PJ Washington as an NBA prospect

[DerekMcPwn]

Thought I'd try to sneak a Kentucky basketball thread into the Louisville madness.

I think PJ Washington could very well be the best basketball player on the team next year. He does it all: shoots, rebounds, blocks, passes, steals, and can even handle the ball (better than most power forwards, anyway). But, he seems a little caught between positions - at least as far as the NBA is concerned - not really marketed for shooting and handles enough to be a wing/SF, and not tall enough to be a PF. That could affect his draft stock even if he continues to be a terrific Swiss-Army-knife player.

So what's PJ's ticket to the next level? My vision for him in the league is the next Draymond Green, I think that's the sort of game PJ has. Unfortunately, that's a poor analog for rookie salaries, as Green was a second-round pick. Who does Washington's game compare to, and how does he get into the first round?

 

[shaolin style]

At the end of the day, the NBA is about getting buckets. If he can develop his shot, he'll play in the league. The rest of his game will shine. I think he will be an excellent college player because of the traits you mentioned.

 

[KentuckyCat420]

At the end of the day, the NBA is about getting buckets. If he can develop his shot, he'll play in the league. The rest of his game will shine. I think he will be an excellent college player because of the traits you mentioned.

While I'm not disagreeing with you, I think the large majority of the fanbase is not realizing his shot is a lot more developed then he's getting credit for.

He's light years ahead of Vanderbilt and Diallo as far as being a 3 Point shooter and honestly I suspect he'll be our 3rd best shooter behind Knox and Green as far as guys who play major minutes.

 

[Deli owl]

Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't watched much of him. He seems most suited as a PF the way he moves and at 6'8", he's kind of a tweeter for the NBA. He can make it just fine but may not shine as an NBA prospect. Could be fantastic in college though.

 

[Smashcat]

Washington is a decent jump shooter already. He's not tall but he is long, I think most expect him to be a two and done like Jones. I think the best thing about this freshman class is that several of the kids project to return as sophomores. You add one outstanding big man, Bagley, and a 2019 national championship looks like a natural conclusion.

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

At the end of the day, the NBA is about getting buckets. If he can develop his shot, he'll play in the league. The rest of his game will shine. I think he will be an excellent college player because of the traits you mentioned.

Getting buckets is important not arguing that point. IMHO the secret to a long NBA career (if your not a superstar) is being able to develop a single skill to an exceptional level. PJ could develop into a defensive specialist, shot blocker , sharpshooter, passer, rebound guy or just a rim runner etc. Lots of ways to hang around the league IMHO.

The game is about playing to your strengths. Doing what you do well as often as possible while on the court.

Can't wait to see this kid out there with JV and Knox!

 

[JonathanW]

Washington might be my favorite for next year. But I don't think he has the quickness for a NBA 3 or the height for a NBA 4. After a AA year Swanigan is a borderline 1st rnd pick. Leaving MSU early wasn't an option for D.Green. The NBA will view PJ as an undersized 4, and I think because of that we will have him for 2-3 years.

 

[kyups01]

Washington was by far my favorite recruit even before he committed. His measurables are a matchup nightmare given the positions hes capable of playing.

 

[Dablueman]

Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't watched much of him. He seems most suited as a PF the way he moves and at 6'8", he's kind of a tweeter for the NBA. He can make it just fine but may not shine as an NBA prospect. Could be fantastic in college though.

He can play pf at any level. Being 6ft8 vs 6ft9 or 6ft10 is easily overcome by an incredible 7ft3 wingspan.

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

Patterson is also a bit undersized he's carved a nice career for himself by shooting about 40 percent from 3 and doing little things. He knows what he does well and doesn't try to do too much.

The NBA is trending smaller. Teams aren't necessarily looking for a 6'10 rugged PF. Smaller more skilled players are the future.

 

[BleedinBlue85]

I think Washington is aiming to play the 3. He has slimmed down a bunch since high school. While that makes him quicker I just hope it doesn't hurt his ability to carve out space in the post. Losing weight isn't always a good thing just ask Jared sullinger

 

[Dakota25]

I think Washington is going to be the guy next April that we are wondering whether or not he will be back. Knox and Diallo are for sure one and done, and the rest are two year players. I haven't seen any of these guys play so I don't know what to say about them other than that.

