Love me some cornbread and milk...although I don't have it in the buttermilk that my parents preferred
Oscar at the combine
- Thread starter Dontworryboutit23
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He has even went further saying that he is ONLY a PF. Then Cal has spouted that Ugo will be one of the BEST Centers in the country just so Badshaw knows that he will be a 4 AND even if Oscar doesn’t return, he’s already got an out for not bringing anyone else in at EITHER spot.
Uh, that last statement can be nothing BUT FALSE.
We Have to bring in at least 1 someone, probably 2 someones at the 4 & 5 spots. I don't see Onyenso and Bradshaw (or really any 2 players EVER) going IRONMAN and playing all 40 minutes EVERY GAME.
Oh, I MOST DEFINITELY agree!!
But Cal is ALWAYS preparing everyone for the bare minimum with his blowing up players that may be forced into a bigger role. I am hopeful that Johnson is already wrapped up to play the 4 and we get Reeves and another Big, but with Cal, NOTHING is certain.
I know it is a big IF, but IF Oscar comes back we are loaded. Oscar and Oyenso at the 5 is as good as anyone in the country. Bradshaw should/could be a top 4 in the country. Wagner the top 1, Edwards a top 3. Reeves/Dillingham/Shepherd the 2. Add the Johnson transfer for depth and defense.
No matter how things go, I doubt UK has the roster pieces to be a Top 10 team. But without Reeves and Tshiebwe – or better upperclassmen at those spots – I think it could be ugly.
To be a top 2 or 3 team next season, I think UK would, at a minimum, have to have better starting perimeter shooting from the forward spots, and probably better offense generally from the forwards than I believe they will get from the freshmen versions of Edwards and Bradshaw.
I’m actually afraid that Bradshaw starting at the PF is basically spotting most good opponents about 8 points before the game begins. I think Edwards will be “ok” at SF next season if his driving ability, motor and offensive rebounding are good. But the weak perimeter shooting from the SF spot again will hurt the overall product and put too much pressure on Reeves to be “on” all the time (which is not reasonable to expect).
Bradshaw will not be one of the top 50 PF’s in college next year. He will be a great long term draft prospect, but that’s it.
If Oscar is indeed gone and UK adds no one beyond the SDSU kid, we are in trouble. But, with Calipari's gawd-awful offense, you knew that already.
I'm an unabashed fan of what Oscar brings night in and night out at the college level. I'm not being critical of Oscar, but those combine figures being attributed to Oscar generally aren't the kind of numbers that get a 6-8 guy drafted in the first round. Maybe I'm wrong.
Cal won't do it, and he never intended to in 2014-15. He was just playing around with the roster so that he could wittle it down to his favorite 7-8 guys, and that's exactly what he did. Stuck with guys in the Wisconsin game who weren't getting it done, despite the fact that he had answers on the bench. I resent him for that. No other coach in America, the decent ones at least, finishes the way he consistently does, with the talent that UK consistently got from 2009-2017.
Most aren’t the shooting is a surprise though, 12/25 for a guy who never made one 3 in college is good
Hey I don't do buttermilk either. My dad does it both ways. Regular 2% will do just fine. Hell 1% will be fine. But any % percentage of Buttermilk and Im out 😂.
I said all year that I thought Oscar has good form on his jumper out to 18', and no reason he couldn't extend that out to 3pt range (like PPat did). There been lots of guys who weren't 3pt shooters in college but became pretty decent ones in the NBA.
And 12 for 25 ain't bad (48%). Even if you go with the assumption someone above said (to cut that in half since unguarded, for a game %), 24% now, which you would assume would improve over time ain't bad from your PF (he not a C due to not a shot blocker). Especially when he has an ELITE skill (rebounding).
And to those who say you can't play in the NBA now without being a 3pt shooter. There are 2 guys projected to be in the top 4 picks, 3 of the top 7 picks who made only 24-27% of their G-League 3's (Scoot Henderson, & the Thompson twins), and they are Guards, who you expect MORE 3pt shooting from. And except for Brandon Miller, Wallace (who was ok but didn't light it up at 35%) was the best 3pt shooter of the projected top 10 picks I saw.
