year but nothing like his MVP season 5+ years ago.

 

[M4CAT]

This is the time for the Reds to make their push for the NL Central while St. Louis is down, Pittsburgh still rebuilding and looks like the window is closing for Milwaukee losing Counsell and are expected to move Burnes this offseason. I don't see how they are going to be the favorites without their former Cy Young Award winner and Counsell who I believe made them better. He was a great fit for that team. Cubs win here and hoping the Reds do as well if this decision makes the Brewers fade away with one less challenger if they fall apart. They still have some good pieces on their pitching staff but never really been sold on them offensively. Not even huge on Yelich who had a good year but nothing like his MVP season 5+ years ago.

Thought Counsell would be a lifer in Milwaukee after playing their twice and having their best run since the Cecil Cooper, Yount & Molitor years. Can't blame him though for not wanting to go through a rebuild after getting the Brewers to the top of the NL Central and go somewhere that will spend. Thought that would be the Mets but they aren't expected to win for a couple years either. Should be interesting next time Cubs go to Milwaukee.

 

[trueblujr2]

This is the time for the Reds to make their push for the NL Central while St. Louis is down, Pittsburgh still rebuilding and looks like the window is closing for Milwaukee losing Counsell and are expected to move Burnes this offseason. I don't see how they are going to be the favorites without their former Cy Young Award winner and Counsell who I believe made them better. He was a great fit for that team. Cubs win here and hoping the Reds do as well if this decision makes the Brewers fade away with one less challenger if they fall apart. They still have some good pieces on their pitching staff but never really been sold on them offensively. Not even huge on Yelich who had a good year but nothing like his MVP season 5+ years ago.

Any chance the Reds could afford Burnes?

 

[kybloo92]

Any chance the Reds could afford Burnes?

For 1 year left on the contract definitely could with the right prospect haul if they decided to start moving some and make Milwaukee eat the salary in return. Wish he wasn't in the NL Central then maybe the Brewers would consider trading him here but have my doubts about Krall giving up what it would take for a 1 year rental like that. For a pitcher of his caliber, $14.1 million is what he is estimated to make in 2024 then an unrestricted free agent. A good price for the front line ace that Cincinnati needs for 1 season considering what they paid Mike Minor in 2022, $10 million. I read an article today that even made it sound like Sonny Gray is going to be out of reach for the Reds and opting for cheaper options like Sean Manaea which is not an upgrade before Greene, Ashcraft, Abbott or a healthy Lodolo.

 

[mrschwump]

For 1 year left on the contract definitely could with the right prospect haul if they decided to start moving some and make Milwaukee eat the salary in return. Wish he wasn't in the NL Central then maybe the Brewers would consider trading him here but have my doubts about Krall giving up what it would take for a 1 year rental like that. For a pitcher of his caliber, $14.1 million is what he is estimated to make in 2024 then an unrestricted free agent. A good price for the front line ace that Cincinnati needs for 1 season considering what they paid Mike Minor in 2022, $10 million. I read an article today that even made it sound like Sonny Gray is going to be out of reach for the Reds and opting for cheaper options like Sean Manaea which is not an upgrade before Greene, Ashcraft, Abbott or a healthy Lodolo.

Don't think any top SP will sign on to make roughly half their starts in hitter-friendly GABP.

 

[kybloo92]

Don't think any top SP will sign on to make roughly half their starts in hitter-friendly GABP.

The Reds have plenty of assets in the farm system to acquire a top SP. Free agency is not the only way to add pitching to this team.

 

[mrschwump]

The Reds have plenty of assets in the farm system to acquire a top SP. Free agency is not the only way to add pitching to this team.

Oh I agree, regardless a 4th/5th starter is about the best they can hope for. Reds need to figure out how to keep their homegrown SPs healthy, build the BP, add everyday RH power hitter.