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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
Deee you are completely ignorant to what is happening or you agree with the course set by Obama. Since Obama has taken over the middle class taken home is over $5,000.00 less a year. You can use as your argument liberal/democrat talking points but the truth is that we are taking home less because of more taxes. Just can't get past that bottom line.

Obama doesn't control take-home pay my friend, but he does support an increase to the minimum wage which would certainly push things in the right direction. Most of elected representatives in your party do not.

As I said above and which I posted proof from factcheck.org to support, unless you're making over $400K a year your taxes have not increased.

You're confused on the facts.
 
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LOL

Believe us, we've all read your dumbass posts over the years defining yourself as a moderate. However we've also read all you other posts and know that's completely false.

It's false to you becasue you view things through the Tea Party prism, which means anyone that is not a Tea Party type like yourself is a "liberal". To be honest I could care less about labels, you can label me however you wish. What counts is what my positions are which, I'm pretty consistent on. People can draw their own judgments.

I've never understood the constant obsession over labels by you and a few others - really who cares?
 
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Obama doesn't control take-home pay my friend, but he does support an increase to the minimum wage which would certainly push things in the right direction. Most of elected representatives in your party do not.

As I said above and which I posted proof from factcheck.org to support, unless you're making over $400K a year your taxes have not increased.

You're confused on the facts.
You are wrong as usual, less take home pay from the same job tells you you are being taxed more. That has also been fact checked and proven true. Whether hidden (which is the norm for this admin) or tacked on other areas (healthcare) we are paying more taxes since Obama took over. Keep lock stepping to the left agenda everyone here knows you do
 
You are wrong as usual, less take home pay from the same job tells you you are being taxed more. That has also been fact checked and proven true. Whether hidden (which is the norm for this admin) or tacked on other areas (healthcare) we are paying more taxes since Obama took over. Keep lock stepping to the left agenda everyone here knows you do

The Bush tax cuts of 2001 were made permanent by a bill signed into law by this president (except for people making over $400,000/yr). You are not paying one dime more in federal income tax now then you were under Bush. Payroll taxes have not changed either.
A temporary tax cut was put in by Obama as part of the economic recovery package. There were also temporary payroll tax roll backs. I recall when those expired you came on this board complaining that Obama had raised your taxes. I remember explaining this to you back then. You didn't get a tax increase, the temporary roll back just expired. Apparently you can't deal with facts. You just perceive Obama as "tax and spend" so you pretend the facts support you're perception even though it's fiction. You really need to quit ready those anonymous emailso_O

BTW you don't pay taxes for health care - unless you live in Canada or Europe.
 
Anything short of bloody revolution is moot. Democrat/Republican... like arguing about paint color when the house is burning to the ground. Democracy needs an occasional purging. A reset. You have to get at the rot and that cannot be done at the ballot box.
 
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Mike Pence extends the needle exchange he allowed last month. I'll be damned.
 
The Bush tax cuts of 2001 were made permanent by a bill signed into law by this president (except for people making over $400,000/yr). You are not paying one dime more in federal income tax now then you were under Bush. Payroll taxes have not changed either.
A temporary tax cut was put in by Obama as part of the economic recovery package. There were also temporary payroll tax roll backs. I recall when those expired you came on this board complaining that Obama had raised your taxes. I remember explaining this to you back then. You didn't get a tax increase, the temporary roll back just expired. Apparently you can't deal with facts. You just perceive Obama as "tax and spend" so you pretend the facts support you're perception even though it's fiction. You really need to quit ready those anonymous emailso_O

BTW you don't pay taxes for health care - unless you live in Canada or Europe.
Once again, the bottom line tends to bite your bs in the butt. On average Americans are taking home around $5,000.00 less a year now then when he took office.
The Bush tax cuts of 2001 were made permanent by a bill signed into law by this president (except for people making over $400,000/yr). You are not paying one dime more in federal income tax now then you were under Bush. Payroll taxes have not changed either.
A temporary tax cut was put in by Obama as part of the economic recovery package. There were also temporary payroll tax roll backs. I recall when those expired you came on this board complaining that Obama had raised your taxes. I remember explaining this to you back then. You didn't get a tax increase, the temporary roll back just expired. Apparently you can't deal with facts. You just perceive Obama as "tax and spend" so you pretend the facts support you're perception even though it's fiction. You really need to quit ready those anonymous emailso_O

BTW you don't pay taxes for health care - unless you live in Canada or Europe.
It is not anonymous e-mails. The average American take home pay has gone down under Obama. That has been proven.
 