Will Oscar be a lottery pick? No!!!
First round pick? Probably not, but possible
Second round pick? I'm pretty sure, yes.
And 12 for 25 ain't bad (48%). Even if you go with the assumption someone above said (to cut that in half since unguarded, for a game %), 24% now, which you would assume would improve over time ain't bad from your PF (he not a C due to not a shot blocker). Especially when he has an ELITE skill (rebounding).
And to those who say you can't play in the NBA now without being a 3pt shooter. There are 2 guys projected to be in the top 4 picks, 3 of the top 7 picks who made only 24-27% of their G-League 3's (Scoot Henderson, & the Thompson twins), and they are Guards, who you expect MORE 3pt shooting from. And except for Brandon Miller, Wallace (who was ok but didn't light it up at 35%) was the best 3pt shooter of the projected top 10 picks I saw.
Will Oscar be a lottery pick? No!!!
First round pick? Probably not, but possible
Second round pick? I'm pretty sure, yes.
You aren't drafting Oscar because of his 3pt shooting. You are drafting Oscar because of his ELITE (once in a generation) rebounding skill.
As I just said in my last post, there are guys projected in the top 10, top 5 picks who are not good 3pt shooters, playing positions that you expect better 3pt shooting from. But like Oscar, they have other skills that are Elite, that make them lottery picks. So no reason Oscar can't be drafted.
Which brings the question more into focus: If Oscar is likely going to be a 2nd round pick who's put on a two-way contract, does Oscar return to UK for one last season where the money should be better and where he will have a full season to work on and display his expanded perimeter game? I don't see how anyone on next season's roster keeps Oscar out of the starting lineup should he decide to return to UK.
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Oscar has generational rebounding talent at the college level. But so did Pete Padgett, Angel Delgado, Shawn Long and James Thompson. I'm a fan of Oscar, but I don't see his college rebounding success translating to the NBA. I'm not being critical of Oscar, I just don't see any Willis Reed or Wes Unseld in him. Is Oscar maybe the next Kenneth Faried? I sort of doubt that comparison, but maybe I'm wrong.
It puts coming back to UK in play. But the NBA is his (& every basketball players) ultimate goal. Like it or not, as a player gets older the NBA values him less. Look at "tripper" (Grayson Allen), every year from his FR to SR year his draft stock dropped even though he proved to be a consistent scorer. I think the NBA teams like the mystery, because they think maybe he is a diamond in the rough and just needs developing. But after 3 or 4 (or 5) years in college they start to think he's developed as much as he ever will.
And honestly, if Cal did not let him try to show any perimeter game this year, he won't let him next year either. Recall Cousins and KAT had an outside 3pt shot, and Cal didn't let him take 1. Skal had a perimeter game, and Cal tried to limit that. Sarr too.
If Oscar were to return. I would like to see him in a lessor role. Maybe not a lot less minutes (maybe 2-3 less per game), but not be the focus of the offense. Not even the 2nd option. But also the more 3's he shoots, which means standing out past the 3pt line, the fewer offensive rebounds he will get (which is is main value adder). I'd like to see Onyenso at least 15mpg blocking shots, protecting the rim. Even if that means Oscar plays 5min at the PF spot.
I'm not taking shots at you and I'm going to quit posting in this vine because I don't want to hijack the thread, but I've never understood this line of argument. Oscar is a two-time All American and a national player of the year. Oscar is only 6'-8" with something close to average Power 5 athleticism, but has been dominant at the college level primarily because he has an internal drive that very few possess. Oscar just wants it more than pretty much everyone else on the court. Super, super competitive.
