Listening to both Coaches Mark Stoops and Eddie Gran makes me believe the leash will be short with Johnson. I think Johnson could lose the position in camp.
Quarterback
- Thread starter BARRYBLUE1
- Start date
I believe they said Johnson will start the first game so I don't think he'll lose it before then, but the other qbs might catch up to him and the coaches might have a quick hook if he's not doing well.
Johnson is a solid QB he has touch and throws a great deep ball. I know he will take better care of the ball I believe he was forcing things during the spring game I really do... Either way I'll support our staff but I like having a dual threat guy it takes pressure off everyone you can't just play 2, 2 man, cov 6 or bracket u have to try many different schemes to limit his ability to run.
The fact that Johnson came into the SEC from being a JUCO. Doing what he did in his first year. He at least deserves the chance. I also would hate to lose the added benefit of his ability to run the ball and extend play or to make something out of nothing.
I think we'll see a QB rotation during the first 2-3 games. Johnson will start, but Barker will have some scripted series. I think they'll settle on one qb by the third game.
Barker needs to prove he can run the RPO and at least make teams respect him running the ball 5-7 times a game. He also needs to prove he's healthy enough to take a hard hit.
Johnson needs to prove he can be consistent with the intermediate passing game and connect with his TE's and crossing routes. He also needs to prove he can protect the football.
We have 3 good qb's. Not sure we have 1 great one. I really think we'll have a good/great qb at season's end. I do have confidence in all 3 qb's. I can't ever remember saying that in the last 25 years.
No way he should lose his job in camp unless he is totally incompetent. I think the best thing would be if he played so well there would be no controversy
I thought it was significant that they announced SJ would be the "starter in the first game" not "the starter". There is a significant distinction between the two. I think they give SJ the benefit of the doubt and he has earned it, but they are also saying that they need to see some improvement in parts of the passing game, as well as ball security.
Johnson will not lose his job. I have not read anything from any coach that even remotely resembles a new starter. I see a bunch of wishful thinking for some reason in this thread
SJ has earned the right to start. If he's better than the average SJ of '16, he'll keep the job imo. If he's the average of '16 or regresses, I think the next two are too good to tolerate that level of performance. I mean if you want to improve as an O, all positions need to step up, including QB. I'm not rooting. I think we all just need to let it play out. Gran & Hinshaw will make good decisions imo.
There won't be any backup QB scripted plays. Barker will get snaps if there is mop up duty or an injury in the first 3 games.
If Vegas had a prop bet about Barker playing in the first half against SMU I would make the wager.
I hope SJ improves his game and establishes himself as the unquestioned starter. But, I don't see it happening before game three. Stoops knows he now has some talent at QB. He'll let competition bring out the best, then settle on one QB. That's why I would take the prop bet in game one, but not in game 4.
There are people on this board that are hoping for Johnson to fail. Please understand that if he fails then thecseason is doomed because our backups are not ready for SEC competition. Stephen Johnson won 7 games last year while Drew Barker won none. Gunnar Hoak is a freshman and needs seasoning to play vs the SEC and win. Stephen Johnson will get the job done. The best way for Kentucky to have a chance at the East Title is stability at QB. Our running game is our strength and Johnson provides the best mobility of the 3 QB's.
I'm certainly not rooting for SJ to fail. But, I don't think there is any question that Barker and Hoak are the better passing QBs. I appreciate everything SJ did for UK last year. He does have some intangibles that are hard to measure. But, if he struggles to throw the ball consistently well, you don't have any choice but to give one of the other guys a chance.
This is an important season for UK football. The schedule is as friendly as it will ever get in the SEC. Sticking with a QB that is struggling could be the difference in this being an excellent season or finishing with another .500 season. We all heard that SJ improved some during the spring but then didn't have the greatest spring game. That can happen to anyone. But, anyone can hand the ball off to Benny. I also want someone with some consistency when delivering the ball through the air.
Hopefully SJ is the guy. If not though, we can't afford to stick with him 3, 4, 5 games before making a change. Just my 2 cents and it probably isn't even worth that much.
This is an important season for UK football. The schedule is as friendly as it will ever get in the SEC. Sticking with a QB that is struggling could be the difference in this being an excellent season or finishing with another .500 season. We all heard that SJ improved some during the spring but then didn't have the greatest spring game. That can happen to anyone. But, anyone can hand the ball off to Benny. I also want someone with some consistency when delivering the ball through the air.
Hopefully SJ is the guy. If not though, we can't afford to stick with him 3, 4, 5 games before making a change. Just my 2 cents and it probably isn't even worth that much.
SJ had an outstanding UofL game and benefitted from the run-first offensive success of Boom/Benny.
For this he earned a right to start.
However, this staff realizes the opportunity for breakout success this year and won't allow for a single soul on team regress with the overall depth that was developed.