"BTW you don't pay taxes for health care - unless you live in Canada or Europe"

Semantics here. As I have said before and you have missed it and many Americans are in the same boat, healthcare cost have gone up under Obamacare. My wife's company insurance went up around $650.00 more a month. We were using her insurance as the primary insurance and Tricare as the supplemental but now just use Tricare. While Tricare did not go up much, it did go up a little. The taxes in Obamacare affect everyone. Obama is a tax and spend president. His taxes are embedded and non transparent to many who do not look.
 
UCA only survived legal review due to it being classified as a tax yet we have someone here, who has the gall to call himself a moderate and open to voting for the GOP, arguing otherwise. I guess the "cadillac tax" set for 2018 has been secretly cancelled?

His argument and subsequent running away once soundly debunked on the sequestration above is vintage Deee. His "prism" is taking very basic facts and distorting them into a collage of rathole arguments to protect his party.
 
"BTW you don't pay taxes for health care - unless you live in Canada or Europe"

Semantics here. As I have said before and you have missed it and many Americans are in the same boat, healthcare cost have gone up under Obamacare. My wife's company insurance went up around $650.00 more a month. We were using her insurance as the primary insurance and Tricare as the supplemental but now just use Tricare. While Tricare did not go up much, it did go up a little. The taxes in Obamacare affect everyone. Obama is a tax and spend president. His taxes are embedded and non transparent to many who do not look.
Yep, my insurance went up too.
 
Well shit. Here I thought among other tax increases, itemized deductions and personal exemptions started to get cut back under 400k. I guess either Defense once again doesn't know what the hell he's talking about or I'm going to have to amend some tax returns.
 
You guys are an awful read for politics.

1- all govt is tax and spend, kind of how it works!

2- there were tax cuts that were not continued under Obama because they couldn't afford to keep them going, and had they never been in place companies like ResCare wouldnt have been hit so hard from '09-'12. But it's hardly worth arguing as per thousand would get hit for 20 bucks per person.....not much individually but it was huge collectively and helped medicare get closer to maintainable.

3- Stats can be skewed anyway you want them. 5K less per household isn't just because of taxes. Add to that number that less small business is in place though it's finally coming back, and a lot of jobs were lost and people had to accept lessor paying jobs and yes on avg households are taking home less. BUT, those same people are spending more because the lines of credit per household are also up so who really has the problem?

4- I just attended a meeting with a state senator Dan Seum, who was awesome. Really broke things down in a very understandable way. One of the biggest things govt is currently pushing is the min wage deal because it kicks back more revenue to them which they need, and construction that allows more jobs. He doesn't go Ron Paul as to smoke and mirrors but he does think that there will be a drastic slow down compared to what is going on now in construction.

5- understand your not changing anyone's mind for them, so rinse wash repeat ruins this thread.
 
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Once again, the bottom line tends to bite your bs in the butt. On average Americans are taking home around $5,000.00 less a year now then when he took office.

It is not anonymous e-mails. The average American take home pay has gone down under Obama. That has been proven.

False. AS you can see by the chart, household income for the middle quintile and below has essentially been stagnate for the last 5 1/2 decades. The shaded areas are recessions and you can see wages declined slightly at the beginning of the great recession and have remained constant since them (up to 2013 the last published data I could find)

The stagnet nature of household income is a function of globalization, outsourcing and automation not executive policy by any president of either party.



household-incomes-mean-real.gif
 
"BTW you don't pay taxes for health care - unless you live in Canada or Europe"

Semantics here. As I have said before and you have missed it and many Americans are in the same boat, healthcare cost have gone up under Obamacare.

No it's not semantics, you said you taxes went up due to health care which is patently wrong.
Yes the cost of health care insurance has gone up, but that's due to the fact that the cost of health care itself is escalating 3-4 times the inflation rate and insurers have to charge more accordingly.

None the less, the rise in health care AFTER the ACA is no greater than before as seen in the chart below from Forbes Magazine



percentageincreasekff.png
 
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Well shit. Here I thought among other tax increases, itemized deductions and personal exemptions started to get cut back under 400k. I guess either Defense once again doesn't know what the hell he's talking about or I'm going to have to amend some tax returns.