 

[Dablueman]

I think Washington is going to be the guy next April that we are wondering whether or not he will be back. Knox and Diallo are for sure one and done, and the rest are two year players. I haven't seen any of these guys play so I don't know what to say about them other than that.

Vanderbilt is projected higher than Knox right now. After the hoop summit ESPN wrote scouts loved his game and projected him at 10 in the draft and said if his shot is as improved as he had shown on the all star circuit he could go top 5. Kid is 6ft9 with pg handles and passing, great motor was ranked in the top 5 til he made the mistake of playing hurt in AAU ball last summer. Of course he wasn't going to duke so he dropped in the rankings. When he was finally healthy in both the hoop summit and Jordan brand game matched Porter step for step in fact his over all stats were better. He shows anything resembling a shot he will be a high lottery pick.

Richards will be lottery as well at 7ft 250 7ft4 wingspan the best standing vertical of bigs at the hoop summit. One of the announcers at the hoop summit said Richards plays defense like he hates you at the time he was guarding Bamba. Only knock on him was his hands and being foul prone. Of course he has only played hoops for four years and he got that label in his 2nd year. Anybody who has seen him throwing down one handed oops at the all Star practices know he has improved vastly with his hands.

Knox is the youngest recruit who focused on Football til a couple of years ago will only get better as well throw in Diallo and If Gabriel improves. We could have 5 first rounders.

 

[_Attack_Reload_]

The league is different than it was when Green was at MSU. Scouts look at guys like PJW. And PJW is going to be a stud. May be a 2 year guy but he's gonna be a fan favorite, and fill up the stat sheet. He can do a bit of everything. I'd say late first RD pick when he goes. I'd say he gives us 9-11pts, 6-8rbs, 1ast, 1blk,

 

[DerekMcPwn]

My not-particularly-groundbreaking take is that he'll need to either rebound better than his height predicts or shoot better than 99% of PFs. If he averages a real double-double, and I think he has that potential, he'll be a lottery pick. If he averages > 40% from 3, he'll be a lottery pick. If he gets close to either, he'll still be a first-rounder. Both are tall orders, but he doesn't have to do both, just one or the other.

What I think is most likely is that he averages about 10 points and 6 rebounds per game, shoots the 3 around 32%, and projects as a second-round pick.

 

[bucsrule8872]

It wouldn't surprise me if Washington left after 1 or stayed 2.

Diallo, Knox, and Vanderbilt won't be back unless something strange happens.

I also expect Richards to leave.

Gabriel and Green along with Washington are the biggest question marks. I figure Gabriel leaves. Cal reportedly told Green he would be OAD. Still, I have a hard time seeing him as a first rounder at 6'0 tall. You have to be really good to get drafted at that size. But the kid might be determined enough to go anyway.

I think the rest are back.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Washington and Killeya-Jones or Gilgeous-Alexander with three superstars from the '18 class as our starting five in 18-19.

 

[Wildcat-in-STL]

I think he can do good things but he's a tweener. Not ideal height for PF and not fast or bouncy enough to be an ideal SF.

 

[GonzoCat90]

I think he's Thaddeus Young. Initially teams will try his as a big, physical wing, then move him to a face up 4.

 

[bradscats]

Will Jon Hood be on of the all-time greats at U.K.?

 

[Wvvrn]

I haven't watched him much but these D Green and PPat comparisons are getting me excited. I don't expect him to be on their level (AA type) but if he can play with their passion and intensity he will surely be a good one.

It's nearly impossible to accurately project NBA potential for a player by watching HS/AAU highlights though.

 

[JonathanW]

Patterson is also a bit undersized he's carved a nice career for himself by shooting about 40 percent from 3 and doing little things. He knows what he does well and doesn't try to do too much.

The NBA is trending smaller. Teams aren't necessarily looking for a 6'10 rugged PF. Smaller more skilled players are the future.

True, partly. They are looking for more skilled players, but they still want the height, to better get your shot off & defend shooters, they want 6'10 Kevin Durant at SF. If you aren't a guaranteed 1st round pick, so basically projected in top 20-24, then you shouldn't be OAD, because a 2nd round pick doesn't have a guaranteed contract.
Swanigan (Purdue) is a 6'7.5 245-lb PF rebounding machine that was Big 10 POY and 1st Team AA, that made almost 45% of his 3's. Yet he is viewed as a "tweener" and a borderline 1st round pick. I can't see the scouts liking PJ more than Swanigan.

