OT: Deadspin Article on Zion
- Thread starter HICATFAN
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I don’t disagree but the tone on this board is below even that standard, like there’s no chance they’ll be good. Of the years Duke did underachieve several had a single star like Parker or the kid from St Louis Jason ?. They have the top three recruits this year, they’ve never had that team makeup. So there’s no past basis to say this will be a rerun. I hope they fail and maybe they will but the certainty on this board is misguided.
I think they'll be good. It's almost impossible to not be good with the top 3 recruits. However, they have zero roster balance. I think that's what will keep them from being great.
When Duke had Parker, they also had Rodney Hood. When they had Tatum, they also had Kennard, Allen, Frank Jackson, Jefferson, etc.
Both teams with a lot of experience as well.
Duke has been loaded with talent all 14 of those years.
Great and valid point. His lack of size is one thing if he knew how to overcome it. He's been playing a perimeter 3 his whole life just out athleting people.
He has no post up. He doesn't have adequate handles. And doesn't have a staff with any track record of development at all. What you see on day one is where he will be at seasons end.
You're looking at an explosive athlete that's playing the wrong sport.
UK had players I guarantee could dunk from the free throw line. Wcs and Kevin Knox. Probably Alex poythress. Probably more.
Difference is they didn't spend all day practicing for an imaginary dunk competition for YouTube.
The most impressive thing about zions athleticism is the size
Difference is they didn't spend all day practicing for an imaginary dunk competition for YouTube.
The most impressive thing about zions athleticism is the size
What everyone is forgetting on this discussion is that the NCAA refs won't allow bully ball players. The physicality is minimized in the NCAA due to how they call the games. Now he did probably go to the right school as far as getting the benefit of the doubt when it comes to plays. But let's not assume hes going to get the nba whistle and be able to bulldoze people with no calls. He's a prime example of a play who will thrive in the NBA but not in the NCAA.
![[banana]](https://ct.yimg.com/mr/uploads/891/1682178.gif "banana [banana]")
I for one never stated Ole Zion wasn't going to be very good. Nor did I state duke wouldn't be very good.
I have stated I am not worried at all that UK doesn't have an answer for any of duke's players on a one on one basis. Win or lose, UK will not need a double-team.
UK "needing" a double team on any duke player is a ferry tale.
Just reading on this site though UK may be able to play off a couple duke players which will allow more aggressive pressure on duke's best three players which will in turn assist in nullifying any great play those three may have during the game.
None of the backup players you listed were of the caliber of Dukes players this year, there is a significant difference between elite players and good ones.
They sure as hell are when you add the experience factor. We’re talking All-Americans and 1st Rounders.
Fine- let’s go ALL the way back to last year.
duke seems to have three great players, a good one and the rest unless I am mistaken?
You were comparing freshman classes and then shifted gears to experience when you realized you couldn’t justify the players you listed as being of equal talent. Nobody has gotten the top three players and Duke never has but we are supposed to believe their other classes with Like touching Kennard is the same thing? So let’s go back to NEVER for a class like this but hey it’s just like last year.
I was comparing teams.
As I said, I have no clue why Duke always gets the benefit of the doubt.
He was definitely good in HS, I'm not sure how a shaky handle, poor shot, and not really getting back on D and just going for steals translates to the college game though. Especially when his #1 asset was his physical dominance over HS kids which will be greatly minimized in college compared to HS.
In fairness most top high level prospects are physically dominant compared to HS competition. Maybe not as much as Zion but he will also still by physically dominant compared to a lot of college competition.
I agree we will have to see how he adjust his play style and if his skills develop. Overall I think his handle as well as passing/vision is a little underrated.
We'll see. By all accounts he's a good dude so I hope it works out for him besides losing every game in college.
BTW, weren't you the one who told me Bagley was a good defender after I said he didn't play a lick of D in HS?
Oh yea, I was wrong on that. He had and still has the tools, his spacial awareness was shockingly bad in college.
No it is the truth. I’m just trying to help you by accepting it now. Another greatest team ever gonna lose 10 games in Durham
Very true. They could win it all. That said, I find they have a number of major question marks:
* Does Bolden take the crucial step forward in development? If not, Zion and DeLaurier make more appearances on the low block that the Duke staff might prefer.
* Does K's system successfully allow for three guys (their big three) who would traditionally play the 4 spot for K, suddenly to be out on the perimeter simultaneously?
* Does Duke find more consistent perimeter threats besides O'Connell?