Resorting to profanity and personal attacks is a sure sign of desperation and loss of an argument.

Also your weak response is indicative of your usual dishonesty. While you cite one example of a cut to an allowable deduction, you make no mention of several increases to deduction that have been made law under this administration including:


· Tax Credit of up to $8,000 for First-Time Home buyers and $6,500 for Existing Homeowners

· Increase of Section 179 for business capital expenses increased to $500,000

· American Opportunity Tax Credit, provides a credit of up to $4000 per student per year for four years of college. It now also covers the cost of books

· For families with three or more children, the maximum Earned Income Tax Credit for 2010 rose by $628.50.

· Increase in the Annual Gift Tax Exemption

· Tax credits for installing energy saving equipment

· Alternative Minimum Tax level were increased

Increases to estate tax exemption

All of these resulted in lower tax liabilities for those that took advantage of them.
 
BO's 2016 budget requested 23 new substantial tax increase changes and a $4T spend, up 12-13% from 2014.

Yep, fiscally responsible...Ross Perot and his reform minded followers would be proud.

Also learned today that although the bill architects and SCOTUS called UCA a tax, moderates don't. Still waiting on whether those taxes on plans kick in in 2018 like the bill states....
 
No it's not semantics, you said you taxes went up due to health care which is patently wrong.
Yes the cost of health care insurance has gone up, but that's due to the fact that the cost of health care itself is escalating 3-4 times the inflation rate and insurers have to charge more accordingly.

None the less, the rise in health care AFTER the ACA is no greater than before as seen in the chart below.



percentageincreasekff.png
No it is not wrong. You simply buy into the lies and cooked books that has been going on for years. Tricare did not rise ever for me until Obamacare and the rise in my wife's insurance was well above the amount expected under normal inflation. You go ahead and continue to defend Obama's tax and spend ways. We all know that you agree with this manner of leadership.
 
No it is not wrong. You simply buy into the lies and cooked books that has been going on for years.

I posted information from The Tax Policy Institute, The United States Census Bureau, Factcheck.org and Forbes Magazine among others which you refer to as "cooked books" to dispute all the nonsense you and others have asserted in this thread, and in response you have provided no facts, no links just innuendo and conjecture based on what you have heard on TV or read on agenda driven sites.

Unless you can come up with some facts from a reputable source to support what you are asserting there is no point in continuing.
 
I posted information from The Tax Policy Institute, The United States Census Bureau, Factcheck.org and Forbes Magazine among others which you refer to as "cooked books" to dispute all the nonsense you and others have asserted in this thread, and in response you have provided no facts, no links just innuendo and conjecture based on what you have heard on TV or read on agenda driven sites.

Unless you can come up with some facts from a reputable source to support what you are asserting there is no point in continuing.
Once again let me explain to you about reality. Most of the information you referenced is released from the government to these sites. This admin has controlled what goes out and what stays in and has been the least transparent bunch in the history of this country. Everyone knows why unemployment is where it is today and that is because of lower paying jobs and people no longer in the workforce being counted. (Numbers spun) Healthcare has gone up for most Americans outside of your circles. I have seen it and experience it everyday. What your government tells you is contrary because it paints them in a bad light. With all of the scandals surrounding this administration, it says a lot about you that you still believe or agree with what they are doing.
 
Did anybody catch the contradiction in wall2boogie's argument above? After praising Bush Sr., and trashing the son, he can't believe anyone could possibly vote for "another Bush." In many ways I agree. But then he goes on the suggest the primary reason to vote for Hillary would be the success of her husband's tenure. Boogie, you just proved, vis a vis Bush, that legacy is no predictor of success, then you tout Hillary as Bill's legacy and the reason to vote for her.
Call it what you want. I never praised bush sr. I said I respected him and what he attempted to accomplish. A better way to put it is after bush sr, anyone from that family running for major office such as president, doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. Thank W. For that. if you put W and palin on a ticket together Kim Jong un would have a better shot at being the president. My favorite thing bush ever said was the funniest thing I've ever heard. "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, well your just fooled." Lol it doesn't get any better than that. Bush and Hoover rank as 1a. and 1b. Of all time. Both managed to be part of something "great" the depression, and the recession. Even William Henry Harrison who died after giving his 8000 word acceptance speech was better than those two. The days of the baby boomers and the gop running everything are over. We live in the most liberal county in the world and that will continue to grow. Not only that, thank that group of douschebags called the tea party. They are cut from the same cloth as scientologists. I consider myself more of a libertarian than a liberal. I did love Clinton in office. Millions of others do as well. She also has her own opinions and is not some Obama clone everyone is worried about. This maybe the one and only time a woman will be a serious contender and most likely the last. Like him or not bill was a great president and this would be a chance to see him back in the White House.
 