The locker Room will recognize the true talent and rally around the best person to win games. If it's Hoak, so be it - regardless of experience.
For this he earned a right to start.
However, this staff realizes the opportunity for breakout success this year and won't allow for a single soul on team regress with the overall depth that was developed.
The locker Room will recognize the true talent and rally around the best person to win games. If it's Hoak, so be it - regardless of experience.
I disagree with the majority of your post. Barker has shown nothing in game situations. Hoak is completely unknown. Johnson played very well down the stretch last year. Why would stephen get worse?
Well, based on the coaches watching them play everyday and seeing things with my own eyes this spring and based on others observations, Hoak and Barker are better passing QBs. I don't think you will find too many that will debate that, save maybe you.
As for Barker and Hoaks' game experience, I'll give you that. We need to see something from them in a real game. SJ has already shown he can do it.
Also, I'm not saying SJ has gotten worse. No way to know until we see him play again. I'm willing to see what he can do and he will get that oppotunity being that he is starting the first game.
But, if you're saying you'd stick with him for as many games as he needs, even if he is struggling, you lose me there. We need to play the most effective player period. No matter who that is.
i agree with ulismyman.... SJ put the ball on the ground way too much. Had there been someone else available he might have got the hook last year. But we and the Staff cannot deny his results and he has earned respect... Like a good golfer (yesterday example), the ability to shake off a bad shot, or play is important... SJ has a lot of the "it-factor".
Nobody should judge SJ by the spring game, it is meaningless. The number one goal of spring is to get out of it healthy. That completely negates his most dangerous ability because they weren't gonna let him pull it down and take a chance on an injury. The other two QBs aren't even close to SJ in that respect, nobody can dispute this. If they told all of the QBs their lives depended on their performance in the spring game then I'm taking SJ, no doubt about it. If he's forced to stay in the pocket and dink and dunk he will struggle more than the other two, we all know that. But that's not what this offense will be when it matters.
As far as the "will start game one" designation, imo that is the way they should look at EVERY position. No controversy in saying that. There's not one player on the team that has been so good that they're guaranteed to start the whole season (Snell is close but we don't know what Rose will do, he could be the second coming of Barry Sanders for all we know). They're not doing their jobs otherwise. You go game to game, factor in opponent strength/weakness, team chemistry etc and make the best call you can.
SJ is the starter for now. We'll see if he keeps it after the trip to Hattiesburg. SJ knows the other guys are nipping at his heels, but he proved last year that he is a tough dude with a huge heart. IMO he's gonna be improved in every aspect, come out laser focused with guns blazing and not look back. That is the best case scenario for the team. Stoops has options if it doesn't work out that way but there's no way I'm betting against SJ. His journey to UK has been amazing and I'm rooting hard for that dude.
As far as the "will start game one" designation, imo that is the way they should look at EVERY position. No controversy in saying that. There's not one player on the team that has been so good that they're guaranteed to start the whole season (Snell is close but we don't know what Rose will do, he could be the second coming of Barry Sanders for all we know). They're not doing their jobs otherwise. You go game to game, factor in opponent strength/weakness, team chemistry etc and make the best call you can.
SJ is the starter for now. We'll see if he keeps it after the trip to Hattiesburg. SJ knows the other guys are nipping at his heels, but he proved last year that he is a tough dude with a huge heart. IMO he's gonna be improved in every aspect, come out laser focused with guns blazing and not look back. That is the best case scenario for the team. Stoops has options if it doesn't work out that way but there's no way I'm betting against SJ. His journey to UK has been amazing and I'm rooting hard for that dude.
I think SJ keeps his job if he can hold onto the ball. His deep ball is a thing of beauty and I love his confidence on the field. But if he starts putting it on the ground like last year, I say he's a goner.
I don't think there is a UK fan alive who wants SJ to fail, how you come up with that I don't know. There could be a few who expect him to fail but that is only their opinion, and opinions are like ,,,,,
In a perfect world, I think Stoops wants to run the ball and control the clock on offense while generating quick three and outs / turnovers on defense. For this type of team, Johnson is a perfectly serviceable quarterback. With Johnson at QB, you'll most likely never have an offense that cranks out 40 points a game because there are clear holes in Johnson's game, but with the right supporting cast he's a winning quarterback because of the run/pass option, his touch on the long ball, and his intangibles (leadership, poise, et al). However, I can see some scenarios that would lead to a change at QB, some of them have to do with Johnson, some of them out of his control.
- Teams could exploit the holes in Johnson's game: This is my biggest fear. Last year, Johnson really struggled with intermediate routes (outs, digs, and the TE seam). Teams could conceivably load up the box while playing three deep, taking away the deep passing game and overloading the line of scrimmage in the run game. In such a defense they would essentially be "giving us" intermediate routes under the assumption that Johnson can't complete them consistently enough to maintain long drives. If I was USM's DC, that's exactly what I'd do. If Johnson can't make them pay in the 10 to 20 yard area from the LOS, he's a burden to the offense.