I think someone else said Green was told (by Cal) he would be a OAD. That I just don't see! What NBA PG under 6'3 has been taken in the first round in the past 10 years (much less 6'0)? Last year Ulis went #34, Jackson (ND) #45, Paige (UNC) #55. This year Evans (Ok St) & Mason (KU) are projected in the 35-50 range.

 

[Smashcat]

Ben Roberts‏@BenRobertsHL
PJ Washington showing his whole arsenal tonight. Throwing down in the paint, blocking out and rebounding, great vision with his passes.

 

[GonzoCat90]

True, partly. They are looking for more skilled players, but they still want the height, to better get your shot off & defend shooters, they want 6'10 Kevin Durant at SF. If you aren't a guaranteed 1st round pick, so basically projected in top 20-24, then you shouldn't be OAD, because a 2nd round pick doesn't have a guaranteed contract.
Swanigan (Purdue) is a 6'7.5 245-lb PF rebounding machine that was Big 10 POY and 1st Team AA, that made almost 45% of his 3's. Yet he is viewed as a "tweener" and a borderline 1st round pick. I can't see the scouts liking PJ more than Swanigan.

I think someone else said Green was told (by Cal) he would be a OAD. That I just don't see! What NBA PG under 6'3 has been taken in the first round in the past 10 years (much less 6'0)? Last year Ulis went #34, Jackson (ND) #45, Paige (UNC) #55. This year Evans (Ok St) & Mason (KU) are projected in the 35-50 range.

There have been a few, but you're right that it's rare. Shabazz Napier, CJ McCollum, Trey Burke, Shane Larkin, Dennis Schroeder, Damian Lillard, Kemba, DJ Augustin, Bledsoe, and Avery Bradley are some names off the top of my head, but that covers nearly a decade and most of those guys were drafted somewhere in the 20s.

Quade's problem is that if you're going to be 6'0, you better be a dynamic athlete, have incredible length, a ridiculous jumper, or all three. Small guys like Bledsoe and Bradley had crazy length and athleticism, Lillard and McCollum were ridiculous shooters, and Burke and Larkin were/are crazy athletic and good shooters.

Quade isn't really a standout anywhere across the board. I think more accurately Cal gave him the same talk he gave Ulis, about not coming here if he plans to be a 4-year player and that *he* will have failed the player if he's not one and done.

 

[Catzman]

I look at Washington a lot like Poythress coming out of high school. An undersized 4 at 6'7-6'8 who wasn't quite polished enough to be a 3 but due to strength and long arms was able to play the 4 effectively. Poythress, like Washington, was able to knock down an open 3 and used his quickness and length to bother bigger interior players. Poythress is definitely the better athlete of the 2, but Washington has more of the alpha-dog mentality.

Fortunately for Washington, this team is loaded with forwards. In other years where we're loaded with bigs, Washington may have had the opportunity (or been forced) to play the wing and I think that's definitely where his services would be least effective for us. Guys like Diallo, Knox and Vanderbilit are the types destined for the perimeter who would eat his lunch in head to head match ups and thankfully, those guys are on our side, but there are plenty of talented wings still in the NCAA. Washington is 100% a collegiate 4 who will make the occasional 3 and/or the occasional drive to the basket. His bread will be buttered banging inside with that powerful body, carving out space for rebounds, and using his deceptive length to block/alter shots. I think he and Gabriel will be the garbage guys; nothing pretty, but at the end of the day they've scored a dozen points and grabbed a handful of rebounds while the flashy players get in the highlight reels.

As far as best basketball player on our team, I think that title goes to Vanderbilt and I don't even think it's close. He can legit play 4 positions, and maybe 5 depending on who the opposing teams center is. He's every bit of 6'9 with long arms and has mobility and handles like a guard with the body and athleticism of an elite power forward combined with tenacity and motor that are MKG-esque. I know Knox probably has the most NBA potential to be a superstar, and Diallo is obviously a freak, but Vanderbilt is a rare player in a basketball world that covets the unique, tall, multi-faceted forward. While someone mentioned picking a skill and becoming a pro at it to guarantee yourself a long NBA career, Vanderbilt is a guy who could go in any direction with his skills. He could develop into a better shooter, he could develop into a point forward, he could develop into the multi dimensional defender, etc etc. This entire stable of forwards has me hyped, but he might be at the top of the list for me. Sorry to rant.