Call it what you want. I never praised bush sr. I said I respected him and what he attempted to accomplish. A better way to put it is after bush sr, anyone from that family running for major office such as president, doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. Thank W. For that. if you put W and palin on a ticket together Kim Jong un would have a better shot at being the president. My favorite thing bush ever said was the funniest thing I've ever heard. "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, well your just fooled." Lol it doesn't get any better than that. Bush and Hoover rank as 1a. and 1b. Of all time. Both managed to be part of something "great" the depression, and the recession. Even William Henry Harrison who died after giving his 8000 word acceptance speech was better than those two. The days of the baby boomers and the gop running everything are over. We live in the most liberal county in the world and that will continue to grow. Not only that, thank that group of douschebags called the tea party. They are cut from the same cloth as scientologists. I consider myself more of a libertarian than a liberal. I did love Clinton in office. Millions of others do as well. She also has her own opinions and is not some Obama clone everyone is worried about. This maybe the one and only time a woman will be a serious contender and most likely the last. Like him or not bill was a great president and this would be a chance to see him back in the White House.


Nothing Libertarian in this post. This is pure Liberalism and homerism. While the country did good under Bill, he was also very lucky to be Potus when the tech bubble expanded,so the economy was really good. After all we know about the Clintons over the past 30 years, anyone that wants HER to be POTUS has a screw loose. They never tell the truth, lie too easily. She turned $1000.00 into $100,000.00 in 2 weeks in animal futures, seriously? Even Warren Buffett can't do that, or he would. ran a private email server while employed by us, the taxpayer, then deleted emails,that she chose to delete. Rented out rooms in the White House when Bill was POTUS. Not the slightest amount of trustworthyness does she have. If you, or anyone else want her because she would be the first woman POTUS, that is not a good reason to elect a leader. It truly is a shame people like you are allowed to vote, because you vote for all the wrong reasons. I can remember Presidents all the way back to Ike, and the worst one for damage done to the country was LBJ, then Obama, Carter, W.
 
Call it what you want. I never praised bush sr. I said I respected him and what he attempted to accomplish. A better way to put it is after bush sr, anyone from that family running for major office such as president, doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. Thank W. For that. if you put W and palin on a ticket together Kim Jong un would have a better shot at being the president. My favorite thing bush ever said was the funniest thing I've ever heard. "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, well your just fooled." Lol it doesn't get any better than that. Bush and Hoover rank as 1a. and 1b. Of all time. Both managed to be part of something "great" the depression, and the recession. Even William Henry Harrison who died after giving his 8000 word acceptance speech was better than those two. The days of the baby boomers and the gop running everything are over. We live in the most liberal county in the world and that will continue to grow. Not only that, thank that group of douschebags called the tea party. They are cut from the same cloth as scientologists. I consider myself more of a libertarian than a liberal. I did love Clinton in office. Millions of others do as well. She also has her own opinions and is not some Obama clone everyone is worried about. This maybe the one and only time a woman will be a serious contender and most likely the last. Like him or not bill was a great president and this would be a chance to see him back in the White House.
We do not live in the most liberal country in the world.
 
If Bill Clinton was such a great president, why was he basically blacklisted from Gore's campaign? The idea that Clinton was something great is the most revisionist history thing I have ever seen. If he's so great, answer me this:

- Is NAFTA a good thing?
- Do you like what is going on with Russia right now?
- How do you feel about the housing crisis?

All of these things were either done by Clinton or enabled by Clinton's policies? Regarding the economy, Clinton had nothing to do with the tech boom. And don't "well GWB did this" me, because he sucked too.
 