- The Return of fumbleitus: It goes without saying that you cannot run a ball control offense with a quarterback that can't control the ball. Johnson has had trouble with this issue in the past (Vandy, MSU) and it could rear its ugly head again. What's more, ball control problems affect the confidence of the player and his teammates, which could create a devastating problem on offense.
- No Vertical threat in the passing game: If we don't find a suitable replacement for Badet in the vertical passing game then Johnson's ability the throw the long ball is negated. Ironically, when I look at our roster, I see lots of guys that could produce between the hashes with the right QB (Juice, Conrad, Bowden), but I don't see many proven guys that are legitimate downfield threats. If we can't stretch the field vertically on the outside then Johnson's problem with intermediate routes is compounded. Gran would have to change the gameplan to more of a west coast / dink-and-dunk offence. Hello Gunnar Hoak.
- A porous defense necessitates a fast-paced offense: If our defense really let's the team down by giving up tons of yards and points then we may have to win games by outscoring the opponent. These type of track meet games require a QB that makes lighting fast choices and his extremely accurate. Johnson has many positive attributes, but he'll never be one of these 70% completion types that lives on sticking the slant seven times in one drive. He's a QB for a downhill running game and vertical passing game, not the Art Briles style run and shoot. For our sake, let's hope this one doesn't pan out because the season would be a disaster.
- Someone else goes above and beyond: This may be a bad scenario for Johnson, but it may be the best scenario for the team. It goes something like this: Barker (in this scenario, Hoak or Clark are just as likely candidates) is outperforming Johnson on a daily basis in practice. In early season mop up duty, Barker torches opposition defenses. By mid-season, Barker is clearly outperforming Johnson in practice and begins getting more reps earlier in less lopsided games and plays well. In this scenario, Johnson has done nothing to lose his job, but Barker has worked his way into the conversation. In such a situation, the staff realizes that a team led by the best version of Johnson is really good, but a team led by the best version of Barker is much, much better. In this scenario Johnson fully taps his potential, but Barker--whose measurables are superior to Johnson's--does so as well.
Johnson and his improvement or lack there of it has to be the only reason he gets benched - I have to think he has improved a ton since arriving on campus- qb depth is a great thing to have - If Johnson has improved we are a dangerous team if not Hoak has proved he can spin it - I never have trusted Barker and I Hope he proves me wrong
Not to interject facts but if you look at the stats from last season you will find that Johnson is tied with the second most fumbles at 10 and behind two guys with 11, Thomas for GT and Hurts for Bama. Tied with Johnson is McSorley at PSU, Evans at VT, Dobbs at UT and Fine at North Texas. The group with 9 includes QB's at Texas A&M, USC, FSU, Hawaii, and BC (Towles). Lamar Jackson won the Heisman with 8 fumbles.
What you may notice is that there are a lot of great football programs and teams on that list. If you let your QB freelance and use his arm with the chance to run always on the table the ball is usually in a perilous position. That seems to be modern offensive football. Ball security is a big deal no doubt but evidently a lot of top coaches are willing to tolerate fumbles if the QB can score points with the offense by directing the offense successfully. He doesn't need to be a great passer or runner he just needs to be a great leader and use the tools at his disposal. With a lot of help from Gran and Hinshaw, Johnson did something really remarkable by running that limited offense successfully and saving this coaching regime, in my opinion. While he obviously isn't Peyton, Peyton didn't win a championship while Tee did and no one in their right mind would put Tee in the same universe as Peyton as a QB talent.
Johnson must improve his short game because defenses can take away the run and sometimes the deep ball like GT did. If others can play defense like that and Johnson can't beat them with short and mid level passes then he will be replaced. If he is adequate passing the ball and we win he will be the QB. He is well liked and respected by the team and coaches. He earned that too.
What you may notice is that there are a lot of great football programs and teams on that list. If you let your QB freelance and use his arm with the chance to run always on the table the ball is usually in a perilous position. That seems to be modern offensive football. Ball security is a big deal no doubt but evidently a lot of top coaches are willing to tolerate fumbles if the QB can score points with the offense by directing the offense successfully. He doesn't need to be a great passer or runner he just needs to be a great leader and use the tools at his disposal. With a lot of help from Gran and Hinshaw, Johnson did something really remarkable by running that limited offense successfully and saving this coaching regime, in my opinion. While he obviously isn't Peyton, Peyton didn't win a championship while Tee did and no one in their right mind would put Tee in the same universe as Peyton as a QB talent.