* How does Jones translate to the college level as a point guard? We know he's a decent scorer, but how does he handle three mega alphas who will want the ball?
* Duke's bench is a question mark. Outside of O'Connell, who can provide a consistent threat? It's very telling K had to convince Baker, a moderate talent, to reclassify.
I find that while they have the talent, teams facing multiple serious question marks like Duke have an uphill struggle when it comes to advancing over six games.
Gold star dude. Believe what you want. In your opinion I imagine rj is also garbage,
Randle was the #1 option for the '14 team. Zion will be the third option for Duke. That alone tells he'll like be in the 12 to 14 ppg range with 6 to 8 rebounds/game.
Barrett will score about 20 a game. Reddish at 17 to 20/game. Best one-two punch in the nation that will be dynamic if they hit perimeter shots.
That said, I continue to contest that Duke's 4 through 6 rotational guys will be the key for them. If those guys (Jones, Bolden, O'Connell) are legit this year in their roles - particularly with Jones/O'Connell hitting perimeter shots - Duke could win it all. If not, teams will pack it in and Duke will see a large number of horrific shooting nights.
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R.J. could be a first-team All-American and Duke could still struggle. The question marks don't pertain to him and Reddish. Those two are the best players in college, and will prove to be among the most difficult to defend if the jumpers are consistently falling.
The question marks revolve around expectations of a shooter in O'Connell, and whether he's up for a much larger rotational role; the development of an often sluggish Bolden (a big "if" that Duke fans I hear from are honestly worried about) and the development of Jones.
If even one of those three elements doesn't come to full bloom for you guys, it's a major problem for Duke due to lack of depth and personnel options.
I think you guys have legit NBA players in your top 3, but that doesn't always translate to college success. The construction of your roster is strange and awkward. It will need some backline guys to step up big time for Duke to win it all. All possible, of course, but let's not act like it's a given. You guys have massive question marks at this point.
uK fans must be pretty pathetic to think I like duke. Zion has a HIGH ceiling. Whether you agree with my assessment or not, I don’t give a damn. I’m not salty about him picking duke, love our class this year. IMO Zion is a stud still. Now go **** yourself
Great response. You addressed none of my points, regardless of who you cheer for.
Do you lack the capability?
No he’s not garbage. He is just gonna have to share the floor with two other of the same player.
Duke will win 30+ games this year. The lack of depth, however, is a major issue. Foul trouble, injuries, or anyone of the 4 through 6 guys in your rotation failing to take the step forward will hurt.
Maybe all those question marks are answered in the positive though and O'Connell, Jones, Bolden, and JL all play to their ceiling this year while Zion and Barrett shoot the ball well and you guys cut the nets down in April
It could happen, but the question marks still exist right now and shouldn't be downplayed.
I’m smart enough to realize when other people are joking.
He makes up for the height with explosion. He will be easier to guard from a stand still but the problem will be when he faces up. He has better handles than Randle (due to being a guard as a freshman and sophomore) and his midrange is actually passable which should be better with practice before the season starts but likely still won’t be a major weapon. He also rebounds very very well outside of his area.
I have zero doubt he will be as or more effectively be than Randle due to his face up, handles, quickness and touch. NBA may be another story but college shouldn’t be much of a issue. He’s better than some undersized bigs who aren’t as explosive nor have the handles and quickness he has (Tenn bigs, Bonzi Colson). You are also forgetting there are no Rudy Goberts in college on any team and those who do block shots block about 2 a game.
Pretty much people who want him to be average are all people who are fans of the teams he didn’t go to, the bias is obvious. In reality you can see how PJ scored vs bigs last week at 6’7 although with longer arms and envision Zion with a couple inches shorter Arms but just as aggressive, more explosive and bigger and see what Zion will look like
I have zero doubt he will be as or more effectively be than Randle due to his face up, handles, quickness and touch. NBA may be another story but college shouldn’t be much of a issue. He’s better than some undersized bigs who aren’t as explosive nor have the handles and quickness he has (Tenn bigs, Bonzi Colson). You are also forgetting there are no Rudy Goberts in college on any team and those who do block shots block about 2 a game.
Pretty much people who want him to be average are all people who are fans of the teams he didn’t go to, the bias is obvious. In reality you can see how PJ scored vs bigs last week at 6’7 although with longer arms and envision Zion with a couple inches shorter Arms but just as aggressive, more explosive and bigger and see what Zion will look like