Nothing Libertarian in this post. This is pure Liberalism and homerism. While the country did good under Bill, he was also very lucky to be Potus when the tech bubble expanded,so the economy was really good. After all we know about the Clintons over the past 30 years, anyone that wants HER to be POTUS has a screw loose. They never tell the truth, lie too easily. She turned $1000.00 into $100,000.00 in 2 weeks in animal futures, seriously? Even Warren Buffett can't do that, or he would. ran a private email server while employed by us, the taxpayer, then deleted emails,that she chose to delete. Rented out rooms in the White House when Bill was POTUS. Not the slightest amount of trustworthyness does she have. If you, or anyone else want her because she would be the first woman POTUS, that is not a good reason to elect a leader. It truly is a shame people like you are allowed to vote, because you vote for all the wrong reasons. I can remember Presidents all the way back to Ike, and the worst one for damage done to the country was LBJ, then Obama, Carter, W.
Nothing Libertarian in this post. This is pure Liberalism and homerism. While the country did good under Bill, he was also very lucky to be Potus when the tech bubble expanded,so the economy was really good. After all we know about the Clintons over the past 30 years, anyone that wants HER to be POTUS has a screw loose. They never tell the truth, lie too easily. She turned $1000.00 into $100,000.00 in 2 weeks in animal futures, seriously? Even Warren Buffett can't do that, or he would. ran a private email server while employed by us, the taxpayer, then deleted emails,that she chose to delete. Rented out rooms in the White House when Bill was POTUS. Not the slightest amount of trustworthyness does she have. If you, or anyone else want her because she would be the first woman POTUS, that is not a good reason to elect a leader. It truly is a shame people like you are allowed to vote, because you vote for all the wrong reasons. I can remember Presidents all the way back to Ike, and the worst one for damage done to the country was LBJ, then Obama, Carter, W.

Lol, please tell me your joking about "They never tell the truth, lie too easily." Enlighten me with one politician that has ever told the truth. Honest Abe sure as hell doesn't count. Furthermore, 20 years ago the thought of a black president was blasphemy, same goes for a woman president. I haven't decided who I will vote for yet I'm just stating the facts and assumption is part of your problem. The email garbage is just that. Lbj, was a bad president, Nixon can be mentioned in the same breathe. Dare I bring up saint regan, he had the brilliant idea of Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 allowing 3 million immigrants into the country in exchange for border control, how did that work out? The cocaine trade came with it. It boosted the economy and destroyed it as well. It's a win/win situation. Bravo! It's funny, you mention Hillary rasing money that warren buffet cant is a joke. I'm sure you will be the first to give high fives to the Koch brothers and Sheldon adelson for giving money they didn't earn but inherited when they back Marco Rubio. Maybe if Hillary wins bill will get a chance to rent out rooms in the White House rather than using the oral office. I don't vote for party like most I vote for who will do the best job as commander and chief.
 
If Bill Clinton was such a great president, why was he basically blacklisted from Gore's campaign? The idea that Clinton was something great is the most revisionist history thing I have ever seen. If he's so great, answer me this:

- Is NAFTA a good thing?
- Do you like what is going on with Russia right now?
- How do you feel about the housing crisis?

All of these things were either done by Clinton or enabled by Clinton's policies? Regarding the economy, Clinton had nothing to do with the tech boom. And don't "well GWB did this" me, because he sucked too.
Same reason you didnt see W. Speak for McCain or Romney. They weren't too popular at the time. Had gore ran in 2004 I think he would of won. Kerry was a bad choice.
 
Same reason you didnt see W. Speak for McCain or Romney. They weren't too popular at the time. Had gore ran in 2004 I think he would of won. Kerry was a bad choice.

But everybody agreed that Bush was a terrible president. And they still do. However, Clinton was almost as toxic as Bush (in 2000) was in Gore's election. And the feeling about Hillary was even worse.
 
But everybody agreed that Bush was a terrible president. And they still do. However, Clinton was almost as toxic as Bush (in 2000) was in Gore's election. And the feeling about Hillary was even worse.
But everybody agreed that Bush was a terrible president. And they still do. However, Clinton was almost as toxic as Bush (in 2000) was in Gore's election. And the feeling about Hillary was even worse.
hence the reason gore didn't want Clinton speaking on his behalf
 
Resorting to profanity and personal attacks is a sure sign of desperation and loss of an argument.