 

[Smashcat]

Kyle Tucker‏@KyleTucker_SEC 12h12 hours ago
This was Cal's face when I asked how P.J. Washington played tonight. UK coach seems giddy out here. https://www.seccountry.com/kentucky/kentucky-usa-basketball-calipari-live-updates…

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

True, partly. They are looking for more skilled players, but they still want the height, to better get your shot off & defend shooters, they want 6'10 Kevin Durant at SF. If you aren't a guaranteed 1st round pick, so basically projected in top 20-24, then you shouldn't be OAD, because a 2nd round pick doesn't have a guaranteed contract.
Swanigan (Purdue) is a 6'7.5 245-lb PF rebounding machine that was Big 10 POY and 1st Team AA, that made almost 45% of his 3's. Yet he is viewed as a "tweener" and a borderline 1st round pick. I can't see the scouts liking PJ more than Swanigan.

I think someone else said Green was told (by Cal) he would be a OAD. That I just don't see! What NBA PG under 6'3 has been taken in the first round in the past 10 years (much less 6'0)? Last year Ulis went #34, Jackson (ND) #45, Paige (UNC) #55. This year Evans (Ok St) & Mason (KU) are projected in the 35-50 range.

As far as Green goes I haven't seen him listed on any mock drafts for next year.

Every team would love to have a 6 foot 10 SF as skilled as Durant but that's not happening .

Swanigan might end up being the steal of the draft. Plenty of tweeners have gone on to have long successful careers. Glen Davis, Dennis Rodman, Bill Russell and Draymond Green (was once committed to UK before tubby left lol) come to mind. But your right it's up to the team picking to recognize these players and the NBA loves the 6'10 wings.

I have no clue if PJ will be one and done. I was just pointing out that there are many ways to hang around the league. (look at liggins).

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

I look at Washington a lot like Poythress coming out of high school. An undersized 4 at 6'7-6'8 who wasn't quite polished enough to be a 3 but due to strength and long arms was able to play the 4 effectively. Poythress, like Washington, was able to knock down an open 3 and used his quickness and length to bother bigger interior players. Poythress is definitely the better athlete of the 2, but Washington has more of the alpha-dog mentality.

Fortunately for Washington, this team is loaded with forwards. In other years where we're loaded with bigs, Washington may have had the opportunity (or been forced) to play the wing and I think that's definitely where his services would be least effective for us. Guys like Diallo, Knox and Vanderbilit are the types destined for the perimeter who would eat his lunch in head to head match ups and thankfully, those guys are on our side, but there are plenty of talented wings still in the NCAA. Washington is 100% a collegiate 4 who will make the occasional 3 and/or the occasional drive to the basket. His bread will be buttered banging inside with that powerful body, carving out space for rebounds, and using his deceptive length to block/alter shots. I think he and Gabriel will be the garbage guys; nothing pretty, but at the end of the day they've scored a dozen points and grabbed a handful of rebounds while the flashy players get in the highlight reels.

As far as best basketball player on our team, I think that title goes to Vanderbilt and I don't even think it's close. He can legit play 4 positions, and maybe 5 depending on who the opposing teams center is. He's every bit of 6'9 with long arms and has mobility and handles like a guard with the body and athleticism of an elite power forward combined with tenacity and motor that are MKG-esque. I know Knox probably has the most NBA potential to be a superstar, and Diallo is obviously a freak, but Vanderbilt is a rare player in a basketball world that covets the unique, tall, multi-faceted forward. While someone mentioned picking a skill and becoming a pro at it to guarantee yourself a long NBA career, Vanderbilt is a guy who could go in any direction with his skills. He could develop into a better shooter, he could develop into a point forward, he could develop into the multi dimensional defender, etc etc. This entire stable of forwards has me hyped, but he might be at the top of the list for me. Sorry to rant.

Agreed about JV. Developing all of his skills would put him into the star or superstar category for sure. He definitely has the potential to be special. I'm hyped too and I can't wait to see all these athletic forwards together!

Also super happy to see POY hitting his stride!

 

[Smashcat]

Plenty of tweeners have gone on to have long successful careers. Glen Davis, Dennis Rodman, Bill Russell and Draymond Green (was once committed to UK before tubby left lol) come to mind.