Johnson must improve his short game because defenses can take away the run and sometimes the deep ball like GT did. If others can play defense like that and Johnson can't beat them with short and mid level passes then he will be replaced. If he is adequate passing the ball and we win he will be the QB. He is well liked and respected by the team and coaches. He earned that too.
The guy out played the Heisman winner last season.
That alone gives him the start in the first game.
And 41-38 still feels good.....
That alone gives him the start in the first game.
And 41-38 still feels good.....
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I am confident SJ will be our September starter. But Coach Gran has more quality depth at quarterback this year than we have had in the past. When a team has quality depth at a position, the starter must perform. I don't believe they will put a short leash on SJ. That would mean pulling him after a bad quarter or a bad half. That's not happening. But SJ will have to win football games. The goal is to win. If SJ isn't putting our team in positions to win games, then next man up. SJ has been on campus since January '16. He has played in 2 BWGs and to be honest, he played about the same in both. In between, he produced 7 wins and outplayed Lamar Jackson. So what we have is an improving but inconsistent quarterback, capable of big games. The game changing turnovers have to go away, of course. Typically, seniors get better. If SJ keeps improving, then he will be fine and so will we.
I have seen SJ make great plays under pressure. The UL game showed SJ's ceiling. I have also seen SJ fumble and overthrow receivers under pressure. He is still learning from Coach Hinshaw. My guess is that we will see a better version of SJ as a senior. Whether fair or not, it probably just isn't realistic to judge Drew Barker's ceiling based on what we have seen so far. In November 2015, Barker was thrown to the wolves behind an offensive line that had not yet started playing well at that point, because our coaches at the time had lost patience with Towles. Because it has been publicly acknowledged, we know for sure that Barker's back was not right by June 2016. So he was not healthy last September, and there have been rumors that he was not healthy during the latter part of the 2015 season either. Different quarterbacks mature in different timeframes. If healthy, I don't doubt that Barker has the talent and work habits to be a successful SEC quarterback. But he probably won't get that chance until 2018.
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1. As has been noted many times.....Johnson was not just a one night wonder vs. UL. After really bad passing vs. USC and Vandy (albeit with a hand injury)....Johnson threw is very well vs. Miss ST (292 yards passing and 2 Td), Mizzou (208 yards and 2 Tds)he was good as well and solid in UT, UGA and Ga Tech game. He also came in during Austin Peay when UK was pitiful and go us going.
2. For those stating Barker and Hoak are better passers....Johnson is way better deep ball passer than Barker has ever shown (have no depth of how good Hoak is on deep ball). Sure the intermediate passing can improve...but too many act like Johnson is 2nd coming of Jalen Whitlow, Morgan Newton, etc..
3. Losing Johnson and you lose running threat which I think helped Benny/Boom and made the read option a legit dual threat for defense to deal with.
Finally which is usual for too many football fans....why do so many insist we have to put up 30+ and rack up 400 yards a game to win? We won 7 last year with what I'd label the worst Stoops defense in his era. I'd argue running the ball, controlling clock, great McKinnis kicking is how we won what we did last year. The best bet for UK to improve is almost totally on defense and punting game. Those two spots were not very good at all.
2. For those stating Barker and Hoak are better passers....Johnson is way better deep ball passer than Barker has ever shown (have no depth of how good Hoak is on deep ball). Sure the intermediate passing can improve...but too many act like Johnson is 2nd coming of Jalen Whitlow, Morgan Newton, etc..
3. Losing Johnson and you lose running threat which I think helped Benny/Boom and made the read option a legit dual threat for defense to deal with.
Finally which is usual for too many football fans....why do so many insist we have to put up 30+ and rack up 400 yards a game to win? We won 7 last year with what I'd label the worst Stoops defense in his era. I'd argue running the ball, controlling clock, great McKinnis kicking is how we won what we did last year. The best bet for UK to improve is almost totally on defense and punting game. Those two spots were not very good at all.
The premise of this thread from the OP seemed to be that SJ is on a "short leash" and might not survive August practice as the starter. As I said, I don't agree with that. Time will clarify all of this, but I believe SJ will be our 2017 starter unless he gets hurt. In 2016, SJ played well enough to win 7 games. He isn't a perfect quarterback, but another year with Coach Hinshaw should make him a better quarterback. I don't see anyone beating him out of the starting job.
Johnson should be starter going into season and is, but he will have to play better than last year to keep the job. With all due respect, he was not solid vs UT, UGA or GT. I'll give him solid vs MIZ MSU and excellent vs UL, pedestrian vs SC & GT, horrible vs VU and poor vs UT & UGA
Johnson named the starter before practices even begin. Id say Stoops and Gran agree with me.
Either Drew Barker or Gunnar Hoak are highly capable of directing the offense should SJ face injury or other circumstances.