Also your weak response is indicative of your usual dishonesty. While you cite one example of a cut to an allowable deduction, you make no mention of several increases to deduction that have been made law under this administration including:


· Tax Credit of up to $8,000 for First-Time Home buyers and $6,500 for Existing Homeowners

· Increase of Section 179 for business capital expenses increased to $500,000

· American Opportunity Tax Credit, provides a credit of up to $4000 per student per year for four years of college. It now also covers the cost of books

· For families with three or more children, the maximum Earned Income Tax Credit for 2010 rose by $628.50.

· Increase in the Annual Gift Tax Exemption

· Tax credits for installing energy saving equipment

· Alternative Minimum Tax level were increased

Increases to estate tax exemption

All of these resulted in lower tax liabilities for those that took advantage of them.

You said if you're not making more than $400k per year, your taxes haven't increased one dime. That's 100% absolutely and unequivocally false.

Obama "made law" a fist time home buyer credit? That's news to me.

Section 179 is now at $25,000 per year.

AOTC is phased out far below $400,000.

EITC only applies to poor people.

Gift tax and AMT you bring up were probably just inflation indexed.

There was no estate tax in 2010. So Obama signing a ~$5 million exclusion into law supports your argument that Obama hasn't increased taxes?
 
^ You know every year there are minor changes to the tax code, some exemptions and deductibles change as tweeks to the tax code occur. That's not what WC was talking about. He thought his tax rate or payroll taxes had been increased which of course is false. From what I could find effective tax rates have been flat for the last several years - that's the broader point. The Bush tax cuts of 2001 were made permanent for everyone except the top bracket.
 
That's a pretty long winded way of saying, "You're right Bill Cosby, I was 100% completely a totally incorrect in my previous assertions."
 
That's a pretty long winded way of saying, "You're right Bill Cosby, I was 100% completely a totally incorrect in my previous assertions."

LOL! In reality neither you nor I know what WC's tax liability is unless you prepared his taxes, but I would bet you dollars to donuts that his tax liability did not increase due to any actions of the current President or Congress during the last 6 years as he thinks. In fact there is probably just as much chance that his tax liability decreased as there is that it increased.
 
Sounds like momentum is finally building to put lethal drone attack programs under the purview of the Pentagon. About time.
 
Call it what you want. I never praised bush sr. I said I respected him and what he attempted to accomplish. A better way to put it is after bush sr, anyone from that family running for major office such as president, doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell. Thank W. For that. if you put W and palin on a ticket together Kim Jong un would have a better shot at being the president. My favorite thing bush ever said was the funniest thing I've ever heard. "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, well your just fooled." Lol it doesn't get any better than that. Bush and Hoover rank as 1a. and 1b. Of all time. Both managed to be part of something "great" the depression, and the recession. Even William Henry Harrison who died after giving his 8000 word acceptance speech was better than those two. The days of the baby boomers and the gop running everything are over. We live in the most liberal county in the world and that will continue to grow. Not only that, thank that group of douschebags called the tea party. They are cut from the same cloth as scientologists. I consider myself more of a libertarian than a liberal. I did love Clinton in office. Millions of others do as well. She also has her own opinions and is not some Obama clone everyone is worried about. This maybe the one and only time a woman will be a serious contender and most likely the last. Like him or not bill was a great president and this would be a chance to see him back in the White House.
 
boogie, you can thank the "douchebag" Tea Partiers for kicking the democrats' azz in successive elections, taking the House first and then the Senate. Make fun of them all you want, but they turned your leaders into impotent followers. There's are reasons Pelosi is reduced to taking potshots from the sidelines and Reid is retiring. The Tea Party, whom I love that you detest, is among those reasons.
 
boogie, you can thank the "douchebag" Tea Partiers for kicking the democrats' azz in successive elections, taking the House first and then the Senate. Make fun of them all you want, but they turned your leaders into impotent followers. There's are reasons Pelosi is reduced to taking potshots from the sidelines and Reid is retiring. The Tea Party, whom I love that you detest, is among those reasons.
LOL get back to me a full fledged member of that cult becomes president.
 
Honest question... If this country was divided into liberals and conservatives with each having their own side, which one would prosper and survive?

I think that is interesting and telling if we want to approach that topic.
 
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