Also Carlos Boozer and Adonis Haslem.

 

[Adolph B. Calipari]

A few tweeners that struggled to hang around the league come to mind as well. Ellis Miles, Samuardo Samuels and Derrick Character had a rough go at it.

 

[JonathanW]

I agree, I think Swanigan will be the steal of the draft. But he still might not go in the 1st round. To be OAD, you should be very confident that you are a first round pick, if not top 20. As consensus 1st team AA, Swanigan had nothing more he could show/prove at the college level (unless he was going to grow 2"). His draft stock wasn't going any higher (much like Ulis last year).

 

[JonathanW]

There have been a few, but you're right that it's rare. Shabazz Napier, CJ McCollum, Trey Burke, Shane Larkin, Dennis Schroeder, Damian Lillard, Kemba, DJ Augustin, Bledsoe, and Avery Bradley are some names off the top of my head, but that covers nearly a decade and most of those guys were drafted somewhere in the 20s.

Quade's problem is that if you're going to be 6'0, you better be a dynamic athlete, have incredible length, a ridiculous jumper, or all three. Small guys like Bledsoe and Bradley had crazy length and athleticism, Lillard and McCollum were ridiculous shooters, and Burke and Larkin were/are crazy athletic and good shooters.

Quade isn't really a standout anywhere across the board. I think more accurately Cal gave him the same talk he gave Ulis, about not coming here if he plans to be a 4-year player and that *he* will have failed the player if he's not one and done.

You gave a longer list than I thought there was. But looking at them 1 by 1:
- Napier was a SR, and went #24 in 2014, as a scoring PG
- McCollum was a SR, and went #10 in 2013, but was also listed at 6'2.25 as a scoring PG
- Burke was a SOPH, and went #9 in 2013, as a scoring PG
- Larkin was a SOPH, and went #18 in 2013, as a scoring PG
- Schroeder was a foreign player, & went #17 in 2013, so class is not applicable
- Lilard was a SR, and went #6 in 2012, as a scoring PG
- Walker was a JR, and went #9 in 2011, as a strong scoring PG
- Augustin was a SOPH, and went #9 in 2008, as a scoring PG
- Bledsoe was a FR, and went #18 in 2010, as a strong scoring PG
- Bradley was a FR, and went #19 in 2010, & was listed at 6'2

Bledose & Bradley were the only OAD, and they were all score-first PGs, not pass-first (like Green is).

I'm ok w/ as you described "the Ulis talk". Set your bar high. But he will need to get stronger and/or become a scorer (like Ulis did) to get drafted at 6'0.

 

[Smashcat]

Sweet

 

[GonzoCat90]

You gave a longer list than I thought there was. But looking at them 1 by 1:
- Napier was a SR, and went #24 in 2014, as a scoring PG
- McCollum was a SR, and went #10 in 2013, but was also listed at 6'2.25 as a scoring PG
- Burke was a SOPH, and went #9 in 2013, as a scoring PG
- Larkin was a SOPH, and went #18 in 2013, as a scoring PG
- Schroeder was a foreign player, & went #17 in 2013, so class is not applicable
- Lilard was a SR, and went #6 in 2012, as a scoring PG
- Walker was a JR, and went #9 in 2011, as a strong scoring PG
- Augustin was a SOPH, and went #9 in 2008, as a scoring PG
- Bledsoe was a FR, and went #18 in 2010, as a strong scoring PG
- Bradley was a FR, and went #19 in 2010, & was listed at 6'2

Bledose & Bradley were the only OAD, and they were all score-first PGs, not pass-first (like Green is).

I'm ok w/ as you described "the Ulis talk". Set your bar high. But he will need to get stronger and/or become a scorer (like Ulis did) to get drafted at 6'0.

I think he'll definitely be drafted, the only variables are when and how high. I think he can be a late first round pick after his sophomore season, as a best case realistic scenario. I don't see him having the physical gifts to get much higher than that, unless he's just Chris Paul-like.

Either way, odds are strongly against him being OAD, and I think both he and Cal know that realistically, although we know some kids are just determined to make the leap regardless of draft stock. But if I had to bet, Cal is planning on having Quade for two years.

 

[Crankdatmustard]

I think he will mirror Patterson his junior season under Cal.