Last season:
Reeves had 404 FGA and made 41.6%
Oscar had 348 FGA and made 56%
Toppin had 341 FGA and made 46%
Wallace had 312 FGA and made 45%
Oscar doesn't bring the ball up the court nor is he a Magic Johnson-type ball dominant forward who initiates the offense out front. Oscar only gets the ball when a teammate throws it to him when he's made himself open [and converts it at a 56% clip] or when Oscar grabs the ball off the glass. So how do you convince a competitor like that to dial down his energy and intensity in the paint and on the boards so that he has an even lessor role on the offensive end of the court? Tell him to quit making himself open in and near the paint? Tell him to quit being so selfish by grabbing so many rebounds?
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Those guys you mentioned were not "generational rebounding talents". They were good, very good rebounders, in the 10-12/gm range, a notch below Oscar (& a few others). But also more importantly, most of them were so good at rebounding because they played at Mid-Majors playing mostly vs other Mid-Majors.
In the modern era, here is a list of the nation's leading rebounders who played in a P6 league:
Oscar 23 (13.7)
Oscar 22 (15.2)
Delgado 17 (SH, 13.1)
Griffen 09 (Okl, 14.4)
Beasley 08 (KSU, 12.4)
Duncan 97 (WF, 14.7)
Shaq 91 (LSU, 14.7)
Lane 87 (Pitt, 13.5)
L.Thompson 82 (Texas, 13.5)
Note only 1 repeat guy in that list. Also his best rebounding season was better than any of the other guys. And even his 2nd best was better than all but Griffen, Duncan & Shaq.
I'm not saying Oscar will be Wes Unseld. But he can be a contributing player like Millsap, Farried. He has a better chance at doing that than an NBA team using up a 2nd round pick on a dime-a-dozen 6'5 39% 3pt shooter or a 6'9 athletic freak that doesn't have much skill.
Jones said the other day something to the effect it would not make sense for Oscar to return given his situation. It seemed centered around NIL/visa but maybe there’s more to his comments. Vecenie did not have him drafted in his mock he released last night. He had Sanogo going one of the last few picks which is notable because obviously they would be competing against each other and I recall Vecenie tweeting tourney time he thought Sanogo was decidedly better than Oscar. Oscar going undrafted is a very real possibility if he stays in but there’s always been this expectation he leaves. Will be interesting.
I don't want him to dial down his energy, that is what makes him good. But we too often would throw it in to him too quickly, without giving other options a chance. And once it went it to him, it rarely came back out to an open guy. If he never looked for a shot he would still get 3-4 baskets on offensive boards, and a couple more on FTs.
And if he kicks it out to open guys more, and if they then make shots, he will find defenses collapsing on him less, so he might become even more efficient on his shots. And some of the time we tried to get him the ball, he wasn't open, but we would try to force it in anyway, sometimes causing TOs.
If Oscar, or anyone good enough to be on the court, is OPEN in a spot they can make shots, then I want that person to get the ball. But how many of Oscars shots were with 2-3 guys defending him? A lot. Just shoot it when 1 guy guarding you, maybe you take 2-4 less shots a game, but make 65% instead of 55%.
You have 3 players listed at the top of their position that has never played a single second of college basketball 😂.
Yeah, he is crazily optimistic.
I'd be thrilled if Bradshaw was a top PF/4 in the SEC. Same for Onyenso, and Wagner. Edwards I think could be the top 3 in the SEC, and has a chance to be say one of the top 5 or so SF/3 in the country.
I don't think Oscar would be able to rebound at the NBA level anywhere near like he has been at the college level. The size and athleticsm at the NBA level, is so much better.
And I think I've said that he won't be Unseld, or Rodman, or Ben Wallace out there. But he can be Faried or Milsap. He gets rebounds despite his lack of length and athleticism, simply because he wants the ball more than the other guy and he plays smart (when it comes to rebounding). And I can appreciate that last bit because at 6'0 (or just under) and almost no vertical, I could rebound simply by positioning, and moving after the ball is shot (when lots of guys just freeze), going to the weakside spot. I can see Oscar playing 15-20mpg for a team, giving them 6 pts and 8 boards a game.
Size has nothing to do with it...he has similar size to Draymond Green. What really hampers Oscar is his lack of athleticism...and that can't be fixed by coaching. If he gets a commitment from any team in the draft, he needs to go.